I am actually super excited for this set. I get why people are upset. But I find myself moving more and more towards just playing Casual Commander anyways. So being able to pick up a few neat singles with new art - is appealing to me. Sure, they are not cheap singles, but I don't mind. Anyone who pimps decks out, are aware they are spending a lot anyways.
What is most unfortunate is the price tag preventing crazy mass opening. Which is slightly unfortunate.
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STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
Well I can tell you I’m 95% sure all is dust will be a reprint there’s 1-3 cards before original emrakul
Unfortunately you cannot guarantee anything unless you've seen the set list.
No, can’t guarantee anything, but consider that the most recently-standard card in the box topper 40 was Tasigur ... leads me to believe that the set range they are choosing to draw on for the contents of this set does not extend to as recent as BFZ. And if that’s the case ... that quite likely makes 1–2-3 All Is Dust, Artisan of Kozilek, and Eldrazi Conscription.
Well, to be fair on UMA the set does look like it might be pretty interesting to play sealed. They included Undying in the same set with Persist. Going to let that one sink in when we also have Fulminator Mage.
I mean, the price per booster box is outrageous on the MSRP value, but as long as there are loose packs and the draft packs I think it will get opened and sold. The big problem is that no one had any idea that this was coming, including the stores and possibly the distributors. I mean, this is insane because those guys have to get their orders in usually six to eight weeks ahead before spoilers start. They got barely any time to react and get orders in, let alone pre-orders.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Welp, just got my apology letter, and my - you guessed it! - special, foil, not-quite-borderless Lavaclaw Reaches! Earlier today I was joking with my wife about how Wizards was sending out apology cards for folks, and said that some poor saps were ending up with promo Lavaclaw Reaches while others got Celestial Colonnades. Guess there is such a thing as karmic justice after all. On the plus side, the art does pop pretty nicely.
Edit: Actually, though, is it really just Lavaclaw Reaches, Balefire Dragon, and Lord of Extinction that see virtually no play anywhere out of 40 promos? 3/40 is pretty bad luck, I woulda been happy with pretty much any of the other 37. Ah well, free is free. Maybe it's time to go grab a lottery ticket, though, I think this worked through my bad juju for a while.
EditEdit: Oh god, I just actually looked at the prices and somehow the Dragon and Lord are still over 10 bucks each. Is Lavaclaw the only sub-five dollar card in the Toppers??
EditEditEdit: Ok so after having actually looked through the lowest prices for each of the 40 non-promo versions of the cards, Stirring Wildwood and Tasigur, the Golden Fang are each worth less than Lavaclaw, but they both go into at least 1 deck that I know of, unlike the Reaches. I'll just be here in the corner, gnawing on my salt-pile for a while, if anyone needs me.
Tasigur’s nonfoil is cheap but it’s foil has a nice premium because people like those commanders with bling. I expect that’ll play even moreso for this special frame edition - it’ll have enough demand among people who want the blingiest version for their commander that it won’t be the weak sister in this topper list.
Just wanted to share this video about how the topper packs are searchable. Uploaded by a guy who was able to figure out how to do it. Caution for those buying overpriced topper packs on Ebay and the like.
Just wanted to share this video about how the topper packs are searchable. Uploaded by a guy who was able to figure out how to do it. Caution for those buying overpriced topper packs on Ebay and the like.
Just wanted to share this video about how the topper packs are searchable. Uploaded by a guy who was able to figure out how to do it. Caution for those buying overpriced topper packs on Ebay and the like.
Just wanted to share this video about how the topper packs are searchable. Uploaded by a guy who was able to figure out how to do it. Caution for those buying overpriced topper packs on Ebay and the like.
I was thinking along the same lines with a very bright flashlight they could be searched. I also wonder about the numbers on the pack back itself. I've asked for someone to post up a picture of the pack backs but no one has. They could have solved this by sandwiching the card between two advertising cards or plain cardboard.
Buyers need to stay away from buying these secondhand unopened, period.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Just wanted to share this video about how the topper packs are searchable. Uploaded by a guy who was able to figure out how to do it. Caution for those buying overpriced topper packs on Ebay and the like.
Wizards f***ed up again. This being so easily avoidable makes it even more frustrating. Seriously, how can this be an issue with a company having 25 years experience?
On Ultimate Masters itself: It's basically just another Masters Set, with better things in it at a higher price. While they can't acknowledge the Secondary Market vocally (basically via any form of communication), by now anyone deluding themselves that either they can't see it or they see it and want to "help" it probably lost faith already - they have always observed the Secondary Market and planned about how they could profit about it. Bluntly put, the polar opposite of what players want - instead of using the primary market source to suppress the Secondary Market, they're using the Secondary Market to "elevate" the Primary Product.
There will be jank in the remaining unrevealed cards (if Lavaclaw Reaches didn't convince you already) like any Masters Set. Anyone dreaming of a "Top 260+ Cards in Secondary Market Prices Masters" is just that - dreaming. If they really did that the MSRP would be even higher than what is presented here - I won't be surprised if the MSRP was decided behind-the-scenes by some mean/median calculated value of the Secondary Market Prices (which they obviously can't and won't even if they could announce it). In fact, I suspect that's how cards were selected for previous Masters Sets (not counting MM1), that the cards' Secondary Market Value after their mean/median calculated value cannot exceed the set MSRP by too much, hence either we get a highroll-lottery like MM2, or just plain flat boring typical value cards (that become less-than-value post-release).
I'm aware I sound cynical and salty, but at the same time as consumers we will probably never be given the insight of the actual decision processes and this being the last Masters Set (for "some time" at least), I felt I could establish how I think the system worked when it was active, solely based on observation on how basically all the Masters Sets worked (save MM1 as an anomaly for being the first try, it's basically the Alpha/Beta of the Masters Series) and as cynical as it seems, I'm also pretty sad how I came to this cynical result myself as well.
On the Box Toppers: Actually one of the better ideas they had. It's basically Buy-a-Box Promos spliced onto Masterpieces. Best part it's put directly into the sealed boxes, so basically it's "a guaranteed Buy-a-Box Masterpiece" system that "cannot be tampered with" (at least not blatantly, I mean if someone opened and resealed the thing meticulously it could potentially be done with every booster pack in the box as well, so I'll disregard the potential of the extreme cases here). People didn't like BABs being underwhelming (or overwhelming), which the Masterpiece system sort of solves, and people didn't like the frequency of Masterpieces, which the BAB system solves. If anything, Standard should just do that - I mean they already are willing to print Prerelease versions of every rare/mythic in a set, I don't see this as dramatically costlier - they don't even have to be alternate art - just full-art and it'll still function as an attraction point (let's be fair to them, alternate arts cost more money than just making the cards full-art.)
It's a bit tragic that the Topper Packs themselves are apparently identifiable and that's definitely going to cause some misfortune in some corner of the world (especially for the uninformed), but we're generally savvy enough when informed, plus it's definitely too late for to rectify that physically now, so awareness is honestly the best thing we can do for now (plus it's also a one-off system for now as much as I think it's one of the better solutions for Standard BABs it's just wishful thinking for now). If they ever do that either they make the thing completely opaque or completely transparent (I mean they technically don't want resale, so full-on transparency also solves the problem...)
Here's the flaw with the "oh you need MSRP and valuation to match" argument to justify jank mythics: a large enough volume would reduce secondary market prices overall, thus decreasing the value of those cards to a point where a lower MSRP makes sense. Truth is, these sets are just brief sales like buying a television on black friday. WOTC wants to protect vendors and collectors while also reprinting cards for players without these items. The truth is, though, and I will never stop saying this, anyone who thinks their cards outside the reserved list are entitled to constant appreciation of value are fools.
WOTC could easily balance a lower MSRP with increased supply.
The packs’ being searchable is really unfortunate. Being able to sell the packs for $75-$100 or whatever they end up being could’ve been really good for lowering the price of boxes for those just interested in the packs.
Just wanted to share this video about how the topper packs are searchable. Uploaded by a guy who was able to figure out how to do it. Caution for those buying overpriced topper packs on Ebay and the like.
I was thinking along the same lines with a very bright flashlight they could be searched. I also wonder about the numbers on the pack back itself. I've asked for someone to post up a picture of the pack backs but no one has.
In that video you can get a good look at the under-flap (around 2:07). There is an eight digit number printed in black text on the silver under flap.
Here's the flaw with the "oh you need MSRP and valuation to match" argument to justify jank mythics: a large enough volume would reduce secondary market prices overall, thus decreasing the value of those cards to a point where a lower MSRP makes sense. Truth is, these sets are just brief sales like buying a television on black friday. WOTC wants to protect vendors and collectors while also reprinting cards for players without these items. The truth is, though, and I will never stop saying this, anyone who thinks their cards outside the reserved list are entitled to constant appreciation of value are fools.
WOTC could easily balance a lower MSRP with increased supply.
That's why I said I'm cynical - it's not so much a flaw, I'm cynical that the "MSRP and valuation to match" system is one purposely engineered to precisely not reduce secondary market prices in the longer run, which in turn elevates the pricing of the primary product... I mean we do have evidence now the MSRP of Masters are only heading in one direction... and it's not down.
They definitely can easily balance a lower MSRP with increased supply, but they're basically doing the opposite now. They could have made Ultimate Masters have a MSRP of Standard Boosters and send out a free box topper to every player (via the DCI records) instead to only those screwed over by the Mythic Edition as a declaration that the end of Masters Era also heralds the incoming of improved reprint rates and quantity, but in reality every action here is basically signalling "we're closing the gates soon" and we all know how the Secondary Market loves to react to signals like that...
I don't disagree with you - people who think their cards are only entitled to appreciation are fools, but throughout the entire Masters Run, the system has basically shown that WotC caters to these fools. The flaws you pointed out are not wrong, but at the same time WotC has not actually utilized these particular "flaws" but instead subverted it. The very fact they can do all these wonderful things for the game but choose not to sends a very powerful message - that they consciously choose to cater to this group we call fools.
They sent this message out once when we moved from MM1 to MM2... and they're still doing it again despite the recent negativity around the series... and something tells me that while the vocal feedback was very negative, the financial reports were not as bad (or maybe even good, just not worth the PR), hence their willingness to broadcast the message again (I don't buy that WotC is doing this because they're egoistical stubborn fools who refuse to admit mistakes - it's a company of so many people interested in keeping their jobs after all, so I'm more inclined to believe that the financial reports are the actual drivers).
Balefire Dragon for $115 lol
Unopened one for $500
Man, some people are going to be pissed in a month when these things aren't near worth that.
DO NOT BUY sealed box toppers. They are SEARCHABLE.
Don't worry about me. I wouldn't buy any of those at those prices. To think people are asking more for 1 card than a box that comes with a sealed card in it. The fact you can search them is just icing on the unscrupulous cake.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
As a guy who has pulled Triskaidekaphobia, Tree of Redemption and Channel, I am super disinclined to buy Masters boosters to begin with, doubly so now that they are 14 bucks a pop.
Forget the box-floppers, I just want a reasonably priced entry point for a playset of Noble Hierarch. Here's to hoping this set gets opened into oblivion (relatively speaking) and we actually get some much needed reprints at realistic prices.
Forget the box-floppers, I just want a reasonably priced entry point for a playset of Noble Hierarch. Here's to hoping this set gets opened into oblivion (relatively speaking) and we actually get some much needed reprints at realistic prices.
There are a bunch of things on the list that fit the same request you have. Sadly I fear it will tank the stuff that's more rare and not played much, but won't have much effect on high priced staples.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Many others...
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Unfortunately you cannot guarantee anything unless you've seen the set list.
What is most unfortunate is the price tag preventing crazy mass opening. Which is slightly unfortunate.
STANDARD|UW Control MODERN| UBG Midrange PAUPER| UG Fog COMMANDER| UBG The Mimeoplasm
No, can’t guarantee anything, but consider that the most recently-standard card in the box topper 40 was Tasigur ... leads me to believe that the set range they are choosing to draw on for the contents of this set does not extend to as recent as BFZ. And if that’s the case ... that quite likely makes 1–2-3 All Is Dust, Artisan of Kozilek, and Eldrazi Conscription.
DO NOT BUY sealed box toppers. They are SEARCHABLE.
I mean, the price per booster box is outrageous on the MSRP value, but as long as there are loose packs and the draft packs I think it will get opened and sold. The big problem is that no one had any idea that this was coming, including the stores and possibly the distributors. I mean, this is insane because those guys have to get their orders in usually six to eight weeks ahead before spoilers start. They got barely any time to react and get orders in, let alone pre-orders.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Edit: Actually, though, is it really just Lavaclaw Reaches, Balefire Dragon, and Lord of Extinction that see virtually no play anywhere out of 40 promos? 3/40 is pretty bad luck, I woulda been happy with pretty much any of the other 37. Ah well, free is free. Maybe it's time to go grab a lottery ticket, though, I think this worked through my bad juju for a while.
EditEdit: Oh god, I just actually looked at the prices and somehow the Dragon and Lord are still over 10 bucks each. Is Lavaclaw the only sub-five dollar card in the Toppers??
EditEditEdit: Ok so after having actually looked through the lowest prices for each of the 40 non-promo versions of the cards, Stirring Wildwood and Tasigur, the Golden Fang are each worth less than Lavaclaw, but they both go into at least 1 deck that I know of, unlike the Reaches. I'll just be here in the corner, gnawing on my salt-pile for a while, if anyone needs me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7gkq1LZ2FU&app=desktop
The topper pack will come inside the booster box or outside?
I was thinking along the same lines with a very bright flashlight they could be searched. I also wonder about the numbers on the pack back itself. I've asked for someone to post up a picture of the pack backs but no one has. They could have solved this by sandwiching the card between two advertising cards or plain cardboard.
Buyers need to stay away from buying these secondhand unopened, period.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Can't wait for the release.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Wizards f***ed up again. This being so easily avoidable makes it even more frustrating. Seriously, how can this be an issue with a company having 25 years experience?
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp4XAa-nHMF/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1fai03fx8w2td
There will be jank in the remaining unrevealed cards (if Lavaclaw Reaches didn't convince you already) like any Masters Set. Anyone dreaming of a "Top 260+ Cards in Secondary Market Prices Masters" is just that - dreaming. If they really did that the MSRP would be even higher than what is presented here - I won't be surprised if the MSRP was decided behind-the-scenes by some mean/median calculated value of the Secondary Market Prices (which they obviously can't and won't even if they could announce it). In fact, I suspect that's how cards were selected for previous Masters Sets (not counting MM1), that the cards' Secondary Market Value after their mean/median calculated value cannot exceed the set MSRP by too much, hence either we get a highroll-lottery like MM2, or just plain flat boring typical value cards (that become less-than-value post-release).
I'm aware I sound cynical and salty, but at the same time as consumers we will probably never be given the insight of the actual decision processes and this being the last Masters Set (for "some time" at least), I felt I could establish how I think the system worked when it was active, solely based on observation on how basically all the Masters Sets worked (save MM1 as an anomaly for being the first try, it's basically the Alpha/Beta of the Masters Series) and as cynical as it seems, I'm also pretty sad how I came to this cynical result myself as well.
On the Box Toppers: Actually one of the better ideas they had. It's basically Buy-a-Box Promos spliced onto Masterpieces. Best part it's put directly into the sealed boxes, so basically it's "a guaranteed Buy-a-Box Masterpiece" system that "cannot be tampered with" (at least not blatantly, I mean if someone opened and resealed the thing meticulously it could potentially be done with every booster pack in the box as well, so I'll disregard the potential of the extreme cases here). People didn't like BABs being underwhelming (or overwhelming), which the Masterpiece system sort of solves, and people didn't like the frequency of Masterpieces, which the BAB system solves. If anything, Standard should just do that - I mean they already are willing to print Prerelease versions of every rare/mythic in a set, I don't see this as dramatically costlier - they don't even have to be alternate art - just full-art and it'll still function as an attraction point (let's be fair to them, alternate arts cost more money than just making the cards full-art.)
It's a bit tragic that the Topper Packs themselves are apparently identifiable and that's definitely going to cause some misfortune in some corner of the world (especially for the uninformed), but we're generally savvy enough when informed, plus it's definitely too late for to rectify that physically now, so awareness is honestly the best thing we can do for now (plus it's also a one-off system for now as much as I think it's one of the better solutions for Standard BABs it's just wishful thinking for now). If they ever do that either they make the thing completely opaque or completely transparent (I mean they technically don't want resale, so full-on transparency also solves the problem...)
WOTC could easily balance a lower MSRP with increased supply.
In that video you can get a good look at the under-flap (around 2:07). There is an eight digit number printed in black text on the silver under flap.
That's why I said I'm cynical - it's not so much a flaw, I'm cynical that the "MSRP and valuation to match" system is one purposely engineered to precisely not reduce secondary market prices in the longer run, which in turn elevates the pricing of the primary product... I mean we do have evidence now the MSRP of Masters are only heading in one direction... and it's not down.
They definitely can easily balance a lower MSRP with increased supply, but they're basically doing the opposite now. They could have made Ultimate Masters have a MSRP of Standard Boosters and send out a free box topper to every player (via the DCI records) instead to only those screwed over by the Mythic Edition as a declaration that the end of Masters Era also heralds the incoming of improved reprint rates and quantity, but in reality every action here is basically signalling "we're closing the gates soon" and we all know how the Secondary Market loves to react to signals like that...
I don't disagree with you - people who think their cards are only entitled to appreciation are fools, but throughout the entire Masters Run, the system has basically shown that WotC caters to these fools. The flaws you pointed out are not wrong, but at the same time WotC has not actually utilized these particular "flaws" but instead subverted it. The very fact they can do all these wonderful things for the game but choose not to sends a very powerful message - that they consciously choose to cater to this group we call fools.
They sent this message out once when we moved from MM1 to MM2... and they're still doing it again despite the recent negativity around the series... and something tells me that while the vocal feedback was very negative, the financial reports were not as bad (or maybe even good, just not worth the PR), hence their willingness to broadcast the message again (I don't buy that WotC is doing this because they're egoistical stubborn fools who refuse to admit mistakes - it's a company of so many people interested in keeping their jobs after all, so I'm more inclined to believe that the financial reports are the actual drivers).
The new Tasigur art looks like a skinny chinese man.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Don't worry about me. I wouldn't buy any of those at those prices. To think people are asking more for 1 card than a box that comes with a sealed card in it. The fact you can search them is just icing on the unscrupulous cake.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
There are a bunch of things on the list that fit the same request you have. Sadly I fear it will tank the stuff that's more rare and not played much, but won't have much effect on high priced staples.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB