I think it’s pretty cool to have a monk serve as a literally living history and library of a plane. Kamigawa monks seems to be all about that. Makes sense to me. Green is all about the past and creatures. A creature library makes sense.
[quote from="Tormented »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/818637-commander-collection-green?comment=14"]Sylvan library is a complete disconnect (why isn't that chord of calling or even shamanic revelation?). The art is fine - it just doesn't say library - Reki, is some sort of Homer-esque storyteller if I understand correctly. It would be like having a picture of a Ral Zarek on Fiery Confluence.
This Sylvan library is amazing for capturing what Reki was. Your failure in understanding Reki when his card clearly spells out what he was is your own problem. Reki, the History of Kamigawa."After his death, monks spent ten years transcribing the tattoos from Reki's body and gathering stories from those who spoke with him. Thus the volume you hold was written."
—The History of Kamigawa
His flavor text spells it out fairly plainly. His body was a comprehensive text. He was no mere story teller. He was the history of kamigawa.
Okay - I'll admit it has been years since I read his flavor text. So I'll upgrade him from Homer to Herodotus - a man whose book "Histories" was literally the entire history of the world as the Greeks knew it. Reki in this respect would represent ONE book. Still not a library.
library (n)
a building or room containing collections of books, periodicals, and sometimes films and recorded music for people to read, borrow, or refer to.
"a school library"
a collection of books and periodicals held in a library.
"the Institute houses an outstanding library of 35,000 volumes on the fine arts"
a room in a private house where books are kept.
You may love the flavor of Reki, or admire the art, but please don't insult me and say that Reki in any manner would evoke an image of sylvan (consisting or associated to woods) library (a collection of books).
I love that meme for my argument. A metaphor for what?
To be fair, no other iteration of Sylvan Library has evoked, for me, a mental image of an actual library.
snip
They're... trees.
snip
*SYLVAN* - having to do with the FOREST!
It is a giant structure in the forest. Without putting books/scrolls in the art I couldn't imagine a more appropriate piece of art.
Reki, at least, represents something akin to the Buddhist oral tradition insofar as the passing of their accumulated knowledge in a manner commensurate with Kamigawan lore - a plane that has long been at odds with player expectations for adhering too closely to Japanese cultural and spiritual norms. It would be uncharitable to call him an Eastern Herodotus without any substantial comprehension of just how vastly different European and Asian cultures are (or can be), a comprehension that I am brave enough to admit even I lack. I had to ask a friend, an Asian Studies major, to explain the instrument - apparently it's a form of meditation which succeeds total enlightenment. If Reki represents the accumulated knowledge of his people, then I have no problem considering him to be a library. [/quote}
Shamanistic Revelation. - card draw through enlightenment
Chord of calling - using that instrument to somehow call a critter to your enlightenment - I have no idea how you would explain the spell so feel free to use Reki.
Reki is a terrible representation for Sylvan - monks are not forest creatures - they may be aligned with natural order and possess that aspect of green - but they are not of the forest.
Reki is a very, very weak representation of library
I love that meme for my argument. A metaphor for what?
You gave us a literal definition for the term 'library.' I explained how Reki is, in fact, a metaphorical library.
Quote from Tormented »
*SYLVAN* - having to do with the FOREST!
It is a giant structure in the forest. Without putting books/scrolls in the art I couldn't imagine a more appropriate piece of art.
You're right, the old pictures did have trees in them. I was referring to the abject lack of libraries in those images, but if you're going to insist on being literal, then yes, we should expect to see books and / or scrolls. Or should we suppose that a basic Forest is also a library, by mere virtue of having depicted trees?
Quote from Tormented »
Chord of calling - using that instrument to somehow call a critter to your enlightenment - I have no idea how you would explain the spell so feel free to use Reki.
I'm confused... are you mistaking Yisan for Reki?
Quote from Tormented »
Reki is a terrible representation for Sylvan - monks are not forest creatures - they may be aligned with natural order and possess that aspect of green - but they are not of the forest.
I have a definition for you (credit to Google):
syl·van
consisting of or associated with woods; wooded.
"trees and contours all add to a sylvan setting"
pleasantly rural or pastoral.
