FFS. Did we really have to bring them to Ravnica just to start all the 'he said, she said' stuff again? It was bad enough having to deal with this crap last time around.
I really hate seeing Sorin - that cool as ice, 6000 year old, long-term thinking planeswalker - being reduced to a bickery schoolground kid.
His whole family is wiped out, Emrakul brought to his plane, Avacyn dead. Why shouldn’t he be angry?
Weeellllll Avacyns unmaking was his doing. She just got crazy. He sold her for an army of vampires. The rest was Nahiri. While Emrakul invaded Innistrad after the unmaking of Avacyn. So maybe she was holding her back somehow.
But yeah if he has feelings than they should be triggered by that. Maybe Ugin can settle down the fight between them for the time they are in Ravnica.
Weeeeellll Emrakul did make most of the angels go mad, except Sigarda and her flight.
Personally, I think they're both jackasses who deserve a major slice of humble pie. Oldwalkers think they can just play games of chess with the lives of "lower beings"; well how about somebody banishes them back to their home planes by stealing their sparks, leaving them trapped on their own worlds? And while they're at it, maybe finding a way to turn Sorin human so he can no longer use vampirism as an excuse to act like an aloof jerkass?
*Sigh* And to think, I used to like both these characters...
They’re absolutely both in the wrong. Sorin couldn’t even offer up a “my bad” to his actions. And he then decides to leave someone trapped for ages. He’s abysmal at communication.
Tiana: Jhoira? You're looking off into space again. Are you thinking about Teferi?
Jhoira: Yeah... I'm so jealous of him and his spark. Getting to go around the multiverse, helping people...
(meanwhile, on Ravnica)
Jace: Okay, so we're all gathered here, ready to defend..
Chandra: Yeah, but look at us, Jace. We're all like little kids compared to Bolas.
Jace: I thought of that. So I got two of the oldest planeswalkers to help out. Introduuuuuuuuuuciiiiiiiiiiiing... Drumroll?
(Half-hearted drumroll)
Jace: SORIN AND NAHIRI (gestures dramatically at two curtains, which raise simultaneously)
Nahiri: SORIN!?
Sorin: NAHIRI?!
(The entire area suddenly explodes with stone fragments and blood, covering all the planeswalkers. The two oldwalkers are nowhere to be found, but their battle echoes in the distance.)
Huatli: What just happened?
Jace: I... wasn't... expecting...
(Words cut off as Nahiri destroys six city blocks)
Teferi: (looking at Jaya) So, does it bother you that WE'RE the two most mature oldwalkers?
(Jaya nods, exasperated)
Gideon: So is there anyone else?
Jace: Um.... Ugin?
Chandra: The dragon that pretty much swore he'd unmake us the moment he saw us again?
Jace: Look, all things considered, its a miracle we've survived the last ten minutes, okay?
I enjoyed this post thoroughly. Thank you for the chuckle.
They’re absolutely both in the wrong. Sorin couldn’t even offer up a “my bad” to his actions. And he then decides to leave someone trapped for ages. He’s abysmal at communication.
Of course he is. Still, he imprisoned Nahiri only after she wouldn't relent and kept attacking him in her misguided attempt to earn his respect.
Did the Helvault have a switch that allowed one to release things?
I largely agree, but rather am tired of Nahiri. I love Sorin and his story and want to see more of him being a stoic badass and am upset when Nahiri (who I think is in the wrong) shows up and ruins stuff.
I agree entirely. What I meant was I hate the way they re-wrote Sorin's character in Shadows, giving him a petulance that was completely absent from his character before. He went from calm insouciance at the triviality of everyone's everyday worries to 'WAHH WAHH NAHIRI!' foot-stamping childishness. It was an abyssmal character assassination. I hold the SOI/EMN writers more to blame than Nahiri. And now they're continuing it here.
Well, he did lose his child. The loss of a child is the greatest loss, I can understand why he's changed.
They’re absolutely both in the wrong. Sorin couldn’t even offer up a “my bad” to his actions. And he then decides to leave someone trapped for ages. He’s abysmal at communication.
Of course he is. Still, he imprisoned Nahiri only after she wouldn't relent and kept attacking him in her misguided attempt to earn his respect.
Did the Helvault have a switch that allowed one to release things?
I don't know if Sorin could bind/lock her but if I know that she is the key of my planes defense (and he should know because he created her) than maybe unmaking her is the worse thing I can do. Avacyn even became normal again in the fight against Sorin. She saw the true at the last moment and rebel against her creator. He sold her for an army of vampire because that was the condition Olivia made. He not even acted before. He didn't cared for the humans in Innistrad. He in fact never did. Avacyn was created for balancing the forces on Innistrad so that the humans (vampire food resource) didn't extinct. He cares for humans like we cares for our food resources like pigs.
I don't even think that Nahiri knows a thing about Innistrads defense mechanism. She lures Emrakul to Innistrad and that was an evil act for sure but she isn't the only one being evil in the story. Sorin didn't do a thing against Emrakul to defend Innistrad. He did not even wanted/tried to protect his world like Nahiri had for many years before.
The crazy Angels weren't a danger for humanity or Innistrad. Innistrad was able to fight and win the fights without any help from a Planeswalker. Even Brisela was defeated by Thalia, Geist and Sigarda. Just Avacyn or Emrakul could have been a problem.
But this is not the point of this thread. We have different opinions and I am sure we will not agree.
I am not sure if I still like the card. The caster is still the last to rebuild his board but with a round delayed. Voltron maybe but other than that? Artifact heavy decks or to get some loyalty counter because the additional time?
FFS. Did we really have to bring them to Ravnica just to start all the 'he said, she said' stuff again? It was bad enough having to deal with this crap last time around.
I really hate seeing Sorin - that cool as ice, 6000 year old, long-term thinking planeswalker - being reduced to a bickery schoolground kid.
I largely agree, but rather am tired of Nahiri. I love Sorin and his story and want to see more of him being a stoic badass and am upset when Nahiri (who I think is in the wrong) shows up and ruins stuff.
Agreed, she was 100% better when she didn't have any personality at all and was just "The Lithomancer".
Oldwalkers think they can just play games of chess with the lives of "lower beings";
You just explained why oldwalkers are the best part about Magic.
That they're a bunch of disassociative ***holes who stop caring about people that aren't millenia-old godlike beings? Sorry, but I fail to see the appeal. At least Teferi and Jaya have retained their humanity, though growing old post-mending might have helped make them appreciative of other people.
I liked Nahiri better when she was just the Equipment-themed Lithomancer. After SOI, my moral disgust at her character keeps me from enjoying her properly. And Sorin used to be the Alucard of MTG...yeah, I really didn't enjoy SOI block. Since I started playing the game, SOI and Amonkhet have been the low points for me.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Oldwalkers think they can just play games of chess with the lives of "lower beings";
You just explained why oldwalkers are the best part about Magic.
That they're a bunch of disassociative ***holes who stop caring about people that aren't millenia-old godlike beings? Sorry, but I fail to see the appeal. At least Teferi and Jaya have retained their humanity, though growing old post-mending might have helped make them appreciative of other people.
I liked Nahiri better when she was just the Equipment-themed Lithomancer. After SOI, my moral disgust at her character keeps me from enjoying her properly. And Sorin used to be the Alucard of MTG...yeah, I really didn't enjoy SOI block. Since I started playing the game, SOI and Amonkhet have been the low points for me.
Two young boys, brothers in fact, had a teacher who was an archaeologist. One day the pair went into a cave and came across a portal which had a special stone which split into two. Each brother coveted the others half. They accidentally killed their mentor because of their greed and fighting. One brother ran into the desert only to be enslaved by nomads, the other went to a city and not only became an apprentice but also won the hand of a lady in a contest but he didn't love her. As they grew up, they would eventually lead their respective sides, still desiring the other half of the other brother had. They would backstab and spy on the other, eventually spiraling into a full out war. In the end one brother ascended to godhood through the war by obtaining both halves and also creating a massive explosion with an artifact. So powerful was this artifact that it created a dark age and an ice age for most of the inhabitants on the world. The other brother didn't die, but became partially cybernetic and corrupted by the magics of an ancient evil that acted as a third party during the whole war. Even after that setback, the corrupted brother tried to attack his now godlike brother, said godlike brother destroyed a giant swath of a forest and supposedly his brother a second time. Far later into the story of the godlike brother, he descends into the realm of the ancient evil, and finds his corrupted brother he thought dead. This brother cried out repeatedly for the help of his godlike brother, each day being tortured by the denizens of this hellish realm. Yet the godlike brother, not of sound mind in this part of the story, couldn't tell if what he was seeing was actually his brother, a hallucination, or a false creation by the ancient evil. So he instead went to visit the ancient evil while leaving what may have been his brother there.
All this fighting and destruction and so much more that I didn't touch on the godlike brother's story because the two brothers (Urza and Mishra) were greedy and envious of the other when they were just children at first.
Urza wasn't of sound mind at any point past Tocasia's death. I think it is telling of the level of writing of that Saga that the main hero was a very broken broken man that in any other storyline would have probably been the antagonist or the mad prophet and the absolute weight that he felt about opening the Gate to Phyrexia..because ultimately he would rather have just hid in his lab and tinkered with his machines rather than be involved in any of it.
Yes... and Ugin, but Jace IS the Living Guildpact... so he does have some "Authority" to stop these guys from destroying each other.
He can’t do anything about people not connected to the Guildpact. The only reason Jace could affect Azor with it is because Azor is still binded by it’s statues.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Interesting... Could that be Bolas undoing? That his invasion will link him to the Guildpact and places him under Jace?
No. Planeswalker sparks and the Guildpact aren’t a package deal. There a separate thing. Plus merging mutlipe sparks to make an oldwalker spark would overpower the Guildpact. Oldwalkers would laugh and casually ignore a Guildpact command even if they where a guild member.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Tiana: Jhoira? You're looking off into space again. Are you thinking about Teferi?
Jhoira: Yeah... I'm so jealous of him and his spark. Getting to go around the multiverse, helping people...
(meanwhile, on Ravnica)
Jace: Okay, so we're all gathered here, ready to defend..
Chandra: Yeah, but look at us, Jace. We're all like little kids compared to Bolas.
Jace: I thought of that. So I got two of the oldest planeswalkers to help out. Introduuuuuuuuuuciiiiiiiiiiiing... Drumroll?
(Half-hearted drumroll)
Jace: SORIN AND NAHIRI (gestures dramatically at two curtains, which raise simultaneously)
Nahiri: SORIN!?
Sorin: NAHIRI?!
(The entire area suddenly explodes with stone fragments and blood, covering all the planeswalkers. The two oldwalkers are nowhere to be found, but their battle echoes in the distance.)
Huatli: What just happened?
Jace: I... wasn't... expecting...
(Words cut off as Nahiri destroys six city blocks)
Teferi: (looking at Jaya) So, does it bother you that WE'RE the two most mature oldwalkers?
(Jaya nods, exasperated)
Gideon: So is there anyone else?
Jace: Um.... Ugin?
Chandra: The dragon that pretty much swore he'd unmake us the moment he saw us again?
Jace: Look, all things considered, its a miracle we've survived the last ten minutes, okay?
Quite epic. I think that Jace's last phrase would be even funnier with Hmmkay? instead of okay, but yeah... that's pretty much a great TDLR.
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MTG Junky... First packs being a starter of each 4th Edition and Ice Age. Good Grief, I've been playing since 1995? Where does the time go!
Quote from Xcric »
this is mtgs, where occam's razor is so blunt it can't cut jello any more.
Hold up, so most of you here are saying there is bad, lazy storytelling and shallow character writing in a fantasy trading card game targeted for a demographic of mostly awkward anti social nerd 12-25 year olds!? NO WAY
They’re absolutely both in the wrong. Sorin couldn’t even offer up a “my bad” to his actions. And he then decides to leave someone trapped for ages. He’s abysmal at communication.
I enjoyed this post thoroughly. Thank you for the chuckle.
"TETSUO!"
And what was he supposed to do when she went completely mad and threatened to wipe out the humans she was made to protect?
Wasn't that Nahiri's plan? Avacyn was the key of Innistrad's protective magic and she wanted to force Sorin to remove both said magic and the angel.
Of course he is. Still, he imprisoned Nahiri only after she wouldn't relent and kept attacking him in her misguided attempt to earn his respect.
Did the Helvault have a switch that allowed one to release things?
Well, he did lose his child. The loss of a child is the greatest loss, I can understand why he's changed.
I don't know if Sorin could bind/lock her but if I know that she is the key of my planes defense (and he should know because he created her) than maybe unmaking her is the worse thing I can do. Avacyn even became normal again in the fight against Sorin. She saw the true at the last moment and rebel against her creator. He sold her for an army of vampire because that was the condition Olivia made. He not even acted before. He didn't cared for the humans in Innistrad. He in fact never did. Avacyn was created for balancing the forces on Innistrad so that the humans (vampire food resource) didn't extinct. He cares for humans like we cares for our food resources like pigs.
I don't even think that Nahiri knows a thing about Innistrads defense mechanism. She lures Emrakul to Innistrad and that was an evil act for sure but she isn't the only one being evil in the story. Sorin didn't do a thing against Emrakul to defend Innistrad. He did not even wanted/tried to protect his world like Nahiri had for many years before.
The crazy Angels weren't a danger for humanity or Innistrad. Innistrad was able to fight and win the fights without any help from a Planeswalker. Even Brisela was defeated by Thalia, Geist and Sigarda. Just Avacyn or Emrakul could have been a problem.
But this is not the point of this thread. We have different opinions and I am sure we will not agree.
I am not sure if I still like the card. The caster is still the last to rebuild his board but with a round delayed. Voltron maybe but other than that? Artifact heavy decks or to get some loyalty counter because the additional time?
If the card is any indication, the off switch is "Smash it with a hammer"
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
That they're a bunch of disassociative ***holes who stop caring about people that aren't millenia-old godlike beings? Sorry, but I fail to see the appeal. At least Teferi and Jaya have retained their humanity, though growing old post-mending might have helped make them appreciative of other people.
I liked Nahiri better when she was just the Equipment-themed Lithomancer. After SOI, my moral disgust at her character keeps me from enjoying her properly. And Sorin used to be the Alucard of MTG...yeah, I really didn't enjoy SOI block. Since I started playing the game, SOI and Amonkhet have been the low points for me.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Because their involvement usually lead to hilarious train wrecks.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
All this fighting and destruction and so much more that I didn't touch on the godlike brother's story because the two brothers (Urza and Mishra) were greedy and envious of the other when they were just children at first.
Urza wasn't of sound mind at any point past Tocasia's death. I think it is telling of the level of writing of that Saga that the main hero was a very broken broken man that in any other storyline would have probably been the antagonist or the mad prophet and the absolute weight that he felt about opening the Gate to Phyrexia..because ultimately he would rather have just hid in his lab and tinkered with his machines rather than be involved in any of it.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
He can’t do anything about people not connected to the Guildpact. The only reason Jace could affect Azor with it is because Azor is still binded by it’s statues.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
No. Planeswalker sparks and the Guildpact aren’t a package deal. There a separate thing. Plus merging mutlipe sparks to make an oldwalker spark would overpower the Guildpact. Oldwalkers would laugh and casually ignore a Guildpact command even if they where a guild member.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Quite epic. I think that Jace's last phrase would be even funnier with Hmmkay? instead of okay, but yeah... that's pretty much a great TDLR.