The year is 2003
Wizards print a brand new set called "Mirrodin", with a novel focus on artifacts as a card type to flesh them out in ways they haven't been done before.
Then they include this card;
The MemnaspellBB
Sorcery (R)
Any number of target artifacts lose all abilities until end of turn, then destroy them. Choose an artifact you control. Put either two +1/+1 counters or two charge counters on it for each artifact destroyed this way.
basically what this feels like
How warping can a single card be? It would be one thing if it was just a hoser, but instead its an "I win on the spot" in any planeswalker vs planeswalker matchup, encouraging you to use walkers and beat your opponents walkers, thereby creating a degenerate arms race around one card.
They did make that card, it was called arcbound ravager
The Elderspell may as well read "Completely hose target Atraxa deck."
If they are playing superfriends. Not everyone does.
Personally I'm glad as Atraxa superfriends is my least favorite deck to play against. Now it will be tolerable. Will even by funny of everyone else has black in their deck.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Well, The Elderspell is about what I expected, although I though it's cmc would be 2B. No way would they have made it instant speed. As long as you don't commit too many planeswalkers to the board at once, you should be able to rebuild in a superfriends style deck. Deliver Unto Evil is great and i'm liking that the art style is different from the "modern" look Wizards has been going for for quite some time.
The year is 2003
Wizards print a brand new set called "Mirrodin", with a novel focus on artifacts as a card type to flesh them out in ways they haven't been done before.
Then they include this card;
The MemnaspellBB
Sorcery (R)
Any number of target artifacts lose all abilities until end of turn, then destroy them. Choose an artifact you control. Put either two +1/+1 counters or two charge counters on it for each artifact destroyed this way.
basically what this feels like
How warping can a single card be? It would be one thing if it was just a hoser, but instead its an "I win on the spot" in any planeswalker vs planeswalker matchup, encouraging you to use walkers and beat your opponents walkers, thereby creating a degenerate arms race around one card.
They did make that card, it was called arcbound ravager
Can you name another permanent type that is less likely to have multiples on the field? In what common scenario of constructed is there going to be multiple walkers for one player and that player not have already won? More often than not this is a Dreadbore that trades the (important) ability to hit creatures for adding two counters to a walker that you just played. I call it sideboard tech for when you know your opponent is running a few 'walkers.
I don't like building a deck around sacrificing your own walkers, either. If you can stick 2+ walkers for multiple turns to set it up, why not just use them to win?
I do agree that in limited you are more likely to get 2/3-for-1's, but it's a rare. That is okay. Not like you are accelerating an ult yourself in limited without another rare.
The spell is good enough at it is. The only thing this things needs is a mythic rare rarity.
Are we actually making the argument here that a card should be rarer for the sake of being unaffordable and unattainable and thus making it less likely to appear in lower budget players' decks?
It's long bugged me how many magic players have the "If I can't beat you with my brain I'll beat you with my wallet" attitude, but most aren't so brazen to admit to it by wishing good cards were rarer.
If the card is that useless in constructed at it is mentioned here, than you don't need to pay much even if the card is mythic. But the higher rarity would at least make it less possible to get this in limited. If the card is useful in constructed, than even in rare the card can get expensive. I don't know why you think that my comment was to make the card unaffordable. I just dislike the fact that this card is direct hate to the card type this set is all about. Is like having a "Destroy any number of target legendaries. Choose a legendary creature you control. Put a +1/+1 counter on it for each legendary destroyed this way." at 4cc in Dominaria.
Why are people going mental over the elder spell? Am I the only one who thinks that this will see approximately 0% constructed play?
It's extremely narrow and in almost best case scenario it reads "destroy target planeswalker". How often do you see yourself facing more than 1 walker? And even if all stars align and hell freezes and you get to cast it against 2-3 walkers AND it resolves, that means that a) all walkers have been activated at least 1 time b) 1-2 walkers have been activated several times over several turns, gaining their controller an accumulated advantage. Is resolving elder spell really gonna turn the tides at that point?
Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God which is offical confirmed real see I knew all of those were real why were you guys so doubtful of those all because of what’s usually in standard is why
And again I feel that this Nicol Bolas is a practice run on making a urza planeswalker because I can picture him with that static ability
Why are people going mental over the elder spell? Am I the only one who thinks that this will see approximately 0% constructed play?