If detachment and serenity are not the purview of monkhood, then I don't know what is. How invested are you in Kamigawan lore, to be in a position of so much knowledge about monks?
Quote from Tormented »
Reki is a very, very weak representation of library
Arguably not, but who am I to rattle your argumentative confidence?
My disappointment is immeasurable. Sol Ring and Command Tower being in this feels like theft. It’s not 8 green cards, it’s 6. Don’t care that their art is ever so slightly “green themed”.
Command Tower just has a green light emanating from the same spot in the typical art. Neat? You’re not playing command tower in your mono-green deck typical anyway and if the deck isn’t monogreen then why do you need a green themed command tower?
IMO, a card that taps for two colorless is only ever so slightly less out of place in this kind of collection because at least you’ll play it in your green deck...
Of the remaining 6 actually green cards, Worldly Tutor, Seedborn Muse, and Sylvan Library are actually interesting but I’m not a fan of the art on any of them so they feel disappointing as well. Wizards has just been missing the damn point lately or I’m no longer the target audience. Or both.
It’s not really altogether different from the recent spate of SL drops, for whatever that’s worth; apart from the art, the cards in Every Dog Has Its Day have nothing to do with dogs. This will actually be the first premium product since Terese Nielsen’s SDCC alternate art ‘walkers to garner my interest (and earn my money), even though I’m only interested in half the cards - including the ones you take issue with.
——
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Perfectly valid. To each their own; which is why I recognize that I must no longer be part of the target audience for the vast majority of their products.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think the SL ever promise anything. The nature of that product is different than this one. This product is closer to a From the Vault style and so two cards that are not even green being part of something named Commander: Green or whatever...it’s odd.
It’s not as if they don’t have a massive pool of cards to select from either, so the decisions made continues to feel more and more weird.
Presumptuously, they’ll follow a pattern here and do the same for the other 5 colors. That Command Tower will get more obnoxious for each subsequent release, IMO. I’m still on the fence with the Sol Ring. I don’t think it is as bad as Command Tower but it still feels like a wasted slot.
Perfectly valid. To each their own; which is why I recognize that I must no longer be part of the target audience for the vast majority of their products.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think the SL ever promise anything. The nature of that product is different than this one. This product is closer to a From the Vault style and so two cards that are not even green being part of something named Commander: Green or whatever...it’s odd.
It’s not as if they don’t have a massive pool of cards to select from either, so the decisions made continues to feel more and more weird.
Presumptuously, they’ll follow a pattern here and do the same for the other 5 colors. That Command Tower will get more obnoxious for each subsequent release, IMO. I’m still on the fence with the Sol Ring. I don’t think it is as bad as Command Tower but it still feels like a wasted slot.
Also totally fair. I've long advocated for the fact that not every product is for everyone, and our combined experiences bear that out.
While I appreciate (or even love) the art on the colorless cards, I also understand that their inclusion is somewhat... pointless? I'll use them and enjoy every moment of it, but there's absolutely no justification to include Command Tower in a mono-colored deck, if we go so far as to assume that was the point of this specific collection. I can only hope that they complete the cycle at some point farther down the road.
Insofar as dedicating 2 of the 8 cards to off-color staples, I'd wager that likely has to do with the secondary market value of the combined pack, despite Wizard's insistence that they don't pay attention to the secondary market. If we suppose that Command Tower and Sol Ring were included to tame the overall value (and therefor price), then we're ultimately left with two other hypothetical alternatives: 8 out 8 cards are outstanding, on-color cards in need of reprints, thus elevating the price of this product well above what we currently expect to pay; or 8 out of 8 cards are middling in value and need reprinting far less, thus lowering the overall price. I could see a scenario where sheer demand drives up the price of the first example even more, and lack of interesting or worthwhile inclusions effectively kills the second. Wherever your preference lies is, in the end, entirely up to you, but for my money I'm thoroughly content with several of these cards to the point where the less ideal inclusions aren't just unproblematic, they're also saving me some hard-earned quiche.
