I really don't understand what people are concerned about over Companion. Right now the Companion ability we've seen is a very simple stipulation. The deck must have cards 3cmc or greater. Why would you need to check someone's deck before-hand? If they play a card that breaks the rules, you'll obviously know. It just mean you should make sure your opponent running this Companion card doesn't cast a spells of 2cmc or less. That seems easy to see. There's no way a card that doesn't meet the rule can get played without you ever knowing.
I foresee a lot of "Woops! Didn't notice that" when it comes to deckbuilding as someone didn't do it on purpose so their deck has to change entirely in the middle of a tournament. At that point is it considered a game loss? Cheating? There's potentially a lot that could go wrong.
In Arena/MTGO it'll be super easy to build a deck with a Companion, but physically I can already tell you there will be a lot of people calling "Judge!".
It seems a little over complicated for the physical game when they've said why they won't do Threshold because of the needing to remember the number seven in your graveyard and we've had a deck in Modern literally banned for making tournaments take longer, and I imagine everyone calling for a judge to check the deck would only slow things down further and make things to remember just as annoying.
I'm not saying it's a bad mechanic, but that it's rather poorly executed in the physical game.
I really don't understand what people are concerned about over Companion. Right now the Companion ability we've seen is a very simple stipulation. The deck must have cards 3cmc or greater. Why would you need to check someone's deck before-hand? If they play a card that breaks the rules, you'll obviously know. It just mean you should make sure your opponent running this Companion card doesn't cast a spells of 2cmc or less. That seems easy to see. There's no way a card that doesn't meet the rule can get played without you ever knowing.
Its of more concern for limited.
You have to know your CC of your deck.
If you sideboard you also have to make sure you dont accidently put a card in with a lower CC.
Its bothering a lot and extremely unnecessary layer to the game.
----
The cards clearly pretty broken in Limited too, so if you have it, you pretty much want to make sure you dont have stuff that costs less than 3 (especially with cycling in the set to fill that role of cycling to your 3+ drops).
----
The mechanic on its own is not bad, especially for constructed formats, so this would be the PERFECT inclusion in a preconstructed deck like a commander precon, that actually works with it in mind.
In Limited however, this kind of mechanic is a massive hassle.
Its the kind of mechanic that messes with limited in a way just like double faced cards do, they shouldnt put these things in limited product, which would instantly fix the issues with them (as in any constructed deck its much less of an problem to make sure you absolutely know your decklist).
Super surprised Companion is not the commander mechanic. It sounds like a super unfun mechanic for FNM Standard. Every time you sit down to play, a judge has to stop by and assess your deck.
The first dude is just counter palooza. Its going to be a nightmare to track and will piss a lot of people off because of the potential to inadvertantly cheat in a muddied boardstate.
I kind of like the copy dinosaur, kind of. I dont think hes very good but will make for some fun plays sometimes
Im not a fan of the do x for each time youve cast your commander mechanic, especially on a nongreen commander who requires 3 colors and costs more than 2 mana.
Mutate the mutate guy might be okay, im just not a fan of a mechanic that turns creatures into auras
And the cycling duder, idk i see some obnoxious decks being created from that and i think that one has some potential i guess
I should say, if you can get Companion to work, then it looks very cool. Almost the spiritual successor to the unreleased Forbidden mechanic which I've been intrigued by for a while.
I would still like to know what the thinking is around checking it though. Does WotC just not think people will check very often? Will there be a special rule for it of some kind? Something else?
The rules committee pre-banned the Elemental Otter.
PLEASE TAKE OVER THE BANLIST WOTC! THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!
Lol a stronger dualcaster mage that has no drawback and can be casted from outside the game.
I really wonder why they are banning it...
I hope they'll ban all the companions, especially the "cast from outside the game" part. Looks like partner with more steroids and more <snip>
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
You kinda hit the nail about why it's gonna be a pain. If the opponent plays cards that break the rule no big deal BUT you opponent can also play in a way to not give you that information and so you have no idea. Let's take the dual caster here and say your opponent has not cast cards with the same name how can you be sure the deck is singleton (except in singleton formats obviously).
