Sadly, Haktos always has protection from cmc 1, so he cannot be targeted with Gods Willing.
Oh right, duh. Obvious mistake is obvious.
Disclosure: that was my first thought, as well, and then I reread the card. We do have Center Soul or Feat of Resistance at cmc 2 but the likelihood that your opponent will just happen to have the correct cmc of removal in hand is low enough that this card should prove difficult for them to remove, sweepers notwithstanding (since they don't target). Rather than trying to find neat combos to use to make him absoluately invulnerable, we should probably rely on his inherent effects--those are more than sufficient. Blink effects in white are probably better--not only will reentering the battlefield change the number but the blink means the original spell isn't targeting him any more.
That's why I suggested Brave the Elements. Doesn't target so you can still give him pro any color for W.
And sweepers not targeting is why I suggested the in-color Deafening Clarion and Storm's Wrath. Because while they also don't target, protection prevents all damage. So if you rolled a 2, he's immune to both of those sweepers, otherwise he's immune to one or the other.
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How about Banishing Light? Does the card target, or is the effect a non cmc effect?
You are correct on all the sweepers. However, Banishing Light uses a trigger and, like any ability, the *source* is checked for its characteristics when something is needed to be known. Since the source has a CMC of 3, the trigger can't target something with Pro-CMC3. Same as if the target had Pro-White. Since the source is White, the trigger can't target it.
Sadly, Haktos always has protection from cmc 1, so he cannot be targeted with Gods Willing.
Oh right, duh. Obvious mistake is obvious.
Disclosure: that was my first thought, as well, and then I reread the card. We do have Center Soul or Feat of Resistance at cmc 2 but the likelihood that your opponent will just happen to have the correct cmc of removal in hand is low enough that this card should prove difficult for them to remove, sweepers notwithstanding (since they don't target). Rather than trying to find neat combos to use to make him absoluately invulnerable, we should probably rely on his inherent effects--those are more than sufficient. Blink effects in white are probably better--not only will reentering the battlefield change the number but the blink means the original spell isn't targeting him any more.
That's why I suggested Brave the Elements. Doesn't target so you can still give him pro any color for W.
And sweepers not targeting is why I suggested the in-color Deafening Clarion and Storm's Wrath. Because while they also don't target, protection prevents all damage. So if you rolled a 2, he's immune to both of those sweepers, otherwise he's immune to one or the other.
Yes, I mentioned Deafening Clarion much earlier in the thread.
Just to say: On Standard and Pioneer we have Bonecrusher Giant as the counter for 2 and 3. Also stomp makes this guy die to any block soo if you are playing vs a red deck better never block with this guy.
Just to say: On Standard and Pioneer we have Bonecrusher Giant as the counter for 2 and 3. Also stomp makes this guy die to any block soo if you are playing vs a red deck better never block with this guy.
If the kinds of decks that want to run this guy are blocking with him, something has gone wrong.
Just to say: On Standard and Pioneer we have Bonecrusher Giant as the counter for 2 and 3. Also stomp makes this guy die to any block soo if you are playing vs a red deck better never block with this guy.
The "Protection from cmc" clause still prevents you from using Stomp to target Hektos if the die roll came up as 3 or 4; The damage prevention is irrelevant at that point. If his weakness is 2, then you'd be able to both target and damage Hektos. If you're talking about using Stomp as a sort of Skullcrack effect before using a damage based sweeper, then that could work.
As far as blocking, short of the turn he comes out without haste and without having vigilance somehow, he's not going to be doing a whole lot of blocking.
Just to say: On Standard and Pioneer we have Bonecrusher Giant as the counter for 2 and 3. Also stomp makes this guy die to any block soo if you are playing vs a red deck better never block with this guy.
The "Protection from cmc" clause still prevents you from using Stomp to target Hektos if the die roll came up as 3 or 4; The damage prevention is irrelevant at that point. If his weakness is 2, then you'd be able to both target and damage Hektos. If you're talking about using Stomp as a sort of Skullcrack effect before using a damage based sweeper, then that could work.
As far as blocking, short of the turn he comes out without haste and without having vigilance somehow, he's not going to be doing a whole lot of blocking.
If the CMC is 2 stomp kills, if it is 3 Giant can kill. Also the relevant part of stomp is the "damage can't be prevented this turn" soo any form of damage could kill hin if you use stomp to target any other thing.
And thats the catch he will probably not come with haste (unless you are playing commander) soo until the next turn you may have hin as a blocker, and thats the thing, vs red decks it is probably better to not block with hin (on the turn you played it, before his first attack) if you really need hin attacking.
Just to say: On Standard and Pioneer we have Bonecrusher Giant as the counter for 2 and 3. Also stomp makes this guy die to any block soo if you are playing vs a red deckbetter never block with this guy.
If the kinds of decks that want to run this guy are blocking with him, something has gone wrong.
It is a 4 drop without haste, if you are playing against any red based agroo because of giant you have to pass the chance to block when you play it, thats the thing.
Another thing, if people play Clarion+stomp thats another way to kill (for sure), thats a downside to the Clarion + This guy strategy that someone posted before.
I know people don't like attacky Boros commanders but I think there is some interesting ways to buff him up. Bolster doesn't target and with only 1 toughness he usually will be the one you can bolster. There is also universal protection like Akroma's Blessing and Brave the elements that can fill in the gaps.
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It’s not like they designed this to be a unique Boros commander. This is top down Achilles, which lends itself to Boros colors based on the mythology and MTG color philosophy
I been mulling over this card since he was revealed, and I feel the more elegant solution is just to cut out the RNG part of his text and reworking the protection to have a fixed number. That way you can actually have a unique build around commander. Him effectively having shroud from your auras and equipments, but a gamblers chance he might not, is actually one of the most frustrating things about him, at least Multani, Maro-Sorcerer is kind enough to tell you in advanced instead of yanking your chain.
He isn't elegantly designed and feels like a physical MTGArena card that likely had special animations made for him. The ruling around him feels really awkward and hamfisted, as somehow he has no protection if the result is null even though the protection cares about all CMCs except the chosen number. The absolute fact that he uses a replacement effect instead of just a simple ETB just screams to me that someone tried their hardest to negate the possibility he would have protection from all CMC.
Here is how I would design him:
Haktos the UnscarredWWRR Legendary Creature - Human Warrior (R)
Protection from all converted mana costs except 4.
Haktos the Unscarred attacks each turn if able. 6/1 "Many have sought my weakness, but none have found it."
(Same card but no RNG-nonsense, actually has an interesting build-around concept of 4CMC equipment and auras, encourages opponents to run CMC4 removal and creatures. Still vulnerable to global removal like Toxic Deluge or Wrath of God or just Diabolic Edict. Also lore reference: Dies to Serrated Arrows). Also means that because he has no RNG, you can properly set him up with a Sanctum Prelate instead of holding off on the Sanctum Prelate until the RNG number is known.
I been mulling over this card since he was revealed, and I feel the more elegant solution is just to cut out the RNG part of his text and reworking the protection to have a fixed number.
I disagree 100%. As the article itself says the reason why the CMC is random is so that he isn't metagamed out of a format by everyone simply opting for, say, Drag to the Underworld instead of whatever removal spell you'd play otherwise. Yes this might not be that relevant in tournament Magic, because it's extremely unlikely he's good enough to be hated on, and even if he is, there are still other ways to sideboard hate for him, but the vast majority of Magic is kitchen table and casual Commander, building a cool deck one day and seeing your entire play group killing your deck two days later by bringing in 4 CMC removal just feels awful.
Plus, no offense but your card is just boring, even by Boros legends standards.
The randomness is what lets this be red as well as let them push him the way they did.
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I been mulling over this card since he was revealed, and I feel the more elegant solution is just to cut out the RNG part of his text and reworking the protection to have a fixed number.
I disagree 100%. As the article itself says the reason why the CMC is random is so that he isn't metagamed out of a format by everyone simply opting for, say, Drag to the Underworld instead of whatever removal spell you'd play otherwise.
Oh no, a card getting metagamed out of a format. I'll alert the media.
Yes this might not be that relevant in tournament Magic, because it's extremely unlikely he's good enough to be hated on, and even if he is, there are still other ways to sideboard hate for him, but the vast majority of Magic is kitchen table and casual Commander, building a cool deck one day and seeing your entire play group killing your deck two days later by bringing in 4 CMC removal just feels awful.
Salty players don't get invited back to the table if they make a stink about interaction.
Plus, no offense but your card is just boring, even by Boros legends standards.
The randomness is what lets this be red as well as let them push him the way they did.
Haktos's ability basically amounts to rolling a 1d6, treating three of the results as the same, or a 1d4 with 1 being the auto-reroll result. Which what cards have rolling dice to determine a result again? Oh yeah, its the silver-bordered cards. Which means his ability is literally from an un-set. The only way they could print Achilles is putting a silver-bordered effect on him in black-border.
Oh no, a card getting metagamed out of a format. I'll alert the media.
E-mail WotC about your brilliance in card design instead, see if they pick you up for GDS. It's their reasoning for Haktos' design, not mine.
Salty players don't get invited back to the table if they make a stink about interaction.
The whole point of Haktos and, hell, Protection as a mechanic, is to deny interaction. This is not the issue because there's literally nothing wrong with protecting your cards from interaction, just as well as there's nothing wrong with interaction itself, but there IS a problem in creating a miserable gameplay experience by getting a casual deck hated on by your playgroup with cards that they were already going to play. This isn't playing 4x Rest in Peace maindeck because that one guy plays Vintage Manaless Dredge, this is playing 4x Tale's End because that one guy just built some janky Kethis, the Hidden Hand. You're just going to justify bad gameplay with "if you don't like it, get out"?
As opposed to? The exact same thing plus 4 CMC Voltron? You seem to be deluding yourself on thinking you created a Commander archetype instead of coming to terms with the fact you polished a turd by spitting on it.
I been mulling over this card since he was revealed, and I feel the more elegant solution is just to cut out the RNG part of his text and reworking the protection to have a fixed number.
The randomness is what lets this be red as well as let them push him the way they did.
And thats what makes him a dollar-bin rare. The best cards in magic don't rely on randomness.
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Oh no, a card getting metagamed out of a format. I'll alert the media.
E-mail WotC about your brilliance in card design instead, see if they pick you up for GDS. It's their reasoning for Haktos' design, not mine.
You're the one who used that as a defense of the card.
You're just going to justify bad gameplay with "if you don't like it, get out"?
You have me all wrong, I don't justify bad gameplay like that. I justify bad behavior from players like that. Salty players don't get invited back to the table.
As opposed to? The exact same thing plus 4 CMC Voltron? You seem to be deluding yourself on thinking you created a Commander archetype instead of coming to terms with the fact you polished a turd by spitting on it.
Technically I did, 4cmc-matters. Also its not the same thing as its not RNG.
The randomness is what lets this be red as well as let them push him the way they did.
Haktos's ability basically amounts to rolling a 1d6, treating three of the results as the same, or a 1d4 with 1 being the auto-reroll result. Which what cards have rolling dice to determine a result again? Oh yeah, its the silver-bordered cards. Which means his ability is literally from an un-set. The only way they could print Achilles is putting a silver-bordered effect on him in black-border.
Which you are in agreement with.
Oh you mean from the set that was said to be a testing grounds for ideas that they might use just not sure quite how to execute?
As said the randomness helps the card not be pin-pointed down for removal and such and imo help the card and ability feel red.
I been mulling over this card since he was revealed, and I feel the more elegant solution is just to cut out the RNG part of his text and reworking the protection to have a fixed number.
The randomness is what lets this be red as well as let them push him the way they did.
And thats what makes him a dollar-bin rare. The best cards in magic don't rely on randomness.
As others have this, this card is most similar to Progenitus or True-name but with a slim weakness that your opponent can't predict. While I don't think this will be the next banned card in every format I wouldn't right it off quickly.
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And sweepers not targeting is why I suggested the in-color Deafening Clarion and Storm's Wrath. Because while they also don't target, protection prevents all damage. So if you rolled a 2, he's immune to both of those sweepers, otherwise he's immune to one or the other.
How about Banishing Light? Does the card target, or is the effect a non cmc effect?
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Yes, I mentioned Deafening Clarion much earlier in the thread.
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If the kinds of decks that want to run this guy are blocking with him, something has gone wrong.
The "Protection from cmc" clause still prevents you from using Stomp to target Hektos if the die roll came up as 3 or 4; The damage prevention is irrelevant at that point. If his weakness is 2, then you'd be able to both target and damage Hektos. If you're talking about using Stomp as a sort of Skullcrack effect before using a damage based sweeper, then that could work.
As far as blocking, short of the turn he comes out without haste and without having vigilance somehow, he's not going to be doing a whole lot of blocking.
If the CMC is 2 stomp kills, if it is 3 Giant can kill. Also the relevant part of stomp is the "damage can't be prevented this turn" soo any form of damage could kill hin if you use stomp to target any other thing.
And thats the catch he will probably not come with haste (unless you are playing commander) soo until the next turn you may have hin as a blocker, and thats the thing, vs red decks it is probably better to not block with hin (on the turn you played it, before his first attack) if you really need hin attacking.
It is a 4 drop without haste, if you are playing against any red based agroo because of giant you have to pass the chance to block when you play it, thats the thing.
Another thing, if people play Clarion+stomp thats another way to kill (for sure), thats a downside to the Clarion + This guy strategy that someone posted before.
Over half my playgroup thought the same thing the day he was spoiled
Hes much stronger if you interpret things correctly but its just worded like sloppy ******** and confuses everyone apparently.
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The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
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|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
He isn't elegantly designed and feels like a physical MTGArena card that likely had special animations made for him. The ruling around him feels really awkward and hamfisted, as somehow he has no protection if the result is null even though the protection cares about all CMCs except the chosen number. The absolute fact that he uses a replacement effect instead of just a simple ETB just screams to me that someone tried their hardest to negate the possibility he would have protection from all CMC.
Here is how I would design him:
Legendary Creature - Human Warrior (R)
Protection from all converted mana costs except 4.
Haktos the Unscarred attacks each turn if able.
6/1
"Many have sought my weakness, but none have found it."
(Same card but no RNG-nonsense, actually has an interesting build-around concept of 4CMC equipment and auras, encourages opponents to run CMC4 removal and creatures. Still vulnerable to global removal like Toxic Deluge or Wrath of God or just Diabolic Edict. Also lore reference: Dies to Serrated Arrows). Also means that because he has no RNG, you can properly set him up with a Sanctum Prelate instead of holding off on the Sanctum Prelate until the RNG number is known.
It was always his heel, the weak point never changed
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I disagree 100%. As the article itself says the reason why the CMC is random is so that he isn't metagamed out of a format by everyone simply opting for, say, Drag to the Underworld instead of whatever removal spell you'd play otherwise. Yes this might not be that relevant in tournament Magic, because it's extremely unlikely he's good enough to be hated on, and even if he is, there are still other ways to sideboard hate for him, but the vast majority of Magic is kitchen table and casual Commander, building a cool deck one day and seeing your entire play group killing your deck two days later by bringing in 4 CMC removal just feels awful.
Plus, no offense but your card is just boring, even by Boros legends standards.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Salty players don't get invited back to the table if they make a stink about interaction.
Chalice of the Void and Sanctum Prelate to cover his weakness, then run stuff like True Conviction and Dictate of the Twin Gods and Gratuitous Violence to make him punch harder. That is how you build the actual Haktos. It is that dirt simple and boring.
Which you are in agreement with.
The whole point of Haktos and, hell, Protection as a mechanic, is to deny interaction. This is not the issue because there's literally nothing wrong with protecting your cards from interaction, just as well as there's nothing wrong with interaction itself, but there IS a problem in creating a miserable gameplay experience by getting a casual deck hated on by your playgroup with cards that they were already going to play. This isn't playing 4x Rest in Peace maindeck because that one guy plays Vintage Manaless Dredge, this is playing 4x Tale's End because that one guy just built some janky Kethis, the Hidden Hand. You're just going to justify bad gameplay with "if you don't like it, get out"?
As opposed to? The exact same thing plus 4 CMC Voltron? You seem to be deluding yourself on thinking you created a Commander archetype instead of coming to terms with the fact you polished a turd by spitting on it.
And thats what makes him a dollar-bin rare. The best cards in magic don't rely on randomness.
Shine a light upon this night of otherworldly fiends
Odin's might be your guide, divorce you from the sane
Hammer's way will have its say, rise up in their name
Scratching hag, you rake your claws, gnash your crooked teeth
You've taken slaves like ocean waves, now feel the ocean seethe
- Children of the Elder Gods by Poets of the Fall
You have me all wrong, I don't justify bad gameplay like that. I justify bad behavior from players like that. Salty players don't get invited back to the table.
Technically I did, 4cmc-matters. Also its not the same thing as its not RNG.
Oh you mean from the set that was said to be a testing grounds for ideas that they might use just not sure quite how to execute?
As said the randomness helps the card not be pin-pointed down for removal and such and imo help the card and ability feel red.
As others have this, this card is most similar to Progenitus or True-name but with a slim weakness that your opponent can't predict. While I don't think this will be the next banned card in every format I wouldn't right it off quickly.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"