Perfectly valid. To each their own; which is why I recognize that I must no longer be part of the target audience for the vast majority of their products.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think the SL ever promise anything. The nature of that product is different than this one. This product is closer to a From the Vault style and so two cards that are not even green being part of something named Commander: Green or whatever...it’s odd.
It’s not as if they don’t have a massive pool of cards to select from either, so the decisions made continues to feel more and more weird.
Presumptuously, they’ll follow a pattern here and do the same for the other 5 colors. That Command Tower will get more obnoxious for each subsequent release, IMO. I’m still on the fence with the Sol Ring. I don’t think it is as bad as Command Tower but it still feels like a wasted slot.
Also totally fair. I've long advocated for the fact that not every product is for everyone, and our combined experiences bear that out.
While I appreciate (or even love) the art on the colorless cards, I also understand that their inclusion is somewhat... pointless? I'll use them and enjoy every moment of it, but there's absolutely no justification to include Command Tower in a mono-colored deck, if we go so far as to assume that was the point of this specific collection. I can only hope that they complete the cycle at some point farther down the road.
Insofar as dedicating 2 of the 8 cards to off-color staples, I'd wager that likely has to do with the secondary market value of the combined pack, despite Wizard's insistence that they don't pay attention to the secondary market. If we suppose that Command Tower and Sol Ring were included to tame the overall value (and therefor price), then we're ultimately left with two other hypothetical alternatives: 8 out 8 cards are outstanding, on-color cards in need of reprints, thus elevating the price of this product well above what we currently expect to pay; or 8 out of 8 cards are middling in value and need reprinting far less, thus lowering the overall price. I could see a scenario where sheer demand drives up the price of the first example even more, and lack of interesting or worthwhile inclusions effectively kills the second. Wherever your preference lies is, in the end, entirely up to you, but for my money I'm thoroughly content with several of these cards to the point where the less ideal inclusions aren't just unproblematic, they're also saving me some hard-earned quiche.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I actually take very little issue with the inclusion of command tower and sol ring in principle. I don't think this product is designed entirely for mono green commanders - but rather for commanders that have a predominantly green theme. In that respect, as I stated earlier, sol ring is one of the few hits for me aesthetically. The command tower, however is a huge missed opportunity in my opinion.
Of my commander group, between the 5 of us, we have a combined desire to obtain 6 of the cards (one of my group loves freyalise the rest of us hate it), with 2 of those being desire for the card solely for the foil characteristic (bane of progress and sylvan library). So if the price is reasonable, we'll split the set up. But that corresponds to a 20% hit rate on what should have been a 100% hit - we have enough decks that we should have all wanted to purchase one
Managed to preorder the non-foil version for about 60 bucks. Money well spent, I think.
I (obviously) really like the Reki Library. I get that some people don't love the art but I really do: aside from the fact that I have a Reki deck, I think it's cool to have a "living library" as the art for Sylvan.
A friend objected to the idea of having the library on Kamigawa, arguing that there should be only one Sylvan Library (presumably somewhere on Dominaria). I still like it.
I don't love the "green" command tower, for reasons already mentioned. I love, love, love that "green" Sol Ring, though.
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|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I love that meme for my argument. A metaphor for what?
To be fair, no other iteration of Sylvan Library has evoked, for me, a mental image of an actual library.
snip
They're... trees.
snip
*SYLVAN* - having to do with the FOREST!
It is a giant structure in the forest. Without putting books/scrolls in the art I couldn't imagine a more appropriate piece of art.
Reki, at least, represents something akin to the Buddhist oral tradition insofar as the passing of their accumulated knowledge in a manner commensurate with Kamigawan lore - a plane that has long been at odds with player expectations for adhering too closely to Japanese cultural and spiritual norms. It would be uncharitable to call him an Eastern Herodotus without any substantial comprehension of just how vastly different European and Asian cultures are (or can be), a comprehension that I am brave enough to admit even I lack. I had to ask a friend, an Asian Studies major, to explain the instrument - apparently it's a form of meditation which succeeds total enlightenment. If Reki represents the accumulated knowledge of his people, then I have no problem considering him to be a library. [/quote}
Shamanistic Revelation. - card draw through enlightenment
Chord of calling - using that instrument to somehow call a critter to your enlightenment - I have no idea how you would explain the spell so feel free to use Reki.
