I have buddies arguing with me Elspeth is 4. The armor isn't the same and Elspeth has black hair. All of the sudden she is strawberry blonde? Idk. Also I have no idea who raiden could be.
4 is clearly not Elspeth IMO. Different hair color, as you pointed out, also Elspeth has always used martial weapons, never a shepherd's or wizard's staff. Also, this walker looks to be UW color identity to me, not Mono W.
Some people are arguing #12 (raiden) is Elspeth, but I don't see that either. I think that's more likely than 4 though. But again, we see #12 has a completely different type of weapon and Elspeth has always been pictured fully armored before. #4's clothing is much close to Elspeth.
Okay... uncommon planeswalker. But honestly how will they do the balance on those or will planeswalker gain a new type of uniqueness rule?
All planeswalkers are legendary and are subject to the "legend rule". Wizards has done fine with balancing other legendary permanents recently so I imagine they'll figure it out here. It's probably safe to assume that any planeswalkers shifted into lower rarities will have their power level bumped down accordingly.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lapsed DCI Rules Advisor - Retired from playing but still hanging around
I have buddies arguing with me Elspeth is 4. The armor isn't the same and Elspeth has black hair. All of the sudden she is strawberry blonde? Idk. Also I have no idea who raiden could be.
4 is ripoff Jaina Proudmoore new planeswalker. no similarities, just wishfull thinking of your friends. Also the masterpiece elspeth is prety much how she has ever looked.
Looks like each color, two-color combination, and colorless have at least two walkers each. The rest are Bolas and maybe some tricolor walkers? Maybe a five-color one? Here's a hypothetical list, based on existing cards, the stained glass art, and a lot of speculating:
I'm interested in Ashiok, Tibalt, and Tamiyo. I'd also really like to see a five color planeswalker, and some three color ones in combinations that don't have any.
My favorite thing in the art: that squirrel who is charging with Ajani. It looks ready for Bolas.
Hopefully Tibalt is a two-drop again, and is worth playing, but not overpowered.
Planeswalkers tend to be midrangy and grindy but they don't have to be like that. They're going to need some more aggressive planeswalkers, and that's not undoable.
Planeswalkers tend to be midrangy and grindy but they don't have to be like that. They're going to need some more aggressive planeswalkers, and that's not undoable.
Clearly speculation, but based purely off something mentioned in a recent article, im guessing #4 is Jace's mother. The cloak she's wearing seems similar to his own. Could #12 be a descendant of Umezawa? Or perhaps an ascended Ayesha?
They are on the whole going to be reprints for sure.
nope! maro just confirmed on blogatog that they are all new cards
Unsurprising, since that's highly consistent with how they've handled planeswalkers. There has never been a reprint of a planeswalker in an expansion set. All planeswalker reprints have either occurred in a reprint-heavy booster like Masters and core sets, in a preconstructed deck, or in the form of a promo, such as SDCC or mythic edition.
Unsurprising, since that's highly consistent with how they've handled planeswalkers. There has never been a reprint of a planeswalker in an expansion set. All planeswalker reprints have either occurred in a reprint-heavy booster like Masters and core sets, in a preconstructed deck, or in the form of a promo, such as SDCC or mythic edition.
Not to mention that reprinting existing planeswalker cards in these numbers would probably obliterate both Limited AND Standard. I expect most of these planeswalkers to look really, REALLY bad. Perhaps deceptively so, but unattractive nonetheless.
Power-wise, I mean.
The stained glass versions of the art looks pretty cool, and I imagine the card versions will look fantastic.
Unknown Woman #1 appears to use either ice or light magic. It's difficult to tell due to the stained glass filter.
Unknown Woman #2 is mysterious and cool; what with her giant face-obscuring hat and giant cloth/feather blade and all.
Tezzeret's absence is peculiar. Garruk's too, but for different reasons.
I wonder why they included boy and his dog but not Mu Yanling. Is it because they realized they've "accidentally" pigeon-holed all the female, asian-coded planeswalkers as being bookish, librarian types?
Dack's absence, while a shame, is probably for the best.
And they're all new!? That means we can get BR Ob Nixilis and Tibalt proper! Most of the PWs will probably be multicolor, in fact. We might even get a good number of tricolor PWs, to limit how many PWs can be played in a particular deck in Standard.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
You would get every walker as a legendary creature trying to regain their spark after Bolas stole/suppressed it with the Immortal sun.
It would stop games from being grindy, limit mana issues, and keep you from having to print 30 new planeswalker kill cards.
Not only that, but that would make all 36 flipwalkers playable as commanders, which would excite a lot
of players.
I don't get how he's reaching this conclusion from MaRo's post, when the post clearly states that the PW in every pack itself was the crazy mechanic.
"bidoofvselite-four asked: So War of the Spark is confirmed to have 36 planeswalkers, with a planeswalker in every pack. Is that the crazy aspect about the set that you're super excited for us you see?
Yes! : )"
So, there's no indication here that they are all flip walkers or that there's an additional crazy aspect. Now, they could still all be flip walkers, we don't know, but this isn't very compelling evidence.
Most of the PWs will probably be multicolor, in fact. We might even get a good number of tricolor PWs, to limit how many PWs can be played in a particular deck in Standard.
I don't think "most" of these guys will be multicolor but Bolas is guaranteed to be tricolor, Teyo could easily be GWU, Davriel could be BGU...
While I was hoping for flip walkers, I could just as easily point to a response where Mark confirms that 36 walkers with one in each pack IS the "crazy" element.
I hope limited won't become too slow...
Yay for superfriends EDH, i guess?
This is also my concern. Unless a lot of removal can kill planeswalkers, a lot of time will be lost trying to kill planeswalkers instead of attacking face.
Pre-releases are going to be reallly long.
Red removal would be easiest to do it with. "CARDNAME deals N damage to any target." or "CARDNAME deals N damage to target creature or planeswalker."
Green's fine (noncreature permanent). Blue has counters, and white has O-rings.
Besides that, you can just attack until they lose all their loyalty. It creates somewhat painful minigames, but still...
Presumably there will also be a wipe. Every good event comic has some panel that everyone remembers. Thanos snaps his fingers. The Flash gets paradox'd out of existence. (They did bring him back, 23 years later. Obligatory "Goddammit, Barry." for Flashpoint existing.) Bolas steals everybody's spark.
Also I hope Tibalt's pw card isn't Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded and they actually do him justice this time.
Tibalt could very well be the "Dan Hibiki" of Magic. (I'd continue the comic book metaphor, but then I remembered DC took a different arc with Doctor Light.)
Planeswalkers tend to be midrangy and grindy but they don't have to be like that. They're going to need some more aggressive planeswalkers, and that's not undoable.
I tend to see planeswalkers as something for midrange or control, possibly infinite combos. But you do have to remember control when talking about planeswalkers: Superfriends was a control deck, as was Caw-Blade, a.k.a. the first deck to end in a planeswalker being banned.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Also I hope Tibalt's pw card isn't Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded and they actually do him justice this time.
Tibalt could very well be the "Dan Hibiki" of Magic. (I'd continue the comic book metaphor, but then I remembered DC took a different arc with Doctor Light.)
All planeswalkers are legendary and are subject to the "legend rule". Wizards has done fine with balancing other legendary permanents recently so I imagine they'll figure it out here. It's probably safe to assume that any planeswalkers shifted into lower rarities will have their power level bumped down accordingly.
I honestly hope you are right, they often make balancing mistakes on planeswalkers unfortunately.
While I was hoping for flip walkers, I could just as easily point to a response where Mark confirms that 36 walkers with one in each pack IS the "crazy" element.
While wishing is free, I'm going to need some compelling evidence before I buy into this theory.
36 walkers is pretty crazy. Planeswalkers are complicated enough already, and they represent something that is hypothetically rare (even if Vraska, Domri, and Ral are all from Ravnica; Chandra and Saheeli are both from Kaladesh; Kiora and Nissa are both from Zendikar; etc.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I think cards like Liliana, untouched by deathSarkhan, Fireblood and Kaya, Orzhov Usuper are good examples of planeswalkers that could be at a Rare power level. I think if they leave emblems to Mythic rarity planeswalkers we won't have a huge issue I think we're going to see a lot of Niche PW's that don't work great outside of a specific archetype at higher rarities but are powerful and Pw's with more generic abilities at lower.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
4 is clearly not Elspeth IMO. Different hair color, as you pointed out, also Elspeth has always used martial weapons, never a shepherd's or wizard's staff. Also, this walker looks to be UW color identity to me, not Mono W.
Some people are arguing #12 (raiden) is Elspeth, but I don't see that either. I think that's more likely than 4 though. But again, we see #12 has a completely different type of weapon and Elspeth has always been pictured fully armored before. #4's clothing is much close to Elspeth.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
All planeswalkers are legendary and are subject to the "legend rule". Wizards has done fine with balancing other legendary permanents recently so I imagine they'll figure it out here. It's probably safe to assume that any planeswalkers shifted into lower rarities will have their power level bumped down accordingly.
4 is ripoff Jaina Proudmoore new planeswalker. no similarities, just wishfull thinking of your friends. Also the masterpiece elspeth is prety much how she has ever looked.
Don't forget that Sarkhan's most recent multicolored card was actually Temur (GUR), but he was mono-red in M19.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
My favorite thing in the art: that squirrel who is charging with Ajani. It looks ready for Bolas.
Hopefully Tibalt is a two-drop again, and is worth playing, but not overpowered.
Planeswalkers tend to be midrangy and grindy but they don't have to be like that. They're going to need some more aggressive planeswalkers, and that's not undoable.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
Duder 1M
Legendary Planeswalker - Duder (U)
+1: Utility
-4: Strong 1-shot
{[2]}
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Unsurprising, since that's highly consistent with how they've handled planeswalkers. There has never been a reprint of a planeswalker in an expansion set. All planeswalker reprints have either occurred in a reprint-heavy booster like Masters and core sets, in a preconstructed deck, or in the form of a promo, such as SDCC or mythic edition.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Power-wise, I mean.
The stained glass versions of the art looks pretty cool, and I imagine the card versions will look fantastic.
Unknown Woman #1 appears to use either ice or light magic. It's difficult to tell due to the stained glass filter.
Unknown Woman #2 is mysterious and cool; what with her giant face-obscuring hat and giant cloth/feather blade and all.
Tezzeret's absence is peculiar. Garruk's too, but for different reasons.
I wonder why they included boy and his dog but not Mu Yanling. Is it because they realized they've "accidentally" pigeon-holed all the female, asian-coded planeswalkers as being bookish, librarian types?
Dack's absence, while a shame, is probably for the best.
And they're all new!? That means we can get BR Ob Nixilis and Tibalt proper! Most of the PWs will probably be multicolor, in fact. We might even get a good number of tricolor PWs, to limit how many PWs can be played in a particular deck in Standard.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Not only that, but that would make all 36 flipwalkers playable as commanders, which would excite a lot
of players.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I don't get how he's reaching this conclusion from MaRo's post, when the post clearly states that the PW in every pack itself was the crazy mechanic.
"bidoofvselite-four asked: So War of the Spark is confirmed to have 36 planeswalkers, with a planeswalker in every pack. Is that the crazy aspect about the set that you're super excited for us you see?
Yes! : )"
So, there's no indication here that they are all flip walkers or that there's an additional crazy aspect. Now, they could still all be flip walkers, we don't know, but this isn't very compelling evidence.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
here
While wishing is free, I'm going to need some compelling evidence before I buy into this theory.
Red removal would be easiest to do it with. "CARDNAME deals N damage to any target." or "CARDNAME deals N damage to target creature or planeswalker."
For black, you have Hero's Downfall and maybe a Vampire Hexmage type effect?
Green's fine (noncreature permanent). Blue has counters, and white has O-rings.
Besides that, you can just attack until they lose all their loyalty. It creates somewhat painful minigames, but still...
Presumably there will also be a wipe. Every good event comic has some panel that everyone remembers. Thanos snaps his fingers. The Flash gets paradox'd out of existence. (They did bring him back, 23 years later. Obligatory "Goddammit, Barry." for Flashpoint existing.) Bolas steals everybody's spark.
Tibalt could very well be the "Dan Hibiki" of Magic. (I'd continue the comic book metaphor, but then I remembered DC took a different arc with Doctor Light.)
I tend to see planeswalkers as something for midrange or control, possibly infinite combos. But you do have to remember control when talking about planeswalkers: Superfriends was a control deck, as was Caw-Blade, a.k.a. the first deck to end in a planeswalker being banned.
On phasing:
I honestly hope you are right, they often make balancing mistakes on planeswalkers unfortunately.
Looks black, but is canonically a (very) dark brown.
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/140482411303/today-is-my-birthday-can-i-have-some-trivia-on-my
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
36 walkers is pretty crazy. Planeswalkers are complicated enough already, and they represent something that is hypothetically rare (even if Vraska, Domri, and Ral are all from Ravnica; Chandra and Saheeli are both from Kaladesh; Kiora and Nissa are both from Zendikar; etc.)
On phasing: