I remember the Amonkhet Masterpieces reception on this forum was primarily that we were tired of the Masterpieces reprint method and its happening for consecutive sets drained away its impact. The Amonkhet Masterpieces having an unclear, if any, overarching theme and being to the unreadable side didn't help.
I was in the 'didn't like the Amonkhet Masterpieces' camp for all of those reasons. Strixhaven's masterpiece method is quite a bit different though in respect to every pack having one, and they having their own sperate rarities not related to the rest of the pack. It's basically like 'The List' from set boosters but much more available to alleviate skyrocketing singles prices and help with standard in-print set's EV.
It's kind of amazing that after reading through 2 pages of this topic, it's almost unanimously positive reception to the previews. That pretty much never happens for any magic product on this forum, so great job Wizards on this one!
I love the commands, and I hope that means we get a new cycle of charms and guildmages too.
Ingenious method of reprinting cards at a steady clip in a standard set without making them standard legal. Should provide a very helpful reprint method in the future both to help with much needed reprints and also to help boost the value of standard in-print sets, both of which have been issues of late.
I notice that it’s probably the first time in history almost everybody is positive but I think part if it is it’s not a Harry Potter thing it’s Basicly wizards doing are real world everyday subjects in schools/colleges rather than typical magic schools
second this is the first set since Eventide it’s a enemy color focus set.
And I’m so glad the command cycle is complete. but I’m not assumed that orzhov and golgari are sorceries rather than instants like the other 7
and how they doing masterpieces probably from here on out, oh yes I think they cracked it on being able to print the absurd power cards in standard sets without making them legal in standard/modern and for a bonus making them historic legal too (except for tutor and swords though)
These mystical archive cards are going to be quite cheap if you’re guaranteed to get one per pack, so I’m guessing that only a couple of them are going to be expensive chase cards while the rest will all be generic good cards that have already been reprinted into oblivion (like Swords to Plowshares).
But since they’ll be available in all supported languages now, I’m willing to bet that Russian foil versions will give people an extra premium version to chase.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Yeah if the "Masterpieces" are one per pack, they aren't really masterpieces. Just the Showcase frame on some random cards. It'll still bring down singles because of people chasing though. Standard sets are basically worthless to open in paper it seems and it's a conscious effort. While great for those playing I guess, value is a part of a Collectible Card game though and if there is No value it hurts
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Resigned up after getting lost in the Twitch/MTGS whatever crossover
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
Why not have just abbreviated 'converted mana cost' as CMC?
Why the need for an entirely new term—why not just 'mana cost' (target card with a mana cost 2 or less)?
When a development team even suggests making gross, unnecessary changes like this to cater to them being worn down—it's time for them to go.
Or at least it's time for them to find a new job to handle at the company.
Yea cards get so wordy and mechanical complexity creep is invasive to the game.
They want to cut down some words, so they can slam even more text on a card without shrinking the text font itself (they do that sometimes for some languages or if they have too many card types and creature types, then the text gets small and almost unreadable).
Why not have just abbreviated 'converted mana cost' as CMC?
Why the need for an entirely new term—why not just 'mana cost' (target card with a mana cost 2 or less)?
When a development team even suggests making gross, unnecessary changes like this to cater to them being worn down—it's time for them to go.
Or at least it's time for them to find a new job to handle at the company.
Converted Mana Cost had the dubious honor of being longer and less intuitive than its replacement. Imagine you've never played Magic before and you see the phrase. You know what a mana cost is, but what are you converting it to? Do you have to pay the mana cost again? Mana Value is much easier to guess what it is. After all, we're all seeing it for the first time and we got it instantly. Not a single person in the thread was confused. Are you really confident that the same would happen if we went from Mana Value to Converted Mana Cost?
Please, mill me. Mill my important cards. Mill my lands. Mill it all. Because I will still deal 20 damage before you can mill 45 cards most every time.
Yeah if the "Masterpieces" are one per pack, they aren't really masterpieces. Just the Showcase frame on some random cards. It'll still bring down singles because of people chasing though. Standard sets are basically worthless to open in paper it seems and it's a conscious effort. While great for those playing I guess, value is a part of a Collectible Card game though and if there is No value it hurts
I still think it's a cool idea though. Masterpieces were a bit greedy imo of Wizards, and this feels more wholesome and while being readily available, I am sure there will still be some really good ones that people will love and pay money for.
