So, we've had a Robot Zombie and a Zombie Ninja. Now, we need a Robot Pirate, a Robot Ninja, a Zombie Pirate, and a Pirate Ninja.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Wait... As far as I can remember Zombies weren't a thing in Kamigawa (I'm assuming it is from there, I don't think WotC would make another feudal japan plane just for a couple cards).
Yeah everything should have costed 0, or 1 cmc, independent of the actual powerlevel...
Seems a weird position to take, but hey if thats what you think.
Ok mr. passionate, mind sharing with the group which cmc would have been 'acceptable' for you on this card, and which cmc would make you LOVE the card.
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Give credit, where credit is due. Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found. The whip is kept for special occasions
The Internet was a revelation to me, I never imagined there are so many idiots on this planet.
Yeah everything should have costed 0, or 1 cmc, independent of the actual powerlevel...
Seems a weird position to take, but hey if thats what you think.
Ok mr. passionate, mind sharing with the group which cmc would have been 'acceptable' for you on this card, and which cmc would make you LOVE the card.
Drop the stats (3/2 or something), the effect is super strong (until you whiff and hit a land and an Expedition Map), put the Ninjitsu at 3cmc (1UB), and the actual cast cost at 4.
4 Mana is the big stuff in Modern, its what ends games. Keeping something attacking AND hold 4 mana? Or just hard cast at 5? Nah.
Drop the stats (3/2 or something), the effect is super strong (until you whiff and hit a land and an Expedition Map), put the Ninjitsu at 3cmc (1UB), and the actual cast cost at 4.
4 Mana is the big stuff in Modern, its what ends games. Keeping something attacking AND hold 4 mana? Or just hard cast at 5? Nah.
Dude, 2 mana evasive beater into a 3 mana nearly unblockable, uncounterable guy with a relevant body that can randomly win you the game on the spot against some decks sounds like the most frustrating thing ever. I'm not saying that it COULDN'T cost 3... I'm saying it SHOULDN'T cost 3.
1. How is it unblockable? Just..block, or kill the board.
2. Uncounterable, thats the perk.
3. Win on the spot? VERY unlikely. What Tier 1 decks does this 'win on the spot' if it connects, in Modern.
I mean just so we are clear. I'm looking at Modern Horizon's from a MODERN format perspective. I'm not shook by this card.
Well this is strong, better than the oni. The only problem now is that now we have no archetype that can play this in modern (at least from the most popular )(unless you use in death shadow I guess) maybe faeries or a rogues deck. Lets see if it sees play.
....
3. Win on the spot? VERY unlikely. What Tier 1 decks does this 'win on the spot' if it connects, in Modern.
I mean just so we are clear. I'm looking at Modern Horizon's from a MODERN format perspective. I'm not shook by this card.
Quote from from ="idSurge »
4 Mana is the big stuff in Modern, its what ends games
Which is it, cards are so powerfull that even at 4 cmc they end games?
Or there are no cards in modern so powerfull that if you cast them for FREE they end you the game.
How about a Karn, wurmcoil, ugin, Eldrazi hit? You think thats game ending enough?
What if i hit a grizzlebrand, you think that will do it?
A free primeval titan good enough for you?
Free teferi and cryptic command?
God im so happy that so many of you people do not design these cards and decide what cmc cards should be, magic would be a wreck.
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Give credit, where credit is due. Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found. The whip is kept for special occasions
The Internet was a revelation to me, I never imagined there are so many idiots on this planet.
Well this is strong, better than the oni. The only problem now is that now we have no archetype that can play this in modern (at least from the most popular )(unless you use in death shadow I guess) maybe faeries or a rogues deck. Lets see if it sees play.
1. How is it unblockable? Just..block, or kill the board.
I don't thin you read it fully. A 2 mana evasive beater can be Ninjutsu'd into this after the Declare Blockers step. You could get anything with ~2 CMC and evasion and it would be hard to stop, but if you want to be 100% sure about it, go Invisible Stalker. By doing so your only possible interaction is being untapped and having an Instant-speed answer.
3. Win on the spot? VERY unlikely. What Tier 1 decks does this 'win on the spot' if it connects, in Modern.
Tron is the obvious one - hit Karn/Ugin and unless an opponent has Natural Turn 3 Tron, he's done for. But both Amulet Titan and UW Control have it pretty hard - you can steal a Primeval Titan / Hornet Queen from Titan, a Teferi from UW or even a Cryptic Command and start bouncing lands to out-tempo your opponent.
Even then, the Tier 1 argument is extremely dumb. Yes, Phoenix and Humans are more about low-cost threats rather than big single spells. So why should we print an extremely powerful card that pushes the low-tier decks down even further? That makes zero sense and is counter-productive to the format's health.
....
3. Win on the spot? VERY unlikely. What Tier 1 decks does this 'win on the spot' if it connects, in Modern.
I mean just so we are clear. I'm looking at Modern Horizon's from a MODERN format perspective. I'm not shook by this card.
