I will point out that the Mox Opal seems odd. These lists were emailed out as early as February but the Mox was banned in Modern (it’s primary home, to my knowledge) in January.
I’m wondering if we should take that as a sign of an impending un-ban (as with JTMS in eternal masters) but that would imply that wizards started planning to unban the card one month after they banned it... which would be all kinds of weird.
My best guess was that the list was taken from early planning from the set and that Mox has since been replaced with something else. Will be kind of funky otherwise.
They will finalise the set way earlier than January, probably like a year before release, at that time Mox Opal seemed in desperate need of a reprint.
I would say that leak seems very likely to be true. If you look at the number crunch between Blightsteel Colossus and Mana Crypt there are a huge number of artifacts in this set for a masters set. With that in mind you get the feeling Metalcraft is probably one of the supported mechanics for limited. With the double theme in mind I'm also strong expecting Chrome Mox to be in the set, as it's another one that's been creeping up for ages in need of a reprint, plus what other Mox can they realistically reprint?
I'm actually kind of curious, there looks to be around 80 artifacts in this set, what other big hitters are there primed for a reprint? You are probably looking at some of the Swords, Chalice of the Void, Ensnaring Bridge, Aether Vial, Mishra's Bauble being in this set with that number of artifacts.
If the packs are more than $15/pack I don't see this set selling too many boxes or packs any time soon. We are in a global recession but Wizards are ramping up the products this year instead of scaling down, between Core 21, Secret Lair drops, Double Masters and we just had Ikoria come out that's about 4 new sets of cards in just 3 months, let's not forget Jumpstart, whenever that will come out.
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If the packs are more than $15/pack I don't see this set selling too many boxes or packs any time soon. We are in a global recession but Wizards are ramping up the products this year instead of scaling down, between Core 21, Secret Lair drops, Double Masters and we just had Ikoria come out that's about 4 new sets of cards in just 3 months, let's not forget Jumpstart, whenever that will come out.
A lot of people make a lot of money in stock market right now.
So it all depends on what you get your money from.
For a lot of working people this is a terrible bad time with no income, for others its a free check of 100.000$ just by investing in stocks that tanked so badly that they jump right back up.
In Magic you see the same. People without money sell all their cards, while others use the time and buy up all the stuff (extremely visible in cEDH cards that ramp up in price like crazy).
If the packs are more than $15/pack I don't see this set selling too many boxes or packs any time soon. We are in a global recession but Wizards are ramping up the products this year instead of scaling down, between Core 21, Secret Lair drops, Double Masters and we just had Ikoria come out that's about 4 new sets of cards in just 3 months, let's not forget Jumpstart, whenever that will come out.
Funny enough with box’s at 300 that actually makes packs about 12.5 when a single one is 16 so it's better to get a box as crazy as it sounds
If the packs are more than $15/pack I don't see this set selling too many boxes or packs any time soon. We are in a global recession but Wizards are ramping up the products this year instead of scaling down, between Core 21, Secret Lair drops, Double Masters and we just had Ikoria come out that's about 4 new sets of cards in just 3 months, let's not forget Jumpstart, whenever that will come out.
Funny enough with box’s at 300 that actually makes packs about 12.5 when a single one is 16 so it's better to get a box as crazy as it sounds
Crazy??? Its always been that way. Individual booster price is always better when you buy a box over individual packs. Now I can understand if someone doesn't have 300 bucks to pop down on a BB. The problem is a BB shouldn't be 300 bucks for just 24 packs. Catering to whales is going to catch up to WotC and Hasbro faster than they think.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
If the packs are more than $15/pack I don't see this set selling too many boxes or packs any time soon. We are in a global recession but Wizards are ramping up the products this year instead of scaling down, between Core 21, Secret Lair drops, Double Masters and we just had Ikoria come out that's about 4 new sets of cards in just 3 months, let's not forget Jumpstart, whenever that will come out.
Funny enough with box’s at 300 that actually makes packs about 12.5 when a single one is 16 so it's better to get a box as crazy as it sounds
Crazy??? Its always been that way. Individual booster price is always better when you buy a box over individual packs. Now I can understand if someone doesn't have 300 bucks to pop down on a BB. The problem is a BB shouldn't be 300 bucks for just 24 packs. Catering to whales is going to catch up to WotC and Hasbro faster than they think.
I'm a math master dude I know it's overpriced regardless box or individual (and I'm aware you could just be messing with me as well by the way)
I'm just saying you would have paid 12.5 per pack vs the 16 both prices are still obnoxious per pack since you can see
(of coarse we still don’t know what's in this yet)
The box is already sold out on Amazon. As much as some of us want people to stop buying these things to send WotC a message that these products are overpriced, that's not what the market seems to indicate.
If the packs are more than $15/pack I don't see this set selling too many boxes or packs any time soon. We are in a global recession but Wizards are ramping up the products this year instead of scaling down, between Core 21, Secret Lair drops, Double Masters and we just had Ikoria come out that's about 4 new sets of cards in just 3 months, let's not forget Jumpstart, whenever that will come out.
Funny enough with box’s at 300 that actually makes packs about 12.5 when a single one is 16 so it's better to get a box as crazy as it sounds
Crazy??? Its always been that way. Individual booster price is always better when you buy a box over individual packs. Now I can understand if someone doesn't have 300 bucks to pop down on a BB. The problem is a BB shouldn't be 300 bucks for just 24 packs. Catering to whales is going to catch up to WotC and Hasbro faster than they think.
I'm a math master dude I know it's overpriced regardless box or individual (and I'm aware you could just be messing with me as well by the way)
I'm just saying you would have paid 12.5 per pack vs the 16 both prices are still obnoxious per pack since you can see
(of coarse we still don’t know what's in this yet)
Try not to get upset, I was just questioning your "crazy" comment. Anyone who has ever bought anything has figured out that you pay less per unit if you buy in bulk. It never sounds crazy to save per unit when you buy in bulk. And it has always been that way for Magic boosters, unless you were being sarcastic (remember the interwebz doesn't pass along that sarcasm). And I agree 100% that even at $12 per pack the price as you say IS obnoxious. WotC isn't going to make this chock full of high dollar reprints at Rare, we know it. Wishful thinking for high value at this point is the extreme not the norm. This set will fall somewhere on the M25 to Ultimate Masters spectrum.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
If the packs are more than $15/pack I don't see this set selling too many boxes or packs any time soon. We are in a global recession but Wizards are ramping up the products this year instead of scaling down, between Core 21, Secret Lair drops, Double Masters and we just had Ikoria come out that's about 4 new sets of cards in just 3 months, let's not forget Jumpstart, whenever that will come out.
Funny enough with box’s at 300 that actually makes packs about 12.5 when a single one is 16 so it's better to get a box as crazy as it sounds
Crazy??? Its always been that way. Individual booster price is always better when you buy a box over individual packs. Now I can understand if someone doesn't have 300 bucks to pop down on a BB. The problem is a BB shouldn't be 300 bucks for just 24 packs. Catering to whales is going to catch up to WotC and Hasbro faster than they think.
I'm a math master dude I know it's overpriced regardless box or individual (and I'm aware you could just be messing with me as well by the way)
I'm just saying you would have paid 12.5 per pack vs the 16 both prices are still obnoxious per pack since you can see
(of coarse we still don’t know what's in this yet)
Try not to get upset, I was just questioning your "crazy" comment. Anyone who has ever bought anything has figured out that you pay less per unit if you buy in bulk. It never sounds crazy to save per unit when you buy in bulk. And it has always been that way for Magic boosters, unless you were being sarcastic (remember the interwebz doesn't pass along that sarcasm). And I agree 100% that even at $12 per pack the price as you say IS obnoxious. WotC isn't going to make this chock full of high dollar reprints at Rare, we know it. Wishful thinking for high value at this point is the extreme not the norm. This set will fall somewhere on the M25 to Ultimate Masters spectrum.
