90% of the time Teferi doesn't really do anything, either. Yes, drawing a card and untapping 2 lands is nice but that doesn't impact the board in any way whatsoever. Yes, you pass the turn holding up mana for that counter you have in your hand but what if your opponent casts a spell which cannot be countered? What if, what if, what if.
In the upcoming Standard, once everyone gets past the sea of mono-red which happens every time rotation occurs this walker will find her home in a nice midrange deck which can outlast the aggro.
She seems solid! You probably have an elf or somesuch you can sacrifice to her, but that seems like setting yourself back. Maybe in a more midrange deck where you can just set yourself up, or perhaps in an Abzan build with the new token-making spell? Four-mana planeswalkers are nothing to sneeze at, they almost always see play.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Do we have anything yet in Standard that wants to be sacrificed?
We're seeing a lot of tools for a Rock archetype to come back, but are there any cards that make Vraska's +2 into a competitive card draw engine to Karn's +/-1?
No they meant poisonous 10 because the creature gives 10 poison counters when it connects. Its a joke thematic to the walker that would be nice to see
But it isn’t thematic.
She doesn’t poison anyone to death. Gorgons petrifize their targets by looking at them and thus turning them to stone. It would be a flavor fail if she gave out poison.
It's not her killing the person though, it's her assassins, and poison is a classic tool of such agents.
Do we have anything yet in Standard that wants to be sacrificed?
We're seeing a lot of tools for a Rock archetype to come back, but are there any cards that make Vraska's +2 into a competitive card draw engine to Karn's +/-1?
Midnight Reaper, perhaps. The Reassembling Skeleton mitigates the sacrifice, even if it is a little slow. On the upper end of the mana cost spectrum Open the Graves is a possibility. Pitiless Plunderer can give you a treasure token for your trouble. Nothing really spectacular yet but in black/green you can probably spam some saproling tokens which you won't mind sacrificing if need be. You would already have to be ahead and the game would have to be slow but you could even Journey to Eternity before the sacrifice to net you a land and an instant-speed resurrection engine for later turns. The "may" clause is good here because in earlier turns sacrificing a permanent can be difficult but we did also get to see the Golgari Findbroker today to recover that permanent back to hand. *shrug* We'll just have to see what else falls out of this set.
Do we have anything yet in Standard that wants to be sacrificed?
We're seeing a lot of tools for a Rock archetype to come back, but are there any cards that make Vraska's +2 into a competitive card draw engine to Karn's +/-1?
Do we have anything yet in Standard that wants to be sacrificed?
We're seeing a lot of tools for a Rock archetype to come back, but are there any cards that make Vraska's +2 into a competitive card draw engine to Karn's +/-1?
Midnight Reaper, perhaps. The Reassembling Skeleton mitigates the sacrifice, even if it is a little slow. On the upper end of the mana cost spectrum Open the Graves is a possibility. Pitiless Plunderer can give you a treasure token for your trouble. Nothing really spectacular yet but in black/green you can probably spam some saproling tokens which you won't mind sacrificing if need be. You would already have to be ahead and the game would have to be slow but you could even Journey to Eternity before the sacrifice to net you a land and an instant-speed resurrection engine for later turns. The "may" clause is good here because in earlier turns sacrificing a permanent can be difficult but we did also get to see the Golgari Findbroker today to recover that permanent back to hand. *shrug* We'll just have to see what else falls out of this set.
I'm really hype for Steel Leaf Stompy post rotation, but man... Playing saprolings is really fun and I think it's going to be bonkers post rotation hehe.
90% of the time Teferi doesn't really do anything, either. Yes, drawing a card and untapping 2 lands is nice but that doesn't impact the board in any way whatsoever. Yes, you pass the turn holding up mana for that counter you have in your hand but what if your opponent casts a spell which cannot be countered? What if, what if, what if.
In the upcoming Standard, once everyone gets past the sea of mono-red which happens every time rotation occurs this walker will find her home in a nice midrange deck which can outlast the aggro.
Teferi very much does something on his own--He draws you a card. "Draw a card" is one of the most powerful lines of text in the history of the game. Conversely, "You may sac a creature to do X" is stone-cold worthless if you don't control any creatures. Teferi is powerful regardless of the deck it's in while new Vraska is a build-around that requires set up. That's perfectly fine, I never said I didn't like this new version of Vraska.
Teferi very much does something on his own--He draws you a card. "Draw a card" is one of the most powerful lines of text in the history of the game. Conversely, "You may sac a creature to do X" is stone-cold worthless if you don't control any creatures. Teferi is powerful regardless of the deck it's in while new Vraska is a build-around that requires set up. That's perfectly fine, I never said I didn't like this new version of Vraska.
I don't disagree with your assessment. I was really addressing the line of reasoning indicated by other posters that "doesn't impact the board" equates to "bad". I didn't quote anyone specifically so my comments appear to address your concerns only by chance.
I feel like she's meant for Legacy play, even if she's not the best of colors. She can filter your *****tier lands, and kill most Legacy permanents. Her +2 feeds Grumag Anglers and Tasigurs while providing you with new fuel.
Unless there is a lot of tokens, creatures that want to be dead, or you're able to get to the point of the game with 10+ lands I don't see her doing much. She isn't terrible, but she needs something pretty specific to work to her best ability.
I do like that her + rummage ability lets you play the lands before rummagnig them away rather than keeping them in hand.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote me for replies.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor
I do think this card is going to be a bit overrated at first. I literally think that because it looks cool with the art, with her snake dreads popping out, that people are going to rate this more highly than her actual abilities.
Not to say that she isn't good, but I think people are going to not understand fully that sacrificing a permanent is a HUGE build around. There is no way sacrificing your lands is an option for winning a game.
Replacing a card that you've had to play out onto the battlefield for drawing a card, is not considered card advantage.
It's going to need some sort of token or recurring graveyard strategy in order to meet the sacrifice requirements to actually gain advantage.
The thing that makes it viable is that its [+2] and not [+1] for the draw. Getting her up to 6 loyalty on the first turn is pretty nice.
I'm just saying you're going to get lots of players jamming her into their decks, thinking that she's good as a standalone, and then after game play realize using her [+2] is actually getting you behind on board.
Using her as a 4 mana removal is still strong and demands that opponents deal with her.
Wizards has the Gorgon Queen, and Blizzard has the Banshee Queen. What I wouldn't give to see the pair of them fighting each other.
I do like they made the +2 a May ability rather than a Must ability. If you don't feel like saccing, no problem - you still get the loyalty.
In the upcoming Standard, once everyone gets past the sea of mono-red which happens every time rotation occurs this walker will find her home in a nice midrange deck which can outlast the aggro.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Those restrictions are what allow for cards to not be busted open.
Spirits
The ultimate is even better than her assassins from last time
Now it’s permanently taping “you lose the game” damage to all creatures and future to enter creatures.
We're seeing a lot of tools for a Rock archetype to come back, but are there any cards that make Vraska's +2 into a competitive card draw engine to Karn's +/-1?
It's not her killing the person though, it's her assassins, and poison is a classic tool of such agents.
Midnight Reaper, perhaps. The Reassembling Skeleton mitigates the sacrifice, even if it is a little slow. On the upper end of the mana cost spectrum Open the Graves is a possibility. Pitiless Plunderer can give you a treasure token for your trouble. Nothing really spectacular yet but in black/green you can probably spam some saproling tokens which you won't mind sacrificing if need be. You would already have to be ahead and the game would have to be slow but you could even Journey to Eternity before the sacrifice to net you a land and an instant-speed resurrection engine for later turns. The "may" clause is good here because in earlier turns sacrificing a permanent can be difficult but we did also get to see the Golgari Findbroker today to recover that permanent back to hand. *shrug* We'll just have to see what else falls out of this set.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
There's also the M19 zombie one-drop. Stitcher's Supplier
Any deck that wants Stitcher's Supplier to enter the battlefield tends to want it to leave the battlefield too.
I'm really hype for Steel Leaf Stompy post rotation, but man... Playing saprolings is really fun and I think it's going to be bonkers post rotation hehe.
A mind reader would love unpredictability just to shake things up.
Guess I was right about the CMC at least.
I have a feeling that the best home for this card is in Saproling.dec for the moment. They're definitely the best enablers for the +2.
I don't disagree with your assessment. I was really addressing the line of reasoning indicated by other posters that "doesn't impact the board" equates to "bad". I didn't quote anyone specifically so my comments appear to address your concerns only by chance.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor
Not to say that she isn't good, but I think people are going to not understand fully that sacrificing a permanent is a HUGE build around. There is no way sacrificing your lands is an option for winning a game.
Replacing a card that you've had to play out onto the battlefield for drawing a card, is not considered card advantage.
It's going to need some sort of token or recurring graveyard strategy in order to meet the sacrifice requirements to actually gain advantage.
The thing that makes it viable is that its [+2] and not [+1] for the draw. Getting her up to 6 loyalty on the first turn is pretty nice.
I'm just saying you're going to get lots of players jamming her into their decks, thinking that she's good as a standalone, and then after game play realize using her [+2] is actually getting you behind on board.
Using her as a 4 mana removal is still strong and demands that opponents deal with her.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I do like they made the +2 a May ability rather than a Must ability. If you don't feel like saccing, no problem - you still get the loyalty.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||