This seems unnecessary. UG was already doing enough. WR needs to have things attacking and for you to have a specific balance of differing creature types to work and costs twice as much. This just says “hey do what you were already doing. I’ll help!” Good card and all but jeeze.
This seems unnecessary. UG was already doing enough. WR needs to have things attacking and for you to have a specific balance of differing creature types to work and costs twice as much. This just says “hey do what you were already doing. I’ll help!” Good card and all but jeeze.
I agree with ya that Boros and White always have to risk themselves to get card advantage while UG and Green just sit back and rake it in. Def think it's about time that RW/W can just sit back and enjoy some card advantage. The whole, 'it's just not what they do' sentiment needs to change to allow RW/W to actually catch up with the other colors.
One extra mana vs two less to untap? I would say the second.
They both produce infinite colorless mana, so the fact that Kinnan produces it 1 per cycle and Zirda produces it 2 per cycle is mostly moot. I'd say probably Kinnan, if mostly because he already has a mana sink for that infinity, though he obviously needs some colored mana to pull it off.
At least for now, I'm not seeing how this card is attractive...
You can consistently be activating his ability twice a turn to cheat out big finishers in the right builds? It's basically everything Timmy players love in one package. Will help you cast expensive spells and can be used to summon out your biggest creatures. The best part is that it has built in redundancy, if you draw into your finishers before cheating them out with the activated ability, the mana bonus ability will help you hardcast instead.
At least for now, I'm not seeing how this card is attractive...
You can consistently be activating his ability twice a turn to cheat out big finishers in the right builds? It's basically everything Timmy players love in one package. Will help you cast expensive spells and can be used to summon out your biggest creatures. The best part is that it has built in redundancy, if you draw into your finishers before cheating them out with the activated ability, the mana bonus ability will help you hardcast instead.
heck you can do more than that, it enables elves to go infinite even faster, in general once you hit infinite which at 2 cmc and making every nonland source tap for 1 extra you should be able to either achieve quickly or just keep playing spells until you can achieve it, anyway once you go infinite you just dump out the entire contents of the deck, and because the excess go to the bottom - even if you whiff you just go again, and again, and again - sure the color pair has trouble with haste - but there's a ton of work arounds especially if you're running utility creatures that let you draw, find, or recur things like time warp or finale of devastation - though more often than not you'll probably just hoof out
Will be a staple in EDH for sure as it works so well with so many mana rocks. Whether it sees any play is to be seen, I never had Leyline of Abundance down as busted, but turned out it was in the right shell. This does actually cost mana though as opposed to Leyline starting in play, and dies to pretty much everything. I would lean towards it doing nothing as I can't see it being more powerful than the Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath shells that already exist, but the effect has the potential to be very powerful.
Can anyone possibly clarify how this card would work with something like Heritage Druid or Birchlore Rangers? In the case where you tap the Druid or Ranger itself, does this make +1 mana? Or plus 3 (or 2 for Birchlore)? I'd think it is only +1. In the case of tapping other Elves and not Druid or Ranger, does this make any extra mana?
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"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
One extra mana vs two less to untap? I would say the second.
They both produce infinite colorless mana, so the fact that Kinnan produces it 1 per cycle and Zirda produces it 2 per cycle is mostly moot. I'd say probably Kinnan, if mostly because he already has a mana sink for that infinity, though he obviously needs some colored mana to pull it off.
A lot of it comes down to tutors (transmute artifact/trophy mage vs enlightened tutor/goblin engineer), search for combo (brainstorm, ponder, pure card draw vs. rummage), inevitability (infinitely large walking ballista is better than infinite fireball is better than infinitely large/pumped critters). Every metric seems to point to UG as being the winner - but you also have to consider how well the deck functions in the absence of the combo - at least for anything but the most serious of cEDH. I know that I would not want a one-trick pony for our kitchen table group - I would want the deck to be fun to play and have a random "oops I win"
Sol Ring reads "T: Add 3" Simic Signet reads "1, T: Add UGG, UUG" Basalt Monolith gets broken in half as already mentioned as it can just get you infinite colorless.
Even an Arcane Signet puts in good work when its doing the same thing as a regular Simic Signet without Kinnan's help yet without having to pay the 1 up front.
Even an Elvish Mystic becomes the equivalent of a mono-green Sol Ring as it adds GG to your pool.
I feel Kinnan has the potential for very explosive opening plays that would feel unfun to play against. And hes already in a better color combo than Rofellos was as he now has access to things like Fierce Guardianship and Cyclonic Rift.
Christmas Land
t1: forest, elf
t2: island, kinnan, elf, elf
t3: 9 mana
Modern...
t1: forest, elf
t2: island, kinnan, mox amber, elf, elvish archdruid
t3: 13 mana
or:
t0: leyline
t1: forest, elf
t2: island, kinnan, mox amber, nissa, untap, swing, paradise druid/sylvan cryatid (good bodyguards for nissa)
t3: how much mana?!
this is the last mythic and this is probably my favorite one
animar, soul of elements and this are gonna be best friends
Dunes of Zairo
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Innistrad - The Darkest Night
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StaffAnd it costs 2 mana, can be your commander, and summon Eldrazi off the top of your deck.
Dunes of Zairo
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Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
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StaffAnd has a friend named Kel that loves orange soda.
I wish this had "Partners with Kelsien, the Plague."
Not letting me make a commander deck with Kinnan and Kel as my commanders is appalling.
I agree with ya that Boros and White always have to risk themselves to get card advantage while UG and Green just sit back and rake it in. Def think it's about time that RW/W can just sit back and enjoy some card advantage. The whole, 'it's just not what they do' sentiment needs to change to allow RW/W to actually catch up with the other colors.
It also counts Artifacts.
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Spoiler EditorOne extra mana vs two less to untap? I would say the second.
At least for now, I'm not seeing how this card is attractive...
Yes, but it will probably fetch craterhoof behemoth or bane of progress more often.
I remember how broken prophet of kruphix was for ramp in momir vig, simic visionary but this card feels even stronger because as you mention it can be a commander, and it allows you to get extra early mana from: sol ring, mana crypt, mana vault, chrome mox, mox diamond, mox opal, mox amber, lotus petal birds of paradise, llanowar elves, fyndhorn elves, boreal druid, grim monolith, signets, talismans, coalition relic, lion's eye diamond, and even lotus bloom and mox tantalite though I don't know anyone yet who uses those last two. We'll all have to wait to test it at the helm of a fine-tuned simic deck, but at a first glance I can say I might like this card even better as a general than Vig, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Prime Speaker Vannifar, Kruphix, god of horizons, Tatyova, benthic druid, Rashmi, eternities crafter or arixmethes, slumbering isle (which this also gives more ramp to once it loses its counters).
This also has some interesting potential with faeburrow elder in standard, works with saruli caretaker (and springleaf drum). Gilded goose, Paradise druid, Incubation druid, leafkin druid, maraleaf pixie, priest of forgotten gods, the great henge, and Jiang Yanggu, wildcrafter also approve!
I used to be a demigod, but now I'm an omnimage
You can consistently be activating his ability twice a turn to cheat out big finishers in the right builds? It's basically everything Timmy players love in one package. Will help you cast expensive spells and can be used to summon out your biggest creatures. The best part is that it has built in redundancy, if you draw into your finishers before cheating them out with the activated ability, the mana bonus ability will help you hardcast instead.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
heck you can do more than that, it enables elves to go infinite even faster, in general once you hit infinite which at 2 cmc and making every nonland source tap for 1 extra you should be able to either achieve quickly or just keep playing spells until you can achieve it, anyway once you go infinite you just dump out the entire contents of the deck, and because the excess go to the bottom - even if you whiff you just go again, and again, and again - sure the color pair has trouble with haste - but there's a ton of work arounds especially if you're running utility creatures that let you draw, find, or recur things like time warp or finale of devastation - though more often than not you'll probably just hoof out
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
A lot of it comes down to tutors (transmute artifact/trophy mage vs enlightened tutor/goblin engineer), search for combo (brainstorm, ponder, pure card draw vs. rummage), inevitability (infinitely large walking ballista is better than infinite fireball is better than infinitely large/pumped critters). Every metric seems to point to UG as being the winner - but you also have to consider how well the deck functions in the absence of the combo - at least for anything but the most serious of cEDH. I know that I would not want a one-trick pony for our kitchen table group - I would want the deck to be fun to play and have a random "oops I win"
Sol Ring reads "T: Add 3"
Simic Signet reads "1, T: Add UGG, UUG"
Basalt Monolith gets broken in half as already mentioned as it can just get you infinite colorless.
Even an Arcane Signet puts in good work when its doing the same thing as a regular Simic Signet without Kinnan's help yet without having to pay the 1 up front.
Even an Elvish Mystic becomes the equivalent of a mono-green Sol Ring as it adds GG to your pool.
I feel Kinnan has the potential for very explosive opening plays that would feel unfun to play against. And hes already in a better color combo than Rofellos was as he now has access to things like Fierce Guardianship and Cyclonic Rift.
For this guy i would say that a return of pioneer's green blue ramp is a possibility.
Christmas Land
t1: forest, elf
t2: island, kinnan, elf, elf
t3: 9 mana
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
Modern...
t1: forest, elf
t2: island, kinnan, mox amber, elf, elvish archdruid
t3: 13 mana
or:
t0: leyline
t1: forest, elf
t2: island, kinnan, mox amber, nissa, untap, swing, paradise druid/sylvan cryatid (good bodyguards for nissa)
t3: how much mana?!
I used to be a demigod, but now I'm an omnimage