The rules committee pre-banned the Elemental Otter.
PLEASE TAKE OVER THE BANLIST WOTC! THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!
...You're joking right? This is really a surprise to you?
Let's go over the reasons why this card, if it would work as they're suggesting in commander, would be problematic:
1. The "Companion" clause is literally a restriction already imposed by the Commander format - so there's absolutely zero downside to running this.
2. It's the 8th card "in hand" without it effecting your deck size, because it's "not a sideboard card", but it's in exile and you can cast it with normal timing restrictions.
3. Functions as card 101 in literally every Red/Blue and Red/Blue/+ deck ever. It's the definition of an "auto-include." It's solid enough as a 3/2 with flash that doesn't impact your hand size.
4. Your opponent's can't make you discard it.
5. It's never a dead card in hand.
6. It's ripe for abuse excluding the above.
My argument is the rules committee just blanket banned the otter. You cannot use it in the 99 or as a commander. Because they feel the "banned as a commander" list was too confusing. It would be so easy to just say "You cant use the otter as a companion". But they think everyone is a retard.
Yeah one less card to combo on turn 4, who cares? Find something else to pubstomp with.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
This will get lost but hopefully someone will see.
Maro said this is a monster set with wedge elements.
Also M20 just seems to have gotten better with this set.
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"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
My argument is the rules committee just blanket banned the otter. You cannot use it in the 99 or as a commander. Because they feel the "banned as a commander" list was too confusing. It would be so easy to just say "You cant use the otter as a companion". But they think everyone is a retard.
They still allow Flash in the format, so you can really just ignore what the "rules committee" says and play the game as you want to.
So just play the otter without companion, its that simple (and if all the people you play are on the same intellectual level, that will be totally fine).
I see alot of people freaking out over Companion and deck checks. I think everyone is missing the point here.
Unless I'm misinterpreting it, the Companion restriction means that it can be cast from your sideboard (outside the game) if you meet X condition. If I mainboard these guys, I'm not bound by deck building restrictions. So if you want to main board these, I assume you ignore the Companion clause.
Basically, when you Companion these creatures, they are your Pikachu that doesnt go inside a Pokeball (your deck) that you can cast once for free but you have to build your deck a certain way to make that happen.
The rules committee pre-banned the Elemental Otter.
PLEASE TAKE OVER THE BANLIST WOTC! THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!
Lol a stronger dualcaster mage that has no drawback and can be casted from outside the game.
I really wonder why they are banning it...
I hope they'll ban all the companions, especially the "cast from outside the game" part. Looks like partner with more steroids and more retarded
My argument is the rules committee just blanket banned the otter. You cannot use it in the 99 or as a commander. Because they feel the "banned as a commander" list was too confusing. It would be so easy to just say "You cant use the otter as a companion". But they think everyone is a retard.
How would that not be confusing to players, especially new ones?
Heres a spiffy new card, but in commander well you ignore that ability and shuffle it into your 99 - when no other card functions that way in commander. Removing the companion clause turns it into a dualcaster mage sure, but why stop there? Why not modify other cards to fit that model! Kinda silly to take that approach. I also think youre failing to see just how abuseable this card really can be in the format
The rules committee pre-banned the Elemental Otter.
PLEASE TAKE OVER THE BANLIST WOTC! THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!
Lol a stronger dualcaster mage that has no drawback and can be casted from outside the game.
I really wonder why they are banning it...
I hope they'll ban all the companions, especially the "cast from outside the game" part. Looks like partner with more steroids and more retarded
My argument is the rules committee just blanket banned the otter. You cannot use it in the 99 or as a commander. Because they feel the "banned as a commander" list was too confusing. It would be so easy to just say "You cant use the otter as a companion". But they think everyone is a retard.
Firstly, you might want to check your language before mods arrive.
But secondly, this is a card designed by the design team at WotC. *They* had every opportunity to make it passable, and the reasons cited above are such obvious considerations that it feels like a power play on their part to make players demand that more power be granted to WotC over the format. They have admitted to doing this before with how Extort was worded.
Basically, it's a card which might as well have been made to be banned. Trying to lever it to change those rules (no matter any other problems they might cause) is just taking at face value that it should have existed in the exact form it does in the first place.
For the record, I think the simplified rules for EDH bans are a net positive since that way, in actually playing, people only need to remember one list instead of a set of extra clauses and exceptions that might prompt checking the site when you see a card you know is banned in some form but cannot remember the exact way. Especially if those other lists end up being more than two or three cards long over time.
Agreed. These are some of the worst mechanics they have created in a while. I am not even speaking power level. Mutate is going to be hard for people to understand, and I was already so sick of auras and they invent another bestow mechanic. It is even worse than bestow because at least it wasn't parasitic and could interact with other enchantment related cards. Monstrosity was so much better from an understanding and play standpoint.
And companion. Yes I wanted a mechanic in standard that opens the door for my opponent to check my entire deck each game .
I see alot of people freaking out over Companion and deck checks. I think everyone is missing the point here.
Unless I'm misinterpreting it, the Companion restriction means that it can be cast from your sideboard (outside the game) if you meet X condition. If I mainboard these guys, I'm not bound by deck building restrictions. So if you want to main board these, I assume you ignore the Companion clause.
Basically, when you Companion these creatures, they are your Pikachu that doesnt go inside a Pokeball (your deck) that you can cast once for free but you have to build your deck a certain way to make that happen.
Being able to play them without needing to check for the restriction doesn't really resolve the question though of how you are supposed to handle checking it. I imagine a significant number of players won't bother to check even when they are being used as a companion because they are just playing friendly games and are trusting enough and/or can't be bothered enough to do it. But people will want to check this not an insignificant amount of the time.
They put up a planeswalker guide as told by Vivien and she mentions Narset having been on the plane in a brief section, so this leads more to the idea of Narset leak being real or at least her showing up.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Firstly, I will not censor myself, they are free to delete it if they want. I wasn't calling anyone in specific a retard, just that is how the committee treats us as such.
Secondly, removing banned as a commander has dumbed down the game in a negative way, just like tuck rule. You are now punished for building in such a way to prevent ridiculous shenanigans. Tucking a commander was an effective way to punish poor deck building. And Outright banning cards that are fine in the 99 (Braids, Rofellos) has led to a more padded playpen of an environment as opposed to the battlecruiser magic that EDH was intended to be.
I disagree with all of your points, the rules committee disagrees with all of your points, and the dramatic surge in format popularity since those decisions were made means the players also disagree with your points.
I'm glad cycling is back and they are still trying to find ways of making it feel fresh and not just tacked on utility. Kinda wish the triggers were not just off cycling, but cycling as well as discarding (like a handful of Amonket cards) to give it a bit less of a parasitic feel, but in fairness there are a lot of cycling cards in the game at this point so it's less of an issue.
I don't think I like ability counters. At all. I like the concept of giving an ability permanently but I think the physical tracking feels clunky. It's not the end of the world, but I'm just cautious of how it'll play out.
That actually sums up how I feel about much of what we've seen: looks clunky at first glance, and I want to see how it plays out in practice before *****ting on things too hard. But I am bothered that when I look at the spoiled cards my first thought is "Wait, how will that play out in reality?" Not about card interactions, but just tracking play. It may end up just fine in practice, and I hope it does, but my uncertainty is coloring my thoughts on these new cards.
I don't how I feel about companion or mutate yet, mostly because of what I just outlined. I think I like mutate a lot, but I just need to see how it physically plays. Companion, though, I don't think I like outside the flavor which is adorably Pokemon mixed with Godzilla (I seriously can't overstate how much the flavor makes me smile, I hope there's a card that I at all care to play).
I do dig the wedge aspects, and the real wedges with the common enemy as the primary color and the two allies the subordinate colors. Yay! Been waiting literal decades for this. I also dig the flavor, the wacky creature types, and the overall feel of the legends. Vivien and Lukka both seem good, and I love them exploring the empathy and emotionality aspects of red.
