Unbanning painter is bad. The potential early combo threat means more people will run eldrazi titans, which I thought these people didn't like? Painter combos with so much to break the game, far worse than iona. douse, ugin, the spirit dragon, llawan, cephalid empress, and so many game resets like omen of fire.
My main playgroup is probably going to stop using the official banlist.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Its not that Painter's Servant is too good, but how is Painter's Servant going to lead to fun, interactive, social, memorable games? It's primary use is infinite combo with Grindstone to immediately kill one player, and its secondary use it to pair with "fun" color-hosers of yore to lock people out of the game or destroy/bounce all permanents or somehow make the game miserable.
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"I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame."
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
cards like Grindstone are still legal in commander
Because who cares, there are plenty of other two-card combos in EDH, Painterstone isn't degenerate
Milling one opponents entire deck in one turn isn't degenerate?
Anyway, can't say I am surprised on either of the bans. Honestly, Iona should have been banned as soon as Dominaria was released due to one particular equipment in that set allowing you to effectively shut down all colors but white over the course of a few turns.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
I’m also pleased with Iona being banned for the reasons mentioned above. It truly is format warping, and being deprived of certain strategies and answers is downside enough in a singleton format to go monochrome. The format doesn’t need Iona to exacerbate that, and lock players out completely to sit and fester for an entire game simply for playing a chosen color. Too harsh. Her banishment will finally allow decks to open up space for genuine strategies and fun interactions that don’t involve fearing one card and stifling deck building for the sake of just being able to actually play.
So format warping hardly anyone plays her.
I had her in exactly one deck ever and eventually pulled her because she didn't do enough. lol
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
cards like Grindstone are still legal in commander
Because who cares, there are plenty of other two-card combos in EDH, Painterstone isn't degenerate
Milling one opponents entire deck in one turn isn't degenerate?
But that is already a thing with RIP+Helm, and that combo is eldrazi proof.
White isn't exactly the big mill color. Painters servant can go in phenax without effort as it already has leyline of the void, helm and often grindstone. I haven't even seen Iona in years so I really don't get why they ban something years and years after it was an issue.
cards like Grindstone are still legal in commander
Because who cares, there are plenty of other two-card combos in EDH, Painterstone isn't degenerate
Milling one opponents entire deck in one turn isn't degenerate?
But that is already a thing with RIP+Helm, and that combo is eldrazi proof.
White isn't exactly the big mill color. Painters servant can go in phenax without effort as it already has leyline of the void, helm and often grindstone. I haven't even seen Iona in years so I really don't get why they ban something years and years after it was an issue.
Maybe they know something we don't? Ominous foreshadowing..
But really, I could see it getting banned because in some cases it does just lock a player out of a game. Sure it might not be abundant in the format, but it probably happens enough where someone gets trapped too easily by it and cannot actually play a game of magic.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
The Iona ban is absolutely ridiculous. She's so innocuous I was laughing when I read the announcement. I still think Paradox Engine is fine and shouldn't be banned, but at least that card *was* legit broken if you're that kind of player. Banning Iona is just a sign to me that the rules committee has completely lost touch.
One vote of no confidence from me. I think Wizards should take the reins and come up with a ban list that makes at least a *little* bit of sense.
The Iona ban is absolutely ridiculous. She's so innocuous I was laughing when I read the announcement. I still think Paradox Engine is fine and shouldn't be banned, but at least that card *was* legit broken if you're that kind of player. Banning Iona is just a sign to me that the rules committee has completely lost touch.
One vote of no confidence from me. I think Wizards should take the reins and come up with a ban list that makes at least a *little* bit of sense.
Painter + Iona = lock everyone out.
Iona has already a bad reputation, this hard lock is too much.
Other thing that ppl seems to forget is that rip usually get put right into the game by zur, then tutor for helm and win, in most cases RIP is like in the command zone, so is a less fragile and more easy to assemble combo.
Yes there are some christmas magic land scenarios where you can assemble your two card combo by turn three, as you can flash hulk turn two, one can win the game right there one turn earlier, the other mills just one player a turn later.... if the more hardcore combo isn't banned, why the other should be???
The Iona ban is absolutely ridiculous. She's so innocuous I was laughing when I read the announcement. I still think Paradox Engine is fine and shouldn't be banned, but at least that card *was* legit broken if you're that kind of player. Banning Iona is just a sign to me that the rules committee has completely lost touch.
