Yeah perhaps we are overfocused on cost...I think most of us could pick out cards that keep the cost of the deck on release at about 120 USD that would fit the theme. There are what have a dozen youtube channels that pump out budget decks. Doesn't fix all the problems cause some new cards looking at you JUND LANDS are off theme anyway.
Jund is just so bad. I think the best way to fix the mana-base to even be on theme would involve the cycling lands from Amonkhet, probably the battle lands from BFZ that match up, and ash barrens. Thankfully they do have the budget fetches in the deck so that helps.
I'm in an odd limbo with this in that the new cards are just so awesome, but the lack of accessibility to certain others (just now I noticed the sore absence of Merchant Scroll) makes me feel disappointed. There does seem to be a small pool of cards they dip into that I think they should branch out from. Give new borders to older cards, make certain overdue staples less expensive. It doesn't have to be a handful of $20 cards to matter. The collective value of a dozen $2-3 cards could make all the difference, especially for older cards that all look like they've been found in a dryer but have to be used because of no reprint.
Yeah, the reason this commander set is bad is due to the fact the entire worth of the set is bound to the new cards. There are no known good staples in the decks that have value outside of oddballs that only see play in a limited selection of decks. The entire tune of the crowd would be miles different if each of the decks had at least one good card. The suits at WoTC want to reprint all those good cards in box sets next summer, apparently. They might do overload mechanics again in the upcoming Rav sets so that might mean Cyclonic Rift and Chromatic Lantern are in those sets.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Overall deck designs: 2/10 (failed miserably with Jund and Esper IMO)
If they say they are going to have a theme - then they should go all out on a theme. Artifact, land, enchantment themes are great but the execution is really bad.
1. There are obvious cards that should be there but isn't. Wurmcoil Engine, Phyrexian Processor, and precursor Golem are much more interesting token makers than the ones that are already in. The land deck have clear missing cards like Hypno Toad, Titania, Ramunap Excavator, Constant Mists, Crop Rotation, the list can go on. Enchantments are missing Sterling Grove and some of the Enchantresses. Esper needs more Tutors (Mystical or Vess)
2. Mana base is really bad. Izzet is almost basic lands. Why can't it have cheap duals (check, pain, tango)? Jund lands could contain dual man lands, with a nice opportinity to add in a land toolbox with Crop Rotation or Sylvan Scrying. Esper should have all three temples instead of the strictly inferior New Benalia. Cloud key would have been a perfect reprint for the Bant deck as well.
I think the decks are fine to be designed to allow improvement and customization, but some of these basic includes in card synergy and mana base should be supplied for the Commander Newbie.
Design of New cards : 8/10
On the plus side, the new cards are very interesting. Almost all foils are decent build around commanders, with the Ninja standing out, funnily enough. There are also some great throwbacks that have interesting designs such as Varchild and Brudiclad. Commander Storm are powerful without being playable up by other formats, e.g. price will not be jacked up, so I think this is beneficial for EDH players.
Value for Money: 7/10 (roughly same as last year)
I looked at MTG Goldfish and the price seems to be slightly higher than the decks from last year. So it is a decent buy for newbies who does not have the "jank reprints" yet, but also you have some new cards with value that you can trade off. value for money is indeed tricky because we cannot expect too much of a value lest the decks will be taken apart by resellers. Currently the decks are in 88-150 range, which is not bad for MSRP $40.
Of course this will change (deck playability, price) over the next few weeks but overall I give it a 5/5. I didn't rate the previous decks before but I agree with the consensus that this is one of the worst batches of Commander releases, which I attribute to the unfocused deck designs and lack of some expected staples.
I really feel like WotC should not have revealed the deck themes in that video. I think a lot of people latched on to that idea and let their imaginations get the best of them. They should have just revealed some art and left it at that. Then, the next week, start the previews.
I really feel like WotC should not have revealed the deck themes in that video. I think a lot of people latched on to that idea and let their imaginations get the best of them. They should have just revealed some art and left it at that. Then, the next week, start the previews.
I really feel like WotC should not have revealed the deck themes in that video. I think a lot of people latched on to that idea and let their imaginations get the best of them. They should have just revealed some art and left it at that. Then, the next week, start the previews.
No. They should have amde better decks.
You say that like these ideas are mutually exclusive.
All of these cards (except Herald) are auto-includes in a land matters deck... How could they drop the ball so hard on reprints?
The Jund deck's theme is not Lands Matter. That's the problem. Their stated deck themes do not really match up with what the decks are doing or the cards they included.
I really feel like WotC should not have revealed the deck themes in that video. I think a lot of people latched on to that idea and let their imaginations get the best of them. They should have just revealed some art and left it at that. Then, the next week, start the previews.
No. They should have amde better decks.
It can be both. But since the decks were done and printed, they should have controlled their message better.
All of these cards (except Herald) are auto-includes in a land matters deck... How could they drop the ball so hard on reprints?
You do realize the cards you listed have at least a 40 dollar value, right? Right now the C18 decks have a listed value of 88.29 to 148.45. All of the C18 decks are currently valued more than the C17 decks were around this time last year.
I really feel like WotC should not have revealed the deck themes in that video. I think a lot of people latched on to that idea and let their imaginations get the best of them. They should have just revealed some art and left it at that. Then, the next week, start the previews.
Problem is that with the Jund deck, and even the Esper one, if you can't call it the "Land deck" then what do you call it? That's my biggest issue. If you can't call it that then what is the deck? Jund and Esper just seem like....well a Jund and Esper deck with no real synergies nor cohesion.
Bant? Enchantments, easily
U/R? It deals with artifacts, but also has a token subtheme.
You can call these two decks what they are, but for Jund and Esper apparently they really aren't what we were told, but instead they are.....?
I really feel like WotC should not have revealed the deck themes in that video. I think a lot of people latched on to that idea and let their imaginations get the best of them. They should have just revealed some art and left it at that. Then, the next week, start the previews.
Problem is that with the Jund deck, and even the Esper one, if you can't call it the "Land deck" then what do you call it? That's my biggest issue. If you can't call it that then what is the deck? Jund and Esper just seem like....well a Jund and Esper deck with no real synergies nor cohesion.
Bant? Enchantments, easily
U/R? It deals with artifacts, but also has a token subtheme.
You can call these two decks what they are, but for Jund and Esper apparently they really aren't what we were told, but instead they are.....?
You never want to look at EDH decks as to how they're priced on MTGGoldfish prior to release. You want to examine price levels 3 weeks after they've been released.
The problem with the jund deck (and I'm only talking Jund here, couldn't care less about the rest) is that they printed a bunch of useless cards which will not retain their inherent value in 3 months. Windgrace will fall down. Xantcha will decrease slightly. The other 2 generals and the original cards in the deck (outside of Turntimber Sower and maybe Windgrace's Judgment) are $1 or less bulk. Avenger will fall down $1. The rest of the cards will go to $1 or below $1 except Sol Ring.
This is an extremely low value deck that basically tells informed consumers "hey -- buy on the singles market, as there's not much evergreen value here." If they had better reprint product (and I wasn't saying reprint all the ones I listed at the same time, just one of them would have helped justify) so that I know that these cards will have a higher value 3 months down the road, I'd be satisfied. But I'm not, hence why I was flustered that WOTC didn't take this opportunity to increase supply of one or two more expensive (essential lands deck) cards and curb costs on land decks that people will actually build.
The current prices of the decks are inflated. The market will even itself out as more uninformed players buy product and trade in materials, and we should see realistic "early life" deck prices in 3 weeks.
Just to make things clear, was this product designed on the two year cycle or the newer one? Right now there are products that got rushed out on short notice like battlebond and the challenger decks, and there are the remnants of the old design team that can be seen through the final duel decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Jund is just so bad. I think the best way to fix the mana-base to even be on theme would involve the cycling lands from Amonkhet, probably the battle lands from BFZ that match up, and ash barrens. Thankfully they do have the budget fetches in the deck so that helps.
Yeah, the reason this commander set is bad is due to the fact the entire worth of the set is bound to the new cards. There are no known good staples in the decks that have value outside of oddballs that only see play in a limited selection of decks. The entire tune of the crowd would be miles different if each of the decks had at least one good card. The suits at WoTC want to reprint all those good cards in box sets next summer, apparently. They might do overload mechanics again in the upcoming Rav sets so that might mean Cyclonic Rift and Chromatic Lantern are in those sets.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Overall deck designs: 2/10 (failed miserably with Jund and Esper IMO)
If they say they are going to have a theme - then they should go all out on a theme. Artifact, land, enchantment themes are great but the execution is really bad.
1. There are obvious cards that should be there but isn't. Wurmcoil Engine, Phyrexian Processor, and precursor Golem are much more interesting token makers than the ones that are already in. The land deck have clear missing cards like Hypno Toad, Titania, Ramunap Excavator, Constant Mists, Crop Rotation, the list can go on. Enchantments are missing Sterling Grove and some of the Enchantresses. Esper needs more Tutors (Mystical or Vess)
2. Mana base is really bad. Izzet is almost basic lands. Why can't it have cheap duals (check, pain, tango)? Jund lands could contain dual man lands, with a nice opportinity to add in a land toolbox with Crop Rotation or Sylvan Scrying. Esper should have all three temples instead of the strictly inferior New Benalia. Cloud key would have been a perfect reprint for the Bant deck as well.
I think the decks are fine to be designed to allow improvement and customization, but some of these basic includes in card synergy and mana base should be supplied for the Commander Newbie.
Design of New cards : 8/10
On the plus side, the new cards are very interesting. Almost all foils are decent build around commanders, with the Ninja standing out, funnily enough. There are also some great throwbacks that have interesting designs such as Varchild and Brudiclad. Commander Storm are powerful without being playable up by other formats, e.g. price will not be jacked up, so I think this is beneficial for EDH players.
Value for Money: 7/10 (roughly same as last year)
I looked at MTG Goldfish and the price seems to be slightly higher than the decks from last year. So it is a decent buy for newbies who does not have the "jank reprints" yet, but also you have some new cards with value that you can trade off. value for money is indeed tricky because we cannot expect too much of a value lest the decks will be taken apart by resellers. Currently the decks are in 88-150 range, which is not bad for MSRP $40.
Of course this will change (deck playability, price) over the next few weeks but overall I give it a 5/5. I didn't rate the previous decks before but I agree with the consensus that this is one of the worst batches of Commander releases, which I attribute to the unfocused deck designs and lack of some expected staples.
No. They should have amde better decks.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa -- $6 on TCG
Tireless Tracker -- $9 on TCG
Titania, Protector of Argoth -- $6
Herald of Leshrac -- $4
Exploration -- $21 (used to be under $20 before the decklist was spoiled)
All of these cards (except Herald) are auto-includes in a land matters deck... How could they drop the ball so hard on reprints?
The Jund deck's theme is not Lands Matter. That's the problem. Their stated deck themes do not really match up with what the decks are doing or the cards they included.
It can be both. But since the decks were done and printed, they should have controlled their message better.
You do realize the cards you listed have at least a 40 dollar value, right? Right now the C18 decks have a listed value of 88.29 to 148.45. All of the C18 decks are currently valued more than the C17 decks were around this time last year.
Problem is that with the Jund deck, and even the Esper one, if you can't call it the "Land deck" then what do you call it? That's my biggest issue. If you can't call it that then what is the deck? Jund and Esper just seem like....well a Jund and Esper deck with no real synergies nor cohesion.
Bant? Enchantments, easily
U/R? It deals with artifacts, but also has a token subtheme.
You can call these two decks what they are, but for Jund and Esper apparently they really aren't what we were told, but instead they are.....?
Jund and Esper good stuff?
Not sure about that because the good stuff wasn't reprinted.
The problem with the jund deck (and I'm only talking Jund here, couldn't care less about the rest) is that they printed a bunch of useless cards which will not retain their inherent value in 3 months. Windgrace will fall down. Xantcha will decrease slightly. The other 2 generals and the original cards in the deck (outside of Turntimber Sower and maybe Windgrace's Judgment) are $1 or less bulk. Avenger will fall down $1. The rest of the cards will go to $1 or below $1 except Sol Ring.
This is an extremely low value deck that basically tells informed consumers "hey -- buy on the singles market, as there's not much evergreen value here." If they had better reprint product (and I wasn't saying reprint all the ones I listed at the same time, just one of them would have helped justify) so that I know that these cards will have a higher value 3 months down the road, I'd be satisfied. But I'm not, hence why I was flustered that WOTC didn't take this opportunity to increase supply of one or two more expensive (essential lands deck) cards and curb costs on land decks that people will actually build.
The current prices of the decks are inflated. The market will even itself out as more uninformed players buy product and trade in materials, and we should see realistic "early life" deck prices in 3 weeks.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!