Er...how is that thing real? A Plague Wind for planeswalkers for two mana and no downsides? Something tells me that thing is gonna get banned in many Commander groups, you can grief the entire table for a paltry two mana. Not to mention it sounds stupid-good in Standard, and absolutely busted in Limited, imagine playing dropping 2 of your walkers in Sealed and then getting hit with that, eating a 2-for-1 while your opponent also pumps their own walker.
And yeah,the art in Deliver unto Evil is amazing, feels as what some ancient chronicles would use to illustrate that part of the story, amazing job.
There's no sense in comparing this card to Plague Wind...Prophecy was a very different time in the game with a very different concept of power levels.
The elder spell is ridiculous. The planeswalker card type doesn't really need this kind of hate. I think I pass on playing any planeswalker in limited or at least not more than one at time.
Strikes me as a silly idea. Why play around a card you aren't even sure your opponent has in the deck?
Edit: I'd like to see a deck that runs a bunch of planeswalkers so they can Elderspell their own PWs and ult one of their remaining PWs. If the opponent plays any of their own PWs then they'll just become lunch for your ult target as an added bonus.
the elderspell has a shockingly pushed mana cost for the effect (ironically this makes it even stronger than the cruel ultimatum remake some people were expecting)
thankfully its just as narrow. wonder if this scares players out of playing walkers in standard
deliver unto evil has combo potential, perhaps in storm?
nicol bolas of course, has a very exciting design. should be interesting to see in actual matches. someone somewhere should pull off the elderspell into ultimate play and it will be glorious
The Elderspell, broken? Are you kidding me? Your opponent needs to have 2+ planeswalkers in play for this to be card advantage, and even so, they'll already have gotten at least 2 effects out of those walkers, which may very well negate the card advantage.
On top of that, it's double black, meaning that it's a hoser card with a restrictive mana cost.
The art of Deliver Unto Evil reminds me of a Greek Orthodox icon, like portraits of saints or scenes from the Bible. Considering Bolas is trying to become a god, that art and the name (which echoes the Lord's Prayer) make a ton of sense.
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Pretty sure that's just a nameless unknown walker. Clothing looks like Ral but hair doesn't, like they deliberately made it not quite anyone we've met.
That Seb art on Deliver though!
The Elderspell, broken? Are you kidding me? Your opponent needs to have 2+ planeswalkers in play for this to be card advantage, and even so, they'll already have gotten at least 2 effects out of those walkers, which may very well negate the card advantage.
On top of that, it's double black, meaning that it's a hoser card with a restrictive mana cost.
Jesus, the overreactions on this subforum.
Also add in you also need to have your own planeswalker to get the full effect.
Honesty I think this a great card for this kind of set since everyone will mostly be playing at least one planeswalker. It also will help balance out super friends decks in things like commander (as well as a likely addition since you can sac your own walkers to put more on another for Johnny/Jennny fun).
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The elder spell is ridiculous. The planeswalker card type doesn't really need this kind of hate. I think I pass on playing any planeswalker in limited or at least not more than one at time.
Your reaction tells me they made this card absolutely perfect. If you're going to stuff a set full of PW's, you NEED some easy, cheap ways to answer them. Spot removal won't get you there. You need some MASS removal options too. I mean...you might even put in some ways that really do punish a foolish player who just floods the board with PW's every single game. Incidentally, its the same reason 'busted/unfair' Wrath of God exists: There's a price to be paid for being too aggressive...so don't do it.
TL;DR: If you look at Elder Spell and it makes you stop and pause. "Wow. Is it worth it to play a bunch of PW's in my deck? Yikes. Maybe not..", then guess what...this is exactly why this card was printed.
lol, people are freaking out about an unplayable card.
Cards that only kill planeswalkers are useless, y'all. That's why they needed to add the loyalty bonus...
I see The Elderspell and even if it's ridiculously broken, I don't care....
I just go ahead thinking about the crazy jankyness you can achieve with it.
1: Have any gideon in play.
2: target him with Spark Double
3: transform the copy to a creature and target it with Mirrorweave
4: cast The Elderspell and laugh like a madman.
Wtf? Destroy all creatures you don't control costs 9 mana, but destroy all planeswalkers you don't control only costs 2? Except The Elder Spell is even better than that because it also puts extra loyalty counters on any planeswalker you happen to have.
Yeah, this card is literally and deliberately broken.
To be fair most decks always have creatires, planeswalkers, especially in abundance, are more scarce of a card to be on the field, and in garruk's wake cost the same as Plague Wind and it also destroys all planeswalkers you don't control. This card is good and I love it but I don't think it is absurd. I could be proven wrong though depending on how standard shakes out.
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Commander: UBG Tasigur, the lab enabler UR Planeswalker Control UBRW Breya's personal box of combos BRW Vampire beats, by Dre 1 Karn, where all lands are command towers UBR Inalla's Venser lock UBRGW Atog Atog contraption tribal WUB Xur's second chance UGW Derivi, bird tribal R Brother's Yamazaki BRG Prosh, the scourge of multiplayer GW Capt. Sisay's Deck Dumping Service UB All Your Spells do Belong to Me UG Tapioca Pearl BG Meren's grinder
I think it's Ral. If it's Teyo, then we have our Kole. Which kinda makes sense, given their powers.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I actually don't think this is that big of a deal.
BB is a restrictive mana cost. Most walkers are going to be coming down later in the game which is when you want to be casting this, it may not be a huge issue, B has to be your decks primary or secondary color to hit this on time. We have no fixing currently, so running B as a tertiary color and this is going to be too risky.
While a lot of these walkers are great for modern, plenty of them are luke warm in standard. Further moreita kinda nice to have some sort of potential catch up mechanic to 4 cmc teferi into 5 cmc teferi for non UWx control in standard.
This is unplayable in modern. I think jund and tron run the most walkers are 6ish and you can throw much larger roadblocks in front of them first (blood moon).
It's a safety valve for standard. At rare I can see this being kinda bomby in limited but there is always a huge delta in limited playability for rares. Heck lands in particular tend to wheel in draft at my LGS from the try hards.
Yeah if your opponent curves 2-3 walkers together and you drop a good to great walker with a relevant ultimate and this in one turn, sure the blowouts. I am highly skeptical I'll ever see this.
Graveyards, artifacts, enchantments the stack, library, creatures all have had similarly costed removal for specialized cases.
Dear Wizards: Please stop needlessly complexifying the game (Legendary Sorceries) if you don't really intend to re-use tools on a consistent basis. Otherwise, just don't do it. Okay?
Two plausible reasons:
1. From a meta perspective WAR is a mechanically dense set chock full of tribal synergies, superfriends support, the set's own keywords, and callbacks to a plethora of old ability words. There just isn't space for another set's mechanic, and randomly sticking in keyworded set mechanics from other sets isn't something they normally do, anyways. Tezzeret, at least, gets a pass for affinity by being a promo accessible only to players who buy singles or boxes of cards (that is, experienced players), but The Elder Spell is going to be in booster packs opended by new players, who already have a lot to learn in this set.
2. From a flavor perspective, look who's doing this: the eternals. Bolas isn't running around ripping sparks out himself; he's using his minions for this. It's THE Elder Spell because that's the function that Bolas imbued into his eternals, but you can't actually call a spell legendary after it has been mass-produced.
The Elderspell, broken? Are you kidding me? Your opponent needs to have 2+ planeswalkers in play for this to be card advantage, and even so, they'll already have gotten at least 2 effects out of those walkers, which may very well negate the card advantage.
On top of that, it's double black, meaning that it's a hoser card with a restrictive mana cost.
Jesus, the overreactions on this subforum.
The fact that it is perfectly acceptable single target PW removal that ALSO lets you come back from a walker deficit in what could be a PW heavy environment without taking additional slots in your deck is amazing, but yeah, being PW only makes it hard to maindeck more than a couple copies even if PWs are everywhere. The biggest upside to this card is that it is a pretty beastly combo piece in a deck that is already PW heavy. For the right list, you can win the game with UBBBBBR which is pretty in line with what your should be getting if you are spending 7+ mana at sorcery speed, but the ability to break it into parts is what makes it interesting to explore. Might turn out not to be viable, aggro and control are both pretty good right now and this is a combo deck that would have to play attackable permanents to the board early and often, but if this card defines the format, that seems more likely to be the reason. This card does make playing the uncommon planeswalkers with no plus abilities in multiples a bit more attractive as well as you can sac redundant copies to build up another or something like Vraska, Relic Seeker.
Deliver Unto Evil feels incredibly strong to me. At worst you're paying 3 mana to recover 2 cards (and it doesn't say different names so if you have 3 of the same card in your yard you're guarantied to get one. If this is late in the game and you've got a bolas out it's basically quadruple Demonic tutor for 3 mana lol.
Deliver Unto Evil feels incredibly strong to me. At worst you're paying 3 mana to recover 2 cards (and it doesn't say different names so if you have 3 of the same card in your yard you're guarantied to get one. If this is late in the game and you've got a bolas out it's basically quadruple Demonic tutor for 3 mana lol.
Deliver unto evil is super sweet! I love the ability almost as much as I love the creepy art, it is just sick and its floor seems really high since you can target multiple copies of the same card. I am super excited for this card! can't wait to just chain them together with a Bolas out, like it might be magical christmas land but the value is just amazing!
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Commander: UBG Tasigur, the lab enabler UR Planeswalker Control UBRW Breya's personal box of combos BRW Vampire beats, by Dre 1 Karn, where all lands are command towers UBR Inalla's Venser lock UBRGW Atog Atog contraption tribal WUB Xur's second chance UGW Derivi, bird tribal R Brother's Yamazaki BRG Prosh, the scourge of multiplayer GW Capt. Sisay's Deck Dumping Service UB All Your Spells do Belong to Me UG Tapioca Pearl BG Meren's grinder
Elderspell is perfectly fine... for now. In fact, it’s pretty bad outside of Standard and EDH... for now. This is a card that can become completely and totally busted 5 years from now when PWs are a lot more common. The fact is it can be totally dead in many board states. But I’d invest in them now if you care about that kind of thing. It’s really good SB tech in black heavy decks.
Your reaction tells me they made this card absolutely perfect. If you're going to stuff a set full of PW's, you NEED some easy, cheap ways to answer them. Spot removal won't get you there. You need some MASS removal options too. I mean...you might even put in some ways that really do punish a foolish player who just floods the board with PW's every single game. Incidentally, its the same reason 'busted/unfair' Wrath of God exists: There's a price to be paid for being too aggressive...so don't do it.
I agree up until the end. You don't just "not do it". You weigh the risks and the rewards. Some games you have to just hope your opponent doesn't have *** (or the elderspell) because you can't realistically beat them if they do, and you want the best chance if they don't. Or you can be aware of the risks during deckbuilding and give yourself answers in the form of counterspells, indestructibles, or what have you. It's all a balance of risk and reward, not a simple "Don't do that thing because there's a good counter to it".
Pretty sure that's just a nameless unknown walker. Clothing looks like Ral but hair doesn't, like they deliberately made it not quite anyone we've met.
That Seb art on Deliver though!
Seb has come out of nowhere to become one of my favorite artists. Literally everything he's done has been a masterpiece, especially since Dominaria.
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There's no sense in comparing this card to Plague Wind...Prophecy was a very different time in the game with a very different concept of power levels.
Strikes me as a silly idea. Why play around a card you aren't even sure your opponent has in the deck?
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It's a dead card in many matchups, not worth main decking in constructed.
+1: Destroy a card in hand or on the battlefield.
-3: Destroy a creature or planeswalker.
-8: Destroy one (or more) opponents.
In standard, can grief-more with Nicol Bolas, the Ravager turn 4, Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God turn 5, flip Ravager to be Nicol Bolas, the Arisen turn 7. Or earlier with ramp. Could make for a brutal mid-range Grixis deck?
Edit: I'd like to see a deck that runs a bunch of planeswalkers so they can Elderspell their own PWs and ult one of their remaining PWs. If the opponent plays any of their own PWs then they'll just become lunch for your ult target as an added bonus.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
thankfully its just as narrow. wonder if this scares players out of playing walkers in standard
deliver unto evil has combo potential, perhaps in storm?
nicol bolas of course, has a very exciting design. should be interesting to see in actual matches. someone somewhere should pull off the elderspell into ultimate play and it will be glorious
On top of that, it's double black, meaning that it's a hoser card with a restrictive mana cost.
Jesus, the overreactions on this subforum.
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Why isn't it Legendary though.
No, really. Why isn't "The Elderspell" Legendary.
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Pretty sure that's just a nameless unknown walker. Clothing looks like Ral but hair doesn't, like they deliberately made it not quite anyone we've met.
That Seb art on Deliver though!
Also add in you also need to have your own planeswalker to get the full effect.
Honesty I think this a great card for this kind of set since everyone will mostly be playing at least one planeswalker. It also will help balance out super friends decks in things like commander (as well as a likely addition since you can sac your own walkers to put more on another for Johnny/Jennny fun).
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Your reaction tells me they made this card absolutely perfect. If you're going to stuff a set full of PW's, you NEED some easy, cheap ways to answer them. Spot removal won't get you there. You need some MASS removal options too. I mean...you might even put in some ways that really do punish a foolish player who just floods the board with PW's every single game. Incidentally, its the same reason 'busted/unfair' Wrath of God exists: There's a price to be paid for being too aggressive...so don't do it.
TL;DR: If you look at Elder Spell and it makes you stop and pause. "Wow. Is it worth it to play a bunch of PW's in my deck? Yikes. Maybe not..", then guess what...this is exactly why this card was printed.
I'm pretty impressed. 2 mana is good.
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Cards that only kill planeswalkers are useless, y'all. That's why they needed to add the loyalty bonus...
I just go ahead thinking about the crazy jankyness you can achieve with it.
1: Have any gideon in play.
2: target him with Spark Double
3: transform the copy to a creature and target it with Mirrorweave
4: cast The Elderspell and laugh like a madman.
jankyness for everyone.
To be fair most decks always have creatires, planeswalkers, especially in abundance, are more scarce of a card to be on the field, and in garruk's wake cost the same as Plague Wind and it also destroys all planeswalkers you don't control. This card is good and I love it but I don't think it is absurd. I could be proven wrong though depending on how standard shakes out.
UBG Tasigur, the lab enabler UR Planeswalker Control
UBRW Breya's personal box of combos BRW Vampire beats, by Dre
1 Karn, where all lands are command towers UBR Inalla's Venser lock
UBRGW Atog Atog contraption tribal WUB Xur's second chance
UGW Derivi, bird tribal R Brother's Yamazaki
BRG Prosh, the scourge of multiplayer GW Capt. Sisay's Deck Dumping Service
UB All Your Spells do Belong to Me UG Tapioca Pearl
BG Meren's grinder
What? Not "Mister Bolas. I don't feel so good."
I think it's Ral. If it's Teyo, then we have our Kole. Which kinda makes sense, given their powers.
On phasing:
BB is a restrictive mana cost. Most walkers are going to be coming down later in the game which is when you want to be casting this, it may not be a huge issue, B has to be your decks primary or secondary color to hit this on time. We have no fixing currently, so running B as a tertiary color and this is going to be too risky.
While a lot of these walkers are great for modern, plenty of them are luke warm in standard. Further moreita kinda nice to have some sort of potential catch up mechanic to 4 cmc teferi into 5 cmc teferi for non UWx control in standard.
This is unplayable in modern. I think jund and tron run the most walkers are 6ish and you can throw much larger roadblocks in front of them first (blood moon).
It's a safety valve for standard. At rare I can see this being kinda bomby in limited but there is always a huge delta in limited playability for rares. Heck lands in particular tend to wheel in draft at my LGS from the try hards.
Yeah if your opponent curves 2-3 walkers together and you drop a good to great walker with a relevant ultimate and this in one turn, sure the blowouts. I am highly skeptical I'll ever see this.
Graveyards, artifacts, enchantments the stack, library, creatures all have had similarly costed removal for specialized cases.
Two plausible reasons:
1. From a meta perspective WAR is a mechanically dense set chock full of tribal synergies, superfriends support, the set's own keywords, and callbacks to a plethora of old ability words. There just isn't space for another set's mechanic, and randomly sticking in keyworded set mechanics from other sets isn't something they normally do, anyways. Tezzeret, at least, gets a pass for affinity by being a promo accessible only to players who buy singles or boxes of cards (that is, experienced players), but The Elder Spell is going to be in booster packs opended by new players, who already have a lot to learn in this set.
2. From a flavor perspective, look who's doing this: the eternals. Bolas isn't running around ripping sparks out himself; he's using his minions for this. It's THE Elder Spell because that's the function that Bolas imbued into his eternals, but you can't actually call a spell legendary after it has been mass-produced.
The fact that it is perfectly acceptable single target PW removal that ALSO lets you come back from a walker deficit in what could be a PW heavy environment without taking additional slots in your deck is amazing, but yeah, being PW only makes it hard to maindeck more than a couple copies even if PWs are everywhere. The biggest upside to this card is that it is a pretty beastly combo piece in a deck that is already PW heavy. For the right list, you can win the game with UBBBBBR which is pretty in line with what your should be getting if you are spending 7+ mana at sorcery speed, but the ability to break it into parts is what makes it interesting to explore. Might turn out not to be viable, aggro and control are both pretty good right now and this is a combo deck that would have to play attackable permanents to the board early and often, but if this card defines the format, that seems more likely to be the reason. This card does make playing the uncommon planeswalkers with no plus abilities in multiples a bit more attractive as well as you can sac redundant copies to build up another or something like Vraska, Relic Seeker.
Deliver unto evil is super sweet! I love the ability almost as much as I love the creepy art, it is just sick and its floor seems really high since you can target multiple copies of the same card. I am super excited for this card! can't wait to just chain them together with a Bolas out, like it might be magical christmas land but the value is just amazing!
UBG Tasigur, the lab enabler UR Planeswalker Control
UBRW Breya's personal box of combos BRW Vampire beats, by Dre
1 Karn, where all lands are command towers UBR Inalla's Venser lock
UBRGW Atog Atog contraption tribal WUB Xur's second chance
UGW Derivi, bird tribal R Brother's Yamazaki
BRG Prosh, the scourge of multiplayer GW Capt. Sisay's Deck Dumping Service
UB All Your Spells do Belong to Me UG Tapioca Pearl
BG Meren's grinder
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Exactly right. That's what I meant. Sorry I wasn't clear.
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