Demonic Tutor and Reanimate being upshifted is stupid. These are uncommons, not rares. These are being completely shifted because of secondary value. In no way would these be back breaking in limited.
This might have been a hit if they included the topper and kept the pack price at $10 (or maybe lower a bit to $8). But no, they just added $96 to the cost of a box for 1 card... 1 freaking card.
Wizards just keeps compounding mistakes with even bigger mistakes.
Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Demonic Tutor and Reanimate being upshifted is stupid. These are uncommons, not rares. These are being completely shifted because of secondary value. In no way would these be back breaking in limited.
This might have been a hit if they included the topper and kept the pack price at $10 (or maybe lower a bit to $8). But no, they just added $96 to the cost of a box for 1 card... 1 freaking card.
Wizards just keeps compounding mistakes with even bigger mistakes.
"How do we get out"
"Keep Digging!"
"No, dig up stupid!"
Um.. did you just say that a 2 mana no-restrictions tutor is uncommon? Have you played limited before? With price memory I'm beyond glad Demonic Tutor isn't a Mythic
... so they didn't just have two sets planned, they had three? And they are so desperate to recoup losses they are charging over 300 dollars a box, with the justification being the buyer gets a masterpiece?
Oh gods they probably just showed what the high end cards are for this set.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
... so they didn't just have two sets planned, they had three? And they are so desperate to recoup losses they are charging over 300 dollars a box, with the justification being the buyer gets a masterpiece?
Oh gods they probably just showed what the high end cards are for this set.
... so they didn't just have two sets planned, they had three? And they are so desperate to recoup losses they are charging over 300 dollars a box, with the justification being the buyer gets a masterpiece?
Oh gods they probably just showed what the high end cards are for this set.
And? Those are great cards.
Yeah I don’t get that angle. As a high end ... this is unprecedented-level amazing. Of the ten most valuable cards in modern, this has seven of them. Not to mention so many more way-over-a-pick-value modern and nonmodern cards.
The question here shouldn’t be about high end. The high end here is phenomenal. The question is is about the ‘low end’ rares and the value in commons and uncommons.
So after Wotc admitted that the last two masters set were not successful and that they need to rethink their vision for future masters sets... They come out with ANOTHER lottery set???
WHERE IS THE LOGIC??
If people are buying this *****... You deserve to buy the next one at 400$ then.
It depends on EV. If the box is literally full of format staples, with a few small duds (Wildwood for example) with an expected foil per pack, then you'll likely get your $15 per pack worth. There will be tons of these opened. Big stores will just crack them and re-sell like crazy. So enjoy your $20 Urborgs and $25 Creeping Tar Pits and $75 Liliana of the Veil for a while, then the prices will creep back up.
By no means is this an amazing deal, but it will sell if there are any amount of needed staples in here.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Antiantiserum: your op only lists 17 of the 20 Mythics in the rarity breakdown. Also Mythic but absent - Bitterblossom, Cavern of Souls, and Balefire Dragon.
(The reddit poster missed these three too - I told him that, he said he’d fix it, and last I checked he still hadn’t)
I mean this set isn't "goyf or bust." Most of the rares and mythics pay for a pack. People are saying "oh its $350 for 24 packs its $14 per pack its insane" not realizing that the box toppers will absorb some of that.
I'm excited, we just have two questions to address:
... so they didn't just have two sets planned, they had three? And they are so desperate to recoup losses they are charging over 300 dollars a box, with the justification being the buyer gets a masterpiece?
Oh gods they probably just showed what the high end cards are for this set.
I mean to be fair, the value of the cards shown alone vs the msrp is already an absurdly better bang for your buck vs any other masters set. Though it would've been really nice to see this just be a normal masters set that they finally got completely right.
... so they didn't just have two sets planned, they had three? And they are so desperate to recoup losses they are charging over 300 dollars a box, with the justification being the buyer gets a masterpiece?
Oh gods they probably just showed what the high end cards are for this set.
I mean to be fair, the value of the cards shown alone vs the msrp is already an absurdly better bang for your buck vs any other masters set. Though it would've been really nice to see this just be a normal masters set that they finally got completely right.
Hard to say now. For all we know, the rest of the rares can be straight bulk. They always release the good cards first, then the chaff trickles out as the set gets spoiled.
I think it'd be pure blindness on Wizards' part to not include the Tron lands here, but then again they could have included them in either of the Masters sets earlier this year. They seem like obvious inclusions, especially with Masters sets taking a break after this. Won't really get a good chance to reprint them for a long while.
Sadly, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth at 254/254 crunches out all Tron lands.
I also think it is safe to assume Dig Through Time is in as well and add it to the number crunch. Just look at the art they released for UMA (the one also on the booster box). It is essentially identical to Dig Through Time's art just from a different angle. Same woman, clothing, earrings, nails, ribbons, alter with the crown and of course... the "smokey dragon"
I guess Im in the minority. I like this. I will be buying lots of the 3-pcks from retail spots. I will try to buy a couple boxes from anywhere (since it says ALL boxes will have a topper, not just LGS preorders). I buy random boosters all the time (For FUN) so Ill just cut down on them for these. Probably will have decent cards at Unc and Common, gives me a chance at some big name cards I dont own. No biggie. Just wont buy anymore random Ravnica Guilds or many Allegiance packs. My only problem is Ill definately be the one who opens a Lavaclaw Reaches or Tasigur in my topper.
Surprisingly Noble Hierarch and Demonic Tutor are rare
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Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
Big thumbs up for making demonic tutor a rare and not mythic but still won’t be very long to gets its price back up though nearly every edh player in existence in the entire world wants this one I mean it’s the most sought after tutor in history of magic
But I’m not assumed we are not getting blightsteel colossus in this I can istantious tell It’s not happening I’m like 1 million percent sure that all of the mythic rares are shown inside those box toppers about Half of them are mythics in the normal version (except for a few rares and uncommons)
Not looking forward to opening $14 Call the Skybreaker and *****. So I'll just buy the singles I want from the idiots that do.
thats the thing though. wizards knows, and we know that this market of 'idiots' exists to make sure this kind of premium collector stuff flies off the shelves.
like everyone saying 'man this product is so expensive, i cant take part...'. well you arent the intended target anyways. however those who regularly buy multiple boxes of masters sets along with boxes of standard sets each year - is this really too much for them? hardly. people clamored for higher box EV, and it looks like they are getting it.
ive never bought a box of anything in my life, but i recognize the benefit because no matter how it shakes out its more supply hitting the market. im not mistaking the exclusivity that comes from premium pricing as some slight against me or some concerted effort keep me out of the game. 200 or 300 dollar boxes or hyper scarce promos makes no difference for those trying to get in, because buying boxes is a stupid method to do that (opposed to just grabbing the cheapest singles) and they wouldnt be taking part anyways.
if people were expecting some cheap set with a massive print run to hammer down prices into levels they havent been in years or ever...well i wish you the best of luck; but it isnt a realistic expectation. literally no masters set has done that, nor has it ever been stated that is the goal. all the 'wizards is stupid for leaving money on the table by not letting more players join the game' vitriol is unfounded and unreasonable. they are pairing complaints about greed with an 'obvious solution to make more money' - how does that work out? if greed was their sole motivator/factor, they would be doing it...because its obvious and makes more money. given the idea IS kind of obvious, the only logical conclusion is that it in fact might not make them more money (for whatever reasons).
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
A random Masterpiece per box somehow makes the packs cost an extra $4. How did they come to that kind of math?
I'm just going to come out and say that this will be the worse Masters set, just because of the price. The only way it wouldn't be is if every mything/rare in this set is $10, at least 10 uncommons worth $5-$10, and a few commons worth more than $2, but we already know that's not happening with two of the manlands.
It was already incredibly stupid that you could open up a $1 rare inside of a $10 pack, but to take the packs to $14 is absurd, to say the least.
... so they didn't just have two sets planned, they had three? And they are so desperate to recoup losses they are charging over 300 dollars a box, with the justification being the buyer gets a masterpiece?
Oh gods they probably just showed what the high end cards are for this set.
I mean to be fair, the value of the cards shown alone vs the msrp is already an absurdly better bang for your buck vs any other masters set. Though it would've been really nice to see this just be a normal masters set that they finally got completely right.
Hard to say now. For all we know, the rest of the rares can be straight bulk. They always release the good cards first, then the chaff trickles out as the set gets spoiled.
Even with the rest of the set being bulk, the numbers show the value-cost ratio is better than the other masters sets with the exception of maybe the first modern masters.
Though, this doesn't account for how much the cards will drop. Which is impossible to know without print runs really.
Any thoughts on the actual reprints for this set? I mean, at that price, I feel like each of the masterpiece cards should also be available in regular format in the set. If so, that would definitely make the box worthwhile. However, we'd better not be paying an extra hundred dollars for a CHANCE of getting one of the better box toppers.
Any thoughts on the actual reprints for this set? I mean, at that price, I feel like each of the masterpiece cards should also be available in regular format in the set. If so, that would definitely make the box worthwhile. However, we'd better not be paying an extra hundred dollars for a CHANCE of getting one of the better box toppers.
They are. That was part of the confirm today. All 40 in normal format in packs. 20 mythics 18 rares and 2 uncommons. The op now shows the normal pack rarities for these 40 and the mothership site has the normal arts up.
Reading through this whole thread I've yet to see a justification for the price increase of this set and its packs. A one-per-box promo ain't it, chief.
Seems pretty obvious that WOTC knew through every last masters set which cards players want most in these products and now that they've decided to put most/all of them into their last set they want to milk it.
"But WOTC is a business they need to make money". WOTC made money off every past Masters set that was released at the same old Masters set price of $10/pack. They didn't have to increase the price of packs for any reason visible within what we know about the set so far because, as was stated earlier, printing [card}Liliana of the Veil[/card], Snapcaster Mage, and Dark Confidant in these sets costs as much in ink and paper as Grizzly Bears, Ironclaw Orcs, and Dingus Egg.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
Reading through this whole thread I've yet to see a justification for the price increase of this set and its packs. A one-per-box promo ain't it, chief.
Seems pretty obvious that WOTC knew through every last masters set which cards players want most in these products and now that they've decided to put most/all of them into their last set they want to milk it.
"But WOTC is a business they need to make money". WOTC made money off every past Masters set that was released at the same old Masters set price of $10/pack. They didn't have to increase the price of packs for any reason visible within what we know about the set so far because, as was stated earlier, printing [card}Liliana of the Veil[/card], Snapcaster Mage, and Dark Confidant in these sets costs as much in ink and paper as Grizzly Bears, Ironclaw Orcs, and Dingus Egg.
yeah, and what was also pointed out earlier is that the value of intellectual property or similar commodities is mostly based off perception. its obvious there are other things at play than pure production cost.
for instance if wizards was truly out to make a quick buck, and given the idea that they are functionally printing money (replacing those bears for snaps at their discretion). wouldnt it make more sense to... you know...print more? like a lot more? and just rake in those short term profits?
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Thinking about it more and more, we really have to look at several things here.
First, rather than look at the $14/pack price for the boxes, we should be looking at the $35/3 packs, ie 11 2/3, or I'll round it up to $11.75/pack. That's the real retail price, as the booster box is factoring in the boxtopper, which is in the shrinkwrap and won't be stolen by the LGS. So it's really closer to a $2 increase in price, less technically, than it is a $4 increase.
Another thing is I don't think people are valuing the boxtoppers enough. Yes, some of them are duds. Some of them, like a couple of the manlands, will be maybe $10 at most. But the vast majority will be at least $50, with some reaching $100 or more, like Snappy, Lili, Cavern, Goyf, Demonic Tutor, etc. While I don't think many, if any, will reach the astronomically high price of some of the Kaladesh Inventions, I do think the value of a sealed boxtopper will be high. I'm genuinely curious what the price of a sealed boxtopper will be. Because you also have to factor that into pack prices. IF a sealed boxtopper settles in at $75, you should be taking $75 off the MSRP of the box when factoring just the packs. Maybe it'll be higher, maybe it'll be lower, who knows. And because the blister packs will be sold at big box stores, will Amazon sell them? If so, will they be sold for MSRP? What we've seen so far from Amazon is they've been selling Magic products for below MSRP. Maybe they'll sell these Blister packs for $32 or even $30, making them ever closer to the MSRP of the old Masters packs.
But most importantly, it comes down to the cards. The mythic slot is historically good, with most cards having actual demand, not just low supply, though there are cards like that like Temporal Manipulation that are only expensive due to low supply. However, if you look at a card like Time Warp which is literally the exact same card, just with a different name, it's not like it'll crash down to $5 a copy; Time Warp is around $15, ie breaking even with MSRP of a pack. The rare cycle so far has been decent, but we know that things start off well and then crash later on. I'm just praying the total bulk rares are few and far between and we don't have a huge boom/bust rare slot. Seeing Entomb is also good to see. But we have a ton more rares to go.
It's just too soon to say anything. Yes, it ******* sucks that MSRP was raised. But it's clear they're putting in a ton of really good cards into the set. I just hope it continues. And I think people are seriously underestimating the boxtoppers.
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This might have been a hit if they included the topper and kept the pack price at $10 (or maybe lower a bit to $8). But no, they just added $96 to the cost of a box for 1 card... 1 freaking card.
Wizards just keeps compounding mistakes with even bigger mistakes.
"How do we get out"
"Keep Digging!"
"No, dig up stupid!"
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Um.. did you just say that a 2 mana no-restrictions tutor is uncommon? Have you played limited before? With price memory I'm beyond glad Demonic Tutor isn't a Mythic
Oh gods they probably just showed what the high end cards are for this set.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
And? Those are great cards.
Spirits
Yeah I don’t get that angle. As a high end ... this is unprecedented-level amazing. Of the ten most valuable cards in modern, this has seven of them. Not to mention so many more way-over-a-pick-value modern and nonmodern cards.
The question here shouldn’t be about high end. The high end here is phenomenal. The question is is about the ‘low end’ rares and the value in commons and uncommons.
It depends on EV. If the box is literally full of format staples, with a few small duds (Wildwood for example) with an expected foil per pack, then you'll likely get your $15 per pack worth. There will be tons of these opened. Big stores will just crack them and re-sell like crazy. So enjoy your $20 Urborgs and $25 Creeping Tar Pits and $75 Liliana of the Veil for a while, then the prices will creep back up.
By no means is this an amazing deal, but it will sell if there are any amount of needed staples in here.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
(The reddit poster missed these three too - I told him that, he said he’d fix it, and last I checked he still hadn’t)
I'm excited, we just have two questions to address:
1. How do the commons and uncommons look?
2. How large is the print run?
I mean to be fair, the value of the cards shown alone vs the msrp is already an absurdly better bang for your buck vs any other masters set. Though it would've been really nice to see this just be a normal masters set that they finally got completely right.
Hard to say now. For all we know, the rest of the rares can be straight bulk. They always release the good cards first, then the chaff trickles out as the set gets spoiled.
I also think it is safe to assume Dig Through Time is in as well and add it to the number crunch. Just look at the art they released for UMA (the one also on the booster box). It is essentially identical to Dig Through Time's art just from a different angle. Same woman, clothing, earrings, nails, ribbons, alter with the crown and of course... the "smokey dragon"
Surprisingly Noble Hierarch and Demonic Tutor are rare
But I’m not assumed we are not getting blightsteel colossus in this I can istantious tell It’s not happening I’m like 1 million percent sure that all of the mythic rares are shown inside those box toppers about Half of them are mythics in the normal version (except for a few rares and uncommons)
thats the thing though. wizards knows, and we know that this market of 'idiots' exists to make sure this kind of premium collector stuff flies off the shelves.
like everyone saying 'man this product is so expensive, i cant take part...'. well you arent the intended target anyways. however those who regularly buy multiple boxes of masters sets along with boxes of standard sets each year - is this really too much for them? hardly. people clamored for higher box EV, and it looks like they are getting it.
ive never bought a box of anything in my life, but i recognize the benefit because no matter how it shakes out its more supply hitting the market. im not mistaking the exclusivity that comes from premium pricing as some slight against me or some concerted effort keep me out of the game. 200 or 300 dollar boxes or hyper scarce promos makes no difference for those trying to get in, because buying boxes is a stupid method to do that (opposed to just grabbing the cheapest singles) and they wouldnt be taking part anyways.
if people were expecting some cheap set with a massive print run to hammer down prices into levels they havent been in years or ever...well i wish you the best of luck; but it isnt a realistic expectation. literally no masters set has done that, nor has it ever been stated that is the goal. all the 'wizards is stupid for leaving money on the table by not letting more players join the game' vitriol is unfounded and unreasonable. they are pairing complaints about greed with an 'obvious solution to make more money' - how does that work out? if greed was their sole motivator/factor, they would be doing it...because its obvious and makes more money. given the idea IS kind of obvious, the only logical conclusion is that it in fact might not make them more money (for whatever reasons).
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I'm just going to come out and say that this will be the worse Masters set, just because of the price. The only way it wouldn't be is if every mything/rare in this set is $10, at least 10 uncommons worth $5-$10, and a few commons worth more than $2, but we already know that's not happening with two of the manlands.
It was already incredibly stupid that you could open up a $1 rare inside of a $10 pack, but to take the packs to $14 is absurd, to say the least.
Though, this doesn't account for how much the cards will drop. Which is impossible to know without print runs really.
They are. That was part of the confirm today. All 40 in normal format in packs. 20 mythics 18 rares and 2 uncommons. The op now shows the normal pack rarities for these 40 and the mothership site has the normal arts up.
Seems pretty obvious that WOTC knew through every last masters set which cards players want most in these products and now that they've decided to put most/all of them into their last set they want to milk it.
"But WOTC is a business they need to make money". WOTC made money off every past Masters set that was released at the same old Masters set price of $10/pack. They didn't have to increase the price of packs for any reason visible within what we know about the set so far because, as was stated earlier, printing [card}Liliana of the Veil[/card], Snapcaster Mage, and Dark Confidant in these sets costs as much in ink and paper as Grizzly Bears, Ironclaw Orcs, and Dingus Egg.
-Chandra Nalaar
yeah, and what was also pointed out earlier is that the value of intellectual property or similar commodities is mostly based off perception. its obvious there are other things at play than pure production cost.
for instance if wizards was truly out to make a quick buck, and given the idea that they are functionally printing money (replacing those bears for snaps at their discretion). wouldnt it make more sense to... you know...print more? like a lot more? and just rake in those short term profits?
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)First, rather than look at the $14/pack price for the boxes, we should be looking at the $35/3 packs, ie 11 2/3, or I'll round it up to $11.75/pack. That's the real retail price, as the booster box is factoring in the boxtopper, which is in the shrinkwrap and won't be stolen by the LGS. So it's really closer to a $2 increase in price, less technically, than it is a $4 increase.
Another thing is I don't think people are valuing the boxtoppers enough. Yes, some of them are duds. Some of them, like a couple of the manlands, will be maybe $10 at most. But the vast majority will be at least $50, with some reaching $100 or more, like Snappy, Lili, Cavern, Goyf, Demonic Tutor, etc. While I don't think many, if any, will reach the astronomically high price of some of the Kaladesh Inventions, I do think the value of a sealed boxtopper will be high. I'm genuinely curious what the price of a sealed boxtopper will be. Because you also have to factor that into pack prices. IF a sealed boxtopper settles in at $75, you should be taking $75 off the MSRP of the box when factoring just the packs. Maybe it'll be higher, maybe it'll be lower, who knows. And because the blister packs will be sold at big box stores, will Amazon sell them? If so, will they be sold for MSRP? What we've seen so far from Amazon is they've been selling Magic products for below MSRP. Maybe they'll sell these Blister packs for $32 or even $30, making them ever closer to the MSRP of the old Masters packs.
But most importantly, it comes down to the cards. The mythic slot is historically good, with most cards having actual demand, not just low supply, though there are cards like that like Temporal Manipulation that are only expensive due to low supply. However, if you look at a card like Time Warp which is literally the exact same card, just with a different name, it's not like it'll crash down to $5 a copy; Time Warp is around $15, ie breaking even with MSRP of a pack. The rare cycle so far has been decent, but we know that things start off well and then crash later on. I'm just praying the total bulk rares are few and far between and we don't have a huge boom/bust rare slot. Seeing Entomb is also good to see. But we have a ton more rares to go.
It's just too soon to say anything. Yes, it ******* sucks that MSRP was raised. But it's clear they're putting in a ton of really good cards into the set. I just hope it continues. And I think people are seriously underestimating the boxtoppers.