It's extremely narrow and in almost best case scenario it reads "destroy target planeswalker". How often do you see yourself facing more than 1 walker? And even if all stars align and hell freezes and you get to cast it against 2-3 walkers AND it resolves, that means that a) all walkers have been activated at least 1 time b) 1-2 walkers have been activated several times over several turns, gaining their controller an accumulated advantage. Is resolving elder spell really gonna turn the tides at that point?
I agree mostly. I was also scratching my head over here at this reaction since I can't imagine ever putting this card in a constructed deck. I mean maybe sideboard tech in standard if there's a heavily planeswalker deck doing well but that's about it.
With one exception - Pretty sure every superfriends EDH deck will play it. Because they can sacrifice their own walkers to ult another one. In a superfriends deck this is a very playable combo piece that has the added benefit of being a pw plague wind at times.
How often do you see yourself facing more than 1 walker? And even if all stars align and hell freezes and you get to cast it against 2-3 walkers AND it resolves, that means that a) all walkers have been activated at least 1 time b) 1-2 walkers have been activated several times over several turns, gaining their controller an accumulated advantage. Is resolving elder spell really gonna turn the tides at that point?
Actually, yes. Turning the tide is just what this is for. This is not a Win-More card that you play when you're already ahead and it dosnt matter. This card takes those 2-3 walkers that have been activated a couple times, gaining their controller an accumulated advantage, and then it wipes out that advantage and gives it to you instead. The more they were ahead of you in the dimension this card operates in, the more they lose and the more you gain.
I hate Walkers, and I have since they were invented. For a long time, each one basically had the text box "Deal with me right now or lose", and that was one of the things that really narrowed the strategy of the game. The current walkers in this set are actually much better. They're more narrow of focus and don't generally threaten to win the game by themselves. Walkers ought to have been this way since 2007. So I'm really gleeful to see some walker hate.
But this costs way too little and is way too selective. I get to selectively blow up all of the stuff of this type, no matter whose it is, and avoid whichever of mine I'd like to in order to move some counters around to my preferred cannon. And it costs so little mana that I wont mind firing off a couple early, and backing up the really important one with counters late. Anything that makes people think about whether or not they are overextended is good IMO, but this is too cheap and too selective.
Why are people going mental over the elder spell? Am I the only one who thinks that this will see approximately 0% constructed play?
It's extremely narrow and in almost best case scenario it reads "destroy target planeswalker". How often do you see yourself facing more than 1 walker? And even if all stars align and hell freezes and you get to cast it against 2-3 walkers AND it resolves, that means that a) all walkers have been activated at least 1 time b) 1-2 walkers have been activated several times over several turns, gaining their controller an accumulated advantage. Is resolving elder spell really gonna turn the tides at that point?
I imagine it would be a normal occurrence in a standard where walkers slot into decks as easily as replacing blink of an eye with Teferi, Time Raveler. When there's just one walker for you and one for an opponent, its already probably going to wind up a '2-for-1' with the effects of that loyalty factored in. But with a lot of decks running 6-8+ walker slots, it won't take the stars aligning.
You do know Ajani's in the comic set after WAR, right? So Ajani is confirmed to survive for sure.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
You do know Ajani's in the comic set after WAR, right? So Ajani is confirmed to survive for sure.
I didn't know that. I just don't follow the news all that closely.
What I said was just a theory though. That said, we all know that for this set, WotC has been very deliberate with card arts, names, and abilities. It just seems like a huge mistake to me for them to make a card with this ability and this art without the two having anything to do with each other.
ShinyMan: If the art does suggest that two of them die, then it has to be Gideon and Jace. The other two are known to survive. I think we know that Jace also survives.
Having said that, I'm not sure why this would suggest any of them die. It's not like it destroys PWs. If anything, it would represent them switching sides?
@Everyone saying OH MY GOD IT'S BUSTED, please stop and think how OH MY GOD IT'S BUSTED it is outside of WAR-Standard.
Which is to say, not very busted at all. It's average use-case in most games of Magic (even EDH/Casual) is exceedingly low. When it's relevant (i.e. your opponent is randomply plyaing Superfriends.dec) you'll feel like a goddamn super genius but 9 out of 10 times, it probably won't do very much at all. Requires QUITE A LOT of set up and matchup-dependent.
When you stop and think about that, it suddenly seems a LOT less OH MY GOD IT'S BUSTED. In fact...it's perfectly fair at BB (which further hamstrings the number of decks it can easily see play in..)
ShinyMan: If the art does suggest that two of them die, then it has to be Gideon and Jace. The other two are known to survive. I think we know that Jace also survives.
Having said that, I'm not sure why this would suggest any of them die. It's not like it destroys PWs. If anything, it would represent them switching sides?
Switching sides...from the graveyard though. Turns out they all died, and came back under contract with Bolas. Next 5 years: EEEEvil Gatewatch!
ShinyMan: If the art does suggest that two of them die, then it has to be Gideon and Jace. The other two are known to survive. I think we know that Jace also survives.
Having said that, I'm not sure why this would suggest any of them die. It's not like it destroys PWs. If anything, it would represent them switching sides?
The ability is choosing two out of four cards to return to hand and the other two remain in the graveyard; there are four planeswalkers opposing Bolas in the art.
@Everyone saying OH MY GOD IT'S BUSTED, please stop and think how OH MY GOD IT'S BUSTED it is outside of WAR-Standard.
Which is to say, not very busted at all. It's average use-case in most games of Magic (even EDH/Casual) is exceedingly low. When it's relevant (i.e. your opponent is randomply plyaing Superfriends.dec) you'll feel like a goddamn super genius but 9 out of 10 times, it probably won't do very much at all. Requires QUITE A LOT of set up and matchup-dependent.
When you stop and think about that, it suddenly seems a LOT less OH MY GOD IT'S BUSTED. In fact...it's perfectly fair at BB (which further hamstrings the number of decks it can easily see play in..)
All in all, a splendid design.
Well part of the OH MY GOD IT'S BUSTED is you can use this in your deck with planeswalkers, that if your opponent has any is a bonus. Which in the same turn basically reads as "Ult your game winning planeswalker". Also it only takes, on average, 1-2 other planeswalkers to ult the recipient planeswalker.
But on the flip-side, you could sac the other two planeswalkers on the battlefield and actually ult Tibalt the same turn which for BBRR on that turn is basically Insurrection.
Did it involve donate and mindslaver?
If they are playing superfriends. Not everyone does.
Personally I'm glad as Atraxa superfriends is my least favorite deck to play against. Now it will be tolerable. Will even by funny of everyone else has black in their deck.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Can you name another permanent type that is less likely to have multiples on the field? In what common scenario of constructed is there going to be multiple walkers for one player and that player not have already won? More often than not this is a Dreadbore that trades the (important) ability to hit creatures for adding two counters to a walker that you just played. I call it sideboard tech for when you know your opponent is running a few 'walkers.
I don't like building a deck around sacrificing your own walkers, either. If you can stick 2+ walkers for multiple turns to set it up, why not just use them to win?
I do agree that in limited you are more likely to get 2/3-for-1's, but it's a rare. That is okay. Not like you are accelerating an ult yourself in limited without another rare.
If the card is that useless in constructed at it is mentioned here, than you don't need to pay much even if the card is mythic. But the higher rarity would at least make it less possible to get this in limited. If the card is useful in constructed, than even in rare the card can get expensive. I don't know why you think that my comment was to make the card unaffordable. I just dislike the fact that this card is direct hate to the card type this set is all about. Is like having a "Destroy any number of target legendaries. Choose a legendary creature you control. Put a +1/+1 counter on it for each legendary destroyed this way." at 4cc in Dominaria.
Bolas: I'm the boss
TURN DOWN FOR WHAT.
is "The Elder Spell" named due reason Bolas uses some kind of "ELDER SCROLL" ???
It's extremely narrow and in almost best case scenario it reads "destroy target planeswalker". How often do you see yourself facing more than 1 walker? And even if all stars align and hell freezes and you get to cast it against 2-3 walkers AND it resolves, that means that a) all walkers have been activated at least 1 time b) 1-2 walkers have been activated several times over several turns, gaining their controller an accumulated advantage. Is resolving elder spell really gonna turn the tides at that point?
Deliver Unto Evil wow that’s a type of art you would see on a older card nicely done and the abilty is quite nice with a bolas focused deck
The Elderspell I KNEW IT!!! PERSUDO Aether snap REPRINT! AND YOU CAN PULL THE Fractured identity and phage the untouchable/leveler TRICK IF THERE IS ATLEAST 2 WALKERS AND IF YOU HAVE...
Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God which is offical confirmed real see I knew all of those were real why were you guys so doubtful of those all because of what’s usually in standard is why
And again I feel that this Nicol Bolas is a practice run on making a urza planeswalker because I can picture him with that static ability
I agree mostly. I was also scratching my head over here at this reaction since I can't imagine ever putting this card in a constructed deck. I mean maybe sideboard tech in standard if there's a heavily planeswalker deck doing well but that's about it.
With one exception - Pretty sure every superfriends EDH deck will play it. Because they can sacrifice their own walkers to ult another one. In a superfriends deck this is a very playable combo piece that has the added benefit of being a pw plague wind at times.
Maybe as a sideboard card against a super friends deck?
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Actually, yes. Turning the tide is just what this is for. This is not a Win-More card that you play when you're already ahead and it dosnt matter. This card takes those 2-3 walkers that have been activated a couple times, gaining their controller an accumulated advantage, and then it wipes out that advantage and gives it to you instead. The more they were ahead of you in the dimension this card operates in, the more they lose and the more you gain.
I hate Walkers, and I have since they were invented. For a long time, each one basically had the text box "Deal with me right now or lose", and that was one of the things that really narrowed the strategy of the game. The current walkers in this set are actually much better. They're more narrow of focus and don't generally threaten to win the game by themselves. Walkers ought to have been this way since 2007. So I'm really gleeful to see some walker hate.
But this costs way too little and is way too selective. I get to selectively blow up all of the stuff of this type, no matter whose it is, and avoid whichever of mine I'd like to in order to move some counters around to my preferred cannon. And it costs so little mana that I wont mind firing off a couple early, and backing up the really important one with counters late. Anything that makes people think about whether or not they are overextended is good IMO, but this is too cheap and too selective.
I imagine it would be a normal occurrence in a standard where walkers slot into decks as easily as replacing blink of an eye with Teferi, Time Raveler. When there's just one walker for you and one for an opponent, its already probably going to wind up a '2-for-1' with the effects of that loyalty factored in. But with a lot of decks running 6-8+ walker slots, it won't take the stars aligning.
My guess would be Ajani and Gideon.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I didn't know that. I just don't follow the news all that closely.
What I said was just a theory though. That said, we all know that for this set, WotC has been very deliberate with card arts, names, and abilities. It just seems like a huge mistake to me for them to make a card with this ability and this art without the two having anything to do with each other.
Having said that, I'm not sure why this would suggest any of them die. It's not like it destroys PWs. If anything, it would represent them switching sides?
Which is to say, not very busted at all. It's average use-case in most games of Magic (even EDH/Casual) is exceedingly low. When it's relevant (i.e. your opponent is randomply plyaing Superfriends.dec) you'll feel like a goddamn super genius but 9 out of 10 times, it probably won't do very much at all. Requires QUITE A LOT of set up and matchup-dependent.
When you stop and think about that, it suddenly seems a LOT less OH MY GOD IT'S BUSTED. In fact...it's perfectly fair at BB (which further hamstrings the number of decks it can easily see play in..)
All in all, a splendid design.
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Switching sides...from the graveyard though. Turns out they all died, and came back under contract with Bolas. Next 5 years: EEEEvil Gatewatch!
Or maybe I'm just reading too much into this.
This actually gives Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded a purpose as he is the cheapest planeswalker you can use as fodder for a faster ulting planeswalker, yes even cheaper than Nissa, Steward of Elements.
But on the flip-side, you could sac the other two planeswalkers on the battlefield and actually ult Tibalt the same turn which for BBRR on that turn is basically Insurrection.
Considering your user name, I might just take this one with a grain of salt.
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Between Teferi, Time Raveler and Dovin, Hand of Control it's hard for reactive decks like control to stop you. Less good against aggro but with a turbo Teferi, Hero of Dominaria emblem, you could lock out fairly quickly.
With Teferi, Hero of Dominaria untapping two lands, and Teferi, Time Raveler being able to let you cast The Elderspell during opponents turn, you can look to setup an emblem as early as turn 6.
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