Quote from from ="idSurge »
4 Mana is the big stuff in Modern, its what ends games
Which is it, cards are so powerfull that even at 4 cmc they end games?
Or there are no cards in modern so powerfull that if you cast them for FREE they end you the game.
How about a Karn, wurmcoil, ugin, Eldrazi hit? You think thats game ending enough?
What if i hit a grizzlebrand, you think that will do it?
A free primeval titan good enough for you?
Free teferi and cryptic command?
God im so happy that so many of you people do not design these cards and decide what cmc cards should be, magic would be a wreck.
Against Tron - You are more likely to hit a Map, Egg, Land, than any of the big hitters.
Against Prime Time - You are more likely to hit a land, or ramp spell.
Against UW - You hit a counter, a cantrip, a land.
Against Grishoalbrand - Well lets just say the odds of hitting the 4 of in a deck is low. You instead hit a cantrip, or loot/discard spell.
This is again assuming you are lucky enough to land an evasive threat, and keep it on the board, and swing unblocked with 4 mana open.
Dont tell me this card poses any kind of potential against the top of the format, it does not.
Even then, the Tier 1 argument is extremely dumb. Yes, Phoenix and Humans are more about low-cost threats rather than big single spells. So why should we print an extremely powerful card that pushes the low-tier decks down even further? That makes zero sense and is counter-productive to the format's health.
Enjoy playing against the Tier 2 Jank with this then. Tier 1 is what matters, as its what you play against online and at events where balance, cmc, and potential matters.
This is not a playable card in Modern constructed.
Even then, the Tier 1 argument is extremely dumb. Yes, Phoenix and Humans are more about low-cost threats rather than big single spells. So why should we print an extremely powerful card that pushes the low-tier decks down even further? That makes zero sense and is counter-productive to the format's health.
Enjoy playing against the Tier 2 Jank with this then. Tier 1 is what matters, as its what you play against online and at events where balance, cmc, and potential matters.
This is not a playable card in Modern constructed.
You're either incapable of reading or just grasping at straws. You're saying this card should be printed at 3 CMC. I said that maybe it could, but it shouldn't, because it would bring nothing to the format other than random Turn 3 wins against a wide plethora of decks. Your argument is that Tier 1 decks in the Modern format would still not be affected by it, and that Tier 1 is all that matters.
Then, once again, we come back to the original issue: Why should WotC ever print a 1UB version of this? It contributes nothing for/against the Tier 1 which, as you said, is the only thing that matters, and pushes T2 and down lower even further. So what good this brings to the Modern format, except making it even more of a inbred mess full of the same 4~5 decks than it already is?
This is not a playable card in Modern constructed.
The problem is that you do not understand why this card is not 'playable' in constructed.
High variance cards will nearly always be costed and designed in magic in such a way that its very unlikely to be constructed playable.
If a high variance card is playable, it nearly always is borderline broken. The best example of that is Delver of Secrets Which is such an incredible high upside if it flips, that the variance is worth designing a deck around.
If you want cards that can indeed instantly win you the game, if you roll the magic dice correctly, you should play hearthstone. Not magic.
And yes, 3 cmc ninjutsu for you being able to play 2 cards potentialy for free, no matter what the cards are aside from land, would be broken the moment you hit.
Even if you hit reflector mage + mantis rider against a human deck turn 3, your opponent most likely will tap out.
Cards like this are designed with high variance high rolls in mind, not average rolls. The high variance is already that it lets you cast cards for free by 'only' seeing 2 cards.
TLDR: Four cmc is the most agressive you can cost something like this, anything lower and you not only increase the odds of it hitting multiple times, it doesnt even matter what you hit because it would be the best card advantage AND tempo creature ever printed.
TLDR: Four cmc is the most agressive you can cost something like this, anything lower and you not only increase the odds of it hitting multiple times, it doesnt even matter what you hit because it would be the best card advantage AND tempo creature ever printed.
This is probably fair. I see enough disadvantage, that if this was to be modern playable 4 is simply too much, but thats because the bar to being playable is essentially 'this card is a mistake.'.
TLDR: Four cmc is the most agressive you can cost something like this, anything lower and you not only increase the odds of it hitting multiple times, it doesnt even matter what you hit because it would be the best card advantage AND tempo creature ever printed.
This is probably fair. I see enough disadvantage, that if this was to be modern playable 4 is simply too much, but thats because the bar to being playable is essentially 'this card is a mistake.'.
This card is completely NOT a mistake, I can assure you on that.
This is one of those cards clearly designed with Commander in mind. High cmc, fat body, splashy unpredictable ability, relevant tribes that need support for the format....yeah, that's 100% EDH.
If you want to see modern playable cards, go to see the new cmc2 Planeswalker, do not whine in this thread please.
I see enough disadvantage, that if this was to be modern playable 4 is simply too much, but thats because the bar to being playable is essentially 'this card is a mistake.'.
Except it's not. It's a Timmy card, it's not supposed to be efficient, it's supposed to be exciting. It will still, however, win games in Modern, even if just by stealing a huge mana bomb from Tron in some rogue player's janky deck, and that's fine as well. Remember: "If you think X is a mistake, maybe X is just not made for you".
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Yeah everything should have costed 0, or 1 cmc, independent of the actual powerlevel...
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
See Reef Pirates (oracled).
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
Terminator 2, more like it.
Seems a weird position to take, but hey if thats what you think.
Spirits
Ok mr. passionate, mind sharing with the group which cmc would have been 'acceptable' for you on this card, and which cmc would make you LOVE the card.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
Drop the stats (3/2 or something), the effect is super strong (until you whiff and hit a land and an Expedition Map), put the Ninjitsu at 3cmc (1UB), and the actual cast cost at 4.
4 Mana is the big stuff in Modern, its what ends games. Keeping something attacking AND hold 4 mana? Or just hard cast at 5? Nah.
Spirits
1. How is it unblockable? Just..block, or kill the board.
2. Uncounterable, thats the perk.
3. Win on the spot? VERY unlikely. What Tier 1 decks does this 'win on the spot' if it connects, in Modern.
I mean just so we are clear. I'm looking at Modern Horizon's from a MODERN format perspective. I'm not shook by this card.
Spirits
Which is it, cards are so powerfull that even at 4 cmc they end games?
Or there are no cards in modern so powerfull that if you cast them for FREE they end you the game.
How about a Karn, wurmcoil, ugin, Eldrazi hit? You think thats game ending enough?
What if i hit a grizzlebrand, you think that will do it?
A free primeval titan good enough for you?
Free teferi and cryptic command?
God im so happy that so many of you people do not design these cards and decide what cmc cards should be, magic would be a wreck.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
Shadow will kill you before 4 Mana.
Spirits
Tron is the obvious one - hit Karn/Ugin and unless an opponent has Natural Turn 3 Tron, he's done for. But both Amulet Titan and UW Control have it pretty hard - you can steal a Primeval Titan / Hornet Queen from Titan, a Teferi from UW or even a Cryptic Command and start bouncing lands to out-tempo your opponent.
Even then, the Tier 1 argument is extremely dumb. Yes, Phoenix and Humans are more about low-cost threats rather than big single spells. So why should we print an extremely powerful card that pushes the low-tier decks down even further? That makes zero sense and is counter-productive to the format's health.
Against Tron - You are more likely to hit a Map, Egg, Land, than any of the big hitters.
Against Prime Time - You are more likely to hit a land, or ramp spell.
Against UW - You hit a counter, a cantrip, a land.
Against Grishoalbrand - Well lets just say the odds of hitting the 4 of in a deck is low. You instead hit a cantrip, or loot/discard spell.
This is again assuming you are lucky enough to land an evasive threat, and keep it on the board, and swing unblocked with 4 mana open.
Dont tell me this card poses any kind of potential against the top of the format, it does not.
Enjoy playing against the Tier 2 Jank with this then. Tier 1 is what matters, as its what you play against online and at events where balance, cmc, and potential matters.
This is not a playable card in Modern constructed.
Spirits
Then, once again, we come back to the original issue: Why should WotC ever print a 1UB version of this? It contributes nothing for/against the Tier 1 which, as you said, is the only thing that matters, and pushes T2 and down lower even further. So what good this brings to the Modern format, except making it even more of a inbred mess full of the same 4~5 decks than it already is?
The problem is that you do not understand why this card is not 'playable' in constructed.
High variance cards will nearly always be costed and designed in magic in such a way that its very unlikely to be constructed playable.
If a high variance card is playable, it nearly always is borderline broken. The best example of that is Delver of Secrets Which is such an incredible high upside if it flips, that the variance is worth designing a deck around.
If you want cards that can indeed instantly win you the game, if you roll the magic dice correctly, you should play hearthstone. Not magic.
And yes, 3 cmc ninjutsu for you being able to play 2 cards potentialy for free, no matter what the cards are aside from land, would be broken the moment you hit.
Even if you hit reflector mage + mantis rider against a human deck turn 3, your opponent most likely will tap out.
Cards like this are designed with high variance high rolls in mind, not average rolls. The high variance is already that it lets you cast cards for free by 'only' seeing 2 cards.
TLDR: Four cmc is the most agressive you can cost something like this, anything lower and you not only increase the odds of it hitting multiple times, it doesnt even matter what you hit because it would be the best card advantage AND tempo creature ever printed.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
This is probably fair. I see enough disadvantage, that if this was to be modern playable 4 is simply too much, but thats because the bar to being playable is essentially 'this card is a mistake.'.
Spirits
This card is completely NOT a mistake, I can assure you on that.
This is one of those cards clearly designed with Commander in mind. High cmc, fat body, splashy unpredictable ability, relevant tribes that need support for the format....yeah, that's 100% EDH.
If you want to see modern playable cards, go to see the new cmc2 Planeswalker, do not whine in this thread please.