Reki is a terrible representation for Sylvan - monks are not forest creatures - they may be aligned with natural order and possess that aspect of green - but they are not of the forest.
Reki is a very, very weak representation of library
QED
You gave us a literal definition for the term 'library.' I explained how Reki is, in fact, a metaphorical library.
You're right, the old pictures did have trees in them. I was referring to the abject lack of libraries in those images, but if you're going to insist on being literal, then yes, we should expect to see books and / or scrolls. Or should we suppose that a basic Forest is also a library, by mere virtue of having depicted trees?
I'm confused... are you mistaking Yisan for Reki?
I have a definition for you (credit to Google):
syl·van
If detachment and serenity are not the purview of monkhood, then I don't know what is. How invested are you in Kamigawan lore, to be in a position of so much knowledge about monks?
Arguably not, but who am I to rattle your argumentative confidence?
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Perfectly valid. To each their own; which is why I recognize that I must no longer be part of the target audience for the vast majority of their products.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think the SL ever promise anything. The nature of that product is different than this one. This product is closer to a From the Vault style and so two cards that are not even green being part of something named Commander: Green or whatever...it’s odd.
It’s not as if they don’t have a massive pool of cards to select from either, so the decisions made continues to feel more and more weird.
Presumptuously, they’ll follow a pattern here and do the same for the other 5 colors. That Command Tower will get more obnoxious for each subsequent release, IMO. I’m still on the fence with the Sol Ring. I don’t think it is as bad as Command Tower but it still feels like a wasted slot.
2 of which are very sought after. Now lets hope there is enough supply because the demmand is going to be huge for this at 40 USD.
Also totally fair. I've long advocated for the fact that not every product is for everyone, and our combined experiences bear that out.
While I appreciate (or even love) the art on the colorless cards, I also understand that their inclusion is somewhat... pointless? I'll use them and enjoy every moment of it, but there's absolutely no justification to include Command Tower in a mono-colored deck, if we go so far as to assume that was the point of this specific collection. I can only hope that they complete the cycle at some point farther down the road.
Insofar as dedicating 2 of the 8 cards to off-color staples, I'd wager that likely has to do with the secondary market value of the combined pack, despite Wizard's insistence that they don't pay attention to the secondary market. If we suppose that Command Tower and Sol Ring were included to tame the overall value (and therefor price), then we're ultimately left with two other hypothetical alternatives: 8 out 8 cards are outstanding, on-color cards in need of reprints, thus elevating the price of this product well above what we currently expect to pay; or 8 out of 8 cards are middling in value and need reprinting far less, thus lowering the overall price. I could see a scenario where sheer demand drives up the price of the first example even more, and lack of interesting or worthwhile inclusions effectively kills the second. Wherever your preference lies is, in the end, entirely up to you, but for my money I'm thoroughly content with several of these cards to the point where the less ideal inclusions aren't just unproblematic, they're also saving me some hard-earned quiche.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I actually take very little issue with the inclusion of command tower and sol ring in principle. I don't think this product is designed entirely for mono green commanders - but rather for commanders that have a predominantly green theme. In that respect, as I stated earlier, sol ring is one of the few hits for me aesthetically. The command tower, however is a huge missed opportunity in my opinion.
Of my commander group, between the 5 of us, we have a combined desire to obtain 6 of the cards (one of my group loves freyalise the rest of us hate it), with 2 of those being desire for the card solely for the foil characteristic (bane of progress and sylvan library). So if the price is reasonable, we'll split the set up. But that corresponds to a 20% hit rate on what should have been a 100% hit - we have enough decks that we should have all wanted to purchase one
I (obviously) really like the Reki Library. I get that some people don't love the art but I really do: aside from the fact that I have a Reki deck, I think it's cool to have a "living library" as the art for Sylvan.
A friend objected to the idea of having the library on Kamigawa, arguing that there should be only one Sylvan Library (presumably somewhere on Dominaria). I still like it.
I don't love the "green" command tower, for reasons already mentioned. I love, love, love that "green" Sol Ring, though.