Ingenious method of reprinting cards at a steady clip in a standard set without making them standard legal. Should provide a very helpful reprint method in the future both to help with much needed reprints and also to help boost the value of standard in-print sets, both of which have been issues of late.
I remember the Amonkhet Masterpieces reception on this forum was primarily that we were tired of the Masterpieces reprint method and its happening for consecutive sets drained away its impact. The Amonkhet Masterpieces having an unclear, if any, overarching theme and being to the unreadable side didn't help.
I think the Amonkhet Masterpiece frame was a bit more "out there" at the time and was harder to read, so that didn't help. Having these guaranteed one per booster box is nice too, so its not so much of a crapshoot to get one (but with 81 of there will only be about 30% more in circulation as any individual masterpiece)
so.... I'm really curious on how will the masterpieces work with Arena....
I mean, they will be a very integral part of Strixhaven limited, so they have to be in somehow.
the question that remains is: Will they become historic legal? because having stuff like Demonic Tutor and Swords to Plowshares and likely Brainstorm, Lightning Bolt, Counterspell and other stuff at this level would VASTLY change the format.
It's just another case of making special cards not special anymore now with "masterpieces" in every pack. Foils are meaningless. Showcase are basically meaningless, extended frame is meaningless, even boxtopper foil style or alternate alt is basically meaningless because collector packs. Too many things being special is actually nothing being special. Sad really.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Resigned up after getting lost in the Twitch/MTGS whatever crossover
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
Why not have just abbreviated 'converted mana cost' as CMC?
Why the need for an entirely new term—why not just 'mana cost' (target card with a mana cost 2 or less)?
When a development team even suggests making gross, unnecessary changes like this to cater to them being worn down—it's time for them to go.
Or at least it's time for them to find a new job to handle at the company.
Converted Mana Cost had the dubious honor of being longer and less intuitive than its replacement. Imagine you've never played Magic before and you see the phrase. You know what a mana cost is, but what are you converting it to? Do you have to pay the mana cost again? Mana Value is much easier to guess what it is. After all, we're all seeing it for the first time and we got it instantly. Not a single person in the thread was confused. Are you really confident that the same would happen if we went from Mana Value to Converted Mana Cost?
If I recall, when I was new to the game, seeing the term 'converted mana cost' was pretty coherent that it was referencing something specific about a mana cost total.
Using this experience as a reference, if I had just seen the term 'mana cost x', I think that would have been pretty self-evident too.
Changing the term entirely was totally unnecessary and in very bad taste.
'Converted mana cost' is just way too many letters for my tastes, so I'm totally OK with the changing the term, but I think they could have done better than 'mana value'. In my custom sets I've adopted the term 'mana sum', which is even shorter and IMO clearer. Maybe 'value' casuses fewer translations issues or something.
The shuffle change I really don't see the point of. As with the 'any target' template it seems like sacrificing clarity for the sake of brevity, which I don't feel can ever be worth it.
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Thou shalt not have others of the same Legendary before me Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face Thou shalt not change rules in vain Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities Thou shalt not kill mana burn Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards All must be one
'Converted mana cost' is just way too many letters for my tastes, so I'm totally OK with the changing the term, but I think they could have done better than 'mana value'. In my custom sets I've adopted the term 'mana sum', which is even shorter and IMO clearer. Maybe 'value' casuses fewer translations issues or something.
The shuffle change I really don't see the point of. As with the 'any target' template it seems like sacrificing clarity for the sake of brevity, which I don't feel can ever be worth it.
hmmmm
I think you should count again.... haha
you say that "converted mana cost" is too many characters and "mana value" is a valid change but don't see the point with taking out "your library" after the "shuffle".
well...
shuffle your library has 18 characters + 2 spaces, so 20 total... plain simple shuffle has just 7.
converted mana cost has 17 charactrs + 2 spaces, so 19 total... "mana value" has 9 characters + 1 space, so 10 total.
by this "too many characters" metric, then the "shuffle" change is even better than the CMC one.
and the words "your library" are completely useless because what else would the player shuffle? haha
hell, it gets even worse when it's "target player shuffles his or her library" haha
now it would be simply "target player shuffles". it's fine.
in portuguese (my mother language) both phrases take even more characters as the phrases today are "Custo de mana convertido" and "Embaralhe seu grimório"
that being said, I'm still not sure that textbox space is a commodity in such scarcity that made this change a real necessity, but I'm not bothered by it.
And that's why the Kenrith twins went to Kylem to get their exercise.
I think at least one person in this thread made or implied an argument that Strixhaven is based on college/university, which has no mandatory gym class (at least in Canada). Heck, searching for "university phys ed course" on Google mainly gets me web pages on physical education courses that aim to disseminate information to teach to others (such as sports injury prevention) instead of provide constant exercise.
It's just another case of making special cards not special anymore now with "masterpieces" in every pack. Foils are meaningless. Showcase are basically meaningless, extended frame is meaningless, even boxtopper foil style or alternate alt is basically meaningless because collector packs. Too many things being special is actually nothing being special. Sad really.
Some people value things because they like them rather than because other people don't have them.
Why not have just abbreviated 'converted mana cost' as CMC?
Why the need for an entirely new term—why not just 'mana cost' (target card with a mana cost 2 or less)?
When a development team even suggests making gross, unnecessary changes like this to cater to them being worn down—it's time for them to go.
Or at least it's time for them to find a new job to handle at the company.
Converted Mana Cost had the dubious honor of being longer and less intuitive than its replacement. Imagine you've never played Magic before and you see the phrase. You know what a mana cost is, but what are you converting it to? Do you have to pay the mana cost again? Mana Value is much easier to guess what it is. After all, we're all seeing it for the first time and we got it instantly. Not a single person in the thread was confused. Are you really confident that the same would happen if we went from Mana Value to Converted Mana Cost?
If I recall, when I was new to the game, seeing the term 'converted mana cost' was pretty coherent that it was referencing something specific about a mana cost total.
Using this experience as a reference, if I had just seen the term 'mana cost x', I think that would have been pretty self-evident too.
Changing the term entirely was totally unnecessary and in very bad taste.
You seem to be the exception. Every new player I've taught was under the impression that CMC implied some sort of cost, because it had cost at the end. We more experienced Magic players know it's "converted" then "mana cost" and is therefore a number, while the newer players see three words taking about costs again.
The question that remains is: Will they become historic legal? because having stuff like Demonic Tutor and Swords to Plowshares and likely Brainstorm, Lightning Bolt, Counterspell and other stuff at this level would VASTLY change the format.
Considering that the invocation/masterpiece "legacy reprint" cards were never made legal in the modern and standard formats I seriously doubt they would make these reprints historic legal.
The question that remains is: Will they become historic legal? because having stuff like Demonic Tutor and Swords to Plowshares and likely Brainstorm, Lightning Bolt, Counterspell and other stuff at this level would VASTLY change the format.
Considering that the invocation/masterpiece "legacy reprint" cards were never made legal in the modern and standard formats I seriously doubt they would make these reprints historic legal.
I was in the 'didn't like the Amonkhet Masterpieces' camp for all of those reasons. Strixhaven's masterpiece method is quite a bit different though in respect to every pack having one, and they having their own sperate rarities not related to the rest of the pack. It's basically like 'The List' from set boosters but much more available to alleviate skyrocketing singles prices and help with standard in-print set's EV.
I notice that it’s probably the first time in history almost everybody is positive but I think part if it is it’s not a Harry Potter thing it’s Basicly wizards doing are real world everyday subjects in schools/colleges rather than typical magic schools
second this is the first set since Eventide it’s a enemy color focus set.
And I’m so glad the command cycle is complete. but I’m not assumed that orzhov and golgari are sorceries rather than instants like the other 7
and how they doing masterpieces probably from here on out, oh yes I think they cracked it on being able to print the absurd power cards in standard sets without making them legal in standard/modern and for a bonus making them historic legal too (except for tutor and swords though)
But since they’ll be available in all supported languages now, I’m willing to bet that Russian foil versions will give people an extra premium version to chase.
Those Japanese cards look pretty sweet, though.
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
Why not have just abbreviated 'converted mana cost' as CMC?
Why the need for an entirely new term—why not just 'mana cost' (target card with a mana cost 2 or less)?
When a development team even suggests making gross, unnecessary changes like this to cater to them being worn down—it's time for them to go.
Or at least it's time for them to find a new job to handle at the company.
Yea cards get so wordy and mechanical complexity creep is invasive to the game.
They want to cut down some words, so they can slam even more text on a card without shrinking the text font itself (they do that sometimes for some languages or if they have too many card types and creature types, then the text gets small and almost unreadable).
Have a topic for that kind:
textbox-and-mechanic-complexity-creep
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Converted Mana Cost had the dubious honor of being longer and less intuitive than its replacement. Imagine you've never played Magic before and you see the phrase. You know what a mana cost is, but what are you converting it to? Do you have to pay the mana cost again? Mana Value is much easier to guess what it is. After all, we're all seeing it for the first time and we got it instantly. Not a single person in the thread was confused. Are you really confident that the same would happen if we went from Mana Value to Converted Mana Cost?
I still think it's a cool idea though. Masterpieces were a bit greedy imo of Wizards, and this feels more wholesome and while being readily available, I am sure there will still be some really good ones that people will love and pay money for.
"These magical school houses make no sense, why can't they be like real college coursework?"
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I think the Amonkhet Masterpiece frame was a bit more "out there" at the time and was harder to read, so that didn't help. Having these guaranteed one per booster box is nice too, so its not so much of a crapshoot to get one (but with 81 of there will only be about 30% more in circulation as any individual masterpiece)
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I mean, they will be a very integral part of Strixhaven limited, so they have to be in somehow.
the question that remains is: Will they become historic legal? because having stuff like Demonic Tutor and Swords to Plowshares and likely Brainstorm, Lightning Bolt, Counterspell and other stuff at this level would VASTLY change the format.
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
If I recall, when I was new to the game, seeing the term 'converted mana cost' was pretty coherent that it was referencing something specific about a mana cost total.
Using this experience as a reference, if I had just seen the term 'mana cost x', I think that would have been pretty self-evident too.
Changing the term entirely was totally unnecessary and in very bad taste.
The shuffle change I really don't see the point of. As with the 'any target' template it seems like sacrificing clarity for the sake of brevity, which I don't feel can ever be worth it.
Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face
Thou shalt not change rules in vain
Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy
Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities
Thou shalt not kill mana burn
Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility
Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack
Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards
All must be one
hmmmm
I think you should count again.... haha
you say that "converted mana cost" is too many characters and "mana value" is a valid change but don't see the point with taking out "your library" after the "shuffle".
well...
shuffle your library has 18 characters + 2 spaces, so 20 total... plain simple shuffle has just 7.
converted mana cost has 17 charactrs + 2 spaces, so 19 total... "mana value" has 9 characters + 1 space, so 10 total.
by this "too many characters" metric, then the "shuffle" change is even better than the CMC one.
and the words "your library" are completely useless because what else would the player shuffle? haha
hell, it gets even worse when it's "target player shuffles his or her library" haha
now it would be simply "target player shuffles". it's fine.
in portuguese (my mother language) both phrases take even more characters as the phrases today are "Custo de mana convertido" and "Embaralhe seu grimório"
that being said, I'm still not sure that textbox space is a commodity in such scarcity that made this change a real necessity, but I'm not bothered by it.
And that's why the Kenrith twins went to Kylem to get their exercise.
I think at least one person in this thread made or implied an argument that Strixhaven is based on college/university, which has no mandatory gym class (at least in Canada). Heck, searching for "university phys ed course" on Google mainly gets me web pages on physical education courses that aim to disseminate information to teach to others (such as sports injury prevention) instead of provide constant exercise.
Some people value things because they like them rather than because other people don't have them.
Considering that the invocation/masterpiece "legacy reprint" cards were never made legal in the modern and standard formats I seriously doubt they would make these reprints historic legal.
Modern: B 8RACK B
EDH: BRU Mishra, Artificer Prodigy BRU, W Kemba, Kha Regent W, B Ghoulcaller Gisa B, BU Oona, Queen of the Fae BU, G Seton, Krosan Protector G, BW Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim BW, R Purphoros, God of the Forge R, UGW Arcades, the Strategist UGW, GW Karametra, God of Harvests GW, GU Edric, Spymaster of Trest GU, UW Grand Arbiter Augustin IV UW, BRW Kaalia of the Vast BRW, BRU Nekusar, the Mindrazer BRU, BGWU Thrasios, Triton Hero/Tymna the Weaver BGWU
https://twitter.com/MTG_Arena/status/1362555679844814853
This saids otherwise