I'm looking forward to a more complicated version of him that captures more of his character, but I'd say this is a pretty good card in limited. I don't usually play black, but if I open this one during the pre-release, I just might.
on the first sight, the card is a hardcore disappointment. It is absolutely off lore-wise, just like someone made a generic uncommon black walker to fill a desired gameplay role and stuck his name on it - and that is what probably happened.
On the other hand...you did not let an author develop such a great character just to make this card and kill him off. He will survive and get a proper Dimir or Grixis colored card later, to reflect his spellstealing and demonology.
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
All right, what the hell is this!? Literally everything about this card is wrong from the flavor perspective: the title (He was no shadowmage), color identity (he was UB), abilities (stealing spells and summoning demons), even the artwork is off (skin too pale, mask different from the one we saw on the cover of Children of the Nameless).
I'm just gonna pretend this doesn't exist and wait for a proper Davriel.
No one is complaining that the card is bad. They're complaining that the card doesn't fit the character.
Precisely. I all but expected Davriel to be one of the uncommon planeswalkers, and therefore not a very powerful one. But this is a lore-wise disaster, which something a Vorthos like me can't stand.
just like someone made a generic uncommon black walker to fill a desired gameplay role and stuck his name on it - and that is what probably happened.
Agreed and I think this is true. Considering the gatewatch vs Bolas arc was being drafted when they started making Magic Origins and we been told Kaya and Dovin where written for their roles in the stories and then where introduced earlier storylines to set them up, I think a number of the walkers here are the same. Off the top of my head I remember Maro saying they were really needing a black/red character and thats one reason why we got Angrath, from talks around M19 Vivien was already in the files for future characters and as many people mentioned its odd Yanggu is here but not Yangling. Makes me believes these walkers where already being made for this set and when Sanderson fleshed out the character its was a little to late to flavor him right. Also I personally found it odd at the mask and amor choices he made as well, but I think that was because they already started the art for War and told Sanderson the character needed to have a reason to hide his face. In retrospect this was most likely so Sanderson would make him look however he wanted without the arts being mismatched. I think a similar thing is going on with the Wanderer.
Thats said the discard at least is an attempt to tie into his mind magic I'm guessing and I'm not quite sure how to reflect his abilities well on an mono-black uncommon card.
On the other hand...you did not let an author develop such a great character just to make this card and kill him off. He will survive and get a proper Dimir or Grixis colored card later, to reflect his spellstealing and demonology.
This is my thought, thought I really don't see Davriel having red really.
All right, what the hell is this!? Literally everything about this card is wrong from the flavor perspective: the title (He was no shadowmage), color identity (he was UB),
Sanderson started him off as mono-black and said if Davriel would show up he could see him as mono-black or UB and I agree Davriel core color is black.
even the artwork is off (skin too pale, mask different from the one we saw on the cover of Children of the Nameless).
That all matched up actually. Their is some art of Davriel in his full armor (like the back cover? of the ebook) and it matches up with this art.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Sanderson started him off as mono-black and said if Davriel would show up he could see him as mono-black or UB and I agree Davriel core color is black.
I know and I agree his character was more B than U, but his power was very UB.
That all matched up actually. Their is some art of Davriel in his full armor (like the back cover? of the ebook) and it matches up with this art.
The artwork you've posted does not appear anywhere in Children of the Nameless. I 've downloaded it and checked. It's actually the same artwork that they used on the card, just with a different background. If you look at the mask Davriel is holding in his hand on the cover of the novel, it's quite different.
The artwork you've posted does not appear anywhere in Children of the Nameless. I 've downloaded it and checked. It's actually the same artwork that they used on the card, just with a different background. If you look at the mask Davriel is holding in his hand on the cover of the novel, it's quite different.
It was on the wizards site for the ebook and the mask just looks golden on the main cover. The full armor pic was also how many of us figured out he was gonna appear in set after seeing his window in the trailer.
EDIT: Also mono-black can use mind magics. Thats what discard and lobotomy effects are.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
It was on the wizards site for the ebook and the mask just looks golden on the main cover. The full armor pic was also how many of us figured out he was gonna appear in set after seeing his window in the trailer.
I know, I too expected to see this art on the actual card after watching the trailer. That doesn't change that fact that it feels odd. This menacing armored figure just isn't the lazy, nap-taking bon vivant with a walking stick the novel presented to us. The book's cover, which has him sitting in a comfy chair with a cup of his favorite tea, is a much better fit.
EDIT: Also mono-black can use mind magics. Thats what discard and lobotomy effects are.
Black can use certain kinds of mind magic for sure, but I don't think it can steal spells, that seems very blue to me. I tried to find an existing Magic card that captures what Davriel's magic does (both mechanically and in terms of flavor) and the only really good fit seems to be Psychic Intrusion.
With that said, I fully accept that not every planeswalker card has to be all colors of the character. This just isn't what I expected after reading the novella, that's all.
Black can use certain kinds of mind magic for sure, but I don't think it can steal spells, that seems very blue to me. I tried to find an existing Magic card that captures what Davriel's magic does (both mechanically and in terms of flavor) and the only really good fit seems to be Psychic Intrusion.
With that said, I fully accept that not every planeswalker card has to be all colors of the character. This just isn't what I expected after reading the novella, that's all.
Gonti would like a word with you.
And the process of choosing and extracting the power is basically Thoughtseize. Even the life loss is included.
But it seems that right now Davriel just decided to not show his true abilities (which is quite wise) and is playing the role of a good-for-nothing shadowmage (i wonder, whose powers he had stolen, btw) which happens to go well with his fancy shadowy coat.
I like it as a three costing slot black walker that isn't Liliana. This will work well alongside a casting of Settle the Score to refuel for more discard.
Gonti would like a word with you.
And the process of choosing and extracting the power is basically Thoughtseize. Even the life loss is included.
OK, I admit I totally forgot about Gonti. I'm still not sure the effect isn't (in MaRo's words) a "break" or at least a "bend" in black, but I do feel a bit more comfortable with him being just black now. Thanks!
Gonti would like a word with you.
And the process of choosing and extracting the power is basically Thoughtseize. Even the life loss is included.
OK, I admit I totally forgot about Gonti. I'm still not sure the effect isn't (in MaRo's words) a "break" or at least a "bend" in black, but I do feel a bit more comfortable with him being just black now. Thanks!
Fiend of the Shadows can also do it so I think it's more like a secondary in black situation.
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Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Gonti would like a word with you.
And the process of choosing and extracting the power is basically Thoughtseize. Even the life loss is included.
OK, I admit I totally forgot about Gonti. I'm still not sure the effect isn't (in MaRo's words) a "break" or at least a "bend" in black, but I do feel a bit more comfortable with him being just black now. Thanks!
Think the card is a better fit than other planeswalkers first cards related to what they become (you guys remember Old woman Nissa and her racist-supremacist kinda behavior? and how they retconned her to be a elemental-leyline mage? or liliana that had a discard focus for a long time but now she is almost all about necromancy, and there was this time she was a ramp walker or garruk that was a hunter with druidc traditions that then becomed a hunter that summon things walker (on cards))
Davriel just can't cast yet the spells he stealls lets wait and give feedback that then in his next card he might have a "gonti"sh ability
I believe he will be more powerful in a later set because he will likely be black and blue.
Due to his disregard for necromancy because he believes it is an idiots profession, he will likely utilize his intelligence to the extent of being blue along with black.
I just hope he steals spells, reflects spells, or at least summons a demon in the later sets.
Davriel just can't cast yet the spells he stealls lets wait and give feedback that then in his next card he might have a "gonti"sh ability
I agree, as an mono-colored uncommon Davriel was limited to how much flavor he could show off.
So from Maro article it seems like I was half right. They made the card for War of the Spark for a new mono-black walker, loved Brandon Sandsons character so they decided to make the undecided black character Davriel and since he has a from of mind magic he will now have discard as a part of his card design (being moved from Liliana).
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Casting the opponent's spell is rare both in black and in blue. The effect is just not very common.
I think Nightveil Specter is a clear hint stealing opponent's cards is both black and blue. 'Stealing' is primary in black when it targets the opponent's hand and cards in the library. Multiple monoblack cards do this, not a single monoblue spell does it. Blue is more about stealing permanents and spells being resolved.
I could see a UB Davriel in the future but I think his monoblack version will be far more common. Spell Thieves are black. Blue mages do not steal spells, they invent them.
Bribery, Acquire and other blue cards do steal. Stealing is totally a blue black specialty as the blue reads their mind and the black rips it out of them.
Ult idea for him
Emblem: "whenever an opponent casts a spell you may pay x where x is that cards converted mana cost. Gain control of that spell. If there are any targets you may choose new ones."
You have a point with bribery and acquire, but those cards are very old and they are not "spell stealing". They are more akin to control magic, both in flavor and function.
Maybe I'm alone in this but the way I see, "spell stealing" means you still have to cast the spell and pay its mana cost like Praetor's Grasp and Gonti.
My point is, a 'spell thief' could be identified as UB, but they dont have to. Mono B spellthief is perfectly in character and coukd serve as co trast to Jace.
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on the first sight, the card is a hardcore disappointment. It is absolutely off lore-wise, just like someone made a generic uncommon black walker to fill a desired gameplay role and stuck his name on it - and that is what probably happened.
On the other hand...you did not let an author develop such a great character just to make this card and kill him off. He will survive and get a proper Dimir or Grixis colored card later, to reflect his spellstealing and demonology.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I'm just gonna pretend this doesn't exist and wait for a proper Davriel.
Precisely. I all but expected Davriel to be one of the uncommon planeswalkers, and therefore not a very powerful one. But this is a lore-wise disaster, which something a Vorthos like me can't stand.
Agreed and I think this is true. Considering the gatewatch vs Bolas arc was being drafted when they started making Magic Origins and we been told Kaya and Dovin where written for their roles in the stories and then where introduced earlier storylines to set them up, I think a number of the walkers here are the same. Off the top of my head I remember Maro saying they were really needing a black/red character and thats one reason why we got Angrath, from talks around M19 Vivien was already in the files for future characters and as many people mentioned its odd Yanggu is here but not Yangling. Makes me believes these walkers where already being made for this set and when Sanderson fleshed out the character its was a little to late to flavor him right. Also I personally found it odd at the mask and amor choices he made as well, but I think that was because they already started the art for War and told Sanderson the character needed to have a reason to hide his face. In retrospect this was most likely so Sanderson would make him look however he wanted without the arts being mismatched. I think a similar thing is going on with the Wanderer.
Thats said the discard at least is an attempt to tie into his mind magic I'm guessing and I'm not quite sure how to reflect his abilities well on an mono-black uncommon card.
This is my thought, thought I really don't see Davriel having red really.
Sanderson started him off as mono-black and said if Davriel would show up he could see him as mono-black or UB and I agree Davriel core color is black.
That all matched up actually. Their is some art of Davriel in his full armor (like the back cover? of the ebook) and it matches up with this art.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I don't know exactly the story behind the character.. but his name sounds strangely familiar. He's probably referred as flavor text on several cards.
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I know and I agree his character was more B than U, but his power was very UB.
The artwork you've posted does not appear anywhere in Children of the Nameless. I 've downloaded it and checked. It's actually the same artwork that they used on the card, just with a different background. If you look at the mask Davriel is holding in his hand on the cover of the novel, it's quite different.
It was on the wizards site for the ebook and the mask just looks golden on the main cover. The full armor pic was also how many of us figured out he was gonna appear in set after seeing his window in the trailer.
EDIT: Also mono-black can use mind magics. Thats what discard and lobotomy effects are.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I know, I too expected to see this art on the actual card after watching the trailer. That doesn't change that fact that it feels odd. This menacing armored figure just isn't the lazy, nap-taking bon vivant with a walking stick the novel presented to us. The book's cover, which has him sitting in a comfy chair with a cup of his favorite tea, is a much better fit.
Black can use certain kinds of mind magic for sure, but I don't think it can steal spells, that seems very blue to me. I tried to find an existing Magic card that captures what Davriel's magic does (both mechanically and in terms of flavor) and the only really good fit seems to be Psychic Intrusion.
With that said, I fully accept that not every planeswalker card has to be all colors of the character. This just isn't what I expected after reading the novella, that's all.
Gonti would like a word with you.
And the process of choosing and extracting the power is basically Thoughtseize. Even the life loss is included.
But it seems that right now Davriel just decided to not show his true abilities (which is quite wise) and is playing the role of a good-for-nothing shadowmage (i wonder, whose powers he had stolen, btw) which happens to go well with his fancy shadowy coat.
OK, I admit I totally forgot about Gonti. I'm still not sure the effect isn't (in MaRo's words) a "break" or at least a "bend" in black, but I do feel a bit more comfortable with him being just black now. Thanks!
Fiend of the Shadows can also do it so I think it's more like a secondary in black situation.
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Well, to make you maybe even more comfortable: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/178527097023/do-you-think-we-could-see-more-of-blacks-ability#notes
It seems casting opponent's cards from their library is in-color for black, just not very common.
(Though I hope the next Davriel's card would be UB, it surely suits him more)
Think the card is a better fit than other planeswalkers first cards related to what they become (you guys remember Old woman Nissa and her racist-supremacist kinda behavior? and how they retconned her to be a elemental-leyline mage? or liliana that had a discard focus for a long time but now she is almost all about necromancy, and there was this time she was a ramp walker or garruk that was a hunter with druidc traditions that then becomed a hunter that summon things walker (on cards))
Davriel just can't cast yet the spells he stealls lets wait and give feedback that then in his next card he might have a "gonti"sh ability
Due to his disregard for necromancy because he believes it is an idiots profession, he will likely utilize his intelligence to the extent of being blue along with black.
I just hope he steals spells, reflects spells, or at least summons a demon in the later sets.
I agree, as an mono-colored uncommon Davriel was limited to how much flavor he could show off.
So from Maro article it seems like I was half right. They made the card for War of the Spark for a new mono-black walker, loved Brandon Sandsons character so they decided to make the undecided black character Davriel and since he has a from of mind magic he will now have discard as a part of his card design (being moved from Liliana).
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I think Nightveil Specter is a clear hint stealing opponent's cards is both black and blue. 'Stealing' is primary in black when it targets the opponent's hand and cards in the library. Multiple monoblack cards do this, not a single monoblue spell does it. Blue is more about stealing permanents and spells being resolved.
I could see a UB Davriel in the future but I think his monoblack version will be far more common. Spell Thieves are black. Blue mages do not steal spells, they invent them.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Ult idea for him
Emblem: "whenever an opponent casts a spell you may pay x where x is that cards converted mana cost. Gain control of that spell. If there are any targets you may choose new ones."
Maybe I'm alone in this but the way I see, "spell stealing" means you still have to cast the spell and pay its mana cost like Praetor's Grasp and Gonti.
My point is, a 'spell thief' could be identified as UB, but they dont have to. Mono B spellthief is perfectly in character and coukd serve as co trast to Jace.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras