I feel like people are being overly harsh. Having a card that dodges board wipes and provides card advantage (not just card quality like copter, but actual CA) has potential, especially at only 2 cmc. Imagine playing a fairly creature-light control deck with lots of wipes - this could be a good way to swing in and get cards after a wipe, while putting on some pressure. And there are a lot of wipes in standard right now...
Not saying it's amazing, but I wouldn't say it's terrible.
I feel like people are being overly harsh. Having a card that dodges board wipes and provides card advantage (not just card quality like copter, but actual CA) has potential, especially at only 2 cmc. Imagine playing a fairly creature-light control deck with lots of wipes - this could be a good way to swing in and get cards after a wipe, while putting on some pressure. And there are a lot of wipes in standard right now...
Not saying it's amazing, but I wouldn't say it's terrible.
I completely agree with you.
That stupid song is now stuck in my head.... Arghhh!
this kind of feels misplaced on ravnica, not sure if it is cause we had no vehicles on ravnica before or if it is the submerge theme... it just feels awkward here
the card itself is also not that exciting, 2 mana for 2/3 that needs to be crewed in order to attack just to get easely blocked doesnt feel good. i think we have a dozen better uncommons in this set and i am not talking about the UC walkers
I mean, there's only been one creature I'm aware of with a saboteur draw ability with 2 cmc, which is vedalken heretic, which is a multicolor 1/1 and dies to sorcery-speed creature removal.
Copter is certainly stronger late-game, but early-game drawing is a lot better than looting. If you can get the CA flowing early, it's going to be difficult for your opponent to recover.
Yeah, I feel like we’re missing something here... this is definitely a Dimir sub, it’s all about the surveillance and espionage, and the vessel’s design matches the dimir signet.
Why is this a rare when there are creatures at common that do similar things? And every other card in this set seems so pushed... I’m wondering if we’re going to get some cycle of creatures at common that say “If this creature crews, do something amazing and game-winning.” Otherwise this is the most nerfed rare we’ve seen in a long time. Seems useless in every format. *Maybe* sideboard material in limited if your opponent has a wrath.
I assume it belongs to either the Izzet or the Simic guild, more importantly why is it so bad? Yes its 2 mana for a 2/3 that gives card draw except you need to tape a 2 power creature to activate it! Smuggler's Copter was much better and in my eyes this is worse than Jhessian Thief as it doesn't have prowess. Actually this Submarine doesn't have any evasion which defeats the whole purpose of a sub. If it had islandwalk, skulk or even prowess I would have been fine with it. Instead it is a god awful rare. Also crew 2 for a 2/3 vehicle is over costed should have been crew 1.
Yea ya know how smugglers copter was banned? Turned out it was too good. They went for playable, but busted in half.
meh card is not very good. Its also very boring for a hype set like this. Very disapointing, i guess they ran out of ideas for this thing. To make it more interesting, they could have made it egt the key words of the creatures that crewwed it or soemthing like that.
I feel like people are being overly harsh. Having a card that dodges board wipes and provides card advantage (not just card quality like copter, but actual CA) has potential, especially at only 2 cmc. Imagine playing a fairly creature-light control deck with lots of wipes - this could be a good way to swing in and get cards after a wipe, while putting on some pressure. And there are a lot of wipes in standard right now...
Not saying it's amazing, but I wouldn't say it's terrible.
Honestly the reality of today's control is mostly creatureless, unless you are running Thief, at which point you wouldn't trade it's two power and effect for this submarine. This card is somehow a really terrible vehicle and would have been bad at colorless but at double blue, it's just actively trying to be bad
They probably didn't give it hexproof or evasion because they don't want it being too effective against planeswalkers in a set where you're supposed to play a bunch of planeswalkers. 'Sides, it's a submarine. What do you expect it to do in a war on the city's surface? Launch sea-to-air missiles?
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
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You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
When cards get nerfed to the point of unplayable. They always go overboard (Navy pun oh yeah) doing that.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
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Zur the Enchanter
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Ishai+Reyhan
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Not saying it's amazing, but I wouldn't say it's terrible.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
That stupid song is now stuck in my head.... Arghhh!
the card itself is also not that exciting, 2 mana for 2/3 that needs to be crewed in order to attack just to get easely blocked doesnt feel good. i think we have a dozen better uncommons in this set and i am not talking about the UC walkers
Copter is certainly stronger late-game, but early-game drawing is a lot better than looting. If you can get the CA flowing early, it's going to be difficult for your opponent to recover.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
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Why is this a rare when there are creatures at common that do similar things? And every other card in this set seems so pushed... I’m wondering if we’re going to get some cycle of creatures at common that say “If this creature crews, do something amazing and game-winning.” Otherwise this is the most nerfed rare we’ve seen in a long time. Seems useless in every format. *Maybe* sideboard material in limited if your opponent has a wrath.
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StaffYea ya know how smugglers copter was banned? Turned out it was too good. They went for playable, but busted in half.
Honestly the reality of today's control is mostly creatureless, unless you are running Thief, at which point you wouldn't trade it's two power and effect for this submarine. This card is somehow a really terrible vehicle and would have been bad at colorless but at double blue, it's just actively trying to be bad
Otherwise solid card I guess?
Cool card. Terrible rarity. No evasion
It's ok if you get through but for its effect and stats it's sub (grin) par.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
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Stupid!? How dare you say that about the Beatles!
*Pulls out gauntlet. Throws it on the ground.*
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Am IAt least I'm not the only one that thinks that this card was absolutely begging to break the storm scale and have Islandwalk?Ability with that crew requirement is... meh. It might be easier to just use Karn to turn it into a 2/2 and attack that way.
I really like that art though. Might buy it just for that.
Ooohh better idea than Karn.