Not a big fan of this unless there's a TPK of all planeswalkers and we go a few years without any of them in Standard.
Or give us something like this: "Planar Rod, 2. Artifact - Abilities of Planeswalkers may not be activated. Exile all emblems. Players may not gain emblems, use an emblem's ability or be the target of an emblem's ability."
Immortal Sun reprint would be fine, but shave a bunch of abilities and just make a harsh hoser = better.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Garruk = Buy-a-Box promo from the set "White knight outrage about toxic masculinity in a fantasy game taken out of context and without shame on protecting fictional women"
In all seiouly wizards is on a hiatus with Garruk because redit users think Triumph of Ferocity is ofensive and the character should be killed to never be remembered again. I don't want to start a controversity but outrage about minimal and ridicule things is a thing in the "mtg community" even Jin Davis and PewDiePie can't escape the outrage.
Soo expect to never see garruk again and later in story learn he was killed off screen
Apparently Wizards disagrees. (See Attachment)
Nice to see that. Maybe we see a new Garruk card among the new 36 planeswalkers?
In all seiouly wizards is on a hiatus with Garruk because redit users think Triumph of Ferocity is ofensive and the character should be killed to never be remembered again. I don't want to start a controversity but outrage about minimal and ridicule things is a thing in the "mtg community" even Jin Davis and PewDiePie can't escape the outrage.
I like to know how this rumor started.
It's pretty clear that Garruk storyline was a mess even before the outrage. He was supposed to be cured by Avacyn. But suddenly they decided to make him even more corrupt.
"hey we have a problem, you know that character that was supposed to be cured by his curse? We have a backlash because he's too violent and embodies toxic masculinity"
"i know what to do! Retcon his cure and make him even more violent and unstable!"
it's clear that they changed Garruk's destiny abruptly and not because of the backlash.
Now he's in a limbo because they retconned Liliana into some sort of tragic heroine and you can't bring Garruk back without showing that Liliana was actually a big, chaotic evil ***** without any good or anti-heroic intention.
There was some backlash against the art (given the history of domestic violence), so a bunch of entitled white males who feel like the game no longer catering specifically to them is the worst thing that could ever happen decided to glom onto this as evidence of the "SJW agenda" to ruin magic.
It ignores, of course, the fact that we got a garruk a full 2 years AFTER triumph of ferocity, but logic was never the strong suit of that corner of the internet.
Is arms down palms forward the default planeswalker pose?
If you could fire spells from your palms with fancy hand movements it would be your default position too.
But I am a planeswalker based on all the marketing...
I guess I just prefer when they are shown doing something or taking some sort of action. Hell even Jace looks like he's doing something or going somewhere not just chargin up my spell.
Okay people, we're starting to get a little side tracked here. Speculating about Garruk's appropriateness as a character is off topic. You want to talk about plot reasons why we aren't seeing Garruk, Dack, Daretti and others in this set, I'd prefer it in speculation but I'll allow it. What I'm not allowing is speculation based on social motivations on Wizards part.
I think Garruk was likely replaced with Jiang. Not because of social issues, but because Garruk eating random walkers would have distracted from the Bolas plot, and because they wanted to save him for later. If nothing else, people's response to his absence is enough to demonstrate his popularity, and guarantee him a role in the future.
Sorin being in is the one that I think is an odd choice. They have Kaya, so they didn't really need another BW walker, and just skipping to him being free and fine seems kinda lame considering how SOI went.
In all seiouly wizards is on a hiatus with Garruk because redit users think Triumph of Ferocity is ofensive and the character should be killed to never be remembered again. I don't want to start a controversity but outrage about minimal and ridicule things is a thing in the "mtg community" even Jin Davis and PewDiePie can't escape the outrage.
I like to know how this rumor started.
It's pretty clear that Garruk storyline was a mess even before the outrage. He was supposed to be cured by Avacyn. But suddenly they decided to make him even more corrupt.
"hey we have a problem, you know that character that was supposed to be cured by his curse? We have a backlash because he's too violent and embodies toxic masculinity"
"i know what to do! Retcon his cure and make him even more violent and unstable!"
it's clear that they changed Garruk's destiny abruptly and not because of the backlash.
Now he's in a limbo because they retconned Liliana into some sort of tragic heroine and you can't bring Garruk back without showing that Liliana was actually a big, chaotic evil ***** without any good or anti-heroic intention.
Except that it was Garruk's own fault that he was cursed by Liliana (whom I am tired of, myself, her and Jace) in the first place. His beast attacked her, was killed, and the moron chased her down and attacked her. As a result of her defending herself, via the Chain Veil, he was cursed. Then he is written like any thirteen-year-old's version of a barbarian badass who overpowers everyone he comes across with rippling sinews and bestial grunts and so on. He's just a terribly-written character whose own meat-headed idiocy got him cursed. I wish they'd kill him and Liliana off at the same time, and Jace, but unfortunately that's all a little too much to ask.
Still, there's no sympathy to Garruk's story here. It's not like he was wrongly cursed or was the innocent victim in all this. He's just as big of a prick as Liliana is, so neither of 'em deserve much in the way of sympathy here.
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She was made of November rain
Pleasure and pain
Scorpion stings
Pretty things
and the flames of Phoenix wings
—Michelle Schaper
In all seiouly wizards is on a hiatus with Garruk because redit users think Triumph of Ferocity is ofensive and the character should be killed to never be remembered again. I don't want to start a controversity but outrage about minimal and ridicule things is a thing in the "mtg community" even Jin Davis and PewDiePie can't escape the outrage.
Nah, no way. This is the viewpoint of someone who lives in the Internet commenter fishbowl. This is not representative of the greater MtG Community. Garruk is fine.
Keep on thinking Jaina Proudmoore walker is Elspeth
Jushh
I like to know how this rumor started.
It's pretty clear that Garruk storyline was a mess even before the outrage. He was supposed to be cured by Avacyn. But suddenly they decided to make him even more corrupt.
"hey we have a problem, you know that character that was supposed to be cured by his curse? We have a backlash because he's too violent and embodies toxic masculinity"
"i know what to do! Retcon his cure and make him even more violent and unstable!"
it's clear that they changed Garruk's destiny abruptly and not because of the backlash.
Now he's in a limbo because they retconned Liliana into some sort of tragic heroine and you can't bring Garruk back without showing that Liliana was actually a big, chaotic evil ***** without any good or anti-heroic intention.
Garruk = Buy-a-Box promo from the set "White knight outrage about toxic masculinity in a fantasy game taken out of context and without shame on protecting fictional women"
In all seiouly wizards is on a hiatus with Garruk because redit users think Triumph of Ferocity is ofensive and the character should be killed to never be remembered again. I don't want to start a controversity but outrage about minimal and ridicule things is a thing in the "mtg community" even Jin Davis and PewDiePie can't escape the outrage.
Soo expect to never see garruk again and later in story learn he was killed off screen
Explain something to me then. Triumph of Ferocity was in Avacyn Returned and thats when the backlash happened. Garruk was then the focus of m15. Since wizards works years in advance they would have been in the early stages of M15 (or not even started the set) when the Garruk backlash happened. So given they had time why did still go ahead and use Garruk as the focus?
Well jokes aside, i think people underestimate the work they have put in M15, it was between Return to Ravnica, Theros, and Khans, had more story than the previous coreset (M14), the develop team also prob had to start to work on the designs and story detals way ahead because with M15 also came Duels of The Planeswalkers 2015 that had way more 3D animation elements to it. Soo it was basically a set (that had new arts, concepts, and storyline) made between 3 big sets with brand new characters. And Also we can't forget Conspiracy 1 from the list of "Storyline sets" that came before or right after M15, if they started the development of it betwen RTR development, it was probably (my speculation) too short of a time to remake the story of a Core set over a PR case (also make new contracts for arts for other cards, and play test new cards). Most of the "garruk got banned" thing is more of a joke speculation, but the short time to change things and the fact that they in fact responded to this and made a new art for the card in that duel of planeswalker expansion gives wings to imagination.
But ye, it is not like WotC has abandoneded the character or will kill it as soon as they can, but more like they have retired hin out from the spolight to make sure there will not be PR problems (speculation). But as we can see they have been putting hin in suplemental products (reprints of hin and his horde) and is a question of time until they put hin back in the spotlight
I wonder what kinds of abilities all these planeswalkers will have? I mean, it's pretty obvious what most of their skill sets will be, but how are they going to distinguish, say, Chandra and Jaya or Vivien and Yanggu?
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
War of the Spark, by definition, can’t just be planeswalkers the way we’ve always done them. The challenge of the design was rethinking a lot of things including what tools were available to us.
War of the Spark is not going to be planeswalker status quo, but then innovation seldom is.
So something will be different with the planeswalkers. Maybe they have only minus abilities. Or they only gain loyalty counters with a trigger-kind of effect, like when creature dies or some kind of card type is cast in combination of having less impactful minus abilities. I don't know.
Since some people mentioned Immortal Sun. Maybe WoTC will make a version of it at 4 cmc or even at 2 cmc, work like a Stony Silence that stops walkers from activating?
Since some people mentioned Immortal Sun. Maybe WoTC will make a version of it at 4 cmc or even at 2 cmc, work like a Stony Silence that stops walkers from activating?
This would be brutal in the same set. I could see this, if planeswalker would be too strong/present in standard in a set after this one. More likely would be a destroy target planeswalker spell.
Maybe they'll be doing the God thing with Planeswalkers this time around - "X is a legendary creature until conditions Y and Z are met, at which point it becomes a Legendary Planeswalker and gains these abilities".
War of the Spark, by definition, can’t just be planeswalkers the way we’ve always done them. The challenge of the design was rethinking a lot of things including what tools were available to us.
War of the Spark is not going to be planeswalker status quo, but then innovation seldom is.
So something will be different with the planeswalkers. Maybe they have only minus abilities. Or they only gain loyalty counters with a trigger-kind of effect, like when creature dies or some kind of card type is cast in combination of having less impactful minus abilities. I don't know.
Hopefully it's many different new concepts. One only has a +1 and a -1, no ult. One only gets loyalty if you're dealt damage and only has an ult. One has two + abilities but no ult so it gives loyalty to another planeswalker to unload loyalty, Etc.
Except that it was Garruk's own fault that he was cursed by Liliana (whom I am tired of, myself, her and Jace) in the first place. His beast attacked her, was killed, and the moron chased her down and attacked her. As a result of her defending herself, via the Chain Veil, he was cursed. Then he is written like any thirteen-year-old's version of a barbarian badass who overpowers everyone he comes across with rippling sinews and bestial grunts and so on. He's just a terribly-written character whose own meat-headed idiocy got him cursed. I wish they'd kill him and Liliana off at the same time, and Jace, but unfortunately that's all a little too much to ask.
Still, there's no sympathy to Garruk's story here. It's not like he was wrongly cursed or was the innocent victim in all this. He's just as big of a prick as Liliana is, so neither of 'em deserve much in the way of sympathy here.
Yeah because caring for wildlife and trying to stop, or at least get explanations for a demonic/necromantic ritual is moronic and childish
And yeah, those weren't his beasts. They were wild beasts, because the story is set on shandalar, the home plane of thragtusk and similar beasts.
He was totally the victim, Liliana acted like the classic chaotic evil character, mocking and not caring about others at best and well, trying to mortally curse them at worse.
I know read what non-affiliated people said about this. It doesn't means they have any relevance to wotc though.
Garruk storyline had many issues and blurred lines.
Right now is almost a mindless planeswalker-killer. It's pretty easy to understand why he wasn't put in this set: we need only 1 planeswalker killer, that's Bolas
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Since some people mentioned Immortal Sun. Maybe WoTC will make a version of it at 4 cmc or even at 2 cmc, work like a Stony Silence that stops walkers from activating?
I dunno about IS, but I fully expect a grixis colored wrath effect for walkers. We already have Sorcerous Spyglass. Some are speculating we could get a Pithing Needle reprint. Some sort of Vampire Hexmage variant seems like a no brainer as well.
Maro did say recently that the story will feature more planeswalkers than just the 36 that will be getting cards. So, that doesn't necessarily count out an appearance from the likes of Garruk, Sorin, or other erstwhile planeswalkers not featured on the stained glass.
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
Now he's in a limbo because they retconned Liliana into some sort of tragic heroine and you can't bring Garruk back without showing that Liliana was actually a big, chaotic evil ***** without any good or anti-heroic intention.
I think you hit the biggest reason tbh, they put Liliana on a antihero/semi-redemption arc and its worth more to wait for her be more of a heroic character so that when Garruk returns he can use as a ugly reminder of who she was. It also put some tense to the gatewatch to see if they want to risk helping Liliana (through guilt or true friendship) or not. Garruk is like Ajani sized, thats pretty intimidating.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
lol the reddit mainsub mods are deleting any post that mentions support for Garruk. WotC's reasons for him to not be around may be completely innocuous but the losers that manage that circus are going full secret police about it anyway.
Maro did say recently that the story will feature more planeswalkers than just the 36 that will be getting cards. So, that doesn't necessarily count out an appearance from the likes of Garruk, Sorin, or other erstwhile planeswalkers not featured on the stained glass.
Do we have a thread where all the stained glass walker pictures are being uploaded? thanks.
Sorry, this might seem lazy.. but we have many threads all talking about the new 36 walkers and I'm confused where the stained glass pics are.
Since some people mentioned Immortal Sun. Maybe WoTC will make a version of it at 4 cmc or even at 2 cmc, work like a Stony Silence that stops walkers from activating?
I dunno about IS, but I fully expect a grixis colored wrath effect for walkers. We already have Sorcerous Spyglass. Some are speculating we could get a Pithing Needle reprint. Some sort of Vampire Hexmage variant seems like a no brainer as well.
Hmm, there is also the one mana phyrexian artifact creature printed a long time ago to hose walkers.
Just forgot the name of that thing. Have one of it in one of my card boxes.
Now he's in a limbo because they retconned Liliana into some sort of tragic heroine and you can't bring Garruk back without showing that Liliana was actually a big, chaotic evil ***** without any good or anti-heroic intention.
I think you hit the biggest reason tbh, they put Liliana on a antihero/semi-redemption arc and its worth more to wait for her be more of a heroic character so that when Garruk returns he can use as a ugly reminder of who she was. It also put some tense to the gatewatch to see if they want to risk helping Liliana (through guilt or true friendship) or not. Garruk is like Ajani sized, thats pretty intimidating.
Rerferring to the bolded part. Agreed on that. I remember a comic Garruk visiting Jace on Ravnica.. Garruk first thrashed the blue creature guarding Jace office. Before thrashing Jace himself. Garruk is a big man... if he was a creature, I'm sure he would at least be a 4/4 or larger.
Or give us something like this: "Planar Rod, 2. Artifact - Abilities of Planeswalkers may not be activated. Exile all emblems. Players may not gain emblems, use an emblem's ability or be the target of an emblem's ability."
Immortal Sun reprint would be fine, but shave a bunch of abilities and just make a harsh hoser = better.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Nice to see that. Maybe we see a new Garruk card among the new 36 planeswalkers?
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There was some backlash against the art (given the history of domestic violence), so a bunch of entitled white males who feel like the game no longer catering specifically to them is the worst thing that could ever happen decided to glom onto this as evidence of the "SJW agenda" to ruin magic.
It ignores, of course, the fact that we got a garruk a full 2 years AFTER triumph of ferocity, but logic was never the strong suit of that corner of the internet.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
But I am a planeswalker based on all the marketing...
I guess I just prefer when they are shown doing something or taking some sort of action. Hell even Jace looks like he's doing something or going somewhere not just chargin up my spell.
Also is that a Dovin imposter. No sixth finger!
Sorin being in is the one that I think is an odd choice. They have Kaya, so they didn't really need another BW walker, and just skipping to him being free and fine seems kinda lame considering how SOI went.
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My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
They could let Standard have a few months of superfriends and then Big G could bring the beatstick to all the weaklings who think they’re cool.
But who knows what they got planned. Maybe they move the planeswalkers down to the rare category there as well, well excpet for Garruk.
Except that it was Garruk's own fault that he was cursed by Liliana (whom I am tired of, myself, her and Jace) in the first place. His beast attacked her, was killed, and the moron chased her down and attacked her. As a result of her defending herself, via the Chain Veil, he was cursed. Then he is written like any thirteen-year-old's version of a barbarian badass who overpowers everyone he comes across with rippling sinews and bestial grunts and so on. He's just a terribly-written character whose own meat-headed idiocy got him cursed. I wish they'd kill him and Liliana off at the same time, and Jace, but unfortunately that's all a little too much to ask.
Still, there's no sympathy to Garruk's story here. It's not like he was wrongly cursed or was the innocent victim in all this. He's just as big of a prick as Liliana is, so neither of 'em deserve much in the way of sympathy here.
Pleasure and pain
Scorpion stings
Pretty things
and the flames of Phoenix wings
—Michelle Schaper
Keep on thinking Jaina Proudmoore walker is Elspeth
Jushh
Well jokes aside, i think people underestimate the work they have put in M15, it was between Return to Ravnica, Theros, and Khans, had more story than the previous coreset (M14), the develop team also prob had to start to work on the designs and story detals way ahead because with M15 also came Duels of The Planeswalkers 2015 that had way more 3D animation elements to it. Soo it was basically a set (that had new arts, concepts, and storyline) made between 3 big sets with brand new characters. And Also we can't forget Conspiracy 1 from the list of "Storyline sets" that came before or right after M15, if they started the development of it betwen RTR development, it was probably (my speculation) too short of a time to remake the story of a Core set over a PR case (also make new contracts for arts for other cards, and play test new cards). Most of the "garruk got banned" thing is more of a joke speculation, but the short time to change things and the fact that they in fact responded to this and made a new art for the card in that duel of planeswalker expansion gives wings to imagination.
There are alot things you can read about it
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/328556-magic-artwork-is-sexist-we-insult-woman
https://badmagicplayer.wordpress.com/2012/05/03/triumph-of-ferocity-more-than-just-a-card/
https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2016/06/learned-can-stick-apology/
https://nurgleprobe.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/card-discussion-triumph-of-ferocity-the-artwork-with-an-issue/
https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/jessemason-042312-liliana-and-garruk/
But ye, it is not like WotC has abandoneded the character or will kill it as soon as they can, but more like they have retired hin out from the spolight to make sure there will not be PR problems (speculation). But as we can see they have been putting hin in suplemental products (reprints of hin and his horde) and is a question of time until they put hin back in the spotlight
#SorryModsForTheReadoc
With this many walkers do you guys feel the immortal sun will get a reprint or be made in a different way in the set
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/183339857313/a-concern-ive-had-some-of-my-friends-talk-about
The interesting part:
So something will be different with the planeswalkers. Maybe they have only minus abilities. Or they only gain loyalty counters with a trigger-kind of effect, like when creature dies or some kind of card type is cast in combination of having less impactful minus abilities. I don't know.
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This would be brutal in the same set. I could see this, if planeswalker would be too strong/present in standard in a set after this one. More likely would be a destroy target planeswalker spell.
Hopefully it's many different new concepts. One only has a +1 and a -1, no ult. One only gets loyalty if you're dealt damage and only has an ult. One has two + abilities but no ult so it gives loyalty to another planeswalker to unload loyalty, Etc.
Yeah because caring for wildlife and trying to stop, or at least get explanations for a demonic/necromantic ritual is moronic and childish
And yeah, those weren't his beasts. They were wild beasts, because the story is set on shandalar, the home plane of thragtusk and similar beasts.
He was totally the victim, Liliana acted like the classic chaotic evil character, mocking and not caring about others at best and well, trying to mortally curse them at worse.
I know read what non-affiliated people said about this. It doesn't means they have any relevance to wotc though.
Garruk storyline had many issues and blurred lines.
Right now is almost a mindless planeswalker-killer. It's pretty easy to understand why he wasn't put in this set: we need only 1 planeswalker killer, that's Bolas
My 720 Peasant Cube
I think you hit the biggest reason tbh, they put Liliana on a antihero/semi-redemption arc and its worth more to wait for her be more of a heroic character so that when Garruk returns he can use as a ugly reminder of who she was. It also put some tense to the gatewatch to see if they want to risk helping Liliana (through guilt or true friendship) or not. Garruk is like Ajani sized, thats pretty intimidating.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Do we have a thread where all the stained glass walker pictures are being uploaded? thanks.
Sorry, this might seem lazy.. but we have many threads all talking about the new 36 walkers and I'm confused where the stained glass pics are.
EDIT: found the stained glass thread
Hmm, there is also the one mana phyrexian artifact creature printed a long time ago to hose walkers.
Just forgot the name of that thing. Have one of it in one of my card boxes.
Rerferring to the bolded part. Agreed on that. I remember a comic Garruk visiting Jace on Ravnica.. Garruk first thrashed the blue creature guarding Jace office. Before thrashing Jace himself. Garruk is a big man... if he was a creature, I'm sure he would at least be a 4/4 or larger.
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The other planeswalker would be like expedition and treasure. So technically not part of the block but reprints instead.