I'm into this far more than I was Eldraine or Theros Beyond Death, so that's something.
Looking back at this in a deeper way, I have to say that some of the revealled mechanics are disappointing and will lead to a paper Magic brouhaha. Mutate itself is cool but can't say I'm very...amused.
We'll see. More to be revealled as the days go on so hopefully the returning mechanics will make up for it.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
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I foresee a lot of "Woops! Didn't notice that" when it comes to deckbuilding as someone didn't do it on purpose so their deck has to change entirely in the middle of a tournament. At that point is it considered a game loss? Cheating? There's potentially a lot that could go wrong.
In Arena/MTGO it'll be super easy to build a deck with a Companion, but physically I can already tell you there will be a lot of people calling "Judge!".
It seems a little over complicated for the physical game when they've said why they won't do Threshold because of the needing to remember the number seven in your graveyard and we've had a deck in Modern literally banned for making tournaments take longer, and I imagine everyone calling for a judge to check the deck would only slow things down further and make things to remember just as annoying.
I'm not saying it's a bad mechanic, but that it's rather poorly executed in the physical game.
Its of more concern for limited.
You have to know your CC of your deck.
If you sideboard you also have to make sure you dont accidently put a card in with a lower CC.
Its bothering a lot and extremely unnecessary layer to the game.
----
The cards clearly pretty broken in Limited too, so if you have it, you pretty much want to make sure you dont have stuff that costs less than 3 (especially with cycling in the set to fill that role of cycling to your 3+ drops).
----
The mechanic on its own is not bad, especially for constructed formats, so this would be the PERFECT inclusion in a preconstructed deck like a commander precon, that actually works with it in mind.
In Limited however, this kind of mechanic is a massive hassle.
Its the kind of mechanic that messes with limited in a way just like double faced cards do, they shouldnt put these things in limited product, which would instantly fix the issues with them (as in any constructed deck its much less of an problem to make sure you absolutely know your decklist).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
These are awful.
The first dude is just counter palooza. Its going to be a nightmare to track and will piss a lot of people off because of the potential to inadvertantly cheat in a muddied boardstate.
I kind of like the copy dinosaur, kind of. I dont think hes very good but will make for some fun plays sometimes
Im not a fan of the do x for each time youve cast your commander mechanic, especially on a nongreen commander who requires 3 colors and costs more than 2 mana.
Mutate the mutate guy might be okay, im just not a fan of a mechanic that turns creatures into auras
And the cycling duder, idk i see some obnoxious decks being created from that and i think that one has some potential i guess
I would still like to know what the thinking is around checking it though. Does WotC just not think people will check very often? Will there be a special rule for it of some kind? Something else?
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Lol a stronger dualcaster mage that has no drawback and can be casted from outside the game.
I really wonder why they are banning it...
I hope they'll ban all the companions, especially the "cast from outside the game" part. Looks like partner with more steroids and more <snip>
(The krakens companion is even cmc)
I get the feeling the Godzilla series (likely the Box toppers) will not be available in the Collector's Edition boosters...
...You're joking right? This is really a surprise to you?
Let's go over the reasons why this card, if it would work as they're suggesting in commander, would be problematic:
1. The "Companion" clause is literally a restriction already imposed by the Commander format - so there's absolutely zero downside to running this.
2. It's the 8th card "in hand" without it effecting your deck size, because it's "not a sideboard card", but it's in exile and you can cast it with normal timing restrictions.
3. Functions as card 101 in literally every Red/Blue and Red/Blue/+ deck ever. It's the definition of an "auto-include." It's solid enough as a 3/2 with flash that doesn't impact your hand size.
4. Your opponent's can't make you discard it.
5. It's never a dead card in hand.
6. It's ripe for abuse excluding the above.
How is all of that not enough to ban it?
Yeah one less card to combo on turn 4, who cares? Find something else to pubstomp with.
Maro said this is a monster set with wedge elements.
Also M20 just seems to have gotten better with this set.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
They still allow Flash in the format, so you can really just ignore what the "rules committee" says and play the game as you want to.
So just play the otter without companion, its that simple (and if all the people you play are on the same intellectual level, that will be totally fine).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Unless I'm misinterpreting it, the Companion restriction means that it can be cast from your sideboard (outside the game) if you meet X condition. If I mainboard these guys, I'm not bound by deck building restrictions. So if you want to main board these, I assume you ignore the Companion clause.
Basically, when you Companion these creatures, they are your Pikachu that doesnt go inside a Pokeball (your deck) that you can cast once for free but you have to build your deck a certain way to make that happen.
How would that not be confusing to players, especially new ones?
Heres a spiffy new card, but in commander well you ignore that ability and shuffle it into your 99 - when no other card functions that way in commander. Removing the companion clause turns it into a dualcaster mage sure, but why stop there? Why not modify other cards to fit that model! Kinda silly to take that approach. I also think youre failing to see just how abuseable this card really can be in the format
Firstly, you might want to check your language before mods arrive.
But secondly, this is a card designed by the design team at WotC. *They* had every opportunity to make it passable, and the reasons cited above are such obvious considerations that it feels like a power play on their part to make players demand that more power be granted to WotC over the format. They have admitted to doing this before with how Extort was worded.
Basically, it's a card which might as well have been made to be banned. Trying to lever it to change those rules (no matter any other problems they might cause) is just taking at face value that it should have existed in the exact form it does in the first place.
For the record, I think the simplified rules for EDH bans are a net positive since that way, in actually playing, people only need to remember one list instead of a set of extra clauses and exceptions that might prompt checking the site when you see a card you know is banned in some form but cannot remember the exact way. Especially if those other lists end up being more than two or three cards long over time.
And companion. Yes I wanted a mechanic in standard that opens the door for my opponent to check my entire deck each game .
Being able to play them without needing to check for the restriction doesn't really resolve the question though of how you are supposed to handle checking it. I imagine a significant number of players won't bother to check even when they are being used as a companion because they are just playing friendly games and are trusting enough and/or can't be bothered enough to do it. But people will want to check this not an insignificant amount of the time.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I disagree with all of your points, the rules committee disagrees with all of your points, and the dramatic surge in format popularity since those decisions were made means the players also disagree with your points.
The otter is the only companion legednary getting the ban hammer the other ones have a chance
I'm glad cycling is back and they are still trying to find ways of making it feel fresh and not just tacked on utility. Kinda wish the triggers were not just off cycling, but cycling as well as discarding (like a handful of Amonket cards) to give it a bit less of a parasitic feel, but in fairness there are a lot of cycling cards in the game at this point so it's less of an issue.
I don't think I like ability counters. At all. I like the concept of giving an ability permanently but I think the physical tracking feels clunky. It's not the end of the world, but I'm just cautious of how it'll play out.
That actually sums up how I feel about much of what we've seen: looks clunky at first glance, and I want to see how it plays out in practice before *****ting on things too hard. But I am bothered that when I look at the spoiled cards my first thought is "Wait, how will that play out in reality?" Not about card interactions, but just tracking play. It may end up just fine in practice, and I hope it does, but my uncertainty is coloring my thoughts on these new cards.
I don't how I feel about companion or mutate yet, mostly because of what I just outlined. I think I like mutate a lot, but I just need to see how it physically plays. Companion, though, I don't think I like outside the flavor which is adorably Pokemon mixed with Godzilla (I seriously can't overstate how much the flavor makes me smile, I hope there's a card that I at all care to play).
I do dig the wedge aspects, and the real wedges with the common enemy as the primary color and the two allies the subordinate colors. Yay! Been waiting literal decades for this. I also dig the flavor, the wacky creature types, and the overall feel of the legends. Vivien and Lukka both seem good, and I love them exploring the empathy and emotionality aspects of red.
I'm into this far more than I was Eldraine or Theros Beyond Death, so that's something.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa!
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
We'll see. More to be revealled as the days go on so hopefully the returning mechanics will make up for it.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.