How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I bet there are hidden even numbers all over the card (numbers of lines, letters in the name, etc). Even a cursory glance gives us a bunch. Power, toughness, CMC, number of creature types, words in the name.
I've always enjoyed cute little touches like that.
The card itself is fine. Bit of mill, a bit of recursion, a big body, a unique companion stipulation that makes deckbuilding fun. I guess I'm a little lukewarm on big commanders and are essentially vanilla after they enter play. You aren't likely to get more than one or two triggers unless a lot of your deck is based around it, so the trigger really needs to be worth it. This one largely is, though I'm not excited overall. I think I'd run it as one of the 99 in my Multifarious deck.
Yeah... and? winnower interact with your opponents' cards
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Yeah... and? winnower interact with your opponents' cards
It isn't an interaction - the point is that Void Winnower just kills the deck straight out. Void Winnower literally reads "You may not play any spells in a Gyruda Deck"
I bet there are hidden even numbers all over the card (numbers of lines, letters in the name, etc). Even a cursory glance gives us a bunch. Power, toughness, CMC, number of creature types, words in the name.
I've always enjoyed cute little touches like that.
The card itself is fine. Bit of mill, a bit of recursion, a big body, a unique companion stipulation that makes deckbuilding fun. I guess I'm a little lukewarm on big commanders and are essentially vanilla after they enter play. You aren't likely to get more than one or two triggers unless a lot of your deck is based around it, so the trigger really needs to be worth it. This one largely is, though I'm not excited overall. I think I'd run it as one of the 99 in my Multifarious deck.
What about the legend rule? You can’t infinite because it’s not among the milled because you have to sac the clone one
I just mean to play all the clones that are even and keep milling them to copy your Kraken.
Yes it will die (except for Jaces clone) but you keep milling everyone, and if anybody hits something to flicker this guy, keep going, free creature.
Might be interesting to build a deck around, could even be worth playing without the Companion in mind.
It isn't an interaction - the point is that Void Winnower just kills the deck straight out. Void Winnower literally reads "You may not play any spells in a Gyruda Deck"
I don’t think that’s a valid reason to ban a card as Rhyperior originally suggested.
I bet there are hidden even numbers all over the card (numbers of lines, letters in the name, etc). Even a cursory glance gives us a bunch. Power, toughness, CMC, number of creature types, words in the name.
I've always enjoyed cute little touches like that.
The card itself is fine. Bit of mill, a bit of recursion, a big body, a unique companion stipulation that makes deckbuilding fun. I guess I'm a little lukewarm on big commanders and are essentially vanilla after they enter play. You aren't likely to get more than one or two triggers unless a lot of your deck is based around it, so the trigger really needs to be worth it. This one largely is, though I'm not excited overall. I think I'd run it as one of the 99 in my Multifarious deck.
I guess it all comes down to the tension between building your deck around the companion clause or just running it straight in the 99. I don't think the card lacks for potential, I just don't think I'll be jumping through many hoops for it, so my tepid response is largely based on not finding the card interesting enough to build around. It's similar to how I just don't like Sharuum, obviously a good card, just not impressive enough for me to build a deck for.
It isn't an interaction - the point is that Void Winnower just kills the deck straight out. Void Winnower literally reads "You may not play any spells in a Gyruda Deck"
Only if you want to use the companion ability.
Make a normal deck with it as a normal commander and be fine.
You want the extra free card? It's fair that a 9-cost card can shut you down
(i mean, Iona was unbanned in this format for so many years....)
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
It isn't an interaction - the point is that Void Winnower just kills the deck straight out. Void Winnower literally reads "You may not play any spells in a Gyruda Deck"
Only if you want to use the companion ability.
Make a normal deck with it as a normal commander and be fine.
You want the extra free card? It's fair that a 9-cost card can shut you down
(i mean, Iona was unbanned in this format for so many years....)
To be clear, I'm on the pro companion side of this argument, was just explaining why some players may feel that the Winnower trumps that decision. If Void Winnower is killing me, I've done something wrong.
Theres plenty of even mana counterspells that can protect this deck from void winnower, one of them being pact.
Youre in blue/black and can potentially be wiped out to winnower, are you really plopping this guy into play without a plan?
ah, but the thing is if all your control is even costed and Void winnower comes out when you can't counter it then you aren't playing any spells till it's off the battlefield. Now, honestly, somebody is going to path that thing pretty quickly so I'm not too worried about that piece but this seems to be the red flag.
Can the trigger out run the “shuffle your graveyard” trigger before you get ahead of yourself
The reanimate is part of the mill trigger, you have to resolve the whole thing before you start resolving anything else. So the titan(presuming it's an old one not a new one) hits your bin, it's trigger will go on the stack, but then Gyruda's trigger finishes resolving, allowing you to reanimate it. Then your yard will shuffle.
Yeah... and? winnower interact with your opponents' cards
It isn't an interaction - the point is that Void Winnower just kills the deck straight out. Void Winnower literally reads "You may not play any spells in a Gyruda Deck"
Yeah, and so why would Winnower get banned because it is good against decks built around using this card?
Anyway, this card is sweet. Even if I don't want to make the deckbuilding sacrifices to play this as a companion, just having some number of even-cost creatures to get value from his ability is probably easy to do. Like I would 100% slot this into my milling-Mimeoplasm commander deck, even though I can't use this as a companion.
Theres plenty of even mana counterspells that can protect this deck from void winnower, one of them being pact.
Youre in blue/black and can potentially be wiped out to winnower, are you really plopping this guy into play without a plan?
ah, but the thing is if all your control is even costed and Void winnower comes out when you can't counter it then you aren't playing any spells till it's off the battlefield. Now, honestly, somebody is going to path that thing pretty quickly so I'm not too worried about that piece but this seems to be the red flag.
I don't really think that's a fair argument. You can't predict everything all the time. And sometimes you can't leave counter mana up or had to use it to stop something else equally bad. I think the argument against Void Winnower needing to be banned or whatever is that it's a 9 mana card that screws over the tiniest possible subsection of decks imaginable. Not decks with this at the helm, but ones that have it in a special slot outside of the deck that requires a special deckbuild. It's not really reasonable to call out a single card, that already doesn't see a ton of play(it's in a whopping 3% of commander decks) that stops a single cards super weird new effect. Not to mention it probably wont actually shut you off for that long considering your opponents are not going to like a Void Winnower sitting across from them either and they will get rid of it.
It's like I play a 3 card infinite combo that goes from winning the game to losing the game if a single opponent has a Fog. But that doesn't mean I think something will have to be done about Fog.
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Gigan seems a bit too even here...
Source: @Wizards_MagicEUon Twitter
not so fast I like a word with you
(Actually it might get banned because of the kraken)
How on earth is Gigan a kraken besides the back fin
I don't get the interaction
Did you read the companion claus
I've always enjoyed cute little touches like that.
The card itself is fine. Bit of mill, a bit of recursion, a big body, a unique companion stipulation that makes deckbuilding fun. I guess I'm a little lukewarm on big commanders and are essentially vanilla after they enter play. You aren't likely to get more than one or two triggers unless a lot of your deck is based around it, so the trigger really needs to be worth it. This one largely is, though I'm not excited overall. I think I'd run it as one of the 99 in my Multifarious deck.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Yeah... and? winnower interact with your opponents' cards
Just keep chaining the Clone(which often cost 4 mana) and flicker stuff like the Restoration Angel)
then keep going and milling everyone in the process, till you get something even better at the end of the process (like a Craterhoof Behemoth or Razaketh, the Foulblooded, or the Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, with Triskelion and Walking Ballista to combo win on the spot).
In a "casual" deck that can work with the restriction, this is just a value card that can combo win.
In any more competitive deck, you have way too many strong 1 mana cards that you cant ever give up for this.
