I dunno if I like this approach. If the card is leading to undesirable game states online, why would I want to bet $70usd on tournament entry and risk losing to looped turns as well. How is that any more desirable.
I play turns in modern for fun every now, but if it was a legit deck I wouldn't want to see it very often. Watching someone else play magic for 10 min at a time isn't fun. Even victories against these strats feel hollow.
This also sets precedence to set market expectations. If the natural progression is to ban in arena and then ban in paper there could be quite a heavy impact on the price barrier. Now players are forced with the unfortunate choice of do I buy/trade for this card that obviously has a target on it even though it yields me the best chance of spiking this tournament - or play it safe and take a known quantity that may have a slightly better than abysmal chance against the rest of the field but beats that deck?
I'll have to stew on this one for awhile. On the bright side I'm glad they are at least paying atttention.
I dunno if I like this approach. If the card is leading to undesirable game states online, why would I want to bet $70usd on tournament entry and risk losing to looped turns as well. How is that any more desirable.
I play turns in modern for fun every now, but if it was a legit deck I wouldn't want to see it very often. Watching someone else play magic for 10 min at a time isn't fun. Even victories against these strats feel hollow.
This also sets precedence to set market expectations. If the natural progression is to ban in arena and then ban in paper there could be quite a heavy impact on the price barrier. Now players are forced with the unfortunate choice of do I buy/trade for this card that obviously has a target on it even though it yields me the best chance of spiking this tournament - or play it safe and take a known quantity that may have a slightly better than abysmal chance against the rest of the field but beats that deck?
I'll have to stew on this one for awhile. On the bright side I'm glad they are at least paying atttention.
The article has been pretty clear about it that the problem is the Magic Arena client and not Nexus of Fate. In paper there are judges and shortcuts. In the Magic Online client you will simply time out and lose the match if you want to loop endlessly. Arena has none of those things so you can actually loop endlessly and there is nothing you can do about it.
to do what? To skip turns until a player says "nah, I'll do something different this time"?
A match timer would be ok, but for the time being, I'm happy with the ban. At least it will shake up the meta a bit.
I dunno if I like this approach. If the card is leading to undesirable game states online, why would I want to bet $70usd on tournament entry and risk losing to looped turns as well. How is that any more desirable.
I play turns in modern for fun every now, but if it was a legit deck I wouldn't want to see it very often. Watching someone else play magic for 10 min at a time isn't fun. Even victories against these strats feel hollow.
This also sets precedence to set market expectations. If the natural progression is to ban in arena and then ban in paper there could be quite a heavy impact on the price barrier. Now players are forced with the unfortunate choice of do I buy/trade for this card that obviously has a target on it even though it yields me the best chance of spiking this tournament - or play it safe and take a known quantity that may have a slightly better than abysmal chance against the rest of the field but beats that deck?
I'll have to stew on this one for awhile. On the bright side I'm glad they are at least paying atttention.
The article has been pretty clear about it that the problem is the Magic Arena client and not Nexus of Fate. In paper there are judges and shortcuts. In the Magic Online client you will simply time out and lose the match if you want to loop endlessly. Arena has none of those things so you can actually loop endlessly and there is nothing you can do about it.
The article directly drew parallels to eggs and is specifically stating it's not meta share or dominance that led to the decision. It supported it by calling out to feedback receipt from the community and pros specifically. Now granted it further supports the ban by addressing the technical limitation of arena complicating the problem after that.
The ban is very much tied to multiple aspects and I don't disagree with that. My personal gripe is with play experience and not system limitations.
I believe they stated that modern's KCI in particular has had a very low MTGO representation in part because of the system limitations of executing the kill.
When the community blew up at the spoiler, the false sense of scarcity drove the price up afterwards (even though Maro stated on blogatog that there are more copies of nexus out in the wild than any other mythic from the set), and when wilderness reclaimatiom was spoiled my opinion never changed. This card is bad design and leads to undesirable magic.
For the record you can throw teferi looping himself into that pile as well.
They basically state in the article that they banned this because it makes MtG look bad as an E-Sport.
I don't believe in the whole death-of-paper-magic theory, but I dislike that they're making decisions about card design and game bannings based on the impact on digital formats and now apparently streaming. Part of the allure of the game, at least for me, is that these type of interactions CAN happen - it's why I love playing EDH. I don't know if I'm an outlier in that respect, but it sure seems like it.
A NOTE ON PLAYER COLLECTIONS
Players who had Nexus of Fate as a part of their in-game collection on MTG Arena prior to this announcement will receive an equal number of mythic rare Wildcards to their collection as part of today's update. These additional mythic rare Wildcards will be automatically added to player collections, and there will be no in-game notification of this grant. We have also updated the Core Set 2019 in-game store bundles that previously included Nexus of Fate, and players will now receive a copy of Omniscience instead.
Players can still redeem mythic rare Wildcards for Nexus of Fate for play in non–Arena Standard formats.
I think that this was a pretty reasonable choice tbh.
I didn't play much BO1 but just the idea of playing against any Nexus deck seemed annoying. Trying tp push Magic as an E-Sport seems counter intuitive when you can play a deck that can essentially "lock" your opponent of the game
I'm actually kind of surprised it wasn't just a flat ban in all standard formats. For tournament play this card is horrific. Last major standard tournament I went to reclamation was everywhere, and as a result every round went way past time, like almost old eggs levels of past time. Add in the fact that the card itself is only available as a buy a box promo to make very VERY hard to obtain, and you have a recipe for a really toxic card. Also probably should have been flat banned in arena, cause even in traditional, the way the client is set up, someone can just loop without a wincon infinitely.
My guess is that they didn't want to ban the box topper at all costs, so they only banned it on Arena.
Cut out that conspiracy stuff. In the article they explicitly state that Nexus didn't come anywhere near to the most common objective measure to determine paper bans, namely results in major tournaments. What you suggest flies directly in the face of what they have been trying to achieve with the box toppers in the first place, namely being interesting casual cards. There is no evidence to suggest that competitiveness is a goal of box toppers.
My guess is that they didn't want to ban the box topper at all costs, so they only banned it on Arena.
Cut the conspiracy crap. In the article they explicitly state that Nexus didn't come anywhere near to the most common objective measure to determine paper bans, namely results in major tournaments. What you suggest flies directly in the face of what they have been trying to achieve with the box toppers in the first place, namely being interesting casual cards. There is no evidence to suggest that competitiveness is a goal of box toppers.
There is no conspiracy, the article also quoted the headaches that decks like eggs cause. This card can cause logistical issues in a tournament setting which is why the parallel was drawn.
The box topper, to be a success, has to entice a buyer to bite. The only way to do that for the vast majority of players is to make a card competitive in some format. Playability so far outweighs artwork, scarcity (except the most rare cases like quarter of a century old cards), and flavor it ain't even funny. The box topper cannot serve two masters - it cannot be casual and competitive in a format without the market starting to influence price. Nexus checks too many boxes, period. It's standard playable in multiples, it's great in commander, it's splashy/flashy and collectible.
If haunt if Hightower is any indication, they're marketing to commander crowd now (who in all honesty are likely to pick up a box with likely single copies of multiple rates/mythics). I have no idea if that is a big enough draw for the product to positively impact LGS sales or not.
mapccu made most of my point already. I mean Sensei's Divining Top is banned from Modern for logistical reasons and it is a lot less involved then Nexus of Fate.
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i dunno if i like the standard this will set for design...
you can't really design for arena and paper, and then just ban in arena when the rules go wonky or make the game take forever, so it stands to reason to combat that issue you'd have to design cards that can't be abused like that any more, cards that don't slow things down or stall or causes overly complicated gamestates... if that starts to happen... well that'll be a faster death spiral for mtg than anything else. even beebles. you can only have craw wurms smash each other for so long.
They are just too stupid to properly program their software.
The easy way out is to flex the rules of the game to the software and simply ban cards for use in that software.
Its a pathetic show of failed software skills.
But what else to expect from WotC , thats how they operate now.
I'm really not sure what you're getting at. Or have you forgotten that Rampaging Ferocidon(the only card banned in standard right now) is worked into the game for limited purposes but is uncraftable for that exact reason? If they wanted to entirely ban the card from Arena outside of M19 limited they could do so, it was a decision they made.
Obviously the best response would have been "don't print Nexus of Fate in the first place" (As soon as I saw it I expected the card to be broken in some dumb format, but I was anticipating vintage/legacy not standard) but all things considered this is probably the second best option. The people who felt obligated to craft the card for Bo1 Ranked get their wildcards refunded and the people who like Nexus decks in Bo3 formats can still play the deck they like, which has shown to be capable of handling it. And most importantly, the people who played the deck just to be trolls and make people stuck for hours and hours for their own self amusement get a big disincentive to keep doing so.
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The absolute minimum they could do? Sounds about right. I think the logistics reasons, combined with the optics on Twitch, should have been enough to ban it in Standard completely, but they don't want to ban a high-priced a card that sells boxes, same reason Teferi won't get the banhammer. Both of those, along with Wilderness Reclamation, are poor design that leads to solitaire games as the entire win condition of the decks that run them.
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Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
Thank god. Playing against Nexus on Arena is some of the least fun I've had playing standard (probably) ever. This is including Faeries, Affinity, Caw-Blade, Ramunap Red, etc.
Constantly seeing Nexus of Fate on Arena made me take a break from the client for a few weeks.
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Still legal in paper where you can shortcut. Seems fair.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
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I play turns in modern for fun every now, but if it was a legit deck I wouldn't want to see it very often. Watching someone else play magic for 10 min at a time isn't fun. Even victories against these strats feel hollow.
This also sets precedence to set market expectations. If the natural progression is to ban in arena and then ban in paper there could be quite a heavy impact on the price barrier. Now players are forced with the unfortunate choice of do I buy/trade for this card that obviously has a target on it even though it yields me the best chance of spiking this tournament - or play it safe and take a known quantity that may have a slightly better than abysmal chance against the rest of the field but beats that deck?
I'll have to stew on this one for awhile. On the bright side I'm glad they are at least paying atttention.
The article has been pretty clear about it that the problem is the Magic Arena client and not Nexus of Fate. In paper there are judges and shortcuts. In the Magic Online client you will simply time out and lose the match if you want to loop endlessly. Arena has none of those things so you can actually loop endlessly and there is nothing you can do about it.
A match timer would be ok, but for the time being, I'm happy with the ban. At least it will shake up the meta a bit.
The article directly drew parallels to eggs and is specifically stating it's not meta share or dominance that led to the decision. It supported it by calling out to feedback receipt from the community and pros specifically. Now granted it further supports the ban by addressing the technical limitation of arena complicating the problem after that.
The ban is very much tied to multiple aspects and I don't disagree with that. My personal gripe is with play experience and not system limitations.
I believe they stated that modern's KCI in particular has had a very low MTGO representation in part because of the system limitations of executing the kill.
When the community blew up at the spoiler, the false sense of scarcity drove the price up afterwards (even though Maro stated on blogatog that there are more copies of nexus out in the wild than any other mythic from the set), and when wilderness reclaimatiom was spoiled my opinion never changed. This card is bad design and leads to undesirable magic.
For the record you can throw teferi looping himself into that pile as well.
I don't believe in the whole death-of-paper-magic theory, but I dislike that they're making decisions about card design and game bannings based on the impact on digital formats and now apparently streaming. Part of the allure of the game, at least for me, is that these type of interactions CAN happen - it's why I love playing EDH. I don't know if I'm an outlier in that respect, but it sure seems like it.
I didn't play much BO1 but just the idea of playing against any Nexus deck seemed annoying. Trying tp push Magic as an E-Sport seems counter intuitive when you can play a deck that can essentially "lock" your opponent of the game
The easy way out is to flex the rules of the game to the software and simply ban cards for use in that software.
Its a pathetic show of failed software skills.
But what else to expect from WotC , thats how they operate now.
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Cut out that conspiracy stuff. In the article they explicitly state that Nexus didn't come anywhere near to the most common objective measure to determine paper bans, namely results in major tournaments. What you suggest flies directly in the face of what they have been trying to achieve with the box toppers in the first place, namely being interesting casual cards. There is no evidence to suggest that competitiveness is a goal of box toppers.
Oh well.
Spirits
There is no conspiracy, the article also quoted the headaches that decks like eggs cause. This card can cause logistical issues in a tournament setting which is why the parallel was drawn.
The box topper, to be a success, has to entice a buyer to bite. The only way to do that for the vast majority of players is to make a card competitive in some format. Playability so far outweighs artwork, scarcity (except the most rare cases like quarter of a century old cards), and flavor it ain't even funny. The box topper cannot serve two masters - it cannot be casual and competitive in a format without the market starting to influence price. Nexus checks too many boxes, period. It's standard playable in multiples, it's great in commander, it's splashy/flashy and collectible.
If haunt if Hightower is any indication, they're marketing to commander crowd now (who in all honesty are likely to pick up a box with likely single copies of multiple rates/mythics). I have no idea if that is a big enough draw for the product to positively impact LGS sales or not.
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
you can't really design for arena and paper, and then just ban in arena when the rules go wonky or make the game take forever, so it stands to reason to combat that issue you'd have to design cards that can't be abused like that any more, cards that don't slow things down or stall or causes overly complicated gamestates... if that starts to happen... well that'll be a faster death spiral for mtg than anything else. even beebles. you can only have craw wurms smash each other for so long.
I'm really not sure what you're getting at. Or have you forgotten that Rampaging Ferocidon(the only card banned in standard right now) is worked into the game for limited purposes but is uncraftable for that exact reason? If they wanted to entirely ban the card from Arena outside of M19 limited they could do so, it was a decision they made.
Obviously the best response would have been "don't print Nexus of Fate in the first place" (As soon as I saw it I expected the card to be broken in some dumb format, but I was anticipating vintage/legacy not standard) but all things considered this is probably the second best option. The people who felt obligated to craft the card for Bo1 Ranked get their wildcards refunded and the people who like Nexus decks in Bo3 formats can still play the deck they like, which has shown to be capable of handling it. And most importantly, the people who played the deck just to be trolls and make people stuck for hours and hours for their own self amusement get a big disincentive to keep doing so.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
Yes. If you had the card, you got a new Mythic Wildcard.
If you buy the packs, you get Omniscience now instead.
Constantly seeing Nexus of Fate on Arena made me take a break from the client for a few weeks.