I was hyped for last years. (I bought 3 of the 4 for myself) This one I am not. I may pick up one or two tops. Its a letdown.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Last November Rekindling Phoenix was a $33 card. Now it’s a $20 card.
Last November History of Benalia was a $25 card. Now it’s an $11 card. And that deck has two of them.
If not for these two immense value shifts, which they could not predict (they don’t have perfect foresight of the meta to know if a card will fall out of favor or find a new home)... this generation of decks would actually have had a higher component value than last year’s decks did when they were announced.
There was no nerfing decision here. They aimed to put in 4 $25+ mythics. But because of the five month lead time those cards wound up not being worth nearly what they were worth when they finalized deck lists.
You'd think they'd put in as much effort in these Challenger decks as they do for Commander Pre-Cons. If anything Challenger Decks gives Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro a chance to add more reprint equity in Standard without having to rely as much on Core Sets especially when Modern Horizons is made specifically for Modern / Commander. I'm guessing they were probably worried of a scenario where one particular Pre-Con gets bought out for one particular card with a limited print run as we've already seen with Teferi's Protection and True-Name Nemesis.
I do miss the days when Standard Pre-Cons felt more like a supplement for Core Sets where as now they don't feel that way anymore. We're talking before the days of Fat Packs back when white bordered cards were still a thing until they ultimately got rid of them in 10th Edition. At least you still had some reprint equity to justify purchasing the product though it wasn't nearly as excessive as it was in Commander Pre-Cons. I think Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro is being more cautious with the amount of cards they reprint after Promo Reselling led to the oversaturation of Masters sets.
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Arent these decks just fair decks to play with for a decent price ? especially for every who doesnt own millions of cards ?
I played some techniques in mtga or on paper and im very happy with those challenger decks. they have some really good starting point to improve or just to play them.
Im propably not a big collector and more focused on playing and have fun. With those decks im going to have a lot of fun i think
thanks wotc
These are fine. I would argue they are more interesting than the previous ones, aside from (arguably) second sun control. These lists make me want to play standard.
No objections to HoB being in here either. That card belongs in my knight edh but I didn't want to pay a standard price for it. Hopefully it drops into the $5 range so I can finally get a copy.
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Latest proof this forum is a trashfire:
Your authoritarianism will be the reason the company suffers another 60M in losses.
I'm guessing they were probably worried of a scenario where one particular Pre-Con gets bought out for one particular card
.
I mean that is exactly what’s going to happen. And it’s what happened last year too. Even if they didn’t predict that History and Rekindling would have dropped as fast as they have ... they know Arclight is the prize. It has the double whammy of being standard legal for another over a year and having (at least for the time being) modern relevance.
At least last year’s decks had a shift - the hazoret deck was the one to chase when it was standard legal but the counters deck proved to be the better deck for long term modern value. It looks like the Izzet deck will be the prize in the short, medium, and long term.
These can be built on Arena, and played to your heart's content in the limited time they'll still be playable. It's just not worth to buy and spend more money on upgrading them to full power, IMO.
This is pretty much it. I think Wizards is missing the mark on this product. It should be released mid-Standard or early Standard, to give people an alternative route to get the singles and decks they need. For the white weenie deck, you'd need to get the Loxodons and maybe the Azorious lands if you want to splash those.
These are not terrible value by any means, but it's just a little late in the game for some of them.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
These can be built on Arena, and played to your heart's content in the limited time they'll still be playable. It's just not worth to buy and spend more money on upgrading them to full power, IMO.
This is pretty much it. I think Wizards is missing the mark on this product. It should be released mid-Standard or early Standard, to give people an alternative route to get the singles and decks they need. For the white weenie deck, you'd need to get the Loxodons and maybe the Azorious lands if you want to splash those.
These are not terrible value by any means, but it's just a little late in the game for some of them.
But it is very difficult to predict what the meta will become after 4 sets rotate out and a new set rotates in.
It takes them five months to go from designing the decks to the decks being printed. Which means if you want this product released in, say, December, they need to finalize the product in July, which is before 4 sets rotate out of Standard and at the same time that a new Core Set is being released.
What might be better is to make a product like this that is Arena-only. They could design the product and release it on Arena with out much hassle or delay (as opposed to a print product).
SCG preordering the UR deck for $40 USD and the mono white deck for $25. I get they have families to feed but seeing vendor price variance on these products is highly irritating to me. Those numbers are based SOLELY on the fact that the UR deck had higher secondary market values at the time of the spoiler.
SCG preordering the UR deck for $40 USD and the mono white deck for $25. I get they have families to feed but seeing vendor price variance on these products is highly irritating to me. Those numbers are based SOLELY on the fact that the UR deck had higher secondary market values at the time of the spoiler.
MSRP does not exist any more, so stores can charge whatever they think they can for all of the products.
The Red Deck will sell better than the White Deck. Stores are forced to buy boxes with an equal number of decks in them. The best way to efficiently sell everything is to charge less for the less popular decks and charge more for the more popular decks.
SCG preordering the UR deck for $40 USD and the mono white deck for $25. I get they have families to feed but seeing vendor price variance on these products is highly irritating to me. Those numbers are based SOLELY on the fact that the UR deck had higher secondary market values at the time of the spoiler.
MSRP does not exist any more, so stores can charge whatever they think they can for all of the products.
The Red Deck will sell better than the White Deck. Stores are forced to buy boxes with an equal number of decks in them. The best way to efficiently sell everything is to charge less for the less popular decks and charge more for the more popular decks.
MSRP still exist until War of the spark release. This Product release before.
These can be built on Arena, and played to your heart's content in the limited time they'll still be playable. It's just not worth to buy and spend more money on upgrading them to full power, IMO.
This is pretty much it. I think Wizards is missing the mark on this product. It should be released mid-Standard or early Standard, to give people an alternative route to get the singles and decks they need. For the white weenie deck, you'd need to get the Loxodons and maybe the Azorious lands if you want to splash those.
These are not terrible value by any means, but it's just a little late in the game for some of them.
But it is very difficult to predict what the meta will become after 4 sets rotate out and a new set rotates in.
It takes them five months to go from designing the decks to the decks being printed. Which means if you want this product released in, say, December, they need to finalize the product in July, which is before 4 sets rotate out of Standard and at the same time that a new Core Set is being released.
What might be better is to make a product like this that is Arena-only. They could design the product and release it on Arena with out much hassle or delay (as opposed to a print product).
It would be nice but collecting cards on Arena is deliberately difficult with the small boosters and no dusting in order to offset grinding and stimulate consumption
They would earn money on the decks for sure but lose a lot on people who buy packs to build standard decks. And there are a lot of those...
And I'm reasonably sure that in paper, even if the product is bad, the costs to market are so low (art and design done and paid) that they still make good money off of it, while Standard is unaffected on the whole (in terms of its ability to make money) by their printing.
SCG preordering the UR deck for $40 USD and the mono white deck for $25. I get they have families to feed but seeing vendor price variance on these products is highly irritating to me. Those numbers are based SOLELY on the fact that the UR deck had higher secondary market values at the time of the spoiler.
MSRP does not exist any more, so stores can charge whatever they think they can for all of the products.
The Red Deck will sell better than the White Deck. Stores are forced to buy boxes with an equal number of decks in them. The best way to efficiently sell everything is to charge less for the less popular decks and charge more for the more popular decks.
Ever since that announcement I've been noticing people seem to have a great misunderstanding of what MSRP was and did. It was never a limit on price. Stores could always charge whatever they wanted for a product - MSRP was just there to set an expectation for the consumer, not a guarantee, and certainly not something that was in any way enforceable.
If SCG presells that deck for $25, there will be a run on that deck since that $25 will be less than the cost of buying those cards singly, and as a result the value of those cards would plummet almost immediately. By setting their price at $40, that process is slowed somewhat. The price drop for those cards will still happen, this will just make it gradual over time instead of right now. The best way to combat this is simply not to buy that deck at that price from SCG (or whoever else).
This happens with a lot of products WotC puts out that contain reprints. I imagine SCG's preorder price for the Selesnya Guild Kit was higher than the others as well. MSRP doesn't stop that, that's not what it's there for.
Incidentally, this also stops people from buying a bunch of those decks all at once and flipping them on eBay right away, which is what would also happen if the price was set at $25 instead of $40. It may still happen at $40 but probably not as badly. The board game Scythc was another example of this type of thing - we set our price higher to avoid people coming in and buying them all only to resell them online.
MSRP going away isn't going to have much effect on retailers that know what they're doing. Their prices are likely still going to keep the same profit margins they always did (50% typically). It's not going to magically allow stores to "gouge" because they always could anyhow.
SCG preordering the UR deck for $40 USD and the mono white deck for $25. I get they have families to feed but seeing vendor price variance on these products is highly irritating to me. Those numbers are based SOLELY on the fact that the UR deck had higher secondary market values at the time of the spoiler.
MSRP does not exist any more, so stores can charge whatever they think they can for all of the products.
The Red Deck will sell better than the White Deck. Stores are forced to buy boxes with an equal number of decks in them. The best way to efficiently sell everything is to charge less for the less popular decks and charge more for the more popular decks.
Ever since that announcement I've been noticing people seem to have a great misunderstanding of what MSRP was and did. It was never a limit on price. Stores could always charge whatever they wanted for a product - MSRP was just there to set an expectation for the consumer, not a guarantee, and certainly not something that was in any way enforceable.
If SCG presells that deck for $25, there will be a run on that deck since that $25 will be less than the cost of buying those cards singly, and as a result the value of those cards would plummet almost immediately. By setting their price at $40, that process is slowed somewhat. The price drop for those cards will still happen, this will just make it gradual over time instead of right now. The best way to combat this is simply not to buy that deck at that price from SCG (or whoever else).
This happens with a lot of products WotC puts out that contain reprints. I imagine SCG's preorder price for the Selesnya Guild Kit was higher than the others as well. MSRP doesn't stop that, that's not what it's there for.
Incidentally, this also stops people from buying a bunch of those decks all at once and flipping them on eBay right away, which is what would also happen if the price was set at $25 instead of $40. It may still happen at $40 but probably not as badly. The board game Scythc was another example of this type of thing - we set our price higher to avoid people coming in and buying them all only to resell them online.
MSRP going away isn't going to have much effect on retailers that know what they're doing. Their prices are likely still going to keep the same profit margins they always did (50% typically). It's not going to magically allow stores to "gouge" because they always could anyhow.
MSRP is a guiding light that empowers consumers with knowledge of what the manufacturer suggests the price should be. Stores can charge more or less but we are armed with the ideal price and thus can assess if something is under or over priced. Without MSRP, we do not have that guiding light, which makes the process of deducing if something is fairly priced or not more difficult. It means we the consumer must do research before we purchase a product to know if we are getting ripped off or not.
The lack of MSRP also hurts stores who are not as heavily versed in the arcane ways of Magic. Instead being able to simply put an item up and sell if for the listed price, they too need to do research and determine what a fair price is for something. Charge too much and no one will buy from you, charge too little and you are missing out on profits.
And the lack of MSRP does not affect us much right now but going forward, WotC will likely obfuscate what the price of a product is to the consumer by offering new and different products. I remember when Heroclix first came out with their really big miniatures (action figure-sized miniatures). They did not have an MSRP and they were a completely new product. No one had any real context on how much the boxes should cost. Some stores charged a lot, some stores charged a little. It was all over the place. The market eventually found an equilibrium but not before some people wound up paying vastly more than others (I was one of those who was over charged. My FLGS owner actually gave me store credit when he found out how much more he charged me than his competitors).