----
Very niche card, but theres bunch of room to make it work.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
What about the legend rule? You can’t infinite because it’s not among the milled because you have to sac the clone one
It isn't an interaction - the point is that Void Winnower just kills the deck straight out. Void Winnower literally reads "You may not play any spells in a Gyruda Deck"
I mean this fits right into my Wrexial, the Risen Deep deck that already runs Thassa, Deep-Dwelling, Covetous Urge, Memory Plunder,and Gonti, Lord of Luxury. The cards I'd being sad to remove are Mnemonic Betrayal, Thief of Sanity, and Praetor's Grasp; but all of the blink-effects making Gyruda, Doom of Depths reusable make it worth it in my eyes. I still get to keep Deadeye Navigator and Fblthp, the Lost, so it's all good. =)
I just mean to play all the clones that are even and keep milling them to copy your Kraken.
Yes it will die (except for Jaces clone) but you keep milling everyone, and if anybody hits something to flicker this guy, keep going, free creature.
Might be interesting to build a deck around, could even be worth playing without the Companion in mind.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
I don’t think that’s a valid reason to ban a card as Rhyperior originally suggested.
I guess it all comes down to the tension between building your deck around the companion clause or just running it straight in the 99. I don't think the card lacks for potential, I just don't think I'll be jumping through many hoops for it, so my tepid response is largely based on not finding the card interesting enough to build around. It's similar to how I just don't like Sharuum, obviously a good card, just not impressive enough for me to build a deck for.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Only if you want to use the companion ability.
Make a normal deck with it as a normal commander and be fine.
You want the extra free card? It's fair that a 9-cost card can shut you down
(i mean, Iona was unbanned in this format for so many years....)
To be clear, I'm on the pro companion side of this argument, was just explaining why some players may feel that the Winnower trumps that decision. If Void Winnower is killing me, I've done something wrong.
Youre in blue/black and can potentially be wiped out to winnower, are you really plopping this guy into play without a plan?
ah, but the thing is if all your control is even costed and Void winnower comes out when you can't counter it then you aren't playing any spells till it's off the battlefield. Now, honestly, somebody is going to path that thing pretty quickly so I'm not too worried about that piece but this seems to be the red flag.
Put him in a deck with lots of clones, keep cloning him until you find Ulamog/Kozilek, reanimate them, gg
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Can the trigger out run the “shuffle your graveyard” trigger before you get ahead of yourself
The reanimate is part of the mill trigger, you have to resolve the whole thing before you start resolving anything else. So the titan(presuming it's an old one not a new one) hits your bin, it's trigger will go on the stack, but then Gyruda's trigger finishes resolving, allowing you to reanimate it. Then your yard will shuffle.
Yeah, and so why would Winnower get banned because it is good against decks built around using this card?
Anyway, this card is sweet. Even if I don't want to make the deckbuilding sacrifices to play this as a companion, just having some number of even-cost creatures to get value from his ability is probably easy to do. Like I would 100% slot this into my milling-Mimeoplasm commander deck, even though I can't use this as a companion.
If you let it resolve you played sloppy.
I don't really think that's a fair argument. You can't predict everything all the time. And sometimes you can't leave counter mana up or had to use it to stop something else equally bad. I think the argument against Void Winnower needing to be banned or whatever is that it's a 9 mana card that screws over the tiniest possible subsection of decks imaginable. Not decks with this at the helm, but ones that have it in a special slot outside of the deck that requires a special deckbuild. It's not really reasonable to call out a single card, that already doesn't see a ton of play(it's in a whopping 3% of commander decks) that stops a single cards super weird new effect. Not to mention it probably wont actually shut you off for that long considering your opponents are not going to like a Void Winnower sitting across from them either and they will get rid of it.
It's like I play a 3 card infinite combo that goes from winning the game to losing the game if a single opponent has a Fog. But that doesn't mean I think something will have to be done about Fog.