You know what you wrote makes me want to start complaining instead of stop
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
You know what you wrote makes me want to start complaining instead of stop
Complain if you like, but he's right. This is all our (customer pool at large) fault.
The entry barrier to our fun is increasing, limiting who can have fun with us. But this is just a continuation of existing trends.
And actually, charging large dollars for functionally identical game pieces is so much better than chase-mythics and tournament-staple buy-a-boxen. So while WotC are undeniably wh0res, you can't really blame them for it. Blame the johns.
You know what you wrote makes me want to start complaining instead of stop
Complain if you like, but he's right. This is all our (customer pool at large) fault.
The entry barrier to our fun is increasing, limiting who can have fun with us. But this is just a continuation of existing trends.
And actually, charging large dollars for functionally identical game pieces is so much better than chase-mythics and tournament-staple buy-a-boxen. So while WotC are undeniably wh0res, you can't really blame them for it. Blame the johns.
So the business making the decision to price-gouge it’s customers bears no responsibility? It’s all on us, even though no one here has expressed any interest and even social media seems to be 100% against this product? Why shouldn’t we hold WotC’s lack of morals or respect for their customers against them?
You know what you wrote makes me want to start complaining instead of stop
Complain if you like, but he's right. This is all our (customer pool at large) fault.
The entry barrier to our fun is increasing, limiting who can have fun with us. But this is just a continuation of existing trends.
And actually, charging large dollars for functionally identical game pieces is so much better than chase-mythics and tournament-staple buy-a-boxen. So while WotC are undeniably wh0res, you can't really blame them for it. Blame the johns.
So the business making the decision to price-gouge it’s customers bears no responsibility? It’s all on us, even though no one here has expressed any interest and even social media seems to be 100% against this product? Why shouldn’t we hold WotC’s lack of morals or respect for their customers against them?
Yes. Full stop.
1) You don't have to buy this stuff....even if you play Magic. Even if you play Magic at the most competitive, highest level. There is no functional difference between this fluff and the regular versions of the cards. You can still play Magic exactly as effectively as before.
2) If it makes you happy to play Magic with different-looking, strategically identical cards....that's all on you. Decide how much it is worth to you do to that, and if it is worth more than the price, buy. If not, quitcher *****in'.
3) This of course leaves aside the fact that you do not have to play paper Magic, or constructed Magic, or even Magic at all. If a corporation which has the legal obligation to be wh0res with respect to money, and without respect of much of anything else, upsets you, then don't do business with them. Posting on a message board is just not on their radar.
4) Your reporting of "100% against this product" is ridiculous. It will sell, therefore some people aren't against it. It will sell out, just like the other similar products before it. That is the evidence that I use to call your statement ridiculous, as a matter of fact, not of online-flame-opinion..
(P.S. I haven't played constructed paper magic since 2008. I have bought zero cards (not including fewer than 3 sealed tournaments per year) for over a decade because of WotC crap. Someone said something about holding a company's disagreeable behavior against them. That person was right, just a little misguided about what action to apply.)
wizards already introduced a 2 class way of selling magic products with the master editions. and people were more than happy to buy it. they wondered if thats the ceiling and tried the master editions with just 8 premium walkers and people were more than happy to buy it. ofc they go next level with these collectors boosters and this deluxe edition. the problem is not wizards, it is every single person that just buys cardboard for that price and all the others saying, yea, it is worth that much. that system only works as long as people support it.
just look at the secondary market. investors artificially increase the price by limiting the supply on a more or less low, but stable demand. thats why the price goes up and some people still pay for it.
and wizards notices people are paying 100's of dollars on the secondary market for rare stuff. so they say, lets make stuff rare and ask for the cash.
There's a big difference between Masters sets and Deluxe Editions. There's a little less of a difference between Masters sets and Mythic Editions, but still a significant one. While I disagreed with the execution, Masters sets were created for the purpose of getting reprinted cards into the hands of people who wanted them. Do the unopened packs have value? Yes, but that wasn't the express purpose of the set - except possibly for Ultimate Masters, which is probably the product that started WotC down the road they're currently on.
While Mythic editions had some desired reprints (the only real similarity between Masters and Mythic) Mythic and Deluxe editions were created to sell product to people who bought product in order to later resell product. Mythic and Deluxe are WotC's way of getting a piece of the secondary market pie, which they are otherwise unable to truly take advantage of. It could be argued that Mythic editions could be drafted, and I'm sure some were. But you can't do that with any of the Deluxe edition product, it's purposely not built that way. The Deluxe edition, and even the Collectors Boosters themselves, are truly not meant as a playable product, even on a single-card level. They're literally more valuable unopened, for the same reason (although not to the same extreme) that a sealed Revised booster/deck is valuable - the potential of what's inside. And WotC is pricing them accordingly. Yes, I know there's no MSRP but WotC *does* set the price they sell the product to distributors, who then have to set a price to make a profit while selling to stores, who also have to set a price to make a profit themselves, which is why the Collector's boosters are in the $25-35 range, depending on how much profit each LGS is willing to lose.
You can choose to only blame the buyers if you want, but WotC DOES bear responsibility in that they are choosing to make a product that only exists to be bought and sat on, even if WotC will never admit that.
1) You don't have to buy this stuff....even if you play Magic. Even if you play Magic at the most competitive, highest level. There is no functional difference between this fluff and the regular versions of the cards. You can still play Magic exactly as effectively as before.
2) If it makes you happy to play Magic with different-looking, strategically identical cards....that's all on you. Decide how much it is worth to you do to that, and if it is worth more than the price, buy. If not, quitcher *****in'.
3) This of course leaves aside the fact that you do not have to play paper Magic, or constructed Magic, or even Magic at all. If a corporation which has the legal obligation to be wh0res with respect to money, and without respect of much of anything else, upsets you, then don't do business with them. Posting on a message board is just not on their radar.
4) Your reporting of "100% against this product" is ridiculous. It will sell, therefore some people aren't against it. It will sell out, just like the other similar products before it. That is the evidence that I use to call your statement ridiculous, as a matter of fact, not of online-flame-opinion..
(P.S. I haven't played constructed paper magic since 2008. I have bought zero cards (not including fewer than 3 sealed tournaments per year) for over a decade because of WotC crap. Someone said something about holding a company's disagreeable behavior against them. That person was right, just a little misguided about what action to apply.)
You just defeated your own argument. Extreme greed in the pursuit of short-term profits at the expense of the goodwill and trust of their own consumers is a terrible business model and is entirely indefensible no matter what angle you take. If you think it's just a nice thing for the people who want exclusive stuff it's indefensible because the price is absurdly inflated for literally no good reason aside from unadulterated greed. If you think businesses have no responsibilities aside from making profit then it's indefensible because it leads to failure.
(P.S. I haven't played constructed paper magic since 2008. I have bought zero cards (not including fewer than 3 sealed tournaments per year) for over a decade because of WotC crap. Someone said something about holding a company's disagreeable behavior against them. That person was right, just a little misguided about what action to apply.)
You just defeated your own argument. Extreme greed in the pursuit of short-term profits at the expense of the goodwill and trust of their own consumers is a terrible business model and is entirely indefensible no matter what angle you take. If you think it's just a nice thing for the people who want exclusive stuff it's indefensible because the price is absurdly inflated for literally no good reason aside from unadulterated greed. If you think businesses have no responsibilities aside from making profit then it's indefensible because it leads to failure.
Um, yeah, a few things. When someone makes a multi-point statement, responding to only one of those points is generally a weak move. First, you give the impression that you could not respond to any of the others. Which means therefore, that you have to be very sure you nail the one point you make, because you've put all your rhetorical eggs into that basket.
In this case, in order for me to have defeated my own argument, you would have to show evidence for WotC learning their lesson from me (or even people like me) having shut off my former revenue stream to them. You would have to show that their earnings dropped in response, and that they changed their behavior accordingly.
That hasn't happened. If my Hasbro earnings report is to be believed, WotC has grown in profitability since I stopped supporting them. Not just WotC, not really any gaming company which has taken similar actions (prioritizing short term profits at the expense of long-term player stability) has suffered, and you'd be hard pressed to find any company at all which has suffered for similar actions (the half dozen or so global examples over the last century or so can be found in business-college textbooks, because that's how rare they are).
Customer goodwill just isn't worth much long-term. We as a consumer base are diffuse, fickle yet forgiving enough that we just suck at sending corporations messages like this. Trusting us to keep paying them little bits of money over the long term just isn't as attractive to companies as getting large cash right now- come whatever may later.
And again...that's our fault collectively. We've shown them the way they get to make the most money. Not their fault if they listen.
I do not think this bundle is that appealing to those Magic players with large discretionary budgets. The reason the other premium boxes were popular was because they contained unique art for popular planeswalkers. This set does not give you anything really unique or special. Would it have killed them to include all of the planeswalkers from the set with variant art? Maybe bling them out with a different foiling technique? I don't know. Anything would be better than what we have been given.
Now this I don't understand the complaining about. Like, you get nothing special from this. No special cards. You can get Kenrith and Garruk without buying this product. Unlike the Mythic editions which had versions of the cards exclusive to those. Like this isn't that big a deal. Let people buy it if they want it. Don't if you don't want to. Of all the products WotC has put out in recent years this may be one of the least egregious.
I like to think this will help keep the costs lower for regular product, but that just may be wishful thinking, though boosters have been the same price for as long as I've played.
If anything it will help get some of the ancillary stuff into the market as people try to sell off that to make up the booster cost which they are cracking for the extended / alt art rare/mythic stuff which does nothing for me really. The only thing I like in here are the showcase cards which you can get from the draft boosters and now likely a flooded secondary market from those who crack these things and dump them to recoup the cost.
Have they said anything about how many are available? Also, should magicstore.wizards.com be an actual website instead of a blank password request, or is something wrong on my end?
I honestly don't think this sounds like a bad product, if they print more than twelve of them this time.
Have they said anything about how many are available? Also, should magicstore.wizards.com be an actual website instead of a blank password request, or is something wrong on my end?
I honestly don't think this sounds like a bad product, if they print more than twelve of them this time.
Its the most lazy and basic website you could expect.
And they do it themselves and not with ebay or amazon, simply to keep the numbers "secret" (so they can just tell lies about it selling well or not).
Ebay and Amazon give a good indicator how much is sold of a product and how much is left available, they dont want that, as they mess up all the time.
Its guaranteed to be some kind of mess-up in this iteration too , question is just what they will mess-up this time ...
They probably even factored in the cost of possible compensations in the price tag of this product , it just oozes of it.
You know what you wrote makes me want to start complaining instead of stop
Complain if you like, but he's right. This is all our (customer pool at large) fault.
The entry barrier to our fun is increasing, limiting who can have fun with us. But this is just a continuation of existing trends.
And actually, charging large dollars for functionally identical game pieces is so much better than chase-mythics and tournament-staple buy-a-boxen. So while WotC are undeniably wh0res, you can't really blame them for it. Blame the johns.
So the business making the decision to price-gouge it’s customers bears no responsibility? It’s all on us, even though no one here has expressed any interest and even social media seems to be 100% against this product? Why shouldn’t we hold WotC’s lack of morals or respect for their customers against them?
Yes. Full stop.
1) You don't have to buy this stuff....even if you play Magic. Even if you play Magic at the most competitive, highest level. There is no functional difference between this fluff and the regular versions of the cards. You can still play Magic exactly as effectively as before.
2) If it makes you happy to play Magic with different-looking, strategically identical cards....that's all on you. Decide how much it is worth to you do to that, and if it is worth more than the price, buy. If not, quitcher *****in'.
3) This of course leaves aside the fact that you do not have to play paper Magic, or constructed Magic, or even Magic at all. If a corporation which has the legal obligation to be wh0res with respect to money, and without respect of much of anything else, upsets you, then don't do business with them. Posting on a message board is just not on their radar.
4) Your reporting of "100% against this product" is ridiculous. It will sell, therefore some people aren't against it. It will sell out, just like the other similar products before it. That is the evidence that I use to call your statement ridiculous, as a matter of fact, not of online-flame-opinion..
(P.S. I haven't played constructed paper magic since 2008. I have bought zero cards (not including fewer than 3 sealed tournaments per year) for over a decade because of WotC crap. Someone said something about holding a company's disagreeable behavior against them. That person was right, just a little misguided about what action to apply.)
There's a big difference between Masters sets and Deluxe Editions. There's a little less of a difference between Masters sets and Mythic Editions, but still a significant one. While I disagreed with the execution, Masters sets were created for the purpose of getting reprinted cards into the hands of people who wanted them. Do the unopened packs have value? Yes, but that wasn't the express purpose of the set - except possibly for Ultimate Masters, which is probably the product that started WotC down the road they're currently on.
While Mythic editions had some desired reprints (the only real similarity between Masters and Mythic) Mythic and Deluxe editions were created to sell product to people who bought product in order to later resell product. Mythic and Deluxe are WotC's way of getting a piece of the secondary market pie, which they are otherwise unable to truly take advantage of. It could be argued that Mythic editions could be drafted, and I'm sure some were. But you can't do that with any of the Deluxe edition product, it's purposely not built that way. The Deluxe edition, and even the Collectors Boosters themselves, are truly not meant as a playable product, even on a single-card level. They're literally more valuable unopened, for the same reason (although not to the same extreme) that a sealed Revised booster/deck is valuable - the potential of what's inside. And WotC is pricing them accordingly. Yes, I know there's no MSRP but WotC *does* set the price they sell the product to distributors, who then have to set a price to make a profit while selling to stores, who also have to set a price to make a profit themselves, which is why the Collector's boosters are in the $25-35 range, depending on how much profit each LGS is willing to lose.
You can choose to only blame the buyers if you want, but WotC DOES bear responsibility in that they are choosing to make a product that only exists to be bought and sat on, even if WotC will never admit that.
You just defeated your own argument. Extreme greed in the pursuit of short-term profits at the expense of the goodwill and trust of their own consumers is a terrible business model and is entirely indefensible no matter what angle you take. If you think it's just a nice thing for the people who want exclusive stuff it's indefensible because the price is absurdly inflated for literally no good reason aside from unadulterated greed. If you think businesses have no responsibilities aside from making profit then it's indefensible because it leads to failure.
Um, yeah, a few things. When someone makes a multi-point statement, responding to only one of those points is generally a weak move. First, you give the impression that you could not respond to any of the others. Which means therefore, that you have to be very sure you nail the one point you make, because you've put all your rhetorical eggs into that basket.
In this case, in order for me to have defeated my own argument, you would have to show evidence for WotC learning their lesson from me (or even people like me) having shut off my former revenue stream to them. You would have to show that their earnings dropped in response, and that they changed their behavior accordingly.
That hasn't happened. If my Hasbro earnings report is to be believed, WotC has grown in profitability since I stopped supporting them. Not just WotC, not really any gaming company which has taken similar actions (prioritizing short term profits at the expense of long-term player stability) has suffered, and you'd be hard pressed to find any company at all which has suffered for similar actions (the half dozen or so global examples over the last century or so can be found in business-college textbooks, because that's how rare they are).
Customer goodwill just isn't worth much long-term. We as a consumer base are diffuse, fickle yet forgiving enough that we just suck at sending corporations messages like this. Trusting us to keep paying them little bits of money over the long term just isn't as attractive to companies as getting large cash right now- come whatever may later.
And again...that's our fault collectively. We've shown them the way they get to make the most money. Not their fault if they listen.
I do not think this bundle is that appealing to those Magic players with large discretionary budgets. The reason the other premium boxes were popular was because they contained unique art for popular planeswalkers. This set does not give you anything really unique or special. Would it have killed them to include all of the planeswalkers from the set with variant art? Maybe bling them out with a different foiling technique? I don't know. Anything would be better than what we have been given.
hard pass. that's half my rent.
Sports cars and yachts sell.
If anything it will help get some of the ancillary stuff into the market as people try to sell off that to make up the booster cost which they are cracking for the extended / alt art rare/mythic stuff which does nothing for me really. The only thing I like in here are the showcase cards which you can get from the draft boosters and now likely a flooded secondary market from those who crack these things and dump them to recoup the cost.
We will see what happens.
In five years time which do you think will be worth more?
Exactly.
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I honestly don't think this sounds like a bad product, if they print more than twelve of them this time.
Its the most lazy and basic website you could expect.
And they do it themselves and not with ebay or amazon, simply to keep the numbers "secret" (so they can just tell lies about it selling well or not).
Ebay and Amazon give a good indicator how much is sold of a product and how much is left available, they dont want that, as they mess up all the time.
Its guaranteed to be some kind of mess-up in this iteration too , question is just what they will mess-up this time ...
They probably even factored in the cost of possible compensations in the price tag of this product , it just oozes of it.
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