[quote from="RxPhantom »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/804209-rna-guildkits?comment=22"]
user: I disagree. This art is quite different, yes, but all other arts except her original one depict her with her walking cane and other stuff. If she were gesturing in this art with her cane instead of her hand, I would fully accept the art.
Do these 4 faces looks to belong to the same women to you? Not even the haircuts are remotely similar one each other. And about the last one is not the cane the only problem. She actually looks asian, this could be more Narset than Teysa.
The teysa art while not that great and certainly different from her other renditions enough to not even look like her is still a tremendously welcome change from the original art where she... was not the focus
The zegana art is trash, but at least feels menacing which is more in line with the card
Isperia is gorgeous
The deck lists are totally uninspired, and why shouldnt they be? These were going to sell anyway
im cool with the different renditions of character art. it showcases the artists interpretation, which fits into the idea that mtg is this expansive universe mostly imagined but experienced in small glimpses or snapshots. i think it lets you have this baseline and still maintain whatever version you have in your own mind. for instance if you have ever read a book/story, and then seen a movie or tv adaptation; once you have this strict definitions for what characters look like its difficult to go back to how you originally imagined them. at least it is for me anyways.
besides you should be used to it now with the various planeswalkers. where jace could be anything from this square jawed superman looking mfer or an emo who cant quite grow out of it.
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I was especially looking forward to the alternate versions of the Azorius and Simic leaders, but both are very "eh".
Zegana's "angry" art fits her trample-giving ability I guess, but also makes her look like some generic warrior. The real problem here probably isn't the art though - the execution is fine - but the dissonance between the ability and the card's name. In Magic, I associate the term "Utopia" with flavor themes as peace and defensiveorientation (low power/low aggression) as well as ramp. New Zegana has none of that, and the alternate art only exacerbates that separation. "Utopian Speaker" simply doesn't fit this version of her at all. Yes, her original card grew big too, but the carddraw was the more powerful part of her effect and it felt very appropriate for a figure representing a guild of scientists. This version feels like "Zegana, Fearless Adventurer".
I never quite liked the original version of Isperia, Supreme Judge since she looks so abnormally huge in that picture. The new version has a better color palette and I like the composition/background more, but the character itself just looks ... "off model", somehow. I also frankly just don't like Isperia's newer look with the blue fur, purple hair and padded armor/collar. Why did that even become a thing? Sphinx of New Prahv follows the "New Isperia" visual pattern, although I actually like the art on that card. Anyway, Isperia the Inscrutable still remains her best depiction, imo.
Teysa looks like a completely different person. Ruric Thar and Rakdos are fine, but I prefer the original version of both.
The decklists look generally weaker than the GRN ones, and less valuable too. In fact Rakdos is by far the most valuable at $35, where the least valuable from GRN started.
And yes, Teysa and Zegana are two more victims of identity politics stealing your identity. You are the powerful lawyer of a crime syndicate? The deposed voice of reason in a medical lab that got sold into an arms race? No, you're angry magic woman or angry fighting woman. Individuality might offend someone.
Heh. Well, to be honest, the Orzhov pin is my main reason for getting it, but got to say that doesn't look very Teysa-y to me at all. She's a calm schemer, not an angry spell-thrower. Oh well. The lands are nice though. And Debtors' Knell! Don't mind if I do.
Teysa: I'm part of the Orzhov Syndicate. That means I get to have some vague mystic smoke or something as background around me. Also, I do a pretty deece Narset impression.
Zegana: I'M A SIMIC MERFOLK WIZARD DUAL-WIELDING SWORDS AND IF YOU GIVE ME ANY CRAP I'LL GROW AN ARM OUT OF MY FOREHEAD AND STRANGLE YOU WITH IT.
Thought that Ruric was Raymond Swanland's work at first but it's still not bad.
Some never before printed tokens will be the 1/1 white and blue Bird token and a 2/1 haste goblin. Didn’t get the 1/1 blue green Snake from Patagia Viper. Am I missing any brand new tokens?
Can we give Skeletal Vampire a f**king break already? There is no demand for this card, and it's not evocative of the Orzhov Syndicate.
Aww, come on man. It's certainly not a monetarily valuable card. Barely ever was before it was reprinted into oblivion.
But how it not evocative of Orzhov? Sure, it's not the 500th Cleric/Spirit/Thrull in robes or gold armor, you have me there, but mechanically-speaking, it's 100% Orzhov. Very grindy and quite useful for Aristocrats-type decks. Card is great.
It's better than it looks if you have even a little mana to support him. He can be quite pesky to deal with. (Not near-impossible, but pesky for sure.)
edit: Wait. That's not Rakdos's belly in the picture? What is it then?
I like that Ruric Thar. If I do put him in the cube, might have to pick that one up. Are these Legends foil-only? Hope not.
im cool with the different renditions of character art. it showcases the artists interpretation, which fits into the idea that mtg is this expansive universe mostly imagined but experienced in small glimpses or snapshots. i think it lets you have this baseline and still maintain whatever version you have in your own mind. for instance if you have ever read a book/story, and then seen a movie or tv adaptation; once you have this strict definitions for what characters look like its difficult to go back to how you originally imagined them. at least it is for me anyways.
besides you should be used to it now with the various planeswalkers. where jace could be anything from this square jawed superman looking mfer or an emo who cant quite grow out of it.
While I agree artist interpretation is a thing; these are not even close (as user129..... illustrates with the pictures)
Planeswalkers hhave changed but are generally the same.
Apparently Teysa only art directive is Black hair, then do what you want.
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Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
And yes, Teysa and Zegana are two more victims of identity politics stealing your identity. You are the powerful lawyer of a crime syndicate? The deposed voice of reason in a medical lab that got sold into an arms race? No, you're angry magic woman or angry fighting woman. Individuality might offend someone.
Wowzers. I hope you stretched before you reached so hard. Weird incel rage aside, I'll stick up for the new Zegana art: she's actually doing something. On almost every single piece of art for a legendary creature, they're doing nothing; they're just standing there, posing. It's lame. At least with the new Zegana, she looks like she's about to kick some ass, as if the situation has compelled her to take up arms herself. It's evocative, and it begs the question of the circumstances leading up to it.
This new Teysa art, though...is just too boring to warrant any comment beyond this sentence.
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The only thing I'm really interested in are updated legendary borders and tokens that were never printed. Sad there is no Rakdos Guildmage or Pack Rat. This was the perfect time to print some long overdue Pack Rat tokens. Progenitor Mimic is interesting. This means we're going to get a new "copy" token with Progenitor Mimic art. Also, very sad Borborygmos Enraged and Prime Speaker Zegana are missing. I think they're iconic enough (and well loved in EDH) that they will probably get printings with updated borders some time down he line, but looks like I'm going to have to wait.
Edit: Rakdos Guildmage is in the Rakdos list. 2/1 goblins. Hooray. Still bummed that they had four chances to include Pack Rat and decided not to include them in any of the four black decks.
Thought that Ruric was Raymond Swanland's work at first but it's still not bad.
The colors, shading and slight diagonal positioning is good enough to fool at a glance (especially on card-size), although on closer observation Ruric does feel too "clean" across the art and arguably not "jagged" enough. Some people dislike his art for the "edginess" of that, but I feel that those are the factors that make him distinct within the pool of "realistic-style" artists, which is often difficult to do (abstract-style by default generally makes it easier to distinctly identify each artist, so while I definitely still support more diversity across the board, I do appreciate on an extra level the ability to distinctly differentiate yourself within the "realistic-style" segment.)
He did mention his work for MTG has more or less winded down (The Duel Decks Elvish Archdruid being the last card chronologically released and set-wise his last presence of new art was in Rivals of Ixalan) but hinted there were still a few more unreleased pieces and I'm still waiting for those.
That being said, I think Ruric Thar holds the "best art compared to original" among the lot and arguably the best art outright among the 5 (although being close to Swanland style does give a lot of bias points). When I saw Teysa I thought it was Narset and that spellcaster-look does not fit her aristocrat position (even when she when casts spells personally I don't think it'd look like that). Zegana's art look like it could have been from Ixalan (or maybe even Shadowmoor) more than it does from Ravnica. Rakdos in a vacuum is fine, but I liked the original's art so well I feel all other depictions were just plain inferior. Isperia does feel too "stuck to the building", but the vibrancy of the colors compared to the RTR print stands out enough I'm considering getting one as a replacement in EDH.
I don't comment on the values of the decks (and personally don't care since they're nonfoil), but I appreciate that the Guild Kit system generally prioritizes "fun" with less regard to value-penny-pinching and rarity-balance between the decks. They're like the 60-card versions of the Commander decks, arguably done better than the Commander decks themselves, although it's partially biased since Commander by now has "metas" across the worlds to project upon, which inevitably twists expectations.
Some really nice choices for face cards. Not a fan of the Teysa art though. I love her outfit, but her pose and facial expression just scream 'generic spellcaster looking determined.' The original art, whether you like the Orzhov boob window or not, at least communicated that she was primarily a schemer, and that her power lay in her words, not her magic.
Excellently put, mister. I'd wanted to say something along this lines, but I was tired as hell and writing from a phone yesterday...
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Do these 4 faces looks to belong to the same women to you? Not even the haircuts are remotely similar one each other. And about the last one is not the cane the only problem. She actually looks asian, this could be more Narset than Teysa.
The zegana art is trash, but at least feels menacing which is more in line with the card
Isperia is gorgeous
The deck lists are totally uninspired, and why shouldnt they be? These were going to sell anyway
besides you should be used to it now with the various planeswalkers. where jace could be anything from this square jawed superman looking mfer or an emo who cant quite grow out of it.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I was especially looking forward to the alternate versions of the Azorius and Simic leaders, but both are very "eh".
Zegana's "angry" art fits her trample-giving ability I guess, but also makes her look like some generic warrior. The real problem here probably isn't the art though - the execution is fine - but the dissonance between the ability and the card's name. In Magic, I associate the term "Utopia" with flavor themes as peace and defensive orientation (low power/low aggression) as well as ramp. New Zegana has none of that, and the alternate art only exacerbates that separation. "Utopian Speaker" simply doesn't fit this version of her at all. Yes, her original card grew big too, but the carddraw was the more powerful part of her effect and it felt very appropriate for a figure representing a guild of scientists. This version feels like "Zegana, Fearless Adventurer".
I never quite liked the original version of Isperia, Supreme Judge since she looks so abnormally huge in that picture. The new version has a better color palette and I like the composition/background more, but the character itself just looks ... "off model", somehow. I also frankly just don't like Isperia's newer look with the blue fur, purple hair and padded armor/collar. Why did that even become a thing? Sphinx of New Prahv follows the "New Isperia" visual pattern, although I actually like the art on that card. Anyway, Isperia the Inscrutable still remains her best depiction, imo.
Teysa looks like a completely different person. Ruric Thar and Rakdos are fine, but I prefer the original version of both.
And yes, Teysa and Zegana are two more victims of identity politics stealing your identity. You are the powerful lawyer of a crime syndicate? The deposed voice of reason in a medical lab that got sold into an arms race? No, you're angry magic woman or angry fighting woman. Individuality might offend someone.
I was looking forward to getting one of the Teysas with the new frame, but definitely not with that art.
Zegana: I'M A SIMIC MERFOLK WIZARD DUAL-WIELDING SWORDS AND IF YOU GIVE ME ANY CRAP I'LL GROW AN ARM OUT OF MY FOREHEAD AND STRANGLE YOU WITH IT.
Thought that Ruric was Raymond Swanland's work at first but it's still not bad.
Aww, come on man. It's certainly not a monetarily valuable card. Barely ever was before it was reprinted into oblivion.
But how it not evocative of Orzhov? Sure, it's not the 500th Cleric/Spirit/Thrull in robes or gold armor, you have me there, but mechanically-speaking, it's 100% Orzhov. Very grindy and quite useful for Aristocrats-type decks. Card is great.
It's better than it looks if you have even a little mana to support him. He can be quite pesky to deal with. (Not near-impossible, but pesky for sure.)
edit: Wait. That's not Rakdos's belly in the picture? What is it then?
I like that Ruric Thar. If I do put him in the cube, might have to pick that one up. Are these Legends foil-only? Hope not.
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While I agree artist interpretation is a thing; these are not even close (as user129..... illustrates with the pictures)
Planeswalkers hhave changed but are generally the same.
Apparently Teysa only art directive is Black hair, then do what you want.
Wowzers. I hope you stretched before you reached so hard. Weird incel rage aside, I'll stick up for the new Zegana art: she's actually doing something. On almost every single piece of art for a legendary creature, they're doing nothing; they're just standing there, posing. It's lame. At least with the new Zegana, she looks like she's about to kick some ass, as if the situation has compelled her to take up arms herself. It's evocative, and it begs the question of the circumstances leading up to it.
This new Teysa art, though...is just too boring to warrant any comment beyond this sentence.
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Rakdos Guildmageor Pack Rat. This was the perfect time to print some long overdue Pack Rat tokens. Progenitor Mimic is interesting. This means we're going to get a new "copy" token with Progenitor Mimic art. Also, very sad Borborygmos Enraged and Prime Speaker Zegana are missing. I think they're iconic enough (and well loved in EDH) that they will probably get printings with updated borders some time down he line, but looks like I'm going to have to wait.Edit: Rakdos Guildmage is in the Rakdos list. 2/1 goblins. Hooray. Still bummed that they had four chances to include Pack Rat and decided not to include them in any of the four black decks.
Thread | Draft
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Only the 5 cards pictured above. All other cards in the packs are non-foil.
Thread | Draft
The colors, shading and slight diagonal positioning is good enough to fool at a glance (especially on card-size), although on closer observation Ruric does feel too "clean" across the art and arguably not "jagged" enough. Some people dislike his art for the "edginess" of that, but I feel that those are the factors that make him distinct within the pool of "realistic-style" artists, which is often difficult to do (abstract-style by default generally makes it easier to distinctly identify each artist, so while I definitely still support more diversity across the board, I do appreciate on an extra level the ability to distinctly differentiate yourself within the "realistic-style" segment.)
He did mention his work for MTG has more or less winded down (The Duel Decks Elvish Archdruid being the last card chronologically released and set-wise his last presence of new art was in Rivals of Ixalan) but hinted there were still a few more unreleased pieces and I'm still waiting for those.
That being said, I think Ruric Thar holds the "best art compared to original" among the lot and arguably the best art outright among the 5 (although being close to Swanland style does give a lot of bias points). When I saw Teysa I thought it was Narset and that spellcaster-look does not fit her aristocrat position (even when she when casts spells personally I don't think it'd look like that). Zegana's art look like it could have been from Ixalan (or maybe even Shadowmoor) more than it does from Ravnica. Rakdos in a vacuum is fine, but I liked the original's art so well I feel all other depictions were just plain inferior. Isperia does feel too "stuck to the building", but the vibrancy of the colors compared to the RTR print stands out enough I'm considering getting one as a replacement in EDH.
I don't comment on the values of the decks (and personally don't care since they're nonfoil), but I appreciate that the Guild Kit system generally prioritizes "fun" with less regard to value-penny-pinching and rarity-balance between the decks. They're like the 60-card versions of the Commander decks, arguably done better than the Commander decks themselves, although it's partially biased since Commander by now has "metas" across the worlds to project upon, which inevitably twists expectations.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I seem to remember a lot more new art for the previous guild kits.
Boys will be boys! Am I right?
Zegana should have been Prime Speaker Zegana.
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Uh... How is that a "classic Angel pose? o.O
Excellently put, mister. I'd wanted to say something along this lines, but I was tired as hell and writing from a phone yesterday...
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