If we're going back to these places I wonder if we'll see things like Heroic and devotion for Theros; I'd guess we'll see a landfall variant if not landfall itself for Zendikar, provided the storyline and setting call for it. I'd like to see more Heroic and devotion.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
If we're going back to these places I wonder if we'll see things like Heroic and devotion for Theros; I'd guess we'll see a landfall variant if not landfall itself for Zendikar, provided the storyline and setting call for it. I'd like to see more Heroic and devotion.
'buster
I would say Devotion is a sure thing. Heroic was pretty underwhelming last time though, so they may just drop it.
If we're going back to these places I wonder if we'll see things like Heroic and devotion for Theros; I'd guess we'll see a landfall variant if not landfall itself for Zendikar, provided the storyline and setting call for it. I'd like to see more Heroic and devotion.
'buster
I would say Devotion is a sure thing. Heroic was pretty underwhelming last time though, so they may just drop it.
If we're going back to these places I wonder if we'll see things like Heroic and devotion for Theros; I'd guess we'll see a landfall variant if not landfall itself for Zendikar, provided the storyline and setting call for it. I'd like to see more Heroic and devotion.
'buster
I would say Devotion is a sure thing. Heroic was pretty underwhelming last time though, so they may just drop it.
How about constellation?
It’s a very broad ability with a ton of applications so it’s probably more likely to return than not, IMO. And it was pretty underused last time around so they may want to use it again just because there’s SO MUCH design space left to explore with Constellation.
Zendikar Rising is *100%* the 3rd set they planned for BFZ/OGW block before they blew up 3-set blocks.
I'm going to call several shots here.. It will involve Animating lands. Man-lands, "Lands Matters" mechanics including Awaken. Elementals will be a major tribe. (solely b/c all Man lands are..yep..Elementals)
Storyline, the way they were setting things up mechanically, it sure felt like they intended it to be Zendikar *literally* coming to life and defeating the Eldrazi on its own behalf. Literally, the plane of Zendikar would come to life and repel the alien invaders itself. To save iteslf in a way other planes could not. That part is gone (mostly or entirely, depending on how many Eldrazi still remain) but I think the rest probably remains.
Mark my words, peeps.. This set was already built; they're taking it out of mothballs and putting it out next year. I've been waiting for this ever since OGW. STOKED!!
If we're going back to these places I wonder if we'll see things like Heroic and devotion for Theros; I'd guess we'll see a landfall variant if not landfall itself for Zendikar, provided the storyline and setting call for it. I'd like to see more Heroic and devotion.
'buster
Hear, hear. Aside from the usual +1/+1 counters, there's a lot they can do with Heroic, like more wide effects in the fashion of Phalanx Leader and Anax and Cymede. Heroic is easy to build around, as most sets have combat tricks and Auras with which to target your creatures. That said, if they wanted Heroes to have an "enchanted or equipped" theme this time, I wouldn't complain either as I love Equipment, and it's an excuse to bring back Bestow or introduce a similar mechanic, not to mention encourage putting more colored artifacts in the set to help with the Devotion theme. Since it's just one set this time, they can also bring back Constellation. I expect Sagas could return at uncommon and higher. I'd also love to see a greater focus on legendary cards, now that Dominaria showed us how to do it right.
I think fans fully expect Landfall itself to return in Zendikar, along with Allies. Since the Eldrazi aren't mucking everything up this time, they can go back to the more adventuresome feel of the original Zendikar and Worldwake. I could see a new spell mechanic called Roil that has you bounce a permanent you control as part of the cost, which would play splendidly with Landfall and Allies, not to mention Constellation if it should happen to return in Theros.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
These next four sets will take up next year’s calendar year. Has there ever been precedence where we knew what a full year’s sets took place story wise?
Atheros and Erebos should be a given as they both have the underworld as their domain (Atheros “guarding” it and Erebos as the patron of the place) maybe Phenax too cause of his influence on the returned.
If it is a sneak mission I can’t see the other gods doing much but I guess they would just make them to fill out the set.
Another possibility would be triads of gods, like “gods of the Underworld” with Erebos+Atheros+Phenax ; “Gods of the polis” with Heliod+Iroas+Ephara ;
Return to Theros is the best news this game could have provided for me. I’ve been longing for this set and it has arrived at long last. I couldn’t be happier honestly. I love that set crest they designed for it too, can’t wait to have it on my new Theros cards.
I hope Devotion and Constellation appear. I wasn’t a fan of Heroic, Tribute or Inspired (the latter was the worst in the block) but Devotion and Constellation are just too on theme and celebrated to be left out. I agree we will likely only see the mono-color gods, and I am fine with that. I preferred the monochrome pantheon more anyhow. I am surprised they’re only doing one set for Theros, but part of me kinda likes that. I’d rather do one set and more frequent revisits than linger around. I hope we get more sea monster support with Batching, Sagas, and perhaps a cameo by Arixmethes (I really want to see more of the land he’s carrying, and perhaps get a legendary land card for it) and see what Thassa has been up to. Did Purphoros design her a Trident this time?
I wouldn’t mind Monstrosity returning, if they can bring back a third mechanic. Having an underworld aspect is what perplexes me - there’s no knowing what that could entail, which is exciting and very much a great creative liberty. Theros has a lot to do though - many legends to deliver, enchantments, Sagas, gods, Elspeth, underworld, etc. I hope one set can hit enough of those points.
Redeeming Zendikar is also very much welcome. I wish we could go there right after Theros and save Ikoria for Q4
I guess the big question is... will they be brave/stupid enough to stick the enemy fetches in Zendikar 3.0?
I know MaRo likes to cringe about fetches in Standard, but they may well have cleared the decks well enough to enable this to happen, for all I know.
I guess the big question is... will they be brave/stupid enough to stick the enemy fetches in Zendikar 3.0?
I know MaRo likes to cringe about fetches in Standard, but they may well have cleared the decks well enough to enable this to happen, for all I know.
I’ll never understand the reticence for decent mana-fixing in Standard. Is being able to cast the spells you want to cast such a detriment to the format? And if fetches are so overwhelmingly powerful then why aren’t they banned in any applicable format? Only Standard is allergic to proper mana bases?
I was super surprised by the off-hand announcement of all of next year's standard sets, but I'm not complaining. It's nice to see that this thread evolved into a constructive discussion after the doomsayers all belched out their bile on page 1....
Return to Theros:
The set symbol alone promises a focus on the underworld, and I could see the entire set focussing much more on Nyx as well, rather than the hero-vs-monster theme that was around last time. Elspeth in the underworld plotting revenge against the tyrannical Heliod and recruiting unlikely allies (Erebos etc), then herself ascending to godhood to replace Heliod? Yeah, I'm ready for this. Devotion is a given, since it is the mechanical link between the plane's inhabitants and the Gods/Nyx, which are the most prominent feature on Theros. I could see then dropping the enchantment-focus however.
Ikoria:
As a Timmy, yay. As a commander player, I am afraidthat the "build-your-own-monster" mechanic is so out there (MaRo implied this) that its parasitic and does not play well with other sets/themes. Lets see. I do like the sound of Monster world, so I'm hyped anyways.
Teferei Core set:
Well. I guess this is going to be a Teferi-themed set as much as M20 was a Chandra-themed set, so we don't have to be afraid of that. Curious to see a new set symbol for a core set, the last time we had that was origins, and that was supposed to be the segway into not having core sets anymore. Since than, core sets have felt much more like origins rather than the older core sets (I'm talking M10-M14 here). I wonder if all new core sets will have a clear theme with a custom set symbol.
Return to return to Zendikar:
Aah, finally. I was so sad to see Adventure world turn into Alien annihilation world. Glad to see them returning to the roots of what made Zendikar a cool plane in the first place. It was ceretainly not "being eaten by Eldrazi". For all the doomsayers claiming that Zendikar's only draw were the Eldrazi - thats not true at all. ZEN and WWK were much more popular than ROE; and BFZ + OGW proved that the Eldazi-theme was not what people wnted out of the return to Zendikar. Indiana Jones plane all the way =)
I guess the big question is... will they be brave/stupid enough to stick the enemy fetches in Zendikar 3.0?
I know MaRo likes to cringe about fetches in Standard, but they may well have cleared the decks well enough to enable this to happen, for all I know.
Ravnica will be gone so as long as there are no fetchable duals they could easily put them in the set without much issue. The enemy fetches need a real reprinting, and not in a limited set that costs $10 per pack.
How will they do a Godzilla set when the average creature should start around 10/10 at minimum?
The monsters probably start small and get bigger with this “build your own monster” mechanic.
Or they start out incapable of attacking or blocking (and likely being very difficult to remove from play) until certain conditions exist, or certain cards are played on them. So similar to Theros gods, but possibly without the animation condition being on the card itself?
Think of a massive potential-threat sitting on the board waiting for the right time to become an actual threat. Everyone sees it on the horizon coming, knows it's extremely difficult if not impossible to remove from play, and your opponents are hoping to defeat you before it arrives, or be able to slow it down (see: remove the things that currently allow it to attack/block) long enough to win.
This would even fit with the kaiju theme. How much of a kaiju film is watching the monster(s) wreck other things far away, or be on the move, vs the time spent with the monster(s) actually in the thick, fighting and destroying what's right around the audience's perspective?
Hell. Perhaps they even start off only able to affect other behemoths? Maybe they get to attack one another directly normally to accomplish some effect, but not players or planeswalkers, until cards allow them to attack the latter. This would allow them to be quite cheap with massive bodies, since behemoths are starting off only interacting with one another.
The looming distant threat slowly revealing what it's capable of, then finally having something set it off in a dangerous way, feels like something that's never been done (another thing MaRo said, this is a mechanic "they've never done before"), and also feels very kaiju to me.
How will they do a Godzilla set when the average creature should start around 10/10 at minimum?
The monsters probably start small and get bigger with this “build your own monster” mechanic.
This would even fit with the kaiju theme. How much of a kaiju film is watching the monster(s) wreck other things far away, or be on the move, vs the time spent with the monster(s) actually in the thick, fighting and destroying what's right around the audience's perspective?
The looming distant threat slowly revealing what it's capable of, then finally having something set it off in a dangerous way, feels like something that's never been done (another thing MaRo said, this is a mechanic "they've never done before"), and also feels very kaiju to me.
If this is truly a "Kaiju"set with all the above-mentioned flavor - I could see Suspend making a comeback. Much like Zendikar sets, there need to be a way to enable battlecruiser magic. Monsters will take forever to cast, no doubt, unless they start small and just grow with +1/+1 counters (booooring). Suspend could be a great mechanic to capture the flavor of a monster coming through a portal, or as @Wraithe mentioned, slowly approaching the coast from the ocean horizon. Much like Greater Gargadon, the suspend counters could be removed through certain accomplishments - sacrificing lands or artifacts, depending on the monsters. You could even ADD suspend counters to get an added effect - "If Kaiju is suspended, you may add a suspend counter to destroy target artifact" - etc.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I would say Devotion is a sure thing. Heroic was pretty underwhelming last time though, so they may just drop it.
How about constellation?
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It’s a very broad ability with a ton of applications so it’s probably more likely to return than not, IMO. And it was pretty underused last time around so they may want to use it again just because there’s SO MUCH design space left to explore with Constellation.
I'm going to call several shots here.. It will involve Animating lands. Man-lands, "Lands Matters" mechanics including Awaken. Elementals will be a major tribe. (solely b/c all Man lands are..yep..Elementals)
Storyline, the way they were setting things up mechanically, it sure felt like they intended it to be Zendikar *literally* coming to life and defeating the Eldrazi on its own behalf. Literally, the plane of Zendikar would come to life and repel the alien invaders itself. To save iteslf in a way other planes could not. That part is gone (mostly or entirely, depending on how many Eldrazi still remain) but I think the rest probably remains.
Mark my words, peeps.. This set was already built; they're taking it out of mothballs and putting it out next year. I've been waiting for this ever since OGW. STOKED!!
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Hear, hear. Aside from the usual +1/+1 counters, there's a lot they can do with Heroic, like more wide effects in the fashion of Phalanx Leader and Anax and Cymede. Heroic is easy to build around, as most sets have combat tricks and Auras with which to target your creatures. That said, if they wanted Heroes to have an "enchanted or equipped" theme this time, I wouldn't complain either as I love Equipment, and it's an excuse to bring back Bestow or introduce a similar mechanic, not to mention encourage putting more colored artifacts in the set to help with the Devotion theme. Since it's just one set this time, they can also bring back Constellation. I expect Sagas could return at uncommon and higher. I'd also love to see a greater focus on legendary cards, now that Dominaria showed us how to do it right.
I think fans fully expect Landfall itself to return in Zendikar, along with Allies. Since the Eldrazi aren't mucking everything up this time, they can go back to the more adventuresome feel of the original Zendikar and Worldwake. I could see a new spell mechanic called Roil that has you bounce a permanent you control as part of the cost, which would play splendidly with Landfall and Allies, not to mention Constellation if it should happen to return in Theros.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Prob just the monocolor ones though. I can't see them doing all 14.
If it is a sneak mission I can’t see the other gods doing much but I guess they would just make them to fill out the set.
Another possibility would be triads of gods, like “gods of the Underworld” with Erebos+Atheros+Phenax ; “Gods of the polis” with Heliod+Iroas+Ephara ;
I hope Devotion and Constellation appear. I wasn’t a fan of Heroic, Tribute or Inspired (the latter was the worst in the block) but Devotion and Constellation are just too on theme and celebrated to be left out. I agree we will likely only see the mono-color gods, and I am fine with that. I preferred the monochrome pantheon more anyhow. I am surprised they’re only doing one set for Theros, but part of me kinda likes that. I’d rather do one set and more frequent revisits than linger around. I hope we get more sea monster support with Batching, Sagas, and perhaps a cameo by Arixmethes (I really want to see more of the land he’s carrying, and perhaps get a legendary land card for it) and see what Thassa has been up to. Did Purphoros design her a Trident this time?
I wouldn’t mind Monstrosity returning, if they can bring back a third mechanic. Having an underworld aspect is what perplexes me - there’s no knowing what that could entail, which is exciting and very much a great creative liberty. Theros has a lot to do though - many legends to deliver, enchantments, Sagas, gods, Elspeth, underworld, etc. I hope one set can hit enough of those points.
Redeeming Zendikar is also very much welcome. I wish we could go there right after Theros and save Ikoria for Q4
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
This. The best Bestow card was just decent. I have no idea why they felt Bestow was so powerful that it needed to cost as much as two creatures.
I know MaRo likes to cringe about fetches in Standard, but they may well have cleared the decks well enough to enable this to happen, for all I know.
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I’ll never understand the reticence for decent mana-fixing in Standard. Is being able to cast the spells you want to cast such a detriment to the format? And if fetches are so overwhelmingly powerful then why aren’t they banned in any applicable format? Only Standard is allergic to proper mana bases?
Return to Theros:
The set symbol alone promises a focus on the underworld, and I could see the entire set focussing much more on Nyx as well, rather than the hero-vs-monster theme that was around last time. Elspeth in the underworld plotting revenge against the tyrannical Heliod and recruiting unlikely allies (Erebos etc), then herself ascending to godhood to replace Heliod? Yeah, I'm ready for this. Devotion is a given, since it is the mechanical link between the plane's inhabitants and the Gods/Nyx, which are the most prominent feature on Theros. I could see then dropping the enchantment-focus however.
Ikoria:
As a Timmy, yay. As a commander player, I am afraidthat the "build-your-own-monster" mechanic is so out there (MaRo implied this) that its parasitic and does not play well with other sets/themes. Lets see. I do like the sound of Monster world, so I'm hyped anyways.
Teferei Core set:
Well. I guess this is going to be a Teferi-themed set as much as M20 was a Chandra-themed set, so we don't have to be afraid of that. Curious to see a new set symbol for a core set, the last time we had that was origins, and that was supposed to be the segway into not having core sets anymore. Since than, core sets have felt much more like origins rather than the older core sets (I'm talking M10-M14 here). I wonder if all new core sets will have a clear theme with a custom set symbol.
Return to return to Zendikar:
Aah, finally. I was so sad to see Adventure world turn into Alien annihilation world. Glad to see them returning to the roots of what made Zendikar a cool plane in the first place. It was ceretainly not "being eaten by Eldrazi". For all the doomsayers claiming that Zendikar's only draw were the Eldrazi - thats not true at all. ZEN and WWK were much more popular than ROE; and BFZ + OGW proved that the Eldazi-theme was not what people wnted out of the return to Zendikar. Indiana Jones plane all the way =)
UR Mizzix of the Izmagnus ~~~ Build your own win-condition: Finite Spellslinging
UR Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer ~~~ We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own.
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic ~~~ A Guide to dying slowly
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose ~~~ Marchesa's undying Marionettes
RGW Mayael the Anima ~~~ All Hail the Big Chungus
GWU Chulane, Teller of Tales ~~~ Permanents Only ETB Shenanigans
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant ~~~ Sidisi's Restless Servants
WUBRG The Ur-Dragon ~~~ Dragons eat your face
The monsters probably start small and get bigger with this “build your own monster” mechanic.
Ravnica will be gone so as long as there are no fetchable duals they could easily put them in the set without much issue. The enemy fetches need a real reprinting, and not in a limited set that costs $10 per pack.
Or they start out incapable of attacking or blocking (and likely being very difficult to remove from play) until certain conditions exist, or certain cards are played on them. So similar to Theros gods, but possibly without the animation condition being on the card itself?
Think of a massive potential-threat sitting on the board waiting for the right time to become an actual threat. Everyone sees it on the horizon coming, knows it's extremely difficult if not impossible to remove from play, and your opponents are hoping to defeat you before it arrives, or be able to slow it down (see: remove the things that currently allow it to attack/block) long enough to win.
This would even fit with the kaiju theme. How much of a kaiju film is watching the monster(s) wreck other things far away, or be on the move, vs the time spent with the monster(s) actually in the thick, fighting and destroying what's right around the audience's perspective?
Hell. Perhaps they even start off only able to affect other behemoths? Maybe they get to attack one another directly normally to accomplish some effect, but not players or planeswalkers, until cards allow them to attack the latter. This would allow them to be quite cheap with massive bodies, since behemoths are starting off only interacting with one another.
The looming distant threat slowly revealing what it's capable of, then finally having something set it off in a dangerous way, feels like something that's never been done (another thing MaRo said, this is a mechanic "they've never done before"), and also feels very kaiju to me.
If this is truly a "Kaiju"set with all the above-mentioned flavor - I could see Suspend making a comeback. Much like Zendikar sets, there need to be a way to enable battlecruiser magic. Monsters will take forever to cast, no doubt, unless they start small and just grow with +1/+1 counters (booooring). Suspend could be a great mechanic to capture the flavor of a monster coming through a portal, or as @Wraithe mentioned, slowly approaching the coast from the ocean horizon. Much like Greater Gargadon, the suspend counters could be removed through certain accomplishments - sacrificing lands or artifacts, depending on the monsters. You could even ADD suspend counters to get an added effect - "If Kaiju is suspended, you may add a suspend counter to destroy target artifact" - etc.
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