One vote of no confidence from me. I think Wizards should take the reins and come up with a ban list that makes at least a *little* bit of sense.
You should take a read on Sheldon's article on SCG.
Iona promotes exactly the kind of game play that the RC wants gone. Pengine is by far the worst offender on this list and that card lived on time borrowed out of the gate.
A lot of people seem to be confused about what the RC actually does.
The Iona ban is absolutely ridiculous. She's so innocuous I was laughing when I read the announcement. I still think Paradox Engine is fine and shouldn't be banned, but at least that card *was* legit broken if you're that kind of player. Banning Iona is just a sign to me that the rules committee has completely lost touch.
One vote of no confidence from me. I think Wizards should take the reins and come up with a ban list that makes at least a *little* bit of sense.
Painter + Iona = lock everyone out.
Iona has already a bad reputation, this hard lock is too much.
So don't unban Painter... pretty simple
Karn + Lattice is equally as nasty IMHO.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
The Iona ban is absolutely ridiculous. She's so innocuous I was laughing when I read the announcement. I still think Paradox Engine is fine and shouldn't be banned, but at least that card *was* legit broken if you're that kind of player. Banning Iona is just a sign to me that the rules committee has completely lost touch.
One vote of no confidence from me. I think Wizards should take the reins and come up with a ban list that makes at least a *little* bit of sense.
Painter + Iona = lock everyone out.
Iona has already a bad reputation, this hard lock is too much.
So don't unban Painter... pretty simple
Karn + Lattice is equally as nasty IMHO.
Not as much. Being a planeswalker and an artifact there is only 2 color that can possibly assemble the combo easy (blue using tutor for artifacts and black with universal tutors) (and being able to use nul rod that is easier to find than karn) (with red being almost possible with the artifact cards)(and lets face it nul rod was a thing before karn) but we have to remember that for this to happen for the non black deck the deck needs to be build around too much.
For the Iona and painter for exemple you need white black or green to “cheat Iona into play” also you need to remember how easy it is to generate resources in graveyard. But ye if we are technical Karn and Latice does the same as Iona and painter but Karn and latice is much harder to assemble than a 2 creature combo. And Iona was usually played as the random reanimator target that sometimes happened to lock people out of the game without the need of outside help, a one card combo is usually better than a card that combos with other cards usually and the amount of people defending Iona as fair for a combo format says enough about the card
The Iona ban is absolutely ridiculous. She's so innocuous I was laughing when I read the announcement. I still think Paradox Engine is fine and shouldn't be banned, but at least that card *was* legit broken if you're that kind of player. Banning Iona is just a sign to me that the rules committee has completely lost touch.
One vote of no confidence from me. I think Wizards should take the reins and come up with a ban list that makes at least a *little* bit of sense.
Painter + Iona = lock everyone out.
Iona has already a bad reputation, this hard lock is too much.
So don't unban Painter... pretty simple
Karn + Lattice is equally as nasty IMHO.
Not as much. Being a planeswalker and an artifact there is only 2 color that can possibly assemble the combo easy (blue using tutor for artifacts and black with universal tutors) (and being able to use nul rod that is easier to find than karn) (with red being almost possible with the artifact cards)(and lets face it nul rod was a thing before karn) but we have to remember that for this to happen for the non black deck the deck needs to be build around too much.
For the Iona and painter for exemple you need white black or green to “cheat Iona into play” also you need to remember how easy it is to generate resources in graveyard. But ye if we are technical Karn and Latice does the same as Iona and painter but Karn and latice is much harder to assemble than a 2 creature combo. And Iona was usually played as the random reanimator target that sometimes happened to lock people out of the game without the need of outside help, a one card combo is usually better than a card that combos with other cards usually and the amount of people defending Iona as fair for a combo format says enough about the card
White can tutor for planeswalkers and has one tutor for artifacts, though.
I can't say anything about your environment but she isn't play often here. She isn't a random reanimator target. She has the potential to lock out players but she isn't a guaranteed lock. When reading some of the comments here you can thing that she does that every time. Apart from this I asked my game group and they are okay with her. She wasn't a problem in the past and they don't think she will be in the future. So I will continue to use her. I will exchange her with another card when playing 'outside'.
The Iona ban is absolutely ridiculous. She's so innocuous I was laughing when I read the announcement. I still think Paradox Engine is fine and shouldn't be banned, but at least that card *was* legit broken if you're that kind of player. Banning Iona is just a sign to me that the rules committee has completely lost touch.
One vote of no confidence from me. I think Wizards should take the reins and come up with a ban list that makes at least a *little* bit of sense.
you're sociopaths and I'm glad that I never have to sit down and be locked out of the game for 2 hours while I watch you play tbh
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Nope
Unwinding clock is a loophole of paradox engine it’s not out of the blue yet
Besides you can easily do stax with urza
and every single artifact with a 0 cost is essentially mox sapphire
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
Because who cares, there are plenty of other two-card combos in EDH, Painterstone isn't degenerate
Milling one opponents entire deck in one turn isn't degenerate?
Anyway, can't say I am surprised on either of the bans. Honestly, Iona should have been banned as soon as Dominaria was released due to one particular equipment in that set allowing you to effectively shut down all colors but white over the course of a few turns.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Not in a 99 card singleton format that has tons of other game-winning combos
yeah but this one happens on turn 3 in colorless
All you need is cloudstone curio esc card and 2 0 cost artifacts that’s it
But that is already a thing with RIP+Helm, and that combo is eldrazi proof.
So format warping hardly anyone plays her.
I had her in exactly one deck ever and eventually pulled her because she didn't do enough. lol
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Cloudstone Curio doesn't combo with artifacts. Urza only taps artifacts. I don't see how this works.
There are plenty of infinite mana combos, even without PE.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
That’s why I said esc affects
It doesn’t hit artifacts but there’s are lots of cards printed so you can bounce your artifacts for free
White isn't exactly the big mill color. Painters servant can go in phenax without effort as it already has leyline of the void, helm and often grindstone. I haven't even seen Iona in years so I really don't get why they ban something years and years after it was an issue.
Maybe they know something we don't? Ominous foreshadowing..
But really, I could see it getting banned because in some cases it does just lock a player out of a game. Sure it might not be abundant in the format, but it probably happens enough where someone gets trapped too easily by it and cannot actually play a game of magic.
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~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
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Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Yeah still not overly degenerate
One vote of no confidence from me. I think Wizards should take the reins and come up with a ban list that makes at least a *little* bit of sense.
Painter + Iona = lock everyone out.
Iona has already a bad reputation, this hard lock is too much.
Other thing that ppl seems to forget is that rip usually get put right into the game by zur, then tutor for helm and win, in most cases RIP is like in the command zone, so is a less fragile and more easy to assemble combo.
Yes there are some christmas magic land scenarios where you can assemble your two card combo by turn three, as you can flash hulk turn two, one can win the game right there one turn earlier, the other mills just one player a turn later.... if the more hardcore combo isn't banned, why the other should be???
You should take a read on Sheldon's article on SCG.
Iona promotes exactly the kind of game play that the RC wants gone. Pengine is by far the worst offender on this list and that card lived on time borrowed out of the gate.
A lot of people seem to be confused about what the RC actually does.
So don't unban Painter... pretty simple
Karn + Lattice is equally as nasty IMHO.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Not as much. Being a planeswalker and an artifact there is only 2 color that can possibly assemble the combo easy (blue using tutor for artifacts and black with universal tutors) (and being able to use nul rod that is easier to find than karn) (with red being almost possible with the artifact cards)(and lets face it nul rod was a thing before karn) but we have to remember that for this to happen for the non black deck the deck needs to be build around too much.
For the Iona and painter for exemple you need white black or green to “cheat Iona into play” also you need to remember how easy it is to generate resources in graveyard. But ye if we are technical Karn and Latice does the same as Iona and painter but Karn and latice is much harder to assemble than a 2 creature combo. And Iona was usually played as the random reanimator target that sometimes happened to lock people out of the game without the need of outside help, a one card combo is usually better than a card that combos with other cards usually and the amount of people defending Iona as fair for a combo format says enough about the card
White can tutor for planeswalkers and has one tutor for artifacts, though.
I can't say anything about your environment but she isn't play often here. She isn't a random reanimator target. She has the potential to lock out players but she isn't a guaranteed lock. When reading some of the comments here you can thing that she does that every time. Apart from this I asked my game group and they are okay with her. She wasn't a problem in the past and they don't think she will be in the future. So I will continue to use her. I will exchange her with another card when playing 'outside'.
you're sociopaths and I'm glad that I never have to sit down and be locked out of the game for 2 hours while I watch you play tbh