Or we won't get one next year because people won't buy this metaphorical piece of garbage. It's sort of a catch 22 moment. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Only real option we have is to voice our disappointment to the various WotC reps.
It's really up to them to make their product great if they want us to buy it in the first place. They have enough experienced staff in place to easily create and test something that can satisfy most of us. I can't wrap my head around the fact that they still screw up like this after 25 years (Masters 25 is another prime example). Isn't there someone who understands what we want? I get that they can't include every card that we wish (such as Top) but there is no excuse to still print decks like these. Wake up, WotC!
I really like most of the new cards. However, these are otherwise the worst-designed set of precon decks since C13, maybe even the original C11. It's sad, because the Commander sets were the one product that Wizards has managed to get consistently right through the years. C14 through C17 are all great. How they managed to fall off the rails so hard is a mystery.
I'm pretty sure that a big reason why we didn't get any of the good tutors or Soothsaying or anything else like that is because Wizards doesn't like printing large amounts of deck-shuffling cards for game length reasons.
Because that actually is a thing to worry about in Commander. In multiplayer Commander, especially.
The main cool reprints were spoiled yesterday -- the Mirage fetches are decent (but when are we getting a reprint of Bad River, and seeing them again makes me think -- why not print these in all of the relevant Commander precons? They're fairly cheap already and decent enough if Wizards doesn't want to give us expensive fetches in these and basically, rrrrrrgh.) I guess Unwinding Clock is nice to see back, though.
No real comment on the mana bases, it feels like they're always garbo in these things anyway.
Also what on earth is that Windgrace deck trying to be anyway. My only hope is that Windgrace himself is pretty cheap and I can find a good use for him. I mean, there's a small number of other cards that are neat, I guess, but not enough to justify buying the whole precons.
It feels like WotC didn't remember the lesson they learned from battlebond: Select reprints that actually fit and/or that people actually want. Would it have been difficult to throw in a card that animates your lands (say Verdant Touch, which is in dire need of a reprint or, heck, even Living Lands) in the jund deck, with a decent number of awaken spells and landfall cards? Not to mention even a few manlands? I doubt people would have complained if we got Stalking Stones and the three Urza block manlands in the deck instead of what we got.
Or actually put a number of half-decent auras in the Bant deck, it's not like there is a lack of playable auras in those three colors. Some of which could benefit from a reprint. Heck, even just the inclusion of Rancor would have been an improvement. Or ten or so creatures with bestow.
I have no real complaints about the Esper or Izzet decks, other than that the mana base is poor. But at least we didn't get the friggin vivid-lands again.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I just realized, they didn't even introduce a new mechanic this year! I'm not counting "Commander Ninjutsu", that's a single card twist on an existing mechanic.
The only goods ones to pick-up as a deck are the enchantment and the artifact ones, the other two are just singleton shopping. Like I really want Xantcha, Sleeper Agent, Treasure Nabber, and Varchild, Betrayer of Kjeldor for my five-color "Hugs and Slugs" deck but I can't justify buying Nature's Vengeance for just Xantcha.
I just realized, they didn't even introduce a new mechanic this year! I'm not counting "Commander Ninjutsu", that's a single card twist on an existing mechanic.
I just realized, they didn't even introduce a new mechanic this year! I'm not counting "Commander Ninjutsu", that's a single card twist on an existing mechanic.
Good. I'm glad they didn't. They used this year to actually introduce things Commander players have spent years begging for. Past characters, Ninja Commander, Enchantress commander, Odds-Matters Commander, UR Artifact Commander, More Planeswalker Commanders, Red dealing with Enchantments and Artifacts, Artifact Draw Options for Mono-White and Mono-Red, Commander Ninjitsu, Esper Zombie commander, etc.
I prefer that to locking a sizable chunk of new cards by some stupid new mechanic and restricting everything by it for no purpose whatsoever just to build cards bottom-up from that trash. Screw that. At this rate I hope we never see new mechanics in these again if we can finally get awesome designs like we did this year, with cards like Arixmethes and Xantcha doing off the wall stuff.
The price spike issue is real here. The manabases should have worse "tango" lands that are worth little. Three would be only a hair different but different enough that they are total bulk bin. And also the checklands, they could be worse bulk bin cards as well. They could require two, be and/or, be "other", and have the land types themselves. This then would have tension, would build more or less out of basics, but three colors works well, and four and five are possible. The latter are a somewhat established Standard-set policy, and this would be appropriate here. And also the Mirage fetchlands, with an activation of 1, where the land is tapped if you don't pay the 1. Would all be bad, would all be $0.25 cent cards and could move on to more clever value distribution. This would be very clever and you just have to wonder sometimes. (Actually, probably just all 10 Mirage-fetch. This is a similar to drop value of other cards by reprint like Masters-Jace, where those were only going to go up and the MSRP can be ignorable. Where EV includes "we're going to do this each time" as a standard idea, those can be treated as also being worth $0.25.) Not often, but this is possible. The Rupture Spire ones could be 3-color.
"Warning: Um, warning. This is going to be a game state violation. And a taking extra turns and drawing extra cards violation, pretty much, a whole bunch of violations. Look at me, I'm the DCI."
The reason that these decklists are underwhelming, in addition to the lack of good reprints, is because they all play one-dimensionally due to the lack of reprint of cards that make each archetype stand out.
For example, for artifacts, even the 2016 Breya deck came with Daretti, Scrap Savant as well as Trash for Treasure or Goblin Welder. These are easy reprints that aren't worth much but contribute heavily to the identity of what blue-red artifacts can do. Sure, you can also throw a Fabricate in there, but it makes the deck unique in a way with those two mentioned cards alone.
Lands doesn't have a Burgeoning, Ghost Quarter, or even Ramunap Excavator. Those are critical misses with respect to the identity of the power of lands decks, which is to maximize the power of utility lands. There should be more utility lands and even a Realms Uncharted would be fine.
Enchantments can do funky things by just having them sit there. They uniquely could have thrown in Skybind and Starfield of Nyx because cards like those make enchantment decks stand out. An Idyllic Tutor would not have hurt.
As for the last one, well they could have thrown a Soothsaying and a Future Sight to help with the theme. Miracles are pretty neat but the decks seem pretty reliant on the commander. If they wanted a "weak tutor" that promoted the deck's focus of planning ahead then Long-Term Plans would be a good one.
As it stands, most of the decks are not interesting out of the box.
I will say the lack of at least Rhystic Study, Sterling Grove or Greater Auramancy (or any combination thereof) is painful. At least the latter two, since the Bant deck has a lot of draw. Greater Auramancy lacking is the worst offense of all. That card has been unobtainable for years.
People are calling the decks trash, but please be fair.
New cards = Among the best, if not the best, of any Commander product to date, IMO.
Well the problem is they increased the price cause these decks are suppose to be stronger (which you figure would mean more value since better cards tend to cost more). And yet the reprints are lacking...Land deck has no Titania, Omnath, heck nothing to even turn lands into creatures really etc. Enchantment decks as no auras of note besides Totem Armor and none of the enchantments you mentioned. Sure it can draw how about some wincons? Top is banned in Legacy you figure you could get Sensei's in the top Deck matters but no...and you only get terminus as a pre existing miracles.
And still crappy land bases the easiest fix...why WOTC refuses to print some average to above average land bases for these decks I will never understand.
So the question arises would these decks beat last years deck?
This is the 2nd time I've heard this. It has to be false. The idea of printing "better" cards at a higher price is absurd. You can buy Uno for $5, but if you want GOOD UNO, you need to pay $40? That's nonsense!
Did someone at WOTC actually say this? To do so would be a fireable offense, I think, as it would be "pay to win" and the very nature of game destroying.
I will say the lack of at least Rhystic Study, Sterling Grove or Greater Auramancy (or any combination thereof) is painful. At least the latter two, since the Bant deck has a lot of draw. Greater Auramancy lacking is the worst offense of all. That card has been unobtainable for years.
People are calling the decks trash, but please be fair.
New cards = Among the best, if not the best, of any Commander product to date, IMO.
Reprints = Worst value since C11.
Even C11 had better reprints. Austere Command, Ghostly Prison, Martyr's Bond, Path to Exile, Fact or Fiction (pricy at the time), Propaganda, Windfall (at the time), Attrition, Avatar of Woe (at the time), Grave Pact, Living Death, Red Akroma (at the time), Anger, Insurrection, Ruination, Eternal Witness, Garruk Wildspeaker, Harmonize (at the time)... and that's just the mono-color cards.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
That's every reprint above $3. That's less than any other year of Commander pre-cons, and by a decent margin.
And half of those cards won't hold that value in 3 weeks.
I was so, so, so trying to find a way to justify spending $40 on the Jund deck, but it is really looking like the first year I don't buy a commander set... There's just no point. There's just not enough value outside of Lord Windgrace and Xantcha.
I don't think there is any justification to buy the Jund Lands Deck...it fails on every level buy the singles.
I mean even if you are a Windgrace Fan its like being a Jaya Fan you wait what 10 years to get a Walker and they serve you garbage. Overcosted and Underpowered...as a Teferi fan I am lucky two winners and the standard garbage Planeswalker Deck Card.
That makes it worse they raise the price then print less value then ever before....
I don't think there is any justification to buy the Jund Lands Deck...it fails on every level buy the singles.
I mean even if you are a Windgrace Fan its like being a Jaya Fan you wait what 10 years to get a Walker and they serve you garbage. Overcosted and Underpowered...as a Teferi fan I am lucky two winners and the standard garbage Planeswalker Deck Card.
That makes it worse they raise the price then print less value then ever before....
Jaya isn't THAT bad. She's no all-star, but she is perfectly serviceable.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
The reprints are overall throw-away garbage cards that only total newbies can remotely need.
For anybody else its just utter trash cards.
Throwing in 1 money card per deck would have been easily justified (Dark Confidant in top matters anyone ? Life from the Loam in lands matters ? Stuff like that, just 1 card would be enough in value).
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As it is, the NEW cards are the sellers.
But they are the BONUS , these decks should sell on the reprints and the decks themselves.
They still WILL sell, even just for the good standing the last bunch of decks made, people just assume they are worth it and "blindly" buy into them.
Even in this sad state its still pretty much the best pre-constructed product they make, and that tells a lot in this pitty iteration.
Garbage may be overstating it but I stand by Overcosted and Underpowered for Jaya.
Still Windgrace does nothing to make Jund Lands better it gives you some draw, lets you reoccur some lands and kills a measly 6 permanents for 6 cat tokens. I especially hate the Ultiamte, it has nothing to do with Lands. It has nothing to do with lands...how about destroy all artifacts then create a number of elementals equal to the lands you control with Haste.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Because that actually is a thing to worry about in Commander. In multiplayer Commander, especially.
The main cool reprints were spoiled yesterday -- the Mirage fetches are decent (but when are we getting a reprint of Bad River, and seeing them again makes me think -- why not print these in all of the relevant Commander precons? They're fairly cheap already and decent enough if Wizards doesn't want to give us expensive fetches in these and basically, rrrrrrgh.) I guess Unwinding Clock is nice to see back, though.
No real comment on the mana bases, it feels like they're always garbo in these things anyway.
Also what on earth is that Windgrace deck trying to be anyway. My only hope is that Windgrace himself is pretty cheap and I can find a good use for him. I mean, there's a small number of other cards that are neat, I guess, but not enough to justify buying the whole precons.
Or actually put a number of half-decent auras in the Bant deck, it's not like there is a lack of playable auras in those three colors. Some of which could benefit from a reprint. Heck, even just the inclusion of Rancor would have been an improvement. Or ten or so creatures with bestow.
I have no real complaints about the Esper or Izzet decks, other than that the mana base is poor. But at least we didn't get the friggin vivid-lands again.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
2011: Join forces
2013: Tempting offer
2014: Lieutenants (and PW's as commanders)
2015: Experience counters, Myriad
2016: Partner, Undaunted
2017: Eminence
2018: Half-assing it
Technically they could've coined "Commander Storm" for that cycle but they opted against using a keyword for some reason
I prefer that to locking a sizable chunk of new cards by some stupid new mechanic and restricting everything by it for no purpose whatsoever just to build cards bottom-up from that trash. Screw that. At this rate I hope we never see new mechanics in these again if we can finally get awesome designs like we did this year, with cards like Arixmethes and Xantcha doing off the wall stuff.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
What is justification for not printing manabases that are not crap?
What I do mind is everything I talk about in a post on a similar thread, shown below.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
People are calling the decks trash, but please be fair.
New cards = Among the best, if not the best, of any Commander product to date, IMO.
Reprints = Worst value since C11.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
And still crappy land bases the easiest fix...why WOTC refuses to print some average to above average land bases for these decks I will never understand.
So the question arises would these decks beat last years deck?
Did someone at WOTC actually say this? To do so would be a fireable offense, I think, as it would be "pay to win" and the very nature of game destroying.
But there's still a few decent reprints anyway though and definitely value above the price you buy the deck s for.
By the way speculation to why life from the loam is not a reprints I think it's just simply being reprinted in one of the 3 ravnica sets
Even C11 had better reprints. Austere Command, Ghostly Prison, Martyr's Bond, Path to Exile, Fact or Fiction (pricy at the time), Propaganda, Windfall (at the time), Attrition, Avatar of Woe (at the time), Grave Pact, Living Death, Red Akroma (at the time), Anger, Insurrection, Ruination, Eternal Witness, Garruk Wildspeaker, Harmonize (at the time)... and that's just the mono-color cards.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Not really this time.
Enchantress's Presence $11
Bear Umbra $10
Entreat the Angels $5
Blasphemous Act $4
Avenger of Zendikar $4
Hydra Omnivore $4
Duplicant $3
Mimic Vat $3
That's every reprint above $3. That's less than any other year of Commander pre-cons, and by a decent margin.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
And half of those cards won't hold that value in 3 weeks.
I was so, so, so trying to find a way to justify spending $40 on the Jund deck, but it is really looking like the first year I don't buy a commander set... There's just no point. There's just not enough value outside of Lord Windgrace and Xantcha.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/commander-2018-decklists
And those are MTGGoldfish prices (usually inflated), before release. Imagine how much those numbers are going to drop after that release?
I mean even if you are a Windgrace Fan its like being a Jaya Fan you wait what 10 years to get a Walker and they serve you garbage. Overcosted and Underpowered...as a Teferi fan I am lucky two winners and the standard garbage Planeswalker Deck Card.
That makes it worse they raise the price then print less value then ever before....
They won't bring Dredge back so no reprint of Life from the Loam
Jaya isn't THAT bad. She's no all-star, but she is perfectly serviceable.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
For anybody else its just utter trash cards.
Throwing in 1 money card per deck would have been easily justified (Dark Confidant in top matters anyone ? Life from the Loam in lands matters ? Stuff like that, just 1 card would be enough in value).
----
As it is, the NEW cards are the sellers.
But they are the BONUS , these decks should sell on the reprints and the decks themselves.
They still WILL sell, even just for the good standing the last bunch of decks made, people just assume they are worth it and "blindly" buy into them.
Even in this sad state its still pretty much the best pre-constructed product they make, and that tells a lot in this pitty iteration.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Still Windgrace does nothing to make Jund Lands better it gives you some draw, lets you reoccur some lands and kills a measly 6 permanents for 6 cat tokens. I especially hate the Ultiamte, it has nothing to do with Lands. It has nothing to do with lands...how about destroy all artifacts then create a number of elementals equal to the lands you control with Haste.