Supposedly the Eldraine arc is part of a "larger story arc," as per the Wiki page, so I found it a bit odd to see how/where Theros II fits into the scheme of things. The nore I think about it, the more I think it's like one of those Supernatural filler episodes: They did it for the lolz with no direct consequence to the story as a whole (Supernatural Scratchy Curse? Pffft). Unless Ikoria lends itself to some magical (!) storyline chapter related to that in Eldraine, I can provably gather that Zendikar III probably will have a similar result too.
Welcome to your MTG "Filler" episode. Sorry Tiro.
Edit: I think we're in a lull period right now. They're coming off of one of their biggest storyline arcs that spanned a decade so I think they are allowed to have some lore down time.
'buster
This is jumping the gun. We don't know what happens kinda hard to say its filler or not.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
We could...but that would involve WotC hiring people based on merit and not solely on their gender and/or ethnicity to check a box for forced inclusivity and diversity.
Hell we used to have great writing before the Hasbro acquisition and for some time after it. Then they dropped novels. And now were at the point where their dropping lore altogether.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
At first I thought this was gonna be fine, but wow, not even short stories?
WotC’s really been going downhill in terms of story. First there’s the rushed Dominaria, then some decent, if underwhelming, stories in GRN block, then a crappily written novel, then another, then an ebook which is essentially paywalling the story. And now, we’re not even getting a story for Theros 2, a block that really needs it to tie up some loose ends?
Heck, it would’ve been cool to even see short stories like Dreams of the City, but we don’t even have that now. We’re in a golden age of Magic - sales are high, Arena’s doing great, the formats are fun despite the brokenness of Eldraine. And WotC’s throwing Vorthoses a giant middle finger.
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Vorthos and maker of bad custom cards. Dimir rules.
I think MTG has become a victim of capitalism gone wrong. The Hasbro model appears to be “create more product to generate more revenue, invest less in the game”
Firing Kelly Digges, getting rid of short stories online, Kelman and Weisman, and now this are all a sign that MTG has entered Yugioh/Konami territory by becoming a dispassionate cash cow with only short term gain as the priority. It’s like a burning meteor at this point. Bright and alarming only to fizzle out in time.
Of all the lore, of all the opportunity to abandon. This isn’t even about Theros at this point. It’s really a sign of the times. The magic brand WILL be run into the ground for profit. If only there was a way out for the company. Hasbro relying on MTG for the stock market game has ruined it and Kelman is outright Malignant cancer Spreading via lymph and hematogenously until every organ is a poisoned slog of tumorous death seriously f that guy
I guess elspeth being decidedly female wasn’t a good enough story for our new LORE Assassin
Personally I'm leaning to something going on in house we aren't seeing yet. The backlash (and thus no spending of $$$0 over forsaken and the mixed reviews on novels and the comic book flopping hard core isn't a good look for company sales. Kelmen and his team are in real hot water to the point that the other branches of the company as well as Weismen throwing them under the bus. They where saying they wanted to try and win awards for their lore, as their art and card do, and so far its been a huge step down.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
We could...but that would involve WotC hiring people based on merit and not solely on their gender and/or ethnicity to check a box for forced inclusivity and diversity.
Oh, come on dude. Don't start with that whole tirade here. Can you put your favourite toy away for just five minutes please?
Gotta be honest, the war of the spark novel is the worst magic related fiction I've read, and I've read quite a bit. It's put me off of checking out the wildered quest or forsaken and frankly anything else until they signal a clear change from before. Bring back Alison Luhrs and everyone on the web article team that did amonkhet, the online short stories were consistently decent.
I agree with the quality of story complaints. I do care about the story though. If I'm being honest, I liked when the creative team did the stories every week. They were fun reads and the perfect size to be digestable. Just a shame we aren't even getting that this time . . .
We could...but that would involve WotC hiring people based on merit and not solely on their gender and/or ethnicity to check a box for forced inclusivity and diversity.
Oh, come on dude. Don't start with that whole tirade here. Can you put your favourite toy away for just five minutes please?
Oh your right... i forgot that only WotC employees can say whatever they want on company time that has nothing to do with the game. But here on a free forum people cant voice concerns because it doesn’t agree with WotC.
I guess continuing to ignore it will totally make it go away...
I will say i surprised you didn’t just report me to the forum masters like they want you to.
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I do find War of the Spark revealing lore with each preview cards rather fascinating, the way it goes from beginning of invasion towards the end, how Gideon and other PWs battled Dreadhorde, was pretty well done, reminds me of Tempest -> Apocalypse era. Perhaps they are doing the same here?
We could...but that would involve WotC hiring people based on merit and not solely on their gender and/or ethnicity to check a box for forced inclusivity and diversity.
Oh, come on dude. Don't start with that whole tirade here. Can you put your favourite toy away for just five minutes please?
Oh your right... i forgot that only WotC employees can say whatever they want on company time that has nothing to do with the game. But here on a free forum people cant voice concerns because it doesn’t agree with WotC.
I guess continuing to ignore it will totally make it go away...
I will say i surprised you didn’t just report me to the forum masters like they want you to.
Is it about that time for another giant, thread-derailing political argument to rear its ugly head on MTGS? Yes? No?
Ya think maybe your claim that diversity hires entails hiring for diversity strictly over merit is, I dunno, a stand-in for your more honest position that you just don't want diversity to exist at all? Oh you're right... I forgot the immutable law of nature that only white guys can be good writers.
Just out of curiosity, what's your explanation for when a bad MTG novel comes out which was written by a white guy? Like... most of them, even? Or is it just the case of the world working in mysterious ways?
I agree with the quality of story complaints. I do care about the story though. If I'm being honest, I liked when the creative team did the stories every week. They were fun reads and the perfect size to be digestable. Just a shame we aren't even getting that this time . . .
The story articles were pretty good. They were apparently very popular articles. They might have been high upkeep for little financial return for WotC though, and although that's unfortunate, you can't really fault them for stopping if that was the reason. If that was a problem, maybe they could just release less of them though?
We could...but that would involve WotC hiring people based on merit and not solely on their gender and/or ethnicity to check a box for forced inclusivity and diversity.
Oh, come on dude. Don't start with that whole tirade here. Can you put your favourite toy away for just five minutes please?
Oh your right... i forgot that only WotC employees can say whatever they want on company time that has nothing to do with the game. But here on a free forum people cant voice concerns because it doesn’t agree with WotC.
I guess continuing to ignore it will totally make it go away...
I will say i surprised you didn’t just report me to the forum masters like they want you to.
Is it about that time for another giant, thread-derailing political argument to rear its ugly head on MTGS? Yes? No?
Ya think maybe your claim that diversity hires entails hiring for diversity strictly over merit is, I dunno, a stand-in for your more honest position that you just don't want diversity to exist at all? Oh you're right... I forgot the immutable law of nature that only white guys can be good writers.
Just out of curiosity, what's your explanation for when a bad MTG novel comes out which was written by a white guy? Like... most of them, even? Or is it just the case of the world working in mysterious ways?
Because WotS: Ravnica and WotS: Forsaken are bad quality for novels. They are coincidentally written by a white guy. It doesn't change the actual quality of the books if Greg Weisman was actually an african woman for example.
There is also a thing known as a 'diversity quota' for a given work environment in order to appear inclusive instead of exclusive. Whether the work environment actually has this culture of diversity is a different matter entirely. This can have an unfortunate effect that a person might be hired based on the exterior appearance rather than the quality of their actual skills for the job. This can apply to any person, no matter what their race or gender is.
Another reason Greg Weisman was hired is because of his clout. He is a big-name writer for novels, comics, and television shows. Hiring him seems like a no-brainer compared to a nobody. As it would draw in a larger amount of customers to buy this new product. Similar to how Stephen King novels, mini-series, and movies tend to just sell well if it has his name attached to it.
The subjectivity of most/all external reading material within a franchise for a fandom is always one of contentious debate, but there are times when the community will come together and agree on something.
We could...but that would involve WotC hiring people based on merit and not solely on their gender and/or ethnicity to check a box for forced inclusivity and diversity.
Oh, come on dude. Don't start with that whole tirade here. Can you put your favourite toy away for just five minutes please?
Oh your right... i forgot that only WotC employees can say whatever they want on company time that has nothing to do with the game. But here on a free forum people cant voice concerns because it doesn’t agree with WotC.
I guess continuing to ignore it will totally make it go away...
I will say i surprised you didn’t just report me to the forum masters like they want you to.
Is it about that time for another giant, thread-derailing political argument to rear its ugly head on MTGS? Yes? No?
Ya think maybe your claim that diversity hires entails hiring for diversity strictly over merit is, I dunno, a stand-in for your more honest position that you just don't want diversity to exist at all? Oh you're right... I forgot the immutable law of nature that only white guys can be good writers.
Just out of curiosity, what's your explanation for when a bad MTG novel comes out which was written by a white guy? Like... most of them, even? Or is it just the case of the world working in mysterious ways?
Because WotS: Ravnica and WotS: Forsaken are bad quality for novels. They are coincidentally written by a white guy. It doesn't change the actual quality of the books if Greg Weisman was actually an african woman for example.
Yes, of course. But Jiyor's claim is that MTG creative is failing because of diversity hires. White guys who just happen to write low quality novels aren't diversity hires, so it seems pretty unlikely that diversity hires caused those white guys to write low quality novels. Some other explanation is needed, a better, more rational one than "diversity hires = low quality." And if we can garner such an explanation for all the bad content being output by white guy writers, the need for Jiyor's alternative explanation for the overall issue with quality becomes practically nonexistent.
I have to give it to you, I did not think that any of that needed to be explained.
There is also a thing known as a 'diversity quota' for a given work environment in order to appear inclusive instead of exclusive. Whether the work environment actually has this culture of diversity is a different matter entirely. This can have an unfortunate effect that a person might be hired based on the exterior appearance rather than the quality of their actual skills for the job. This can apply to any person, no matter what their race or gender is.
Sure. Any policy can sometimes come with unintended consequences. But I would question whether it is ever the case in practice that someone is really hired purely on the basis of their diversity qualifications in lieu of a host of hiring criteria.
I don’t understand what Weisman being the worst author MtG has ever seen has to do with Theros? Unless he was originally contracted to write the Theros novel? Thassa forbid. That’s the only scenario I can forgive WOTC for failing to release a novel for Theros. Because if it’s between a novel for Theros by Weisman or no novel, I will absolutely choose to have nothing.
But it’s not as if Weisman is their only option for novels. No one has collected into mobs over Kate Elliott, Wrexler or Sanderson. On the contrary, actually. They had options.
No, really guys. Can we not with the diversity argument? As much as it's an important issue and part of me would love to get out my pitchfork too, way too many threads (and other forums!) have been taken over by it, it gets tired and repetitive, and it usually doesn't really go anywhere.
There's so many other opportunities online to talk about this, do we need the mods to inevitably intervene before you just leave it?
Anyway, I agree with @Tiro of Meletis again. The Weisman novels are no excuse for this. Besides, the timeline doesn't make sense. If they were ever going to do a Theros novel, they would have started work on it before the Weisman hate gained steam for that to influence anything.
I don’t understand what Weisman being the worst author MtG has ever seen has to do with Theros? Unless he was originally contracted to write the Theros novel? Thassa forbid. That’s the only scenario I can forgive WOTC for failing to release a novel for Theros. Because if it’s between a novel for Theros by Weisman or no novel, I will absolutely choose to have nothing.
But it’s not as if Weisman is their only option for novels. No one has collected into mobs over Kate Elliott, Wrexler or Sanderson. On the contrary, actually. They had options.
No, really guys. Can we not with the diversity argument? As much as it's an important issue and part of me would love to get out my pitchfork too, way too many threads (and other forums!) have been taken over by it, it gets tired and repetitive, and it usually doesn't really go anywhere.
There's so many other opportunities online to talk about this, do we need the mods to inevitably intervene before you just leave it?
Anyway, I agree with @Tiro of Meletis again. The Weisman novels are no excuse for this. Besides, the timeline doesn't make sense. If they were ever going to do a Theros novel, they would have started work on it before the Weisman hate gained steam for that to influence anything.
The only other logical conclusion, if Greg's quality is not a factor, but instead his cost. As you are paying a writer a fee to write a novel if they are freelance. As from the company's perspective, they already commissioned three likely expensive novels in advance and had no way of knowing that the blowback would be so hard that it would have to be them making a public announcement on their own website to address some concerns. That they would have metaphorical pitchforks and mobs at them, AKA Bad PR, in addition to a lost investment.
And if you think they aren't watching youtube videos on their products or analyzing tweets on twitter to gauge a community's reaction, then prepare to be surprised.
If they were ever going to do a Theros novel, they would have started work on it before the Weisman hate gained steam for that to influence anything.
Maybe they did start it, and that's why there's no novel - because it's entirely possible that given the current situation, they passed another review on it and decided to not release it.
If they were ever going to do a Theros novel, they would have started work on it before the Weisman hate gained steam for that to influence anything.
Maybe they did start it, and that's why there's no novel - because it's entirely possible that given the current situation, they passed another review on it and decided to not release it.
I really wish they just would release it. Literally the only backlash was against Weisman. Material by other authors, including material pertaining to WOtS (Wrexler’s prequels) were celebrated instead of criticized. It’s literally just Greg Weisman and his horrible writing. So unless Greg was set to pen the Theros novel ( I doubt it) then I see no reason to hold it back.
Assuming that’s what has transpired of course.
If they were ever going to do a Theros novel, they would have started work on it before the Weisman hate gained steam for that to influence anything.
Maybe they did start it, and that's why there's no novel - because it's entirely possible that given the current situation, they passed another review on it and decided to not release it.
Likely canned in July or August, early September at the latest. Hence why no product announcement about it in mid September.
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Warriors, torch-bearers, come redeem our dreams
Shine a light upon this night of otherworldly fiends
Odin's might be your guide, divorce you from the sane
Hammer's way will have its say, rise up in their name
Scratching hag, you rake your claws, gnash your crooked teeth
You've taken slaves like ocean waves, now feel the ocean seethe
- Children of the Elder Gods by Poets of the Fall
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This is jumping the gun. We don't know what happens kinda hard to say its filler or not.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Hell we used to have great writing before the Hasbro acquisition and for some time after it. Then they dropped novels. And now were at the point where their dropping lore altogether.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
WotC’s really been going downhill in terms of story. First there’s the rushed Dominaria, then some decent, if underwhelming, stories in GRN block, then a crappily written novel, then another, then an ebook which is essentially paywalling the story. And now, we’re not even getting a story for Theros 2, a block that really needs it to tie up some loose ends?
Heck, it would’ve been cool to even see short stories like Dreams of the City, but we don’t even have that now. We’re in a golden age of Magic - sales are high, Arena’s doing great, the formats are fun despite the brokenness of Eldraine. And WotC’s throwing Vorthoses a giant middle finger.
Firing Kelly Digges, getting rid of short stories online, Kelman and Weisman, and now this are all a sign that MTG has entered Yugioh/Konami territory by becoming a dispassionate cash cow with only short term gain as the priority. It’s like a burning meteor at this point. Bright and alarming only to fizzle out in time.
Of all the lore, of all the opportunity to abandon. This isn’t even about Theros at this point. It’s really a sign of the times. The magic brand WILL be run into the ground for profit. If only there was a way out for the company. Hasbro relying on MTG for the stock market game has ruined it and Kelman is outright Malignant cancer Spreading via lymph and hematogenously until every organ is a poisoned slog of tumorous death seriously f that guy
I guess elspeth being decidedly female wasn’t a good enough story for our new LORE Assassin
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Oh, come on dude. Don't start with that whole tirade here. Can you put your favourite toy away for just five minutes please?
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Just they are not doing it in the old website freebie links nor by ebook
Sure. It's just about the most minimal choice though, clearly, other than just having stuff on cards.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Reach out and torch someone . . .
Oh your right... i forgot that only WotC employees can say whatever they want on company time that has nothing to do with the game. But here on a free forum people cant voice concerns because it doesn’t agree with WotC.
I guess continuing to ignore it will totally make it go away...
I will say i surprised you didn’t just report me to the forum masters like they want you to.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Is it about that time for another giant, thread-derailing political argument to rear its ugly head on MTGS? Yes? No?
Ya think maybe your claim that diversity hires entails hiring for diversity strictly over merit is, I dunno, a stand-in for your more honest position that you just don't want diversity to exist at all? Oh you're right... I forgot the immutable law of nature that only white guys can be good writers.
Just out of curiosity, what's your explanation for when a bad MTG novel comes out which was written by a white guy? Like... most of them, even? Or is it just the case of the world working in mysterious ways?
The story articles were pretty good. They were apparently very popular articles. They might have been high upkeep for little financial return for WotC though, and although that's unfortunate, you can't really fault them for stopping if that was the reason. If that was a problem, maybe they could just release less of them though?
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
There is also a thing known as a 'diversity quota' for a given work environment in order to appear inclusive instead of exclusive. Whether the work environment actually has this culture of diversity is a different matter entirely. This can have an unfortunate effect that a person might be hired based on the exterior appearance rather than the quality of their actual skills for the job. This can apply to any person, no matter what their race or gender is.
Another reason Greg Weisman was hired is because of his clout. He is a big-name writer for novels, comics, and television shows. Hiring him seems like a no-brainer compared to a nobody. As it would draw in a larger amount of customers to buy this new product. Similar to how Stephen King novels, mini-series, and movies tend to just sell well if it has his name attached to it.
The subjectivity of most/all external reading material within a franchise for a fandom is always one of contentious debate, but there are times when the community will come together and agree on something.
Yes, of course. But Jiyor's claim is that MTG creative is failing because of diversity hires. White guys who just happen to write low quality novels aren't diversity hires, so it seems pretty unlikely that diversity hires caused those white guys to write low quality novels. Some other explanation is needed, a better, more rational one than "diversity hires = low quality." And if we can garner such an explanation for all the bad content being output by white guy writers, the need for Jiyor's alternative explanation for the overall issue with quality becomes practically nonexistent.
I have to give it to you, I did not think that any of that needed to be explained.
Sure. Any policy can sometimes come with unintended consequences. But I would question whether it is ever the case in practice that someone is really hired purely on the basis of their diversity qualifications in lieu of a host of hiring criteria.
But it’s not as if Weisman is their only option for novels. No one has collected into mobs over Kate Elliott, Wrexler or Sanderson. On the contrary, actually. They had options.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
There's so many other opportunities online to talk about this, do we need the mods to inevitably intervene before you just leave it?
Anyway, I agree with @Tiro of Meletis again. The Weisman novels are no excuse for this. Besides, the timeline doesn't make sense. If they were ever going to do a Theros novel, they would have started work on it before the Weisman hate gained steam for that to influence anything.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
And if you think they aren't watching youtube videos on their products or analyzing tweets on twitter to gauge a community's reaction, then prepare to be surprised.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Assuming that’s what has transpired of course.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Shine a light upon this night of otherworldly fiends
Odin's might be your guide, divorce you from the sane
Hammer's way will have its say, rise up in their name
Scratching hag, you rake your claws, gnash your crooked teeth
You've taken slaves like ocean waves, now feel the ocean seethe
- Children of the Elder Gods by Poets of the Fall