Not looking forward to opening $14 Call the Skybreaker and *****. So I'll just buy the singles I want from the idiots that do.
This should be a sticky.
I want to be excited by the spoilers coming up in a couple of weeks, but how come I get this feeling we will see tons of Tree of Redemption level cards peppered throughout the set.
I wish they would knock our socks off but the last 2 have set the bar so low.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Considering a box is $300. $50-$75 for the Topper easy. So your at $225-$250. $9.50-$10.50/pck. A lot more valuable Mythics in this set than previous. Some good value in rares just so far. I dont see what the outrage is. Seems like a decent deal to me.
When more of this set gets spoiled I think prices will go up. (Especially if they truly are throwing the Kitchen sink at this)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
Considering a box is $300. $50-$75 for the Topper easy. So your at $225-$250. $9.50-$10.50/pck. A lot more valuable Mythics in this set than previous. Some good value in rares just so far. I dont see what the outrage is. Seems like a decent deal to me.
When more of this set gets spoiled I think prices will go up. (Especially if they truly are throwing the Kitchen sink at this)
That's kinda the vibe I'm getting on your first point.
As for your second point, I have no doubt enthusiasm will get worse. I'm just envisioning a ton of pure bulk rares, just awful inclusions from a financial perspective which makes cracking packs incredibly risky.
Not looking forward to opening $14 Call the Skybreaker and *****. So I'll just buy the singles I want from the idiots that do.
This should be a sticky.
I want to be excited by the spoilers coming up in a couple of weeks, but how come I get this feeling we will see tons of Tree of Redemption level cards peppered throughout the set.
I wish they would knock our socks off but the last 2 have set the bar so low.
Well at the very least we know they won’t hang us from a tree at the Mythic slot. We’ve seen all the mythics. Any further duds are rare or lower.
Am hoping some more low supply rates get put into circulation. The amount I’d have to pay to get a playset of Idyllic Tutor right now, when nobody’s using it competitively, is absurd. Even if the supply boost brings it down from a $27 card to a $7 card and makes it a sub-pack-value card - just making that sort of card attainable to casual brewers would do a world of good. I’m 4 tutors away from a deck I’m working on but those tutors nobody’s using would more than double my deck cost. And that ain’t right.
I really hope they did something boffo at the uncommon level. Like put cycles of former rares at uncommon. Imagine the draft pandemonium if the Liege cycle were in at uncommon!
33% of the set will be good, 33% of the set will be middling (some value but not worth the pack price), and 34% will be junk ($1 or less). If WotC designed this for drafting, there will most certainly be chafe.
"But WOTC is a business they need to make money". WOTC made money off every past Masters set that was released at the same old Masters set price of $10/pack.
They also made money when the packs were $7 for the first Masters set and since then no Masters set has been as good as it.
$13.99 msrp pack with a $0.66 stirring wildwood in it. Whoopee
There's nothing negative I can say about this set that hasn't already been said. I'd say that a switch+smash will cost $330 at current market cost. But someone already said that somewhere. So eh
simply indefensible to crank up MSRP on packs while putting the value in box toppers.
Aren’t you guys kind of jumping the gun the rest of the cards will be jank
I’m sure there’s quite a bit more that are high value cards or highly played cards but always want to buy cards by singles and not packs there’s still gonna be some low value cards though no question
For example cabal coffers could be in it since tomb of yawgmoth is and they may want to put in that combo.
Well at the very least we know they won’t hang us from a tree at the Mythic slot. We’ve seen all the mythics. Any further duds are rare or lower.
That's where the EV dies tho. MMA was so good and MM2 so bad, because one had $5+ commons and uncommons and the other didn't.
Wait what? Did you look at the rares? Colonnade Tutor Loam Hierarch Tomb Explosives Teeg Fulminator Goryos Breach. That’s a ton of EV at sub Mythic.
So far we’ve seen two uncommons, and both are great. The rares we’ve seen are loaded with value. It’s sheer pessimism and not reason, that has you assuming everything you haven’t seen is garbage (and seemingly thinking the same of that you have seen if you think all the value is at Mythic)
Reading through this whole thread I've yet to see a justification for the price increase of this set and its packs. A one-per-box promo ain't it, chief.
Seems pretty obvious that WOTC knew through every last masters set which cards players want most in these products and now that they've decided to put most/all of them into their last set they want to milk it.
"But WOTC is a business they need to make money". WOTC made money off every past Masters set that was released at the same old Masters set price of $10/pack. They didn't have to increase the price of packs for any reason visible within what we know about the set so far because, as was stated earlier, printing [card}Liliana of the Veil[/card], Snapcaster Mage, and Dark Confidant in these sets costs as much in ink and paper as Grizzly Bears, Ironclaw Orcs, and Dingus Egg.
What they did makes no sense at all. The last two masters sets sold like crap, so it sounded like they decided they would add value to this one via in-box promos. The problem is that someone over there decided to say "screw that idea" and upped the MSRP to account for the extra promo card. At this point this isn't a product for players as much as singles sellers and maybe a few whales who will buy a box or two. It bothers me that other games give the same kind of playable cards in special products at 100 dollars. Wizards of the coast needs some time cooling off in the corner because they are not generating a positive image with this.
FYI, I'm mostly surprised they decided to not just shelve this set. This was definitely designed in the same grouping as the last two masters sets and battlebond so this is effectively horseman number three of the 25th anniversary masters sets.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well at the very least we know they won’t hang us from a tree at the Mythic slot. We’ve seen all the mythics. Any further duds are rare or lower.
That's where the EV dies tho. MMA was so good and MM2 so bad, because one had $5+ commons and uncommons and the other didn't.
Wait what? Did you look at the rares? Colonnade Tutor Loam Hierarch Tomb Explosives Teeg Fulminator Goryos Breach. That’s a ton of EV at sub Mythic.
So far we’ve seen two uncommons, and both are great. The rares we’ve seen are loaded with value. It’s sheer pessimism and not reason, that has you assuming everything you haven’t seen is garbage (and seemingly thinking the same of that you have seen if you think all the value is at Mythic)
Yes value that should have been in previous Master sets
The problem is that this set would be fine at 7 dollars msrp. They now have jumped to 2x the price of the first masters set. I mean, first Diablo the Mobile micro transaction mart, and now WoTC running around with cotton stuffed in their ears and ignoring every single player of the games complaints about these sets. 240 dollars MSRP was already a pretty big burden, and now 330 dollars?!
Also, I'm pretty confident that the boxes will not be able to hold that 335 msrp price point. The box toppers effectively increase the supply of the mythics and rares from the mass openings and I would expect the full art box toppers will ultimately not hold much more value than the regular foils if they have a big run of these.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Aren’t you guys kind of jumping the gun the rest of the cards will be jank
I’m sure there’s quite a bit more that are high value cards or highly played cards but always want to buy cards by singles and not packs there’s still gonna be some low value cards though no question
For example cabal coffers could be in it since tomb of yawgmoth is and they may want to put in that combo.
The thing is they are always filled with wank. Look at MM3 and you have to pull phantasmal image (the 13th most valuable card) just to break even. There are only 4 mythics out of 14 that cost more than a single booster.
Cabal Coffers is crunched out, which is extremely disappointing.
There's plenty of chance for there to be more good stuff. We just have to know how much good stuff, whether the expensive cards are expensive due to lack of supply or high demand, and the value of the bulk stuff. $5-$7 rares aren't as bad as $1-$2 rares. And depending on how the commons and uncommons look, it might not be terrible. But we've only just begun. For all we know, the rest can be pure trash.
what do people here think is gonna happen with reprints now that we know this is gonna be the last masters set for the foreseeable future?
We've already seen a lot of options being tried out. Non-standard sets are the big one, but some high-profile reprints could also re-enter standard via core sets like Scapeshift and Crucible of Worlds did. Preconstructed product also offers a route, though that won't see really valuable stuff without a genuine effort to drive prices to oblivion.
EDIT: Not actually from Amazon; it's sold 3rd party by a LGS.
You can find pre-orders for boxes for under $300 on eBay. Adding in a 10% or even 15% off coupon that eBay sometimes throws around and a box including the boxtoppper doesn't seem so bad.
Of course these prices may not hold depending on how the rest of the set shapes out. If there's a ton more value in there, it may be tough to find boxes for under MSRP, but who knows.
what do people here think is gonna happen with reprints now that we know this is gonna be the last masters set for the foreseeable future?
We've already seen a lot of options being tried out. Non-standard sets are the big one, but some high-profile reprints could also re-enter standard via core sets like Scapeshift and Crucible of Worlds did. Preconstructed product also offers a route, though that won't see really valuable stuff without a genuine effort to drive prices to oblivion.
I guess that could have been a sign when they put actual value in a core set
We can get very exspensive reprints in standard and conspiracy esque sets
There are some notable cards that are worth worrying about such as Noble Hierarch and Snapcaster Mage. Those cards are so versatile that they slot into a lot of different builds and reprints barely touch their prices.
This new masters set bothers me in a lot of ways. The top 40 cards in the set includes Balefire Dragon, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Sigarda, Host of Herons, and Lavaclaw Reaches, and Stirring Wildwood. What they said with that is they don't have enough strong cards to make sure all the options one can pull with the box toppers will be a solid value and the card coming out of the box topper on the live stream was warped like a FTV foil.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The issue with many of these cards is it's tough to put them in most sets, even Battlebond/Conspiracy type sets because they contain a keyword. Noble Hierarch is tough to reprint because it has Exalted. Through the Breach and Goryo's Vengeance are tough to reprint because they have Splice. Engineered Explosives is tough to reprint because it has Sunburst, etc. That's where Masters sets are best. Crucible and Omniscience are easy for Standard because they don't have any specific keywords and wouldn't break the format. Cards like Doubling Sesaon can't be printed in Standard because it would break the format, and cards like TNN can't be printed in Standard because it has a keyword thta isn't used anymore. Masters sets allow you to have cards with outdated/funky keywords, where sets like Conspiracy and Battlebond are more limited because they already have keywords and the cards' keywords might not mesh well with what the set is trying to do.
Now whether or not Masters sets warrant the huge price increase per pack is a different story.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This should be a sticky.
I want to be excited by the spoilers coming up in a couple of weeks, but how come I get this feeling we will see tons of Tree of Redemption level cards peppered throughout the set.
I wish they would knock our socks off but the last 2 have set the bar so low.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
When more of this set gets spoiled I think prices will go up. (Especially if they truly are throwing the Kitchen sink at this)
That's kinda the vibe I'm getting on your first point.
As for your second point, I have no doubt enthusiasm will get worse. I'm just envisioning a ton of pure bulk rares, just awful inclusions from a financial perspective which makes cracking packs incredibly risky.
Well at the very least we know they won’t hang us from a tree at the Mythic slot. We’ve seen all the mythics. Any further duds are rare or lower.
Am hoping some more low supply rates get put into circulation. The amount I’d have to pay to get a playset of Idyllic Tutor right now, when nobody’s using it competitively, is absurd. Even if the supply boost brings it down from a $27 card to a $7 card and makes it a sub-pack-value card - just making that sort of card attainable to casual brewers would do a world of good. I’m 4 tutors away from a deck I’m working on but those tutors nobody’s using would more than double my deck cost. And that ain’t right.
I really hope they did something boffo at the uncommon level. Like put cycles of former rares at uncommon. Imagine the draft pandemonium if the Liege cycle were in at uncommon!
They also made money when the packs were $7 for the first Masters set and since then no Masters set has been as good as it.
There's nothing negative I can say about this set that hasn't already been said. I'd say that a switch+smash will cost $330 at current market cost. But someone already said that somewhere. So eh
simply indefensible to crank up MSRP on packs while putting the value in box toppers.
I’m sure there’s quite a bit more that are high value cards or highly played cards but always want to buy cards by singles and not packs there’s still gonna be some low value cards though no question
For example cabal coffers could be in it since tomb of yawgmoth is and they may want to put in that combo.
Wait what? Did you look at the rares? Colonnade Tutor Loam Hierarch Tomb Explosives Teeg Fulminator Goryos Breach. That’s a ton of EV at sub Mythic.
So far we’ve seen two uncommons, and both are great. The rares we’ve seen are loaded with value. It’s sheer pessimism and not reason, that has you assuming everything you haven’t seen is garbage (and seemingly thinking the same of that you have seen if you think all the value is at Mythic)
What they did makes no sense at all. The last two masters sets sold like crap, so it sounded like they decided they would add value to this one via in-box promos. The problem is that someone over there decided to say "screw that idea" and upped the MSRP to account for the extra promo card. At this point this isn't a product for players as much as singles sellers and maybe a few whales who will buy a box or two. It bothers me that other games give the same kind of playable cards in special products at 100 dollars. Wizards of the coast needs some time cooling off in the corner because they are not generating a positive image with this.
FYI, I'm mostly surprised they decided to not just shelve this set. This was definitely designed in the same grouping as the last two masters sets and battlebond so this is effectively horseman number three of the 25th anniversary masters sets.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Yes value that should have been in previous Master sets
Also, I'm pretty confident that the boxes will not be able to hold that 335 msrp price point. The box toppers effectively increase the supply of the mythics and rares from the mass openings and I would expect the full art box toppers will ultimately not hold much more value than the regular foils if they have a big run of these.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The thing is they are always filled with wank. Look at MM3 and you have to pull phantasmal image (the 13th most valuable card) just to break even. There are only 4 mythics out of 14 that cost more than a single booster.
And MM3 was one of the good master sets.
There's plenty of chance for there to be more good stuff. We just have to know how much good stuff, whether the expensive cards are expensive due to lack of supply or high demand, and the value of the bulk stuff. $5-$7 rares aren't as bad as $1-$2 rares. And depending on how the commons and uncommons look, it might not be terrible. But we've only just begun. For all we know, the rest can be pure trash.
More focused on conspiracy/battlebond whatever sets for the reprint sets
And minor ones in Core Sets.
I'm worried about anything approaching 100 though, because only masters sets support those it seems.
Noble was 100 a few weeks back.
Spirits
We've already seen a lot of options being tried out. Non-standard sets are the big one, but some high-profile reprints could also re-enter standard via core sets like Scapeshift and Crucible of Worlds did. Preconstructed product also offers a route, though that won't see really valuable stuff without a genuine effort to drive prices to oblivion.
EDIT: Not actually from Amazon; it's sold 3rd party by a LGS.
You can find pre-orders for boxes for under $300 on eBay. Adding in a 10% or even 15% off coupon that eBay sometimes throws around and a box including the boxtoppper doesn't seem so bad.
Of course these prices may not hold depending on how the rest of the set shapes out. If there's a ton more value in there, it may be tough to find boxes for under MSRP, but who knows.
We are talking WotC here.
You cant give their word any credit.
They will just keep printing these sets and simply not call them "Master" at least for 1 year.
In 2 years they might just roll back and do Master sets again, they just do whatever they want at this point.
Or do you need any refreshment on what they did to Standard Rotation and all that stuff in the last 2 years ?
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
There’s not that many important cards in modern/commander that’s above 100$ Though tarmogoyf isn’t exactly a $100+ card anymore for example
Besides we got crucible of worlds,scapeshift and Omniscience in a standard set
And doubling season and true-name Nemesis in a conspiracy/battlebond esque set
We can get very exspensive reprints in standard and conspiracy esque sets
I guess that could have been a sign when they put actual value in a core set
There are some notable cards that are worth worrying about such as Noble Hierarch and Snapcaster Mage. Those cards are so versatile that they slot into a lot of different builds and reprints barely touch their prices.
This new masters set bothers me in a lot of ways. The top 40 cards in the set includes Balefire Dragon, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Sigarda, Host of Herons, and Lavaclaw Reaches, and Stirring Wildwood. What they said with that is they don't have enough strong cards to make sure all the options one can pull with the box toppers will be a solid value and the card coming out of the box topper on the live stream was warped like a FTV foil.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Now whether or not Masters sets warrant the huge price increase per pack is a different story.