I think people would be more excited if the product had some high dollar reprints such as Masterpieces/Inventions/Alternate Art Planeswalkers even if the chance of pulling one was very small. People were excited about Zendikar Treasures and the Masterpieces, and I would think that they would be eager to get another crack at something high dollar but very rare. Also, I think they should have released the entire set list Friday so that people could actually see if they wanted to buy/draft this set.
That's very disappointing to hear the test cards won't be in the retail packs. Why does WOTC keep getting so close to doing something amazing, then they trip over their own shoelaces before the finish line?
There's some amazing and fun designs in there, maybe we can convince them to release the test cards in the next run of this product.
I think people would be more excited if the product had some high dollar reprints such as Masterpieces/Inventions/Alternate Art Planeswalkers even if the chance of pulling one was very small. People were excited about Zendikar Treasures and the Masterpieces, and I would think that they would be eager to get another crack at something high dollar but very rare. Also, I think they should have released the entire set list Friday so that people could actually see if they wanted to buy/draft this set.
Well, first off, Mana Crypt is in there, so you've got high value. I did three drafts at 25 each, and got more than my value back in each. Recruiter of the Guard and Sliver Hivelord for example were 25 each, but there's even cards like Aura Shards and Rhystic Study for $10+ in the non rare slots.
As to the second point, they are spoiling everything Monday and it will be available at major tournaments through next year, but they wanted one weekend event for everyone to discover the set by playing it rather than reading a bunch of websites. And it was worth it.
Rosewater confirms the Test cards are Convention Boosters only, with something else to replace them in the retail versions.
Dumb move on their part.
Those test cards were the only thing I even had the remotest interest in in these packs.
Ditto,
I was really looking forward to collecting a full set of these when more packs were cracked and more of these were available. With things as they are, though, the $50+ prices on Ebay will likely be the norm (except for truly boring ones that no one wants, I guess).
Even if it isn't tournament legal, giving out exclusive cards is a really feels-bad move.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Perhaps regular boosters will have the same cards, but looking like normal Magic cards?
Yeah that sounds so unrealistic, keep dreaming
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
test cards is a neat idea. they're worthless and all, but i think the possibility of the players giving feedback on them and influencing future design has a lot of potential.
the packs themselves are kind of boring without the test cards but meh
anyway, there's a part of me that would very much like to see future retail packs have the possibility of replacing the token/ad insert with a test card. it wouldn't be legal in any official capacity, but would allow players to see the design process, and be able to give more feedback on potential cards. the future future league is clearly broken somewhere. either the league isn't great at magic, or r&d doesn't listen to them. it might be worth it to push this idea of real world feedback on experimental or troublesome designs so that we can get stronger, fairer, more interesting cards in the long run, instead of turning every card into an elk.
Sub-$4 format All Stars like Thran Dynamo, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, Rune-scarred Demon, Skullclamp...
That’s “meh”? Seriously, get better at evaluating, you’re terrible at it.
Other then fetches, what more kind of things are people looking for in a reprint set? And the list I compiled was with about 400 cards spoiled, with anywhere from 600 to 1600 more cards to come.
Sub-$4 format All Stars like Thran Dynamo, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, Rune-scarred Demon, Skullclamp...
That’s “meh”? Seriously, get better at evaluating, you’re terrible at it.
Other then fetches, what more kind of things are people looking for in a reprint set? And the list I compiled was with about 400 cards spoiled, with anywhere from 600 to 1600 more cards to come.
He said boring, not bad. There looks to be some good stuff (although at 2000 cards, every rare is basically a mythic, and a mythic is basically a Masterpiece in terms of how many packs need to be cracked for a specific one). I don't care about the test cards either way, but it was neat that they had a gimmick. It's not great for the first card we saw on stream to be something we can't get at the LGS. It still looks decent.
As far as prices, you know those won't age well. There are certainly some excellent picks, and a lot of things I will be glad to see reprinted, but of the cards you listed, there are quite a few that are expensive because of scarcity, not play. They are welcome sights for EDH players, but like Defense of the Heart and Bloom Tender would not break $5 if as many copies as a rare in just one core set existed in the world
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
He also said “meh”, and we all know what that means: unimpressed. And even if the emphasis is on boring, why even play the game? If one isn’t excited about a laundry list of $10+ EDH staples and some other format all stars, evaluation of this set and any others should be questioned.
And as for that list, I played 6 hours of Commander yesterday against 6 or 7 opponents, and 5 hours on Wednesday against 4 completely different opponents and without exaggeration saw all but Sorin and Bauble in the first list, and all but Chromatic Star, Toxin Sliver, Hedron Crab, Temporal Mastery, Asceticism and Lightning Helix and Lightning Bolt in the other lists. That’s 34 out of 43 mentioned cards on the table, either in front of me or coming at me in just 2 play sessions.
Every one of those cards attributes their price to playability and not scarcity with the exceptions of Mana Crypt, Teferi’s Protection, Rhystic Study, and Bloom Tender, whose prices are due to an equal combination of scarcity and playability, and maybe Defense of the Heart (which I’d agree weighs towards scarcity). How can I qualify this? Because with the exception of those 5 cards, none of the others are hard to come by; most everything on that list saw a printing or reprinting in the last 2 to 3 years, therefore their price is attributable to playability. Norn has 3 printings, excluding the judge foil and still commands $18. Grave Titan 3 printings and a promo, still $13.
You guys are misunderstanding. There are good cards in these packs, but it appears the chances to pull them are so low it doesn't even matter. 21 out of somewhere between 1000 and 2000 is terrible odds. Like I have seen in the thread before, if these are comparable in price to regular set pack price, it will be a novel draft format. If they end up being 10+ dollars, this will bomb incredibly hard, unless they have something super impressive for that slot that had the test print cards. All of this may change based on the full card list, but the number of good cards is going to have to be really jacked up to make this more than a fun draft.
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"It's like some kind of Voltron... made of elephants??"
You guys are misunderstanding. There are good cards in these packs, but it appears the chances to pull them are so low it doesn't even matter. 21 out of somewhere between 1000 and 2000 is terrible odds. Like I have seen in the thread before, if these are comparable in price to regular set pack price, it will be a novel draft format. If they end up being 10+ dollars, this will bomb incredibly hard, unless they have something super impressive for that slot that had the test print cards. All of this may change based on the full card list, but the number of good cards is going to have to be really jacked up to make this more than a fun draft.
Agreed that 21 good cards out of 1000-2000 cards are not great odds, but you’re misunderstanding a few things of your own.
First, while you do touch on the number of spoiled cards, this list of cards was made looking at a list of a little over 400 spoiled cards. Whereas with an official Wizards set spoiler we all should know by now we tend to get the best cards spoiled early, and the remainder spoilers are chaff, but that’s not the case here. We’ve seen only 21 high priced cards out of ~400 cards because that’s what’s been opened. It’s not guaranteed, but if we’ve only seen say 25% to 33% percent of the cards (assuming 1200 to 1600 cards) it stands to reason that we’ve seen only 25% to 33% of the good cards. Again, because this isn’t a typical spoiler, there’s no reason to think unseen cards are chaff. That would mean conceivably there are 63 to 84 more money cards in the set.
Second, while correct that we don’t know the price of these packs and that will most assuredly have a bearing on the overall merits of this set, your choosing of “21 cards” indicates you’re referring to the first portion of my list. A lot of the 18 cards I put in that second group ($4-$10) were at the high end of that range, at $8 or $9. Most people would be pretty happy to pull $8 or $9 cards out of their pack, and if we use the same ratio of good cards spoiled to total cards, that means we could see another 50-70 cards of worth in them.
Third, you’re neglecting that while the set is indeed very large and will serve to dilute the dollar value of the pack, you’re getting TWO rares per pack, not one.
Third, it’s being shown cards are appearing at their regular, original rarities. Meaning in addition to your two rares, you can pull a $24 Demonic Tutor in the UC slot, or a $16 Rhystic as a common.
Price of the packs will definitely determine the success of these. However with 25-33% of the set spoiled, there is no reason to dismiss the set based on content.
EDIT: since my above list was compiled, and since all other content in this post, the following cards have been revealed: All is Dust $6, Eldrazi Monument $7, Purphoros $20, Queen Marchessa $20, Gitrog Monster $7, Athreos $16.
And they actually did the black green vigilance flyer! That’s a nod to the third Great Designer Search, if I’m not wrong.
They decided to let us use magic cards by how it all started before they existed
Who knows maybe the ones we discover that aren’t so broken will end up as a real card in a set (named differently and text changed a little)
They actually printed it! Those mad-men finally did it!
Hallowed be thy name, WotC!
You can see it here:
It has been my signature for years.
3BB
Sorcery
You lose the game.
What!?!
Well that’s a big rip off
What’s the store version just the next un-set
There's some amazing and fun designs in there, maybe we can convince them to release the test cards in the next run of this product.
Dumb move on their part.
Those test cards were the only thing I even had the remotest interest in in these packs.
Well, first off, Mana Crypt is in there, so you've got high value. I did three drafts at 25 each, and got more than my value back in each. Recruiter of the Guard and Sliver Hivelord for example were 25 each, but there's even cards like Aura Shards and Rhystic Study for $10+ in the non rare slots.
As to the second point, they are spoiling everything Monday and it will be available at major tournaments through next year, but they wanted one weekend event for everyone to discover the set by playing it rather than reading a bunch of websites. And it was worth it.
Ditto,
I was really looking forward to collecting a full set of these when more packs were cracked and more of these were available. With things as they are, though, the $50+ prices on Ebay will likely be the norm (except for truly boring ones that no one wants, I guess).
Even if it isn't tournament legal, giving out exclusive cards is a really feels-bad move.
Well, I mean, it's hardly a difficult design to think of.
Yeah that sounds so unrealistic, keep dreaming
Why would I? I have no stake in it either way.
the packs themselves are kind of boring without the test cards but meh
anyway, there's a part of me that would very much like to see future retail packs have the possibility of replacing the token/ad insert with a test card. it wouldn't be legal in any official capacity, but would allow players to see the design process, and be able to give more feedback on potential cards. the future future league is clearly broken somewhere. either the league isn't great at magic, or r&d doesn't listen to them. it might be worth it to push this idea of real world feedback on experimental or troublesome designs so that we can get stronger, fairer, more interesting cards in the long run, instead of turning every card into an elk.
Mana Crypt $190
Kolaghan’s Command $23
Elesh Norn $18
Sliver Hivelord $20
Demonic Tutor $24
Rhystic Study $16
Teferi’s Protection $37
Aura Shards $13
Bloom Tender $47
Kiki-Jiki $13
Teferi, TA $15
Alhamarrett’s Archive $12
Animar $13
Tireless Tracker $13
Defense of the Heart $16
Grave Titan $13
Soren Markov $11
Recruiter of the Guard $18
Rhys the Redeemed $30
Mishra’s Bauble $10
Phyrexian Arena $10
$4-$10 cards like Manamorphose, Sol Ring, Caged Sun, Kruphix, Lightning Greaves, Birds, Chromatic Star, Toxin Sliver, Solemn Simulacrum, PHyrexian Metamorph, Lotus Petal, Asceticism, Chromatic Lantern, Hedron Crab, Dictate of Erebos, Basilisk Collar, Baleful Strix, Temporal Mastery...
Sub-$4 format All Stars like Thran Dynamo, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, Rune-scarred Demon, Skullclamp...
That’s “meh”? Seriously, get better at evaluating, you’re terrible at it.
Other then fetches, what more kind of things are people looking for in a reprint set? And the list I compiled was with about 400 cards spoiled, with anywhere from 600 to 1600 more cards to come.
He said boring, not bad. There looks to be some good stuff (although at 2000 cards, every rare is basically a mythic, and a mythic is basically a Masterpiece in terms of how many packs need to be cracked for a specific one). I don't care about the test cards either way, but it was neat that they had a gimmick. It's not great for the first card we saw on stream to be something we can't get at the LGS. It still looks decent.
As far as prices, you know those won't age well. There are certainly some excellent picks, and a lot of things I will be glad to see reprinted, but of the cards you listed, there are quite a few that are expensive because of scarcity, not play. They are welcome sights for EDH players, but like Defense of the Heart and Bloom Tender would not break $5 if as many copies as a rare in just one core set existed in the world
And as for that list, I played 6 hours of Commander yesterday against 6 or 7 opponents, and 5 hours on Wednesday against 4 completely different opponents and without exaggeration saw all but Sorin and Bauble in the first list, and all but Chromatic Star, Toxin Sliver, Hedron Crab, Temporal Mastery, Asceticism and Lightning Helix and Lightning Bolt in the other lists. That’s 34 out of 43 mentioned cards on the table, either in front of me or coming at me in just 2 play sessions.
Every one of those cards attributes their price to playability and not scarcity with the exceptions of Mana Crypt, Teferi’s Protection, Rhystic Study, and Bloom Tender, whose prices are due to an equal combination of scarcity and playability, and maybe Defense of the Heart (which I’d agree weighs towards scarcity). How can I qualify this? Because with the exception of those 5 cards, none of the others are hard to come by; most everything on that list saw a printing or reprinting in the last 2 to 3 years, therefore their price is attributable to playability. Norn has 3 printings, excluding the judge foil and still commands $18. Grave Titan 3 printings and a promo, still $13.
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
Agreed that 21 good cards out of 1000-2000 cards are not great odds, but you’re misunderstanding a few things of your own.
First, while you do touch on the number of spoiled cards, this list of cards was made looking at a list of a little over 400 spoiled cards. Whereas with an official Wizards set spoiler we all should know by now we tend to get the best cards spoiled early, and the remainder spoilers are chaff, but that’s not the case here. We’ve seen only 21 high priced cards out of ~400 cards because that’s what’s been opened. It’s not guaranteed, but if we’ve only seen say 25% to 33% percent of the cards (assuming 1200 to 1600 cards) it stands to reason that we’ve seen only 25% to 33% of the good cards. Again, because this isn’t a typical spoiler, there’s no reason to think unseen cards are chaff. That would mean conceivably there are 63 to 84 more money cards in the set.
Second, while correct that we don’t know the price of these packs and that will most assuredly have a bearing on the overall merits of this set, your choosing of “21 cards” indicates you’re referring to the first portion of my list. A lot of the 18 cards I put in that second group ($4-$10) were at the high end of that range, at $8 or $9. Most people would be pretty happy to pull $8 or $9 cards out of their pack, and if we use the same ratio of good cards spoiled to total cards, that means we could see another 50-70 cards of worth in them.
Third, you’re neglecting that while the set is indeed very large and will serve to dilute the dollar value of the pack, you’re getting TWO rares per pack, not one.
Third, it’s being shown cards are appearing at their regular, original rarities. Meaning in addition to your two rares, you can pull a $24 Demonic Tutor in the UC slot, or a $16 Rhystic as a common.
Price of the packs will definitely determine the success of these. However with 25-33% of the set spoiled, there is no reason to dismiss the set based on content.
EDIT: since my above list was compiled, and since all other content in this post, the following cards have been revealed: All is Dust $6, Eldrazi Monument $7, Purphoros $20, Queen Marchessa $20, Gitrog Monster $7, Athreos $16.