I'm glad that Magic has the self-awareness to keep stuff like this up. I remember when they censured the pentagram from the original Unholy Strength, or when they both removed the boob window from the first Nissa Revane as well as retconned her from xenophobic anti-elf druid to worldsoul shaman. Back in the early days of Magic there was a card game called Jihad that renamed itself into Vampire: the Eternal Struggle, it made sense 20 something years ago so it's a wonder why the magic card has been under the radar for so long.
As a kid I had a card in my black deck called Hellfire and my friend's parents always didn't like it. Remember when MtG and DnD were considered pagan devil worship tools?
While I agree with Invoke Prejudice's ban for obvious art reasons, and the Gypsies too, the other ones seem pretty hypocritical and pandering from WotC considering cards such as Torture and Murder are just fine.
Use of racist imagery and language is not the same as depictions of violence. That's not hypocritical on WotC's part, it's a blatant equivocation on yours.
At some point we'll have to talk about what PETA might think about your current profile pic, too. I'm not even sure if that's necessarily a bad thing. And no, that's not comparing animal abuse to racism, it's addressing the overall blatantly graphic nature of many of this game's illustrations.
Public Mod Note
(Ulka):
Warning for Offtopic spamming
Remember when MtG and DnD were considered pagan devil worship tools?
*Spits out milk* Wait, WHAT?!
Oh, yes. In the early 80s there was an entire conspiracy theory about how D&D was actually a gateway to lure children and teenagers into the occult and, subsequently, actual demon/devil worship with rituals and everything. One of Jack Chick's most famous tracts was about that idea; that tract was so famous someone made a movie about it--our son found a JonTron video where he watches the movie. When MtG rolled around it was actually so small that it did not make many cultural waves--most people were still reeling about Tipper Gore's vendetta against rock music. Still, some people got upset over the original art on Unholy Strength specifically because of the inverted pentagram. even though they did not seem to mind the actual Demonic Hordes.
I know that some of you took offense to my comments here, but for a company to seek out and highlight unintentional instances of marginalization is doing far more damage than good. As far as I am aware, no significant portion of the mtg community is using Cleanse to promote racism. Gypsy is a term that has transcended racial connotations and just means traveller/nomad. If a word is not being used to degrade/separate, it isn't racist. Use context, use intention - and heck, we have pictures to help decide if the intention (ahem Invoke prejudice) was racist.
F***ing stupid token gesture, cheap and hypocritical.
Invoke Prejudice - OK, this card is repeatedly mentioned, and should have been gone long ago. They were doing nothing for 25 years.
But Cleanse? Crusade? What the actual heck?
What will follow? All "hate cards" towards black are banned? All cards saying "nonwhite" are going to be banned?
This is nothing more but a no-cost empty gesture, trying to ride on the current waves of public opinion.
I'd like more to see them address the recent reports of discrimination regarding the jobs, intentionally not employing black or Asian artists / content creators, etc. Not these cheap shots.
This post has been removed. Racism has no place on MTGSalvation.
This is one of the crappiest takes I've seen on this board. You've taken the cake on this. To say that racism isn't real is completely disingenious. You should be ashamed of yourself and honestly probably shunned out of any community as a whole. While I do agree with your argument that most everything is economically driven, the fact that you only focus on that and not the atrocities that are caused on races because of that is sickening. Slavery was an economic decision that resulted in racism against African Americans. To say that we aren't still seeing the negative impacts of racism from economic decisions is tone-deaf at best. You focus on a dollar aspect, while a valid interpretation of policy, still doesn't include a human aspect to it. To marginalize people is economically beneficial to people, is also racially harmful to other people.
I think changing the MULTIVERSEID of Invoke Prejudice was warranted; I don't think most people knew about it until it was pointed out in an open letter on Reddit the other day. The removal of the artwork on the Gatherer and the bannings seem to be a diversionary tactic by panicking WOTC employees. They even removed the Duel Decks art of Crusade. Crusade (Master's Edition 1) is gone from Magic Online, presumably removed from player's collections. Were any of the other cards printed to Magic Online?
It's nice to send a signal that they care. It's another entirely to try and cover up the mistake they let hang in the air for so long and not apologize for it. Taking cards out of peoples MTGO collections... has that been done before? The copy of Crusade I have on MTGO is the Duel Decks version and it still appears legal in Legacy/vintage/commander. I think this action needs to be refined.
Note; I understand why Crusade has to be banned; it was so that Jihad could be banned. They are both the same thing.
F***ing stupid token gesture, cheap and hypocritical.
Invoke Prejudice - OK, this card is repeatedly mentioned, and should have been gone long ago. They were doing nothing for 25 years.
But Cleanse? Crusade? What the actual heck?
What will follow? All "hate cards" towards black are banned? All cards saying "nonwhite" are going to be banned?
This is nothing more but a no-cost empty gesture, trying to ride on the current waves of public opinion.
I'd like more to see them address the recent reports of discrimination regarding the jobs, intentionally not employing black or Asian artists / content creators, etc. Not these cheap shots.
F***ing stupid token gesture, cheap and hypocritical.
Invoke Prejudice - OK, this card is repeatedly mentioned, and should have been gone long ago. They were doing nothing for 25 years.
But Cleanse? Crusade? What the actual heck?
What will follow? All "hate cards" towards black are banned? All cards saying "nonwhite" are going to be banned?
This is nothing more but a no-cost empty gesture, trying to ride on the current waves of public opinion.
I'd like more to see them address the recent reports of discrimination regarding the jobs, intentionally not employing black or Asian artists / content creators, etc. Not these cheap shots.
Shame.
They absolutely should address those reports. Link for anyone who doesn't know anything about this.
But this isn't an either/or situation. This move is comparatively small and easy, but it's still better than nothing. Invoke Prejudice is not the only card that deserves to be addressed, even if we want to question some of the members of this list. It's not much, but this is a start for WotC acknowledging their own mistakes. It's a show that WotC is listening and is concerned, even if their motivations for that aren't entirely in the right place. And that shows that maybe there is a chance of something more if the pressure continues. Especially at a time like this.
I guess I'm looking on the bright side, but hey.
F***ing stupid token gesture, cheap and hypocritical.
Invoke Prejudice - OK, this card is repeatedly mentioned, and should have been gone long ago. They were doing nothing for 25 years.
But Cleanse? Crusade? What the actual heck?
What will follow? All "hate cards" towards black are banned? All cards saying "nonwhite" are going to be banned?
This is nothing more but a no-cost empty gesture, trying to ride on the current waves of public opinion.
I'd like more to see them address the recent reports of discrimination regarding the jobs, intentionally not employing black or Asian artists / content creators, etc. Not these cheap shots.
Shame.
I can agree both ways honestly. I do think it's better to just be rid of them though. Some selections were a bit of a stretch, but others seemed better off removed.
The thing with Magic is that the whole premise of the game is people trying to best each other using a variety of cards and strategies. Some might do that by playing cute Cats and Unicorns and getting their opponents to draw on an empty deck, all peaceful like. Others will Enslave and Disembowel and Murder in order to win unless that aspect is removed from the game entirely.
You know, when we as educators address kids playing knights, police, cowboys and other roleplays that *enact* hunting, detaining or hurting people, the realisation is usually that the kids are very aware that that would all be horrible things to *actually* do and then those kids are often dumbfounded that us adults even float the notion they would do such things.
So, yeah, I believe most players playing against someone using cards that depict horrible things don't automatically assume that player condones such things in real life.
Okay this topic has gone wildly off topic. The discussion is about the 7 cards banned. At this point I will be locking this thread due to it has gone wildly offtopic.
Ulka
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
As a kid I had a card in my black deck called Hellfire and my friend's parents always didn't like it. Remember when MtG and DnD were considered pagan devil worship tools?
*Spits out milk* Wait, WHAT?!
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
At some point we'll have to talk about what PETA might think about your current profile pic, too. I'm not even sure if that's necessarily a bad thing. And no, that's not comparing animal abuse to racism, it's addressing the overall blatantly graphic nature of many of this game's illustrations.
Oh, yes. In the early 80s there was an entire conspiracy theory about how D&D was actually a gateway to lure children and teenagers into the occult and, subsequently, actual demon/devil worship with rituals and everything. One of Jack Chick's most famous tracts was about that idea; that tract was so famous someone made a movie about it--our son found a JonTron video where he watches the movie. When MtG rolled around it was actually so small that it did not make many cultural waves--most people were still reeling about Tipper Gore's vendetta against rock music. Still, some people got upset over the original art on Unholy Strength specifically because of the inverted pentagram. even though they did not seem to mind the actual Demonic Hordes.
Invoke Prejudice - OK, this card is repeatedly mentioned, and should have been gone long ago. They were doing nothing for 25 years.
But Cleanse? Crusade? What the actual heck?
What will follow? All "hate cards" towards black are banned? All cards saying "nonwhite" are going to be banned?
This is nothing more but a no-cost empty gesture, trying to ride on the current waves of public opinion.
I'd like more to see them address the recent reports of discrimination regarding the jobs, intentionally not employing black or Asian artists / content creators, etc. Not these cheap shots.
Shame.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
This is one of the crappiest takes I've seen on this board. You've taken the cake on this. To say that racism isn't real is completely disingenious. You should be ashamed of yourself and honestly probably shunned out of any community as a whole. While I do agree with your argument that most everything is economically driven, the fact that you only focus on that and not the atrocities that are caused on races because of that is sickening. Slavery was an economic decision that resulted in racism against African Americans. To say that we aren't still seeing the negative impacts of racism from economic decisions is tone-deaf at best. You focus on a dollar aspect, while a valid interpretation of policy, still doesn't include a human aspect to it. To marginalize people is economically beneficial to people, is also racially harmful to other people.
It's nice to send a signal that they care. It's another entirely to try and cover up the mistake they let hang in the air for so long and not apologize for it. Taking cards out of peoples MTGO collections... has that been done before? The copy of Crusade I have on MTGO is the Duel Decks version and it still appears legal in Legacy/vintage/commander. I think this action needs to be refined.
Note; I understand why Crusade has to be banned; it was so that Jihad could be banned. They are both the same thing.
I 100% agree with you on this.
Just sayin
#savetheplanet
powpercube Johnny https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
They absolutely should address those reports. Link for anyone who doesn't know anything about this.
But this isn't an either/or situation. This move is comparatively small and easy, but it's still better than nothing. Invoke Prejudice is not the only card that deserves to be addressed, even if we want to question some of the members of this list. It's not much, but this is a start for WotC acknowledging their own mistakes. It's a show that WotC is listening and is concerned, even if their motivations for that aren't entirely in the right place. And that shows that maybe there is a chance of something more if the pressure continues. Especially at a time like this.
I guess I'm looking on the bright side, but hey.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
You know, when we as educators address kids playing knights, police, cowboys and other roleplays that *enact* hunting, detaining or hurting people, the realisation is usually that the kids are very aware that that would all be horrible things to *actually* do and then those kids are often dumbfounded that us adults even float the notion they would do such things.
So, yeah, I believe most players playing against someone using cards that depict horrible things don't automatically assume that player condones such things in real life.
Ulka