I'm not upset sometimes I don't realize what I say
But yes I do know that
The price tag of this is just yet another example of buy in singles not packs
With the product sold out on Amazon, they can't change the original price anymore. What they can actually do though is announce that they will print to demand, just like Modern Horizons. They haven't stated anything different right now, do they? That should make the price go a little down, at least around UMA levels. Still too high for my taste but a little less outrageous.
Well well, what do we have here? Hang on to your seats, for the low low price of $92,5 each, you can get 4 VIP boosters!
Fancy a draft, anyone?
100 dollar boosters? Why the hell not? Sanity has left town.
Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Well well, what do we have here? Hang on to your seats, for the low low price of $92,5 each, you can get 4 VIP boosters!
Fancy a draft, anyone?
ok out of all the prices they gave for premium products packs this when they finally crossed the line
Almost 100 dollars a pack for collectors edition of double masters
This might be when they get the slap in the face that they got to stop making pack prices in premium products (outside standard/supplament not premium) so huge and do what they did in the first modern masters product
Commander legends better not be above $10 a pack when it’s release (there’s a foil in all the packs is where the worry comes in)
Well well, what do we have here? Hang on to your seats, for the low low price of $92,5 each, you can get 4 VIP boosters!
Fancy a draft, anyone?
Are there collectors boosters for a Masters set? Seriously? At that point why not build a "deck" out of unopened boosters where you play the card equal to the art on the pack. WotC is already doubling down, why not triple down? Hell, while we're at it the price of admission is to buy a case of this set first! MONEY FOR NOTHING AND YOUR CHICKS FOR FREE!
Scariest part is "Out of Stock". Yep 100 dollar boosters sold out. Push the envelope again next round 200 dollar boosters, 1000 dollar boosters, 50,000 dollar boosters. Again why the hell not? Morons are evidently buying these.
Commander legends better not be above $10 a pack when it’s release (there’s a foil in all the packs is where the worry comes in)
Don't worry, they will be. They are going to milk Commander players as hard as they can. And Commander players will gripe as they buy it all up.
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():
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Well well, what do we have here? Hang on to your seats, for the low low price of $92,5 each, you can get 4 VIP boosters!
Fancy a draft, anyone?
ok out of all the prices they gave for premium products packs this when they finally crossed the line
Almost 100 dollars a pack for collectors edition of double masters
This might be when they get the slap in the face that they got to stop making pack prices in premium products (outside standard/supplament not premium) so huge and do what they did in the first modern masters product
Commander legends better not be above $10 a pack when it’s release (there’s a foil in all the packs is where the worry comes in)
is that a real thing? that's disgusting.
they create a premium product that rewards whales and punishes everyone else through exclusion, then they make a super premium product that rewards even fatter whales?
like, that's just disgusting. all it does is reward the rich. they've made their card game mimic the real world economy now, and have created an environment that clearly tells players old and new alike that if you want to win spend money. that's always been a thing but not right in everyones face.
i dunno man, the gambling aspect of the game has always been there just under the surface, but now that we're really recognizing the secondary market value of cards, and producing products that target those who can spend the money while leaving others out... it feels a lot like loot box controversy and i do have to wonder how long before regulation steps in - because remember boosters are still random enough where you won't always get $100 worth of cards.
why do high priced collectors booster exclude people ?
u can still get the normal booster (which is overpriced too, i know, but the point is, collector booster are no exclusion of people, its just alternate art/frame)
and where is the reward for the rich ? you make rich people pay more for a card with the same production cost and same play value, this is actually robber of the rich
i dont understand this outcry. just stop buying this and they will react. the reaction will most likely be wrong, like, oh we sell less product, so sell what we sell for more to keep the same income. but what most of these companies do not understand, if they lose the broad playerbase, they lose whales too, since they have no one left to play against. happened in video games alot, might happen here. but u know, there will always be something else u can play with.
Scariest part is "Out of Stock". Yep 100 dollar boosters sold out. Push the envelope again next round 200 dollar boosters, 1000 dollar boosters, 50,000 dollar boosters. Again why the hell not? Morons are evidently buying these.
Commander legends better not be above $10 a pack when it’s release (there’s a foil in all the packs is where the worry comes in)
Don't worry, they will be. They are going to milk Commander players as hard as they can. And Commander players will gripe as they buy it all up.
Tell that to mystery booster started as a normal pack price with a foil in all of them
(Heck it’s price increase is probably because they can’t make more for the moment because of the you know what’s happening right now)
I think commander legends will just be on the same boat as mystery boosters starts normal but price increase later down the line
Classic short term vs. long term planning. It will catch up to Hasbro/WotC sooner than later. Pretty soon the whales will get full enough, take their money elsewhere and the whole thing will collapse. Maybe then we can reclaim the game via an ownership that is driven by fans and a playerbase. I'd like to also bring up that if you buy 100 packs either sealed or the singles from this set you are part of the problem, not the solution.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
This oversaturation of basic product and introduction of exclusive Premium product is definately getting into Sports card territory.
I might regret it later but I'm pretty sure I'm about to bail on all my high end stuff, sell out before the collapse and continue our fun janky games every week with friends.
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Resigned up after getting lost in the Twitch/MTGS whatever crossover
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
The box is already sold out on Amazon. As much as some of us want people to stop buying these things to send WotC a message that these products are overpriced, that's not what the market seems to indicate.
People lack the perspective what it means to be whale- once i played with one, his budget for that game was 1000$ - per day. And he only was top100 in a pure p2w model..
Papermagic will become collectible only and digital how its played.
Classic short term vs. long term planning. It will catch up to Hasbro/WotC sooner than later. Pretty soon the whales will get full enough, take their money elsewhere and the whole thing will collapse. Maybe then we can reclaim the game via an ownership that is driven by fans and a playerbase. I'd like to also bring up that if you buy 100 packs either sealed or the singles from this set you are part of the problem, not the solution.
The entire global economy has been built around short term gains instead of long term success over the last 40 years or so. A company will cut off its nose to sell it for a quick cash injection. The entire model is based on the delusion of never-ending growth with every quarter’s growth outpacing the previous quarter. If a company needs to invest in itself for long term success but has to have a few bad quarters or years to do it then the market loses faith in them and they’ll probably have their value diminished to next to nothing.
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They will finalise the set way earlier than January, probably like a year before release, at that time Mox Opal seemed in desperate need of a reprint.
I would say that leak seems very likely to be true. If you look at the number crunch between Blightsteel Colossus and Mana Crypt there are a huge number of artifacts in this set for a masters set. With that in mind you get the feeling Metalcraft is probably one of the supported mechanics for limited. With the double theme in mind I'm also strong expecting Chrome Mox to be in the set, as it's another one that's been creeping up for ages in need of a reprint, plus what other Mox can they realistically reprint?
I'm actually kind of curious, there looks to be around 80 artifacts in this set, what other big hitters are there primed for a reprint? You are probably looking at some of the Swords, Chalice of the Void, Ensnaring Bridge, Aether Vial, Mishra's Bauble being in this set with that number of artifacts.
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A lot of people make a lot of money in stock market right now.
So it all depends on what you get your money from.
For a lot of working people this is a terrible bad time with no income, for others its a free check of 100.000$ just by investing in stocks that tanked so badly that they jump right back up.
In Magic you see the same. People without money sell all their cards, while others use the time and buy up all the stuff (extremely visible in cEDH cards that ramp up in price like crazy).
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Funny enough with box’s at 300 that actually makes packs about 12.5 when a single one is 16 so it's better to get a box as crazy as it sounds
Crazy??? Its always been that way. Individual booster price is always better when you buy a box over individual packs. Now I can understand if someone doesn't have 300 bucks to pop down on a BB. The problem is a BB shouldn't be 300 bucks for just 24 packs. Catering to whales is going to catch up to WotC and Hasbro faster than they think.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'm a math master dude I know it's overpriced regardless box or individual (and I'm aware you could just be messing with me as well by the way)
I'm just saying you would have paid 12.5 per pack vs the 16 both prices are still obnoxious per pack since you can see
(of coarse we still don’t know what's in this yet)
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Try not to get upset, I was just questioning your "crazy" comment. Anyone who has ever bought anything has figured out that you pay less per unit if you buy in bulk. It never sounds crazy to save per unit when you buy in bulk. And it has always been that way for Magic boosters, unless you were being sarcastic (remember the interwebz doesn't pass along that sarcasm). And I agree 100% that even at $12 per pack the price as you say IS obnoxious. WotC isn't going to make this chock full of high dollar reprints at Rare, we know it. Wishful thinking for high value at this point is the extreme not the norm. This set will fall somewhere on the M25 to Ultimate Masters spectrum.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'm not upset sometimes I don't realize what I say
But yes I do know that
The price tag of this is just yet another example of buy in singles not packs
Fancy a draft, anyone?
100 dollar boosters? Why the hell not? Sanity has left town.
Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
ok out of all the prices they gave for premium products packs this when they finally crossed the line
Almost 100 dollars a pack for collectors edition of double masters
This might be when they get the slap in the face that they got to stop making pack prices in premium products (outside standard/supplament not premium) so huge and do what they did in the first modern masters product
Commander legends better not be above $10 a pack when it’s release (there’s a foil in all the packs is where the worry comes in)
Are there collectors boosters for a Masters set? Seriously? At that point why not build a "deck" out of unopened boosters where you play the card equal to the art on the pack. WotC is already doubling down, why not triple down? Hell, while we're at it the price of admission is to buy a case of this set first! MONEY FOR NOTHING AND YOUR CHICKS FOR FREE!
Don't worry, they will be. They are going to milk Commander players as hard as they can. And Commander players will gripe as they buy it all up.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
is that a real thing? that's disgusting.
they create a premium product that rewards whales and punishes everyone else through exclusion, then they make a super premium product that rewards even fatter whales?
like, that's just disgusting. all it does is reward the rich. they've made their card game mimic the real world economy now, and have created an environment that clearly tells players old and new alike that if you want to win spend money. that's always been a thing but not right in everyones face.
i dunno man, the gambling aspect of the game has always been there just under the surface, but now that we're really recognizing the secondary market value of cards, and producing products that target those who can spend the money while leaving others out... it feels a lot like loot box controversy and i do have to wonder how long before regulation steps in - because remember boosters are still random enough where you won't always get $100 worth of cards.
u can still get the normal booster (which is overpriced too, i know, but the point is, collector booster are no exclusion of people, its just alternate art/frame)
and where is the reward for the rich ? you make rich people pay more for a card with the same production cost and same play value, this is actually robber of the rich
i dont understand this outcry. just stop buying this and they will react. the reaction will most likely be wrong, like, oh we sell less product, so sell what we sell for more to keep the same income. but what most of these companies do not understand, if they lose the broad playerbase, they lose whales too, since they have no one left to play against. happened in video games alot, might happen here. but u know, there will always be something else u can play with.
Tell that to mystery booster started as a normal pack price with a foil in all of them
(Heck it’s price increase is probably because they can’t make more for the moment because of the you know what’s happening right now)
I think commander legends will just be on the same boat as mystery boosters starts normal but price increase later down the line
Remember, it's double rares, double the fun! You'll get Tree of Redemption to tag along with it!
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I might regret it later but I'm pretty sure I'm about to bail on all my high end stuff, sell out before the collapse and continue our fun janky games every week with friends.
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
People lack the perspective what it means to be whale- once i played with one, his budget for that game was 1000$ - per day. And he only was top100 in a pure p2w model..
Papermagic will become collectible only and digital how its played.
powpercube Johnny https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
The entire global economy has been built around short term gains instead of long term success over the last 40 years or so. A company will cut off its nose to sell it for a quick cash injection. The entire model is based on the delusion of never-ending growth with every quarter’s growth outpacing the previous quarter. If a company needs to invest in itself for long term success but has to have a few bad quarters or years to do it then the market loses faith in them and they’ll probably have their value diminished to next to nothing.