The problem is convoke. You need a large amount of small token for Convoke to actually bring value. So they are printing toolbox card which also can serve as a body.
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its been brought up in other threads, but whats the deal with like none of the selesnya cards summoning beasts or elementals?
Difference with populate and convoke as the driving mechanic. When they had populate it was worth putting the elements and wurms on tokens but now they rather have the big creatures be real cards with convoke on them and make the tokens tiny so you can use them to convoke. Ravnica 1 only had selesnya making 1/1 Saproling.
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"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Oh, Assurance//Association will be a very nice card against control decks in the coming standard: 3x 2/2 at Instant speed will need to be answered fast. It would play the same role as CoCo.
I'd be interested in hearing how they came up with the three letters for each split card. I'd also be interested in knowing whether or not any of the team had to stifle their snickering when they settled on Selesnya's.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I honestly miss the Saprolings from the first Ravnica. They worked best with the Convoke mechanic because they were these 1/1 little guys that you treated more as a resource, and if you had to chump block you really felt the pain because they were pretty much land cards for your deck. Don't get me wrong, vigilance in a convoke deck is nice but when we have Ritual of Soot, we might be in need of quantity over quality.
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its been brought up in other threads, but whats the deal with like none of the selesnya cards summoning beasts or elementals?
Difference with populate and convoke as the driving mechanic. When they had populate it was worth putting the elements and wurms on tokens but now they rather have the big creatures be real cards with convoke on them and make the tokens tiny so you can use them to convoke. Ravnica 1 only had selesnya making 1/1 Saproling.
Still if you want a 1/1 token and a 2/2 token, soldier and knight are not the best pair for a guild like Selesnya. I would rather have something like 1/1 elf clerics and 2/2 green wolves. Or at least regular saprolings instead of human soldiers and keep the elven knights.
I have no idea why they didn't do saprolings this time. It always felt like a Selesnya trademark to me.
Association looks like it's better than most "create three tokens cards", but only because it has another mode and convoke. A lot like Triplicate Spirits, TBH.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
the nature guild can't find a way to create plants and animals to fight and defend any more? even though they've done that for millenia, and suddenly just stops their MO. because bad storytelling.
They also tend to want to over correct whenever they return to a past set, artifact focused sets seemingly are the exception to this. This happened with the Eldrazi tokens, and what they are doing with the Dimir which appears to be a on its way to being rather good compared to past iterations.
If they felt that making a ton of 1/1 saprolings in convoke was going to be an issue, then they just needed to make more answers for it. Like the goblin chainwhirler and the Ritual of Soot, just add in maybe two more cards in blue and/or white that hate tokens and there you go, any deck color has an answer for the token armies. But knowing Wizards, they did make more anti token and have skimped out on cards that make tokens.
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Never forget whose grace and favor led to your success and always give your thanks, otherwise you might be doomed to loose it.
They also tend to want to over correct whenever they return to a past set, artifact focused sets seemingly are the exception to this. This happened with the Eldrazi tokens, and what they are doing with the Dimir which appears to be a on its way to being rather good compared to past iterations.
If they felt that making a ton of 1/1 saprolings in convoke was going to be an issue, then they just needed to make more answers for it. Like the goblin chainwhirler and the Ritual of Soot, just add in maybe two more cards in blue and/or white that hate tokens and there you go, any deck color has an answer for the token armies. But knowing Wizards, they did make more anti token and have skimped out on cards that make tokens.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
If I had to guess, I'd say that they ended up getting constrained by Dominaria's Saproling support. Dominaria had some decent saproling support cards, so if they had any tournament quality token producers, they would have to assume that they could be played with Saproling lords and such. So rather than risk having to tone down cards like March of the Multitudes, they changed the token to not synergize with Dominaria, and that allowed them to give it the small bonus of lifelink.
i can get march of multitudes summoning a bunch of humanoids. i just look at a mono green card supposedly named "sprouting renewal", and it pops out an elf? what do they grow them on ravnica or something?
the art literally has an elemental/plant beast thingy. apparently his job is to bust up stuff and grow elves. /shrug
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
i can get march of multitudes summoning a bunch of humanoids. i just look at a mono green card supposedly named "sprouting renewal", and it pops out an elf? what do they grow them on ravnica or something?
the art literally has an elemental/plant beast thingy. apparently his job is to bust up stuff and grow elves. /shrug
yawn more humanoids, like the multiverse isn't already 80% humans
Still if you want a 1/1 token and a 2/2 token, soldier and knight are not the best pair for a guild like Selesnya. I would rather have something like 1/1 elf clerics and 2/2 green wolves. Or at least regular saprolings instead of human soldiers and keep the elven knights.
I have no idea why they didn't do saprolings this time. It always felt like a Selesnya trademark to me.
Clerics and Wolves would have been fine - Saprolings though are green vanilla 1/1s (we don't talk about the exception). If they settle on 1/1s having lifelink, then they shouldn't use Saprolings. And at least the 1/1s understandably also are the Boros tokens, so Soldier is a better choice than Cleric - and white is the better color for small numerous tokens. At some point flavor has to give.
I am a little surprised from what they've shown so far, where they went with Golgari in that recard. The kraul invite Insect tokens, but so far they haven't shown us anything that couldn't have kept their Saprolings.
The green white 2/2 token with vigilance is Selesnya themed, so Wolf would have been an option - but mechanically Knight is a relevant creature type - and Elf is not irrelevant in Standard, so at least that's justified. It's a weird thing that all of this comes together and turns Golgari and Selesnya both into guilds that don't create Saprolings, but in RTR-block we had only one Saproling creation card total, so it's not beyond belief. It's certainly explicable.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
It really bugs me that Association makes Elf tokens, but the card art shows three dryads. Maybe the intent is that the dryads are calling for reinforcements, but that still leaves a very unclear relation between the card's art and game play function.
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Assurance
Rare
Instant
Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature. That creature gains indestructible until end of turn.
//
Association
Rare
Instant
Create three 2/2 green and white Elf Knight creature tokens with vigilance.
-----------------
"Sprouting Renewal"
Sorcery
(Unco)
Convoke
Choose one —
• Create a 2/2 green and white Elf Knight creature token with vigilance.
• Destroy target artifact or enchantment.
cmon selesnya, gotta diversify that portfolio
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
Difference with populate and convoke as the driving mechanic. When they had populate it was worth putting the elements and wurms on tokens but now they rather have the big creatures be real cards with convoke on them and make the tokens tiny so you can use them to convoke. Ravnica 1 only had selesnya making 1/1 Saproling.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Selesnya is the perfect guild for me. Everythangs so beautiful. I wanna spend my life @ this place with those beautiful people <3
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Story wise, they are becoming more aggressive/defensive due to Cold War. And I’m curious about Trostani being “discordant” too.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Izzet: Inv and Exp
Dimir: Dis and Con
Golgari: Sta and Fin
Selesnya: Flo and ASS
I'd be interested in hearing how they came up with the three letters for each split card. I'd also be interested in knowing whether or not any of the team had to stifle their snickering when they settled on Selesnya's.
Hey, Selesnya likes big butts and it cannot lie.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Still if you want a 1/1 token and a 2/2 token, soldier and knight are not the best pair for a guild like Selesnya. I would rather have something like 1/1 elf clerics and 2/2 green wolves. Or at least regular saprolings instead of human soldiers and keep the elven knights.
I have no idea why they didn't do saprolings this time. It always felt like a Selesnya trademark to me.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
On phasing:
........................
If they felt that making a ton of 1/1 saprolings in convoke was going to be an issue, then they just needed to make more answers for it. Like the goblin chainwhirler and the Ritual of Soot, just add in maybe two more cards in blue and/or white that hate tokens and there you go, any deck color has an answer for the token armies. But knowing Wizards, they did make more anti token and have skimped out on cards that make tokens.
White has Settle the Wreckage
and blue has River's Rebuke
granted those aren't the best solutions.
-Stay Frosty
I get that they want the green/white tokens to better Convoke - but still...
the art literally has an elemental/plant beast thingy. apparently his job is to bust up stuff and grow elves. /shrug
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)That's a statue. Getting destroyed by plants. It's showing the "destroy target artifact or enchantment" mode of the spell.
yawn more humanoids, like the multiverse isn't already 80% humans
........................
Clerics and Wolves would have been fine - Saprolings though are green vanilla 1/1s (we don't talk about the exception). If they settle on 1/1s having lifelink, then they shouldn't use Saprolings. And at least the 1/1s understandably also are the Boros tokens, so Soldier is a better choice than Cleric - and white is the better color for small numerous tokens. At some point flavor has to give.
I am a little surprised from what they've shown so far, where they went with Golgari in that recard. The kraul invite Insect tokens, but so far they haven't shown us anything that couldn't have kept their Saprolings.
The green white 2/2 token with vigilance is Selesnya themed, so Wolf would have been an option - but mechanically Knight is a relevant creature type - and Elf is not irrelevant in Standard, so at least that's justified. It's a weird thing that all of this comes together and turns Golgari and Selesnya both into guilds that don't create Saprolings, but in RTR-block we had only one Saproling creation card total, so it's not beyond belief. It's certainly explicable.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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