I do not worry about the loss of MSRP that much but to say it has little bearing on the market going forward is a little silly.
I am sad for everyone that spends money to buy these.
Total waste of money.
You can't buy an arclight and multiple sulfur falls for the MSRP of these last year. Stop being silly.
Last year challenger decks had a lot of vallue. And were designed when heart of Kiran was above $15 each (for exemple )(when the list came, it was down to 10-8 each, and now are under 2 dolar)
Phoenix is seeing modern and legacy play soo it will probably hold the $20+ mark but you can’t say that about the rest. Last year all the decks costed above $80 without counting commons and uncommon with little monetary price, but as soon it released some $3 rares instantly went to under $1.
Lets hope people that want to join a fnm can buy the mono white and red and GB decks for $25-$28 and have fun with them.
I was hyped for last years. (I bought 3 of the 4 for myself) This one I am not. I may pick up one or two tops. Its a letdown.
If you feel that a product is a let-down, why buy "one or two" anyway? That's not how you make your feelings known to a company. They can't read your minds, and likely won't see or care about your criticisms on some web forum. The only thing they understand is the bottom line, sales. If people buy a (theoretically) crap product, all they see is the money coming in regardless. If you feel a product is not worth the money, then don't buy it. That is the only sure-fire way to voice your criticism.
I was hyped for last years. (I bought 3 of the 4 for myself) This one I am not. I may pick up one or two tops. Its a letdown.
If you feel that a product is a let-down, why buy "one or two" anyway? That's not how you make your feelings known to a company. They can't read your minds, and likely won't see or care about your criticisms on some web forum. The only thing they understand is the bottom line, sales. If people buy a (theoretically) crap product, all they see is the money coming in regardless. If you feel a product is not worth the money, then don't buy it. That is the only sure-fire way to voice your criticism.
That is why I said one or two instead of three. I will be voicing my opinion with my wallet if I buy less. Did you not read what I wrote? Reading comprehension much?
Its why I didn't spend a dime on Battlebond. I felt it sucked and voiced that with my wallet. Ask before you attack please.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I was hyped for last years. (I bought 3 of the 4 for myself) This one I am not. I may pick up one or two tops. Its a letdown.
If you feel that a product is a let-down, why buy "one or two" anyway? That's not how you make your feelings known to a company. They can't read your minds, and likely won't see or care about your criticisms on some web forum. The only thing they understand is the bottom line, sales. If people buy a (theoretically) crap product, all they see is the money coming in regardless. If you feel a product is not worth the money, then don't buy it. That is the only sure-fire way to voice your criticism.
That is why I said one or two instead of three. I will be voicing my opinion with my wallet if I buy less. Did you not read what I wrote? Reading comprehension much?
Its why I didn't spend a dime on Battlebond. I felt it sucked and voiced that with my wallet. Ask before you attack please.
But willing to buy 50% of the product line is showing with your wallet that it is NOT a total let down.
You are using strong word choices that are inconsistent with your intent for spending.
I was hyped for last years. (I bought 3 of the 4 for myself) This one I am not. I may pick up one or two tops. Its a letdown.
If you feel that a product is a let-down, why buy "one or two" anyway? That's not how you make your feelings known to a company. They can't read your minds, and likely won't see or care about your criticisms on some web forum. The only thing they understand is the bottom line, sales. If people buy a (theoretically) crap product, all they see is the money coming in regardless. If you feel a product is not worth the money, then don't buy it. That is the only sure-fire way to voice your criticism.
That is why I said one or two instead of three. I will be voicing my opinion with my wallet if I buy less. Did you not read what I wrote? Reading comprehension much?
Its why I didn't spend a dime on Battlebond. I felt it sucked and voiced that with my wallet. Ask before you attack please.
But willing to buy 50% of the product line is showing with your wallet that it is NOT a total let down.
You are using strong word choices that are inconsistent with your intent for spending.
Maybe you should not be so confrontational?
This is a silly thing to argue about, but buying any definitely still gives the impression you are satisfied. lol albeit, not quite as satisfied as last time.
But willing to buy 50% of the product line is showing with your wallet that it is NOT a total let down.
You are using strong word choices that are inconsistent with your intent for spending.
Maybe you should not be so confrontational?
He is 100% right about his stand.
If he WANTS to buy stuff he is totally free to do so.
Buying LESS product is exactly the message they need to receive, if you are not satisfied with a product.
If its a TOTAL failure you wont buy any of it, but thats among the biggest catastrophes possible if fans with wallets wont buy products.
----
And then there is your local store.
Sometimes you want to support them too, so you would buy a semi great product still, as you get a good deal from them and punishing the store for WotC bad products is not really helping the store in any way.
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This product does not have a good value, especially not in the EU, some of the cards have a much higher price tag in the US , so location alone is a massive differentiation on how you can rate the product.
And "current" card prices is a terrible price tag to go buy, as the cards in these decks crash hard with the increased demand, as people buy these boxes simply to crack the big money cards and sell all the others, and throw away the commons and the crap (so someone that wants these can just get them for free).
So you CAN buy these boxes and even make a profit if you find people that buy these cards from you , and there are guaranteed to be some people that do so (as some people dont realize these products exist and dont know whats in them, so they overpay for a card that just lost tremendous amounts of value).
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Anyway, all of that is true for any product, especially pre-constructed boxes.
If they really wanted to they could have made a GATE.dec which is cheap and effective , much more effective than any of these decks.
For my taste they could put at least some PROMO card into the decks to satisfy the people that want alternate art cards, especially for the good cards (imagine alternate art Arclight Phoenix, would be a lot better and make the product more appealing).
Its small stuff like that, they dont need to slam 10 times the value in these products, but they can increase the attractiveness without doing crazy stunts.
(Still not sure if these contain codes for Arena , maybe? not sure, if not they absolutely should, that would be literally free value)
It was so good on the introduction now they are chickening out of doing decks powerful like those again
The only highlights are these
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Standard WOTC start strong then nerf it the next year while keeping or increasing the price point.
They locked in the decks last November.
Last November Rekindling Phoenix was a $33 card. Now it’s a $20 card.
Last November History of Benalia was a $25 card. Now it’s an $11 card. And that deck has two of them.
If not for these two immense value shifts, which they could not predict (they don’t have perfect foresight of the meta to know if a card will fall out of favor or find a new home)... this generation of decks would actually have had a higher component value than last year’s decks did when they were announced.
There was no nerfing decision here. They aimed to put in 4 $25+ mythics. But because of the five month lead time those cards wound up not being worth nearly what they were worth when they finalized deck lists.
I do miss the days when Standard Pre-Cons felt more like a supplement for Core Sets where as now they don't feel that way anymore. We're talking before the days of Fat Packs back when white bordered cards were still a thing until they ultimately got rid of them in 10th Edition. At least you still had some reprint equity to justify purchasing the product though it wasn't nearly as excessive as it was in Commander Pre-Cons. I think Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro is being more cautious with the amount of cards they reprint after Promo Reselling led to the oversaturation of Masters sets.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I played some techniques in mtga or on paper and im very happy with those challenger decks. they have some really good starting point to improve or just to play them.
Im propably not a big collector and more focused on playing and have fun. With those decks im going to have a lot of fun i think
thanks wotc
No objections to HoB being in here either. That card belongs in my knight edh but I didn't want to pay a standard price for it. Hopefully it drops into the $5 range so I can finally get a copy.
I mean that is exactly what’s going to happen. And it’s what happened last year too. Even if they didn’t predict that History and Rekindling would have dropped as fast as they have ... they know Arclight is the prize. It has the double whammy of being standard legal for another over a year and having (at least for the time being) modern relevance.
At least last year’s decks had a shift - the hazoret deck was the one to chase when it was standard legal but the counters deck proved to be the better deck for long term modern value. It looks like the Izzet deck will be the prize in the short, medium, and long term.
This is pretty much it. I think Wizards is missing the mark on this product. It should be released mid-Standard or early Standard, to give people an alternative route to get the singles and decks they need. For the white weenie deck, you'd need to get the Loxodons and maybe the Azorious lands if you want to splash those.
These are not terrible value by any means, but it's just a little late in the game for some of them.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
But it is very difficult to predict what the meta will become after 4 sets rotate out and a new set rotates in.
It takes them five months to go from designing the decks to the decks being printed. Which means if you want this product released in, say, December, they need to finalize the product in July, which is before 4 sets rotate out of Standard and at the same time that a new Core Set is being released.
What might be better is to make a product like this that is Arena-only. They could design the product and release it on Arena with out much hassle or delay (as opposed to a print product).
MSRP does not exist any more, so stores can charge whatever they think they can for all of the products.
The Red Deck will sell better than the White Deck. Stores are forced to buy boxes with an equal number of decks in them. The best way to efficiently sell everything is to charge less for the less popular decks and charge more for the more popular decks.
MSRP still exist until War of the spark release. This Product release before.
It would be nice but collecting cards on Arena is deliberately difficult with the small boosters and no dusting in order to offset grinding and stimulate consumption
They would earn money on the decks for sure but lose a lot on people who buy packs to build standard decks. And there are a lot of those...
And I'm reasonably sure that in paper, even if the product is bad, the costs to market are so low (art and design done and paid) that they still make good money off of it, while Standard is unaffected on the whole (in terms of its ability to make money) by their printing.
Ever since that announcement I've been noticing people seem to have a great misunderstanding of what MSRP was and did. It was never a limit on price. Stores could always charge whatever they wanted for a product - MSRP was just there to set an expectation for the consumer, not a guarantee, and certainly not something that was in any way enforceable.
If SCG presells that deck for $25, there will be a run on that deck since that $25 will be less than the cost of buying those cards singly, and as a result the value of those cards would plummet almost immediately. By setting their price at $40, that process is slowed somewhat. The price drop for those cards will still happen, this will just make it gradual over time instead of right now. The best way to combat this is simply not to buy that deck at that price from SCG (or whoever else).
This happens with a lot of products WotC puts out that contain reprints. I imagine SCG's preorder price for the Selesnya Guild Kit was higher than the others as well. MSRP doesn't stop that, that's not what it's there for.
Incidentally, this also stops people from buying a bunch of those decks all at once and flipping them on eBay right away, which is what would also happen if the price was set at $25 instead of $40. It may still happen at $40 but probably not as badly. The board game Scythc was another example of this type of thing - we set our price higher to avoid people coming in and buying them all only to resell them online.
MSRP going away isn't going to have much effect on retailers that know what they're doing. Their prices are likely still going to keep the same profit margins they always did (50% typically). It's not going to magically allow stores to "gouge" because they always could anyhow.
MSRP is a guiding light that empowers consumers with knowledge of what the manufacturer suggests the price should be. Stores can charge more or less but we are armed with the ideal price and thus can assess if something is under or over priced. Without MSRP, we do not have that guiding light, which makes the process of deducing if something is fairly priced or not more difficult. It means we the consumer must do research before we purchase a product to know if we are getting ripped off or not.
The lack of MSRP also hurts stores who are not as heavily versed in the arcane ways of Magic. Instead being able to simply put an item up and sell if for the listed price, they too need to do research and determine what a fair price is for something. Charge too much and no one will buy from you, charge too little and you are missing out on profits.
And the lack of MSRP does not affect us much right now but going forward, WotC will likely obfuscate what the price of a product is to the consumer by offering new and different products. I remember when Heroclix first came out with their really big miniatures (action figure-sized miniatures). They did not have an MSRP and they were a completely new product. No one had any real context on how much the boxes should cost. Some stores charged a lot, some stores charged a little. It was all over the place. The market eventually found an equilibrium but not before some people wound up paying vastly more than others (I was one of those who was over charged. My FLGS owner actually gave me store credit when he found out how much more he charged me than his competitors).
I do not worry about the loss of MSRP that much but to say it has little bearing on the market going forward is a little silly.
You can't buy an arclight and multiple sulfur falls for the MSRP of these last year. Stop being silly.
It’s not as good as last year but there’s still above msrp in these.
Last year challenger decks had a lot of vallue. And were designed when heart of Kiran was above $15 each (for exemple )(when the list came, it was down to 10-8 each, and now are under 2 dolar)
It is always good to read old threads. https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/789696-challenger-decks-lists
Phoenix is seeing modern and legacy play soo it will probably hold the $20+ mark but you can’t say that about the rest. Last year all the decks costed above $80 without counting commons and uncommon with little monetary price, but as soon it released some $3 rares instantly went to under $1.
Lets hope people that want to join a fnm can buy the mono white and red and GB decks for $25-$28 and have fun with them.
If you feel that a product is a let-down, why buy "one or two" anyway? That's not how you make your feelings known to a company. They can't read your minds, and likely won't see or care about your criticisms on some web forum. The only thing they understand is the bottom line, sales. If people buy a (theoretically) crap product, all they see is the money coming in regardless. If you feel a product is not worth the money, then don't buy it. That is the only sure-fire way to voice your criticism.
That is why I said one or two instead of three. I will be voicing my opinion with my wallet if I buy less. Did you not read what I wrote? Reading comprehension much?
Its why I didn't spend a dime on Battlebond. I felt it sucked and voiced that with my wallet. Ask before you attack please.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
But willing to buy 50% of the product line is showing with your wallet that it is NOT a total let down.
You are using strong word choices that are inconsistent with your intent for spending.
Maybe you should not be so confrontational?
This is a silly thing to argue about, but buying any definitely still gives the impression you are satisfied. lol albeit, not quite as satisfied as last time.
He is 100% right about his stand.
If he WANTS to buy stuff he is totally free to do so.
Buying LESS product is exactly the message they need to receive, if you are not satisfied with a product.
If its a TOTAL failure you wont buy any of it, but thats among the biggest catastrophes possible if fans with wallets wont buy products.
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And then there is your local store.
Sometimes you want to support them too, so you would buy a semi great product still, as you get a good deal from them and punishing the store for WotC bad products is not really helping the store in any way.
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This product does not have a good value, especially not in the EU, some of the cards have a much higher price tag in the US , so location alone is a massive differentiation on how you can rate the product.
And "current" card prices is a terrible price tag to go buy, as the cards in these decks crash hard with the increased demand, as people buy these boxes simply to crack the big money cards and sell all the others, and throw away the commons and the crap (so someone that wants these can just get them for free).
So you CAN buy these boxes and even make a profit if you find people that buy these cards from you , and there are guaranteed to be some people that do so (as some people dont realize these products exist and dont know whats in them, so they overpay for a card that just lost tremendous amounts of value).
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Anyway, all of that is true for any product, especially pre-constructed boxes.
If they really wanted to they could have made a GATE.dec which is cheap and effective , much more effective than any of these decks.
For my taste they could put at least some PROMO card into the decks to satisfy the people that want alternate art cards, especially for the good cards (imagine alternate art Arclight Phoenix, would be a lot better and make the product more appealing).
Its small stuff like that, they dont need to slam 10 times the value in these products, but they can increase the attractiveness without doing crazy stunts.
(Still not sure if these contain codes for Arena , maybe? not sure, if not they absolutely should, that would be literally free value)
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