Of packs that contain only a rare, more than 50% of the time that rare is worth >$5.
That's not counting the packs that contain mythics, which are all >$5, and most substantially greater.
That's not counting value your pack might have in its uncommons.
That's not counting the value in the foil.
Yes, the majority of the time, the pack content value will be less than the buy price. For this set and any set. It's a mathematical certainty. If that wasn't the case the packs would never reach consumers sealed. They'd be opened and sold as singles before reaching the consumer.
But this set does come closer to offsetting its price than most sets do.
Fine leave the rich people and stores to open these packs and give the spoils at reasonable price for us paupers. Would have wanted to draft we powerfull cards but at "premium" price not worth it when is the same as gambling.
Fine leave the rich people and stores to open these packs and give the spoils at reasonable price for us paupers. Would have wanted to draft we powerfull cards but at "premium" price not worth it when is the same as gambling.
Literally not the same as gambling. When I buy a lotto ticket, I get nothing 99% of the time. When I buy a pack of cards, I get something, 100% of the time.
For this set any RARE under 5 bucks for all intents and purposes is chaff.
Currently that means 26 of 53, approx. 50% is chaff. And 15 of those 26 are super-chaff at under 2 bucks apiece. The 26 number will grow as well here in the next few days before release.
That is a lot of feel bad packs. Sure the feel good ones will feel really good. But variance is going to bite a lot of people who buy the 3 pack blister or buy say 3 to 6 packs one at a time. Again, I will sit back and let them take the hit then scoop up singles I desire. I guess some people don't value their hard earned money as myself I suppose.
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STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I could list many of the board games I have that I play with the wife and friends if you like. There are a lot of really good ones.
You could list them, but considering you did not do that the first time and instead talked about something else I'm going to, yet again, assume that you will not.
Again, I'm going to ask, how does you making money from the game have ANYTHING to do with the topic of this set? I was right, you would not stay on topic, but good for you for doing it again, I guess. This may come as a shock to you, but I don't care how you sell cards. I really don't.
Because I am justifying the risk of buying sealed packs due to the fact that it's not costing me much out of pocket. The chance for value is still higher than any other set ever printed upon release, but I generally do not buy sealed packs unless I can 1) buy in bulk to minimize variance risks, 2) buy with profits of previous sales, or 3) get some ridiculous discount/deal making it worthwhile (like when I got a box of Iconic Masters for $105).
This set presents the lowest risk of purchase of any new set ever made, and the EV for a box (without the Topper) is already well above what the selling prices are. The only thing to complain about then is the overall cost, which at that point, it's just showcasing that you don't want to spend money to get value. You want to buy a $4 pack and get a $100 card, which will never happen.
When boosters are $12+ the set gets worse. For all of your talk of "you can find it for way less than MSRP" two bucks less per pack isn't insane. $12+ just means I have to open up even more cash to make this set feel worth it and makes those $1 rares feel even worse than in $10 packs.
This is simple: don't buy packs. But feel free to enjoy the benefits of price drops, which result from other people buying packs and selling those singles.
See, unlike you I'm fully prepared to fail and lose, as it was designed, not wish on four leaf clovers that everything will turn out for the best. A lot more likely you end up with chaff than anything useful.
Actually, I choose to mitigate my risks by both buying in bulk and not spending much money out of pocket, as mentioned above. I could totally open worthless garbage. But chances are very likely I make back at least MSRP, and then some. And having spent much less than that out of pocket, I'm totally OK with that risk.
Of packs that contain only a rare, more than 50% of the time that rare is worth >$5.
50% you say? That's not bad, for someone with decent luck. That 50% might as well be 2% for me.
Now outside of my own thoughts on my own luck that means that if I spend $12 to buy a pack, which that's about the price of a pack, that means 50% of the time I spent $12 to buy a $5 card. Gonna say that still doesn't sound worth it. That would be like me ordering a meal and only getting the fries and going "well there was a chance of that burger not showing up."
That's not counting the packs that contain mythics, which are all >$5, and most substantially greater.
So the things that pop up once every two boxes? Exciting. Also, Lord of Extinction might as well be Comet Storm to me. I never understood why Extinction is so expensive when I could just play Mortivore and get a harder to remove creature or Consuming Aberration. There's really no reason for it to be mythic, it's the Tarmogoyf of giant scalable creatures and Goyf shouldn't even be mythic (along with Snapcaster and Cavern of Souls).
Again, that's under the pretense of actually opening one, which is unlikely. Hoping for the best doesn't get you anywhere.
That's not counting value your pack might have in its uncommons.
Now see, this is a good point, but again you have to open them and uncommons, especially the more popular ones, can be just as hard to open as some rares. I've opened multiple boxes of some sets in the past and still only got three copies of the good uncommon. Again, I'm going to stick with luck and how I'm not guaranteed a thing.
Again, again, always expect the worst.
That's not counting the value in the foil.
Which is highly likely to be a common where that foil is going to be about 20 cents more expensive then the regular version, so about 25 cents total. I don't know about you, but foils are nice, but they're not needed to play the game. They're the equivalent of finding a shiny dime on the floor instead of a lightly dented one.
Yes, the majority of the time, the pack content value will be less than the buy price. For this set and any set. It's a mathematical certainty. If that wasn't the case the packs would never reach consumers sealed. They'd be opened and sold as singles before reaching the consumer.
Once again when I open up that $1 rare in a Core Set for $4 I don't mind, but when I open that same rare in a Masters set and spend $12+ doesn't make feel better. The mathematical certainty is far higher in the $14 pack for me to get shafted than the $4 one. I'm either down $3 or down $10+. I wonder which one I will enjoy more? We should get Scooby Doo to figure out this mystery.
But this set does come closer to offsetting its price than most sets do.
The request was for you to list hobbies not individual games and you only listed two hobbies total, board games and D&D, and let me tell you D&D isn't exactly cheap. Unless you want to download every single book it gets expensive between figures, books (which range between $20-$50), possible technology added to it like screens for maps and other things, and even creating your own physical dungeons and maps like some people do. Additionally, D&D isn't something you can spontaneously do, like a game of Monopoly, as you need a group to actually have the time to get together, which is far harder than it really should be.
Like I said I am going to laugh as it was about hobbies and you listed a grand total of two and one of them is not cheap.
Because I am justifying the risk of buying sealed packs due to the fact that it's not costing me much out of pocket.
But it has nothing to do with anything. Not with the thread, nor with anything that was being discussed. You literally just chucked out information about how amazing you are, for no reason.
You want to buy a $4 pack and get a $100 card, which will never happen.
I-I do? I'm sorry, I didn't know, but it's a good thing you were here to tell me something that's not true and put words in my mouth. I'm a fatass, but I don't need those words. Kudos though.
This is simple: don't buy packs. But feel free to enjoy the benefits of price drops, which result from other people buying packs and selling those singles.
But you said it yourself, I shouldn't have a hobby because I'm poor. I don't deserve it.
Actually, I choose to mitigate my risks by both buying in bulk and not spending much money out of pocket, as mentioned above. I could totally open worthless garbage. But chances are very likely I make back at least MSRP, and then some. And having spent much less than that out of pocket, I'm totally OK with that risk.
Did you just throw out how rich you are again? "I buy in bulk because I have money and deserve to have a hobby." I have at no point asked what your financial situation is and yet you continue to do so like it's some context that I and anyone else needs. Three times in this very post you did it and I can't understand why.
As I said earlier, I could ask if you would stop, but I doubt you will.
Actually, I choose to mitigate my risks by both buying in bulk and not spending much money out of pocket, as mentioned above. I could totally open worthless garbage. But chances are very likely I make back at least MSRP, and then some. And having spent much less than that out of pocket, I'm totally OK with that risk.
*Edited to include links for games.
During our early years of mtg, we save money to buy packs.. but our older cousin who already has a job buys booster boxes. I guess buying in bulk gives a higher chance of getting good things, as his decks often had cards I could only dream about at that time. Fast forward to the future, I now already have a job.. but still not enough extra funds to buy boxes.. so just going to take chance in the lottery of buying 1 or 2 booster packs. ^__^
"Buying UMA boxes" =/= "having a hobby". If you don't want to or can't buy UMA boxes, you're priced out of buying UMA boxes, that's all. Your decision or inability to buy those boxes doesn't make you unable to play Magic.
"Buying UMA boxes" =/= "having a hobby". If you don't want to or can't buy UMA boxes, you're priced out of buying UMA boxes, that's all. Your decision or inability to buy those boxes doesn't make you unable to play Magic.
Yes and no. Can I show up to an SCG Open or Grand Prix event with photocopied/printed proxies of powerful cards so I can compete at a high level?
Like a lot of other hobbies and activities it is most definitely pay to play when you take it past the home/kitchen table level. I have accepted that, its part of the game. I just don't want to see it get WORSE and skew more towards those who can afford to keep up and those who can't.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
"Buying UMA boxes" =/= "having a hobby". If you don't want to or can't buy UMA boxes, you're priced out of buying UMA boxes, that's all. Your decision or inability to buy those boxes doesn't make you unable to play Magic.
Yes and no. Can I show up to an SCG Open or Grand Prix event with photocopied/printed proxies of powerful cards so I can compete at a high level?
Like a lot of other hobbies and activities it is most definitely pay to play when you take it past the home/kitchen table level. I have accepted that, its part of the game. I just don't want to see it get WORSE and skew more towards those who can afford to keep up and those who can't.
In my mental model, the concepts of "hobby" and "compete at a high level" don't really overlap.
They're not literally purely exclusive... but if someone tells me "my hobby is swimming" I would be pretty surprised if they then tell me they're an Olympic athlete. Or even a national competitor.
At the same time, I certainly understand not wanting things to skew [even more] towards those who can afford things. Setting hobbies vs. non-hobbies aside, that's a reasonable goal in general for pretty much everything in society. But looking in that context, the question isn't "are UMA boxes good EV?", it's "will the UMA printing raise or lower the [overall/median/average/minimum] cost to play Magic?".
There is a hypothetical where all or most UMA boxes are bad EV actual value, and a bunch of people buy them and don't get "their money's worth", but the increase in supply of those singles generally makes deck construction slightly more affordable for everyone else. Essentially, the "whales" able to justify "throwing away money" on "bad" UMA would be subsidizing the game for others who might not have as much disposable income. Will that be the case in reality? No idea. But it's an interesting hypothetical, I think.
Did you just throw out how rich you are again? "I buy in bulk because I have money and deserve to have a hobby." I have at no point asked what your financial situation is and yet you continue to do so like it's some context that I and anyone else needs. Three times in this very post you did it and I can't understand why.
I'm not rich by any means. I'm just an adult in my mid 30s, married, with a decent household income. If I were in middle school, high school, or even college, I would would think these prices were absurd. Not because I disregarded the value contained, but because the cost for a frivolous hobby is much more difficult to justify at those ages (either spending parents' money or lacking stable income). That's the only issue I see that people have with UMA. In every measurable regard, UMA is the best Masters set ever printed.
As I said earlier, I could ask if you would stop, but I doubt you will.
Sounds more like you want to pick a fight than anything else.
The request was for you to list hobbies not individual games
Board games are a form of hobby that is significantly cheaper than Magic. I specifically said board games, and offered to list some options, if you would like. You insultingly said "You could, but you won't." Then I did, and you change your story. Any of those games listed would provide as much (or more) entertainment than purchasing any deck in pretty much any format, and for 1/10 the cost. This alone is worth muting you moving forward. The childish complaints and totally unjustified or supported arguments make it an easy choice. Have a great day, and feel free to continue being mad about the price of the best Master's set ever printed.
In my mental model, the concepts of "hobby" and "compete at a high level" don't really overlap.
They most certainly can. A marksman with a natural gift is going to be at a disadvantage at their hobby using a cheap firearm over a honed precise one. A skilled driver is going to get clobbered trying to drive their hand-me-down Toyota Camry up against high priced race machines. There are plenty of other examples as well. Now yes I do understand your point, they they usually don't.
At the same time, I certainly understand not wanting things to skew [even more] towards those who can afford things. Setting hobbies vs. non-hobbies aside, that's a reasonable goal in general for pretty much everything in society.
Agreed totally. I don't want to see this game go that direction.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Forgive me for not wanting to read ten pages of what is likely a bunch of bickering to see if this question had been answered or not but, have they shown the tokens they’re using yet? I assume they’re a mixture of old ones but it would be neat to get a fairy that matched the new Bitterblossom art.
I'm not rich by any means. I'm just an adult in my mid 30s, married, with a decent household income.
And you did it again.
That's the only issue I see that people have with UMA. In every measurable regard, UMA is the best Masters set ever printed.
So your entire issue is that people have a different opinion? Is that it? Really?
Sounds more like you want to pick a fight than anything else.
No, I want you to stop posting your financial situation in a topic and discussion that has nothing to do with it. You keep throwing it out there like it explains something when it doesn't. It adds nothing to the conversation. I have not once talked about my financial situation and you've felt it necessary to do so about a dozen times. I just want to know if you'll stop, but since you started the post with it I'm going to continue to doubt it.
Board games are a form of hobby that is significantly cheaper than Magic. I specifically said board games, and offered to list some options, if you would like. You insultingly said "You could, but you won't." Then I did, and you change your story. Any of those games listed would provide as much (or more) entertainment than purchasing any deck in pretty much any format, and for 1/10 the cost. This alone is worth muting you moving forward. The childish complaints and totally unjustified or supported arguments make it an easy choice. Have a great day, and feel free to continue being mad about the price of the best Master's set ever printed.
You listed two total hobbies, one of which isn't cheap. I offered you a chance to prove your "other hobbies are cheap" and you couldn't do so while talking about how much money you have. You only demonstrated that because you have money you find this set to be amazing, but completely ignored the price tag that WotC set forth and that it is currently. You described this as super cheap, but it's actually still more expensive than past Masters sets.
Like I said many pages ago do have fun buying this set and paying more to get get $2 worth of cards. You make your own fun. I hope you do stop acting smug though, talking about how rich you are isn't very attractive.
I'm not rich by any means. I'm just an adult in my mid 30s, married, with a decent household income.
And you did it again.
That's the only issue I see that people have with UMA. In every measurable regard, UMA is the best Masters set ever printed.
So your entire issue is that people have a different opinion? Is that it? Really?
Sounds more like you want to pick a fight than anything else.
No, I want you to stop posting your financial situation in a topic and discussion that has nothing to do with it. You keep throwing it out there like it explains something when it doesn't. It adds nothing to the conversation. I have not once talked about my financial situation and you've felt it necessary to do so about a dozen times. I just want to know if you'll stop, but since you started the post with it I'm going to continue to doubt it.
Board games are a form of hobby that is significantly cheaper than Magic. I specifically said board games, and offered to list some options, if you would like. You insultingly said "You could, but you won't." Then I did, and you change your story. Any of those games listed would provide as much (or more) entertainment than purchasing any deck in pretty much any format, and for 1/10 the cost. This alone is worth muting you moving forward. The childish complaints and totally unjustified or supported arguments make it an easy choice. Have a great day, and feel free to continue being mad about the price of the best Master's set ever printed.
You listed two total hobbies, one of which isn't cheap. I offered you a chance to prove your "other hobbies are cheap" and you couldn't do so while talking about how much money you have. You only demonstrated that because you have money you find this set to be amazing, but completely ignored the price tag that WotC set forth and that it is currently. You described this as super cheap, but it's actually still more expensive than past Masters sets.
Like I said many pages ago do have fun buying this set and paying more to get get $2 worth of cards. You make your own fun. I hope you do stop acting smug though, talking about how rich you are isn't very attractive.
Wow, take a chill pill. At least he stayed on topic, this sounds more like a PM conversation to me.
I mean, you call him out for “doing it again”, yet you enticed him to do so. You call him smug, then you call him “rich” in a derogatory tone. Yeah, that would warrant a retort.
And this takes the cake here
So your entire issue is that people have a different opinion
. Financially, I’m in the same boat. So, does that make me a rich, smug A-Hole who doesn’t value others opinions? Granted, I don’t consider calling things “garbage” an opinion anyways, it’s more like empty commentary.
Maybe step away from the keyboard for a few hours. I think you’ve made your point, you don’t like the set. Cool story bro.
I mean, you call him out for “doing it again”, yet you enticed him to do so. You call him smug, then you call him “rich” in a derogatory tone. Yeah, that would warrant a retort.
Not once did any of what I say warrant the start of talking about one's own finances. Try again.
So, does that make me a rich, smug A-Hole who doesn’t value others opinions?
It does if you tell me I'm not allowed to have a hobby because I'm too poor while at the same time talking about how you make lots of money.
I mean, you call him out for “doing it again”, yet you enticed him to do so. You call him smug, then you call him “rich” in a derogatory tone. Yeah, that would warrant a retort.
Not once did any of what I say warrant the start of talking about one's own finances. Try again.
So, does that make me a rich, smug A-Hole who doesn’t value others opinions?
It does if you tell me I'm not allowed to have a hobby because I'm too poor while at the same time talking about how you make lots of money.
Except you continue to harp on the set for “not being worth it”, or that you’d buy at normal booster prices. That would lead one to assume you cannot afford to buy. You have nobody to blame but yourself in that regard.
As for the last bit, that’s your biggest misconception right there. You think having a hobbby means you should have access to everything that hobby has to offer. Wrong. Like I mentioned earlier, I have a ‘78 trans am that I like to work on, and one day restore. There are tons of things that I cannot afford for that project, I just get what I can, when I can. What I don’t do, is go on to GM forums and blast them for not making my hobby affordable.
You can still play magic without buying this set, or owning these cards. No, that’s not your complaint. You want to compete, and that requires an investment. Time, money, or both. If you don’t want to do that, you have nothing to complain about.
A bit off topic but what do most in this thread want to see? The hobby become more affordable or less affordable?
I'm personally for more affordable. $14 MSRP packs don't get us there. Sure certain high end staples will drop in price for a year or two and then just bounce back right where they left off as WotC refuses to reprint them on a regular (read yearly) basis. Trickle-down Magic where the able can pay to play and the rest have to feed off the crumbs doesn't seem like a healthy model if you ask me. Sounds like a recipe for a shrinking older more well off player base and a turn of the younger player away and into more digital games and eventual paper card death.
It is a conversation that needs to be had in my estimation. This thread probably isn't the right place but it needs to take place somewhere.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
A bit off topic but what do most in this thread want to see? The hobby become more affordable or less affordable?
I'm personally for more affordable. $14 MSRP packs don't get us there. Sure certain high end staples will drop in price for a year or two and then just bounce back right where they left off as WotC refuses to reprint them on a regular (read yearly) basis. Trickle-down Magic where the able can pay to play and the rest have to feed off the crumbs doesn't seem like a healthy model if you ask me. Sounds like a recipe for a shrinking older more well off player base and a turn of the younger player away and into more digital games and eventual paper card death.
It is a conversation that needs to be had in my estimation. This thread probably isn't the right place but it needs to take place somewhere.
It is affordable, though. You keep mixing hobby and competing, and they just aren’t the same thing. This isn’t some mutually exclusive problem to MTG, this is how all “hobbies” work. They require an investment of sorts, time, money, or both. As a “newer”, or more recent player, you can only start investing time from the minute you make MtG your hobby of choice, so your limited to whatever has been released from that day going forward. Or, you can invest money, which is self explantory(go out, buy what you need at whatever the market price is).
What you want is those that have invested both time and money to sacrifice all of that so that you can enjoy this game the same way they do. Now, talk about unfair.
A bit off topic but what do most in this thread want to see? The hobby become more affordable or less affordable?
I'm personally for more affordable. $14 MSRP packs don't get us there.
Really? Because nearly every staple card reprinted in this "unobtainably expensive set" has considerably dropped in price. Which is good for all the complainers who want the benefits of price drops without the ugly part of buying and opening packs. Win-win, never get your hands dirty.
The cards in the set become more affordable because of being printed in this set. People are buying and opening packs because the EV contained in the packs is higher than the price of a pack on average.
You're complaining about... what? That the cost is a little higher? Even though you're not paying it? You're not buying packs for that much? But you still get all the benefits of price reduction of every card included? Sounds like a strange stance to have.
What you want is those that have invested both time and money to sacrifice all of that so that you can enjoy this game the same way they do. Now, talk about unfair.
So, at which price point do you start to rip your cards or sell your collection? Or is a human sacrifice? Chickens?
Cards are cheaper! Sacrifices! Riots! We won't stand for this!
What you want is those that have invested both time and money to sacrifice all of that so that you can enjoy this game the same way they do. Now, talk about unfair.
I'd be willing to bet that I have a lot more money "invested" in this game than 90% of the playership out there. If it would crash to 90% of current values tomorrow I'd be in for as big as loss as most, if not more. The thing is I don't really care if it did. I've gone into it with that mindset. Its not an investment or fallback for me its a hobby (and a competitive one at times). And its a hobby I'd like to see become less expensive.
Don't use sacrifice around a hobby as well. It cheapens the word to those in this world who have truly sacrificed for their fellow man. I know quite a few people who have truly sacrificed for others and I am so grateful they have.
Really? Because nearly every staple card reprinted in this "unobtainably expensive set" has considerably dropped in price.
Sure they have dropped maybe 20 to 25%. Thank goodness someone can pay 280 bucks for a set of Goyf instead of 360 a while back. These will also be short-lived dips as well. In a year to 18 months prices will have returned to previous levels for most of the staple (power) cards. I have a lot of money parked in cardboard as well. I have skin in the game. Its not my livlihood though, I'm blessed to be able to pursue it at this time. I'd like to see it open to more people as well and if that means I take a huge hit, so be it.
And noone has still answered my question. Do you want to see the hobby become more or less expensive. The silence speaks volumes and reeks of elitism.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Of packs that contain only a rare, more than 50% of the time that rare is worth >$5.
That's not counting the packs that contain mythics, which are all >$5, and most substantially greater.
That's not counting value your pack might have in its uncommons.
That's not counting the value in the foil.
Yes, the majority of the time, the pack content value will be less than the buy price. For this set and any set. It's a mathematical certainty. If that wasn't the case the packs would never reach consumers sealed. They'd be opened and sold as singles before reaching the consumer.
But this set does come closer to offsetting its price than most sets do.
Literally not the same as gambling. When I buy a lotto ticket, I get nothing 99% of the time. When I buy a pack of cards, I get something, 100% of the time.
Spirits
For this set any RARE under 5 bucks for all intents and purposes is chaff.
Currently that means 26 of 53, approx. 50% is chaff. And 15 of those 26 are super-chaff at under 2 bucks apiece. The 26 number will grow as well here in the next few days before release.
That is a lot of feel bad packs. Sure the feel good ones will feel really good. But variance is going to bite a lot of people who buy the 3 pack blister or buy say 3 to 6 packs one at a time. Again, I will sit back and let them take the hit then scoop up singles I desire. I guess some people don't value their hard earned money as myself I suppose.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Here are some that we have and enjoy: One Deck Dungeon, Tiny Epic Zombies (Tiny Epic has multiple titles), Exploding Kittens, Unstable Unicorns, Settlers of Catan (GoT edition), Magic: Arena of the Planeswalkers, D&D The Board Game (Tomb of Annihilation and Castle Ravenloft), D&D itself (I am currently a DM for one campaign and a player for another, wife is a player in both), Ticket to Ride, Pandemic, Gloomhaven (if your budget is up for it), and a handful of kickstarter games I'm currently waiting on: Namely Resident Evil 2 board game, Deck Box Dungeon (similar to One Deck Dungeon, but with more cards, less dice), Trogdor! The Game (burninating the countryside), and Mythic Battles: Pantheon (a bit expensive, but wife loves ancient mythology).
Because I am justifying the risk of buying sealed packs due to the fact that it's not costing me much out of pocket. The chance for value is still higher than any other set ever printed upon release, but I generally do not buy sealed packs unless I can 1) buy in bulk to minimize variance risks, 2) buy with profits of previous sales, or 3) get some ridiculous discount/deal making it worthwhile (like when I got a box of Iconic Masters for $105).
This set presents the lowest risk of purchase of any new set ever made, and the EV for a box (without the Topper) is already well above what the selling prices are. The only thing to complain about then is the overall cost, which at that point, it's just showcasing that you don't want to spend money to get value. You want to buy a $4 pack and get a $100 card, which will never happen.
This is simple: don't buy packs. But feel free to enjoy the benefits of price drops, which result from other people buying packs and selling those singles.
Actually, I choose to mitigate my risks by both buying in bulk and not spending much money out of pocket, as mentioned above. I could totally open worthless garbage. But chances are very likely I make back at least MSRP, and then some. And having spent much less than that out of pocket, I'm totally OK with that risk.
*Edited to include links for games.
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50% you say? That's not bad, for someone with decent luck. That 50% might as well be 2% for me.
Now outside of my own thoughts on my own luck that means that if I spend $12 to buy a pack, which that's about the price of a pack, that means 50% of the time I spent $12 to buy a $5 card. Gonna say that still doesn't sound worth it. That would be like me ordering a meal and only getting the fries and going "well there was a chance of that burger not showing up."
So the things that pop up once every two boxes? Exciting. Also, Lord of Extinction might as well be Comet Storm to me. I never understood why Extinction is so expensive when I could just play Mortivore and get a harder to remove creature or Consuming Aberration. There's really no reason for it to be mythic, it's the Tarmogoyf of giant scalable creatures and Goyf shouldn't even be mythic (along with Snapcaster and Cavern of Souls).
Again, that's under the pretense of actually opening one, which is unlikely. Hoping for the best doesn't get you anywhere.
Now see, this is a good point, but again you have to open them and uncommons, especially the more popular ones, can be just as hard to open as some rares. I've opened multiple boxes of some sets in the past and still only got three copies of the good uncommon. Again, I'm going to stick with luck and how I'm not guaranteed a thing.
Again, again, always expect the worst.
Which is highly likely to be a common where that foil is going to be about 20 cents more expensive then the regular version, so about 25 cents total. I don't know about you, but foils are nice, but they're not needed to play the game. They're the equivalent of finding a shiny dime on the floor instead of a lightly dented one.
Once again when I open up that $1 rare in a Core Set for $4 I don't mind, but when I open that same rare in a Masters set and spend $12+ doesn't make feel better. The mathematical certainty is far higher in the $14 pack for me to get shafted than the $4 one. I'm either down $3 or down $10+. I wonder which one I will enjoy more? We should get Scooby Doo to figure out this mystery.
If you can find it for $10.
The request was for you to list hobbies not individual games and you only listed two hobbies total, board games and D&D, and let me tell you D&D isn't exactly cheap. Unless you want to download every single book it gets expensive between figures, books (which range between $20-$50), possible technology added to it like screens for maps and other things, and even creating your own physical dungeons and maps like some people do. Additionally, D&D isn't something you can spontaneously do, like a game of Monopoly, as you need a group to actually have the time to get together, which is far harder than it really should be.
Like I said I am going to laugh as it was about hobbies and you listed a grand total of two and one of them is not cheap.
But it has nothing to do with anything. Not with the thread, nor with anything that was being discussed. You literally just chucked out information about how amazing you are, for no reason.
I-I do? I'm sorry, I didn't know, but it's a good thing you were here to tell me something that's not true and put words in my mouth. I'm a fatass, but I don't need those words. Kudos though.
But you said it yourself, I shouldn't have a hobby because I'm poor. I don't deserve it.
Did you just throw out how rich you are again? "I buy in bulk because I have money and deserve to have a hobby." I have at no point asked what your financial situation is and yet you continue to do so like it's some context that I and anyone else needs. Three times in this very post you did it and I can't understand why.
As I said earlier, I could ask if you would stop, but I doubt you will.
During our early years of mtg, we save money to buy packs.. but our older cousin who already has a job buys booster boxes. I guess buying in bulk gives a higher chance of getting good things, as his decks often had cards I could only dream about at that time. Fast forward to the future, I now already have a job.. but still not enough extra funds to buy boxes.. so just going to take chance in the lottery of buying 1 or 2 booster packs. ^__^
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Yes and no. Can I show up to an SCG Open or Grand Prix event with photocopied/printed proxies of powerful cards so I can compete at a high level?
Like a lot of other hobbies and activities it is most definitely pay to play when you take it past the home/kitchen table level. I have accepted that, its part of the game. I just don't want to see it get WORSE and skew more towards those who can afford to keep up and those who can't.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
They're not literally purely exclusive... but if someone tells me "my hobby is swimming" I would be pretty surprised if they then tell me they're an Olympic athlete. Or even a national competitor.
At the same time, I certainly understand not wanting things to skew [even more] towards those who can afford things. Setting hobbies vs. non-hobbies aside, that's a reasonable goal in general for pretty much everything in society. But looking in that context, the question isn't "are UMA boxes good EV?", it's "will the UMA printing raise or lower the [overall/median/average/minimum] cost to play Magic?".
There is a hypothetical where all or most UMA boxes are bad
EVactual value, and a bunch of people buy them and don't get "their money's worth", but the increase in supply of those singles generally makes deck construction slightly more affordable for everyone else. Essentially, the "whales" able to justify "throwing away money" on "bad" UMA would be subsidizing the game for others who might not have as much disposable income. Will that be the case in reality? No idea. But it's an interesting hypothetical, I think.Edit: Corrected terminology.
I'm not rich by any means. I'm just an adult in my mid 30s, married, with a decent household income. If I were in middle school, high school, or even college, I would would think these prices were absurd. Not because I disregarded the value contained, but because the cost for a frivolous hobby is much more difficult to justify at those ages (either spending parents' money or lacking stable income). That's the only issue I see that people have with UMA. In every measurable regard, UMA is the best Masters set ever printed.
Sounds more like you want to pick a fight than anything else.
Edit:
Board games are a form of hobby that is significantly cheaper than Magic. I specifically said board games, and offered to list some options, if you would like. You insultingly said "You could, but you won't." Then I did, and you change your story. Any of those games listed would provide as much (or more) entertainment than purchasing any deck in pretty much any format, and for 1/10 the cost. This alone is worth muting you moving forward. The childish complaints and totally unjustified or supported arguments make it an easy choice. Have a great day, and feel free to continue being mad about the price of the best Master's set ever printed.
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Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
They most certainly can. A marksman with a natural gift is going to be at a disadvantage at their hobby using a cheap firearm over a honed precise one. A skilled driver is going to get clobbered trying to drive their hand-me-down Toyota Camry up against high priced race machines. There are plenty of other examples as well. Now yes I do understand your point, they they usually don't.
Agreed totally. I don't want to see this game go that direction.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Forgive me for not wanting to read ten pages of what is likely a bunch of bickering to see if this question had been answered or not but, have they shown the tokens they’re using yet? I assume they’re a mixture of old ones but it would be neat to get a fairy that matched the new Bitterblossom art.
And you did it again.
So your entire issue is that people have a different opinion? Is that it? Really?
No, I want you to stop posting your financial situation in a topic and discussion that has nothing to do with it. You keep throwing it out there like it explains something when it doesn't. It adds nothing to the conversation. I have not once talked about my financial situation and you've felt it necessary to do so about a dozen times. I just want to know if you'll stop, but since you started the post with it I'm going to continue to doubt it.
Edit:
You listed two total hobbies, one of which isn't cheap. I offered you a chance to prove your "other hobbies are cheap" and you couldn't do so while talking about how much money you have. You only demonstrated that because you have money you find this set to be amazing, but completely ignored the price tag that WotC set forth and that it is currently. You described this as super cheap, but it's actually still more expensive than past Masters sets.
Like I said many pages ago do have fun buying this set and paying more to get get $2 worth of cards. You make your own fun. I hope you do stop acting smug though, talking about how rich you are isn't very attractive.
Wow, take a chill pill. At least he stayed on topic, this sounds more like a PM conversation to me.
I mean, you call him out for “doing it again”, yet you enticed him to do so. You call him smug, then you call him “rich” in a derogatory tone. Yeah, that would warrant a retort.
And this takes the cake here . Financially, I’m in the same boat. So, does that make me a rich, smug A-Hole who doesn’t value others opinions? Granted, I don’t consider calling things “garbage” an opinion anyways, it’s more like empty commentary.
Maybe step away from the keyboard for a few hours. I think you’ve made your point, you don’t like the set. Cool story bro.
Not once did any of what I say warrant the start of talking about one's own finances. Try again.
It does if you tell me I'm not allowed to have a hobby because I'm too poor while at the same time talking about how you make lots of money.
Except you continue to harp on the set for “not being worth it”, or that you’d buy at normal booster prices. That would lead one to assume you cannot afford to buy. You have nobody to blame but yourself in that regard.
As for the last bit, that’s your biggest misconception right there. You think having a hobbby means you should have access to everything that hobby has to offer. Wrong. Like I mentioned earlier, I have a ‘78 trans am that I like to work on, and one day restore. There are tons of things that I cannot afford for that project, I just get what I can, when I can. What I don’t do, is go on to GM forums and blast them for not making my hobby affordable.
You can still play magic without buying this set, or owning these cards. No, that’s not your complaint. You want to compete, and that requires an investment. Time, money, or both. If you don’t want to do that, you have nothing to complain about.
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I don’t disagree. But, they all can also be hobbies that are more expensive than MTG. You get out of it what you put into it.
I'm personally for more affordable. $14 MSRP packs don't get us there. Sure certain high end staples will drop in price for a year or two and then just bounce back right where they left off as WotC refuses to reprint them on a regular (read yearly) basis. Trickle-down Magic where the able can pay to play and the rest have to feed off the crumbs doesn't seem like a healthy model if you ask me. Sounds like a recipe for a shrinking older more well off player base and a turn of the younger player away and into more digital games and eventual paper card death.
It is a conversation that needs to be had in my estimation. This thread probably isn't the right place but it needs to take place somewhere.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
It is affordable, though. You keep mixing hobby and competing, and they just aren’t the same thing. This isn’t some mutually exclusive problem to MTG, this is how all “hobbies” work. They require an investment of sorts, time, money, or both. As a “newer”, or more recent player, you can only start investing time from the minute you make MtG your hobby of choice, so your limited to whatever has been released from that day going forward. Or, you can invest money, which is self explantory(go out, buy what you need at whatever the market price is).
What you want is those that have invested both time and money to sacrifice all of that so that you can enjoy this game the same way they do. Now, talk about unfair.
Really? Because nearly every staple card reprinted in this "unobtainably expensive set" has considerably dropped in price. Which is good for all the complainers who want the benefits of price drops without the ugly part of buying and opening packs. Win-win, never get your hands dirty.
The cards in the set become more affordable because of being printed in this set. People are buying and opening packs because the EV contained in the packs is higher than the price of a pack on average.
You're complaining about... what? That the cost is a little higher? Even though you're not paying it? You're not buying packs for that much? But you still get all the benefits of price reduction of every card included? Sounds like a strange stance to have.
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Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
So, at which price point do you start to rip your cards or sell your collection? Or is a human sacrifice? Chickens?
Cards are cheaper! Sacrifices! Riots! We won't stand for this!
I'd be willing to bet that I have a lot more money "invested" in this game than 90% of the playership out there. If it would crash to 90% of current values tomorrow I'd be in for as big as loss as most, if not more. The thing is I don't really care if it did. I've gone into it with that mindset. Its not an investment or fallback for me its a hobby (and a competitive one at times). And its a hobby I'd like to see become less expensive.
Don't use sacrifice around a hobby as well. It cheapens the word to those in this world who have truly sacrificed for their fellow man. I know quite a few people who have truly sacrificed for others and I am so grateful they have.
Sure they have dropped maybe 20 to 25%. Thank goodness someone can pay 280 bucks for a set of Goyf instead of 360 a while back. These will also be short-lived dips as well. In a year to 18 months prices will have returned to previous levels for most of the staple (power) cards. I have a lot of money parked in cardboard as well. I have skin in the game. Its not my livlihood though, I'm blessed to be able to pursue it at this time. I'd like to see it open to more people as well and if that means I take a huge hit, so be it.
And noone has still answered my question. Do you want to see the hobby become more or less expensive. The silence speaks volumes and reeks of elitism.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate