A decent enough freebie off of Surveil cards. Even at uncommon this might not be easy to spam in sealed, but would be a lot better in draft. But on the other hand, if you over-packed your decks with these, you'd probably weaken yourself because they turn into Sea Eagles as soon as they hit the hand, which are basically dumpster-liner tier. Rare is probably good enough for it.
I mean, it’s almost always be a good pick no matter what you’re drafting, free is free. Getting 2-3 of these could be problematic.
Problematic for who? Even if you get out 4 of these for free in a draft game that's still just 4 1/1 fliers.
That benefit from mentor.
That can be used to pay for convoke.
That add - and create a 1/1 creature with flying to cards with Surveil.
I just think the probability of decks being able to utilize them as free creatures will be incredibly high. If I had 2 of these, and was in RBG, I’d play them both even if I didn’t deck and islands. Flying creatures are nothing to scoff at. Equipments, auras, abilities like mentor.
I mean, flipping one off of a Thought Erasure and getting rid of the biggest threat on turn 2, and then equipping with a card like Darksteel Axe or some 3cmc aura, or casting a 4 mana spell while convoking. That’s pretty good stuff.
Is it game breaking? No. But, it’s balanced for the limited environment it’s going to exist in.
That add - and create a 1/1 creature with flying to cards with Surveil.
I just think the probability of decks being able to utilize them as free creatures will be incredibly high. If I had 2 of these, and was in RBG, I’d play them both even if I didn’t deck and islands. Flying creatures are nothing to scoff at. Equipments, auras, abilities like mentor.
I mean, flipping one off of a Thought Erasure and getting rid of the biggest threat on turn 2, and then equipping with a card like Darksteel Axe or some 3cmc aura, or casting a 4 mana spell while convoking. That’s pretty good stuff.
Is it game breaking? No. But, it’s balanced for the limited environment it’s going to exist in.
So in your example only good things can ever happen from this? That's magical Christmas land if I've ever seen it. In your example you're willing to play two blue creatures in a three color deck with no blue mana, expect to self mill this every time, and also have everything your scenario(s) cooked up. Never do you think that you'll draw them with no blue mana, basically time walking yourself, anything happening to stop you from doing any of it, nor even being able to in the first place.
Next step: Panglacial Wurm at mythic rare? It's an OK card at uncommon, its effect isn't oppressive, needs some setup and if you draw it or have it in your opening hand, it's a pretty mediocre creature.
That benefit from mentor.
That can be used to pay for convoke.
That add - and create a 1/1 creature with flying to cards with Surveil.
I just think the probability of decks being able to utilize them as free creatures will be incredibly high. If I had 2 of these, and was in RBG, I’d play them both even if I didn’t deck and islands. Flying creatures are nothing to scoff at. Equipments, auras, abilities like mentor.
I mean, flipping one off of a Thought Erasure and getting rid of the biggest threat on turn 2, and then equipping with a card like Darksteel Axe or some 3cmc aura, or casting a 4 mana spell while convoking. That’s pretty good stuff.
Is it game breaking? No. But, it’s balanced for the limited environment it’s going to exist in.
If we apply your logic universally then every small creature with some form of evasion should be rare. Hell, Slippery Bogle should be Mythic since you can slap 20 enchantments on it and do well at a Grand Prix.
That's pretty much objectively wrong. This card does absolutely nothing to warrant that rarity. It doesn't shift the game in your favor when it comes down, it doesn't change the state of play, it doesn't have a significant impact on anything.
Not only is it not worth much but it's not even good in limited. At least opening a shockland will have value, this is pure trash that had a little value thanks to a small original run and even smaller original MM run. It's just added feel bad being upshifted.
The reason people dislike upshifts like this is probably 90% psychological. Yeah, it sucks opening this as a rare in Limited, but there are many rares in every set that you're not happy about opening in Limited. From a strict limited perspective, this being at uncommon doesn't do much, since it'll mostly be a bad card except for some corner cases, just like Isolate. It's better to have this as a rare and a solid roleplayer in the uncommon slot. Also I can see Ravnica having a lot of cycles being another reason this was moved to rare.
Yeah, seeing it upshifted sucks a bit, but there's not guarantee its slot would'nt have been filled with a Prism Array-tier sucky rare anyway. So overall there's not much loss here.
That benefit from mentor.
That can be used to pay for convoke.
That add - and create a 1/1 creature with flying to cards with Surveil.
I just think the probability of decks being able to utilize them as free creatures will be incredibly high. If I had 2 of these, and was in RBG, I’d play them both even if I didn’t deck and islands. Flying creatures are nothing to scoff at. Equipments, auras, abilities like mentor.
I mean, flipping one off of a Thought Erasure and getting rid of the biggest threat on turn 2, and then equipping with a card like Darksteel Axe or some 3cmc aura, or casting a 4 mana spell while convoking. That’s pretty good stuff.
Is it game breaking? No. But, it’s balanced for the limited environment it’s going to exist in.
If we apply your logic universally then every small creature with some form of evasion should be rare. Hell, Slippery Bogle should be Mythic since you can slap 20 enchantments on it and do well at a Grand Prix.
Universally is not how you evaluate rarity in a given product. For instance, Slippery Bogle would maybe be uncommon now (Wizards has realized Hexproof is a feel bad mechanic and has toned down how often it appears at low CMC), but as a common... fine. And if you print it in Ixilan (or Rivals)... still probably common/uncommon range.
But if you printed Slippery Swimmer. And made it exactly the same but its typeline was "Merfolk Pirate." It'd be rare. Just- no question, it'd be rare. An on tribe unanswerable low drop you can Explore up and just make a beast out of? Yeah, no, it'd be a rare.
In this case while I disagree with Narcomoeba being rare, I do understand how, in this set, putting it at rare is reasonable. Where printing it in, say, Ixilan it'd be Uncommon and nobody would care. Same goes for Dominaria (absolutely nobody cares about it there), because card rarities matter based on the context of where they are printed.
That's pretty much objectively wrong. This card does absolutely nothing to warrant that rarity. It doesn't shift the game in your favor when it comes down, it doesn't change the state of play, it doesn't have a significant impact on anything.
OK, so you're making the "power level should determine rarity" argument.
Here's a secret: it already does.
If WotC could make the power level of the game any more top-heavy than it already is, they would. The reason they don't is because it wouldn't matter: only about 20% of the rares / mythics in a typical set make any kind of dent in Standard play. You could shave 1 off the cost of every card in any given Standard metagame and it wouldn't increase the number of playable rares / mythics. In fact, it would probably do just the opposite, and propel one or two single deck archetypes to the top, reducing the number of playable cards in the metagame.
So, if 80% of your rares / mythics are just never going to be good enough for Standard, what do you do with those slots? You allot them to different kinds of players who don't care as much about Standard power level. Casual players, draft players, Timmy, Johnny, etc.
Now, that's not what I'm arguing is going on with Narcomoeba. I'm just saying that your litmus test for card rarity is wrong. I'm not sure that your evaluation of Narcomoeba's power level is any better. I think there's a good chance that WotC is positioning Narcomoeba for competitive Standard play. And, since a Sea Eagle (even a free Sea Eagle) is so utterly awful in draft, it really needs to be positioned at a rarity where drafters will not see it very much. WotC made the right call by upshifting it.
Maybe we should wait and see what else is in the set before we judge the rarity shift?
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
the power level of the game any more top-heavy than it already is, they would. The reason they don't is because it wouldn't matter: only about 20% of the rares / mythics in a typical set make any kind of dent in Standard play. You could shave 1 off the cost of every card in any given Standard metagame and it wouldn't increase the number of playable rares / mythics. In fact, it would probably do just the opposite, and propel one or two single deck archetypes to the top, reducing the number of playable cards in the metagame.
So, if 80% of your rares / mythics are just never going to be good enough for Standard, what do you do with those slots? You allot them to different kinds of players who don't care as much about Standard power level. Casual players, draft players, Timmy, Johnny, etc.
Now, that's not what I'm arguing is going on with Narcomoeba. I'm just saying that your litmus test for card rarity is wrong. I'm not sure that your evaluation of Narcomoeba's power level is any better. I think there's a good chance that WotC is positioning Narcomoeba for competitive Standard play. And, since a Sea Eagle (even a free Sea Eagle) is so utterly awful in draft, it really needs to be positioned at a rarity where drafters will not see it very much. WotC made the right call by upshifting it.
The TL;DR of what you just said is - "It's too bad for Limited so they made it rare so it won't clog up card pools."
I think I don't like that it's rare - but there are combo potentials with it. I could see it being used in a Desecrated Tomb deck if such a thing where to get off the ground - it does hit the Yard and then leave the Yard as part of it's trigger, which triggers Tomb. I don't know if it will ever be competitive - but then I didnt' think God Pharoah's Gift would be competitive either (I was so wrong)
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The TL;DR of what you just said is - "It's too bad for Limited so they made it rare so it won't clog up card pools."
I think the TL;DR is "There are lots of perfectly good justifications for placing a card at rare, because power level justifications can only really apply to a small number of rare cards." Followed by an example of just ONE of those justifications for Narcomoeba (keeping it out of Limited card pools).
Nobody forced WotC to put Narcomoeba in this set. So the fact that it's here, and it's rare, should get people thinking. The card doesn't appeal to draft players, the card doesn't appeal to casuals, so who is the card for? Obviously we can't evaluate it without seeing the rest of the set, but the positioning here is telling me that WotC expects it to be Constructed competitive. WotC has no reason to release a card that nobody wants.
The card that springs to mind the most is Delver of Secrets. When that first came out, basically everybody thought it was a joke. It was just Fugitive Wizard with an irrelevant transform ability. I think people are treating Narcomoeba the same way right now. Which is funny, since it's already proven itself in Legacy.
Universally is not how you evaluate rarity in a given product. For instance, Slippery Bogle would maybe be uncommon now (Wizards has realized Hexproof is a feel bad mechanic and has toned down how often it appears at low CMC), but as a common... fine. And if you print it in Ixilan (or Rivals)... still probably common/uncommon range.
But if you printed Slippery Swimmer. And made it exactly the same but its typeline was "Merfolk Pirate." It'd be rare. Just- no question, it'd be rare. An on tribe unanswerable low drop you can Explore up and just make a beast out of? Yeah, no, it'd be a rare.
So if you just change a card you can justify a rarity shift? FYI, that would be a new card.
So your argument is that the card is so crappy they needed it to be pulled less, but it's so good it can't be pulled too often? Really gets the noggin joggin'...
Nobody forced WotC to put Narcomoeba in this set. So the fact that it's here, and it's rare, should get people thinking. The card doesn't appeal to draft players, the card doesn't appeal to casuals, so who is the card for?
To give new art for Dredge players in Modern and Legacy? The deck is competitive in both formats, and narcomoeba is a staple in the deck.
I explained myself quite well, you refused to listen to the concept that a card's power level has to be weighed both universally and within the set and standard it's in. As you don't want to listen to anyone who disagrees with you, so I'm not quite seeing the point in trying to further explain myself.
There is some precedent for them up shifting Future Sight cards. Aven Mindcensor was up shifted to rare in Amonkhet. This was a $10 uncommon at one point, now it's $.50. I'm aware that some of the decline is due to it seeing less play, but it could come back into favor, at which point I'll be happy that I picked up my playset for $2.00. I see this as another reprint for Modern in a non-Masters set that will bring down the price of the card. If it was a Masters set, I understand why people would be upset. I don't see the reason here.
I... really... cannot fathom ANY reason for this rarity upshift beyond the solely, purely desire to keep safe the price in the secondary market. It's useless and stupid trying to find another reason.
Oh yes. Gotta keep that $2 card maintaining its value. Imagine the outcry if it dropped!!!
In all seriousness, upshifting is nothing new. Sure it sucks, but we don't know why it was upshifted. We don't know how powerful surveil will be. We don't know many cards from GRN.
I m realy sad they chose to make this a rare. If they were a uncommon, they would make limited and draft soo much more fun. As it is you will skip this until pink 3-4 on draft and only pick if you need a flyer/a chump block/or if you have some self mill. I think that if it was a uncommon, people would like it way more, draft it as a 1-3 picks and be more likely to try their luck trying to mill it out of a survey 1 card. 2/30 is way easier than a 1/30 to hit, and again, it would just make the spell they were casted off a bit better (and not game breaking). pelakka wurm rare shift is way more reasonable.
As a pauper player, I’m hoping we get some downgrades from uncommon as well.
I would like if wizards made some commun shifts from rares too, maybe in online sets ( if they don't want the outrage of evil collectors). I don't say this from meta cards in modern, legacy, etc. But from the "intro pack rare" that is not powerfull enought to see play in "eternal" and old formats but could be nice to have in pauper.
exemple: i would love to see Anthousa, Setessan Hero , Tymaret, the Murder King, Triad of Fates being commons on a online set or in a masters set. I would like to try Tymaret-engine and see what those other cards that-didn't-saw-almost-anyplay would be able to do in pauper.
Shhhh, don't give them ideas
Your logic is entirely flawed.
That benefit from mentor.
That can be used to pay for convoke.
That add - and create a 1/1 creature with flying to cards with Surveil.
I just think the probability of decks being able to utilize them as free creatures will be incredibly high. If I had 2 of these, and was in RBG, I’d play them both even if I didn’t deck and islands. Flying creatures are nothing to scoff at. Equipments, auras, abilities like mentor.
I mean, flipping one off of a Thought Erasure and getting rid of the biggest threat on turn 2, and then equipping with a card like Darksteel Axe or some 3cmc aura, or casting a 4 mana spell while convoking. That’s pretty good stuff.
Is it game breaking? No. But, it’s balanced for the limited environment it’s going to exist in.
Do you think that rarity-assignment should be purely a gameplay consideration?
In that case, it should DEFINITELY be rare.
So in your example only good things can ever happen from this? That's magical Christmas land if I've ever seen it. In your example you're willing to play two blue creatures in a three color deck with no blue mana, expect to self mill this every time, and also have everything your scenario(s) cooked up. Never do you think that you'll draw them with no blue mana, basically time walking yourself, anything happening to stop you from doing any of it, nor even being able to in the first place.
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If we apply your logic universally then every small creature with some form of evasion should be rare. Hell, Slippery Bogle should be Mythic since you can slap 20 enchantments on it and do well at a Grand Prix.
Yes, of course. If WotC won't even publicly acknowledge the secondary market then they don't get to determine rarity based on secondary market values.
That's pretty much objectively wrong. This card does absolutely nothing to warrant that rarity. It doesn't shift the game in your favor when it comes down, it doesn't change the state of play, it doesn't have a significant impact on anything.
The reason people dislike upshifts like this is probably 90% psychological. Yeah, it sucks opening this as a rare in Limited, but there are many rares in every set that you're not happy about opening in Limited. From a strict limited perspective, this being at uncommon doesn't do much, since it'll mostly be a bad card except for some corner cases, just like Isolate. It's better to have this as a rare and a solid roleplayer in the uncommon slot. Also I can see Ravnica having a lot of cycles being another reason this was moved to rare.
Yeah, seeing it upshifted sucks a bit, but there's not guarantee its slot would'nt have been filled with a Prism Array-tier sucky rare anyway. So overall there's not much loss here.
You complain when the bad cards are rare...
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Universally is not how you evaluate rarity in a given product. For instance, Slippery Bogle would maybe be uncommon now (Wizards has realized Hexproof is a feel bad mechanic and has toned down how often it appears at low CMC), but as a common... fine. And if you print it in Ixilan (or Rivals)... still probably common/uncommon range.
But if you printed Slippery Swimmer. And made it exactly the same but its typeline was "Merfolk Pirate." It'd be rare. Just- no question, it'd be rare. An on tribe unanswerable low drop you can Explore up and just make a beast out of? Yeah, no, it'd be a rare.
In this case while I disagree with Narcomoeba being rare, I do understand how, in this set, putting it at rare is reasonable. Where printing it in, say, Ixilan it'd be Uncommon and nobody would care. Same goes for Dominaria (absolutely nobody cares about it there), because card rarities matter based on the context of where they are printed.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Here's a secret: it already does.
If WotC could make the power level of the game any more top-heavy than it already is, they would. The reason they don't is because it wouldn't matter: only about 20% of the rares / mythics in a typical set make any kind of dent in Standard play. You could shave 1 off the cost of every card in any given Standard metagame and it wouldn't increase the number of playable rares / mythics. In fact, it would probably do just the opposite, and propel one or two single deck archetypes to the top, reducing the number of playable cards in the metagame.
So, if 80% of your rares / mythics are just never going to be good enough for Standard, what do you do with those slots? You allot them to different kinds of players who don't care as much about Standard power level. Casual players, draft players, Timmy, Johnny, etc.
Now, that's not what I'm arguing is going on with Narcomoeba. I'm just saying that your litmus test for card rarity is wrong. I'm not sure that your evaluation of Narcomoeba's power level is any better. I think there's a good chance that WotC is positioning Narcomoeba for competitive Standard play. And, since a Sea Eagle (even a free Sea Eagle) is so utterly awful in draft, it really needs to be positioned at a rarity where drafters will not see it very much. WotC made the right call by upshifting it.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
The TL;DR of what you just said is - "It's too bad for Limited so they made it rare so it won't clog up card pools."
I think I don't like that it's rare - but there are combo potentials with it. I could see it being used in a Desecrated Tomb deck if such a thing where to get off the ground - it does hit the Yard and then leave the Yard as part of it's trigger, which triggers Tomb. I don't know if it will ever be competitive - but then I didnt' think God Pharoah's Gift would be competitive either (I was so wrong)
Nobody forced WotC to put Narcomoeba in this set. So the fact that it's here, and it's rare, should get people thinking. The card doesn't appeal to draft players, the card doesn't appeal to casuals, so who is the card for? Obviously we can't evaluate it without seeing the rest of the set, but the positioning here is telling me that WotC expects it to be Constructed competitive. WotC has no reason to release a card that nobody wants.
The card that springs to mind the most is Delver of Secrets. When that first came out, basically everybody thought it was a joke. It was just Fugitive Wizard with an irrelevant transform ability. I think people are treating Narcomoeba the same way right now. Which is funny, since it's already proven itself in Legacy.
So if you just change a card you can justify a rarity shift? FYI, that would be a new card.
Why? What additional information do you have?
OK, so you're making the "power level should determine rarity" argument.
Here's a secret: it already does.[/quote]
If that's the case then hating this indefensible rarity shift makes perfect sense. What the hell is going on here...
So your argument is that the card is so crappy they needed it to be pulled less, but it's so good it can't be pulled too often? Really gets the noggin joggin'...
To give new art for Dredge players in Modern and Legacy? The deck is competitive in both formats, and narcomoeba is a staple in the deck.
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It's rather boring.
I'll defend wotc's decisions on a LOT of things but I will not defend the decision to upshift this to rare. Come on, guys.
Oh yes. Gotta keep that $2 card maintaining its value. Imagine the outcry if it dropped!!!
In all seriousness, upshifting is nothing new. Sure it sucks, but we don't know why it was upshifted. We don't know how powerful surveil will be. We don't know many cards from GRN.
They may exist in Iquatana but this doesn't mean they are not present in other planes.
I would like if wizards made some commun shifts from rares too, maybe in online sets ( if they don't want the outrage of evil collectors). I don't say this from meta cards in modern, legacy, etc. But from the "intro pack rare" that is not powerfull enought to see play in "eternal" and old formats but could be nice to have in pauper.
exemple: i would love to see Anthousa, Setessan Hero , Tymaret, the Murder King, Triad of Fates being commons on a online set or in a masters set. I would like to try Tymaret-engine and see what those other cards that-didn't-saw-almost-anyplay would be able to do in pauper.