Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
You joke but Rift at least is a good spell to dump the mana your suppose to generate from a Land Deck into. Instead we got a JUND Deck which cannot animate lands, create elemental, has off brand commanders, no landfall triggering and few great creature and spell payoffs to dump your mana in. Your best creature eats Dragon decks so that is nice I guess.
Considering Yuriko is one of the most expensive and best selling cards out of these decks, I hope WOTC get the hint that we should Return to Kamigawa. But as I always say, just give me the remaining Kamigawa novel characters as cards and I'll gladly wait.
Anyway, enough complaining. Let's be productive. When I rallied everyone to vote for characters, we got 4 Legends off the list in this one product. Tawnos, Xantcha, Arixmethes, Windgrace.
I say we brainstorm a list of what cards require reprints for Commander and email it to Gavin, Maro and Ken. Someone with a better attention span than me start a thread and amass the list. Off the top of my head, I can think of these:
Scroll Rack
Cyclonic Rift
Rhystic Study
Merchant Scroll
Sylvan Tutor
Worldly Tutor
Greater Auramancy
Sterling Grove
Soothsaying
This list is somewhat silly, though your idea is a good idea to voice community opinions.
The chances of them printing anything of high value, let’s say $15 or more, is quite slim. I would also never expect a tutor in a preconstructed deck, just due to the fact that they aren’t overly casual. Instead, the cards that need to be focused on are the cards that are $3-$6 and fit the themes of decks that are being designed.
Why doesn’t the artifact deck have a Solemn Simulacrum? That’s a decent amount of value that seems harmless to reprint. The same can be said for Soothsaying for Subjective Reality. Why not Darksteel Mutation for the enchantment deck? Or Celestial Mantle in the deck as well. Not much value,
But Greenwarden of Murasa for the jund deck?
You can’t ask for the crazy expensive, not very casual cards. It needs to be the cards that are casual but still hold some value due to scarcity. I don’t understand why they continue to print the same cards 3/4 times over in Commander products.
Concordant Crossroads might be nice. However, the Chronicles printing is around $18 right now (TCGPlayer mid), so that might be a no-go by those standards. (It also doesn't specifically fit into one of these decks aside from being generally good.)
Currently as singles this list is valued at $127. Are these prices over inflated currently? Probably. Buy how much? Not too sure.
Let's even just say this is list is worth $100.
But my point is that these cards will always have value, guaranteed in my opinion.
So if you were to buy all 4 decks at $160 then you're looking at a difference of $60. Will the reprints and even not so much in demand new cards make up the difference $60? Yeah of course it will.
Let's actually look at all the previous evalution history from Commander 2013-2017
You will notice the trend that they always increase in value. Sure some dip and some have stayed pretty level, but if you take things from history, you can almost assuredly bet that you would get a return on investment.
Now I personally haven't broken down each set and really evaluated actual reprints values, that sort of thing, so don't get me wrong the Commander 2018 could be a stinker overall compared to previous years, but at the end of the day, you're likely to at the very least get your money back, but probably gain. Don't quote me on that, I don't want you mortgaging your house on my behalf, but I'm just saying.
But as Rudy points out, take the emotion out of the equation, and I think really look at whether cards will have demand, and then you can figure out if purchasing is worth it from a pure return on investment.
It just seems that you can't lose, unless WotC specifically reprint like they did in Commander 2013, which is why you see the price dip. But even then it's bounced back to increase in value.
A) WotC said that the price hike was due to "power-level" of the decks.
This was just a blatant lie. It was because they just wanted to increase prices, because historically customers have always got a good return on investment, and they'd prefer a bit more of a slice of that pie.
They just needed to be honest and say that Commander products are premium, so hence the price increase.
B) WotC gave us themes for the decks before we got the content.
The actual quality of deck designs was poor and not in theme with what was said.
Huge mistake on Wizards part. They'll just need to keep quite about what the decks are supposed to do, so if the deck designers are clueless, then they are covered.
Something is really off about these decklists. They did a really good job on he new cards, both bringing ome long-awaited characters (don't tell me a product is bad because it doesn't have Serra in it) and overall high-quality and fun commander cards. But then these cards were embedded in decks that are lackluster. I can't believe that the reprint choices for this were made by the same people who designed the cards or came up with the deck themes. Don't get me wrong - I totally believe the precon decks should be far from optimized but loosely themed around 1-3 ideas (each represented by a commander), rather a toolkit to build a deck around whichever commander you liked best. But I feel that while there was some real heart put into the new card designs, the deck designs are just uninspired. Not just value-wise but also tech-wise. no quirky card choices or pet cards. I don't get it.
Maybe Battlebonds gobbled up all the reprint value because they can sell a booster product better if you can pull nice reprints? It would be a terrible shame if all the goodies were put into some supplemental booster producs from now on.
Besides, people keep mentioning a statement from WOTC about increasing price because of power-level. Could someone link that? Can't find it.
I for one am extremely disappointed. I was excited for the Jund deck when it was announced to be lands matter with Windgrace and even a spider legend! The price hike combined with the garbage builds and traditionally bad mana base all lead to a truly uninspired product. The Esper and Jund decks are definitely the biggest letdowns. I'm not even generally looking for raw out of the box power, but these don't even look fun to play vs each other to teach new players. Would these have been so bad?;
It just seems that you can't lose, unless WotC specifically reprint like they did in Commander 2013, which is why you see the price dip. But even then it's bounced back to increase in value.
If you plan to hide them in a closet for ten years, yeah, they're sure to increase in price.
But they're bad value now from both and economic and gameplay perspective. Money wise Wal Mart/Target have demonstrated they're not afraid to lose a buck to move stock, so even if some of the new cards are ever in demand, the supply is likely to be more than enough to quench it. Gameplay wise 80% of each deck is bad cards that have been reprinted again and again, and again. You have abundant prints to chose from if for whatever reason you want Rampaging Baloths, you don't need to buy one of these decks for it.
If the decks were worth exactly the same but every rare that has been printed more than once since M15 was replaced by a similar card that has not been reprinted in the past 8 years there would be way less to complain about.
If you plan to hide them in a closet for ten years, yeah, they're sure to increase in price. [...] But they're bad value now from both and economic and gameplay perspective. [...] Gameplay wise 80% of each deck is bad cards that have been reprinted again and again, and again.
This right here is the problem.
I'm not a "magic investor", I don't care if the product "loses me money" in the long run. Magic is a hobby and although I think it has become too expensive and should be cheaper, in general I have no problem paying for it. I also understand that they want to encourage people to take out cards and tune the decks, so they're not going to include all the staples for the respective themes. But is something like Sensei's Divining Top really too much to ask for? It's a 6€ card here in Europe, in the perfect "reprint price range" so to say, and it fits the deck's theme.
On Blogatog, here's what Maro responded to a question about the land matters deck:
"shadowstar91 asked: Now that all the cards for C18 have been spoiled, along with the decklists, I feel confident saying that the Jund deck was mislabeled and handled VERY poorly. It was revealed to us as a 'Lands Matter' deck but then on its preview day there were very few cards shown that fit that theme. Now knowing the deck in its entirety, it doesn't feel like a Lands Matter deck. You yourself admit it is more than a Lands Matter deck, but that is what it was revealed to us as which is why many are/were upset.
Gavin was trying to give a short description to a deck that didn’t easily fit into one. Of the mistakes we’ve made, it seems pretty minor."
What do you think about that response? It seems like he (and WotC) doesn't really care...
A handful of cool callbacks doesn't save this set from being a poorly constructed, overpriced mess. I'm not normally this dour and negative about things, but come on. I did order a few singles, though. Endless Atlas is pretty sweet.
Regarding Reprints: I can understand being upset by the lack of cards like Soothsaying and The Gitrog Monster. When people are upset that they didn't get Vampiric Tutor and Oracle of Mul Daya, though... are you serious? Looking back through commander history, has wizards regularly packaged $30-45 reprints in their $40 products? Is that a thing we have seriously seen on a regular basis? Unless you balance that type of value VERY carefully (and two $20 cards may not automatically equal one $40 card for this purpose), we end up with another Truename Nemesis situation where one deck is almost impossible to get while stores end up with too many copies of the other decks that they can't easily sell... and Wizards would be doing that KNOWINGLY.
Regarding Deck Value: The decks are fine. While they aren't playable by any means, they don't really need to be from an economic standpoint. During the chaos of spoiler season, us players have this habit of overvaluing cards that we haven't had the chance to test. As long as each new cards is being overvalued by a different group of players, preorder prices will reflect that trend. If you go to the "popular" digital MTG storefronts and want to get a full set of the new cards from a deck, it may just be cost-efficient to buy the whole deck.
Of course, you could just wait for speculation to cool down and get your singles when the smoke clears... or shop around to get the best prices... but Wizards went out of their way to make all of those new cards as flashy as possible (using colors + creature types that players wanted, looking into archetypes that did not have strong commanders, breathing new life into decks that never quite came together, choosing old characters to give cards, supplying general goodstuff cards, reprinting cards with a series of old mechanics that we haven't seen for a while, etc.) to provoke immediate action from those with poor impulse control so that Wizards (and Local Gaming Shops) could make their money.
Okay, the first twenty times people asked that question I didn't say anything, but let's be clear about that: Sensei's Divining Top is an annoying card and just not printing it or Soothsaying might just be something they decided to do. Everything else is negotiable, but when you ask about that card, just consider coming up with another example.
There are two things that people seemed to expect that I couldn't see them get: SDT and good mana bases.
I can see that the response to these decks is overwhelmingly negative. Good, that's how it should be.
But I hope that if we're all really that unhappy with these decks that we aren't just going to buy them anyway and not put our money where our mouth is. Don't buy the decks. Buy singles. Let's at least try to make a small dip in the profits of this product and show them that they can't feed us poop and expect to get the same good results every time.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
Isn't he the same of battlebond? he did a good job with battlebond
Depends on what your definition of good is I suppose. I think it was trash personally. The squinting man-child that Rosewater is grooming to take over for himself has no business designing sets. Every set they let this tool develop/design we will see the same results. I didn't spend a dime on Battlebond, I won't spend a dime on C18. I won't say more because anything else seems to be verboten on the site, so I have to leave it at that.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Regarding Reprints: I can understand being upset by the lack of cards like Soothsaying and The Gitrog Monster. When people are upset that they didn't get Vampiric Tutor and Oracle of Mul Daya, though... are you serious? Looking back through commander history, has wizards regularly packaged $30-45 reprints in their $40 products? Is that a thing we have seriously seen on a regular basis? Unless you balance that type of value VERY carefully (and two $20 cards may not automatically equal one $40 card for this purpose), we end up with another Truename Nemesis situation where one deck is almost impossible to get while stores end up with too many copies of the other decks that they can't easily sell... and Wizards would be doing that KNOWINGLY.
Except we're going to head in for a "Truename Nemesis" situation because only one deck can really be considered decent (Bant) while the other three are underpar at best and close to PW deck at worst. One of these is clearly going to be the favorite, because it sticks to a theme, it's one we don't get often, the new cards are fancy, and it's the only one that looks playable right outside the box. Even the U/R deck is worse than both Breya's from C16 and Daretti's from C14 and U/R is probably the 2nd best among them, but that doesn't mean much here.
As for Oracle of Mul Daya it's not crazy to have expected it. A year ago, when these decks were most likely being made, the card was around $20 and in C14 we had a $20-$25 card reprinted with Wurmcoil Engine. There's a precedent that $20 cards can be in these products and it's important to print them to make sure their price is kept low, else they rise and suddenly something that should be a shoe in isn't because suddenly there's some invisible line that says "no cards above this price".
On Blogatog, here's what Maro responded to a question about the land matters deck:
"shadowstar91 asked: Now that all the cards for C18 have been spoiled, along with the decklists, I feel confident saying that the Jund deck was mislabeled and handled VERY poorly. It was revealed to us as a 'Lands Matter' deck but then on its preview day there were very few cards shown that fit that theme. Now knowing the deck in its entirety, it doesn't feel like a Lands Matter deck. You yourself admit it is more than a Lands Matter deck, but that is what it was revealed to us as which is why many are/were upset.
Gavin was trying to give a short description to a deck that didn’t easily fit into one. Of the mistakes we’ve made, it seems pretty minor."
What do you think about that response? It seems like he (and WotC) doesn't really care...
While it does seem like a minor mistake to make to describe the deck in a way they did not wish so that then begs the question of what the Jund deck is. There is clearly some sort of land focus, but if it isn't it then what? From what I can tell it's just....mid range stuff? If it isn't lands then it seems to be a mishmash of various big stuff that has no focus nor synergies past making sure you can get lands to pay for them.
Overall it does seem like a bit of a cop out response as it gives no answer to what the deck is nor the extremely poor quality of it and only gives the excuse that it was labeled improperly. Problem is the wrong labeling doesn't suddenly make the deck better nor explain why it is the way it is.
Remember the set symbol folks. In a year to 18 months when these start showing up in MJ Holdings repackaged plastic cubes at your local Wal-Mart/Target you can get them with a couple of loose packs for 30 bucks or so if you jiggle the cube just right to see inside. Save yourselves some money.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
On Blogatog, here's what Maro responded to a question about the land matters deck:
"shadowstar91 asked: Now that all the cards for C18 have been spoiled, along with the decklists, I feel confident saying that the Jund deck was mislabeled and handled VERY poorly. It was revealed to us as a 'Lands Matter' deck but then on its preview day there were very few cards shown that fit that theme. Now knowing the deck in its entirety, it doesn't feel like a Lands Matter deck. You yourself admit it is more than a Lands Matter deck, but that is what it was revealed to us as which is why many are/were upset.
Gavin was trying to give a short description to a deck that didn’t easily fit into one. Of the mistakes we’ve made, it seems pretty minor."
What do you think about that response? It seems like he (and WotC) doesn't really care...
While it does seem like a minor mistake to make to describe the deck in a way they did not wish so that then begs the question of what the Jund deck is. There is clearly some sort of land focus, but if it isn't it then what? From what I can tell it's just....mid range stuff? If it isn't lands then it seems to be a mishmash of various big stuff that has no focus nor synergies past making sure you can get lands to pay for them.
Overall it does seem like a bit of a cop out response as it gives no answer to what the deck is nor the extremely poor quality of it and only gives the excuse that it was labeled improperly. Problem is the wrong labeling doesn't suddenly make the deck better nor explain why it is the way it is.
While I mostly agree with everything that everyone has said in terms of the deck not being “lands matter”, I think it’s actually somewhat accurate to its name, Nature’s Vengeance. Lands, Hydras, Spiders. Seems the theme is more “big s*** in the forest that can **** you up”
Doesn’t make up for the fact that the deck is awfully weirdly put together though
On Blogatog, here's what Maro responded to a question about the land matters deck:
"shadowstar91 asked: Now that all the cards for C18 have been spoiled, along with the decklists, I feel confident saying that the Jund deck was mislabeled and handled VERY poorly. It was revealed to us as a 'Lands Matter' deck but then on its preview day there were very few cards shown that fit that theme. Now knowing the deck in its entirety, it doesn't feel like a Lands Matter deck. You yourself admit it is more than a Lands Matter deck, but that is what it was revealed to us as which is why many are/were upset.
Gavin was trying to give a short description to a deck that didn’t easily fit into one. Of the mistakes we’ve made, it seems pretty minor."
What do you think about that response? It seems like he (and WotC) doesn't really care...
I think it's actually about right, though.
1. No, the "lands matter" theme doesn't fit the whole deck, but fits some of it (mostly the new cards). It's a hodgepodge of Jundy themes, but that description probably won't get anyone's interest. Mark isn't the kind of guy who would say to blame it on the fact that marketing exists as a concept, even though that's pretty much what we should do.
2. It does seem pretty minor. Oh, boo hoo, they mislabeled something. We saw it and we now recognize it isn't. In a relative sense, it's no skin off anyone's back; a good many of us who will still purchase the Jund deck will buy it knowing it's not really "lands matter" in the way we were hoping for.
Inside of the content of the comment, it answers what was stated. The person didn't ask "okay what IS that Jund deck" or "why is there no value in that Jund deck." If we want more answered (which is entirely fair) it's going to have to come from answers to other questions.
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Chromium, the Mutable - Silver Control
I'm half surprised they didn't put it in the Jund deck...
the word "land" is on the card, after all!
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
This list is somewhat silly, though your idea is a good idea to voice community opinions.
The chances of them printing anything of high value, let’s say $15 or more, is quite slim. I would also never expect a tutor in a preconstructed deck, just due to the fact that they aren’t overly casual. Instead, the cards that need to be focused on are the cards that are $3-$6 and fit the themes of decks that are being designed.
Why doesn’t the artifact deck have a Solemn Simulacrum? That’s a decent amount of value that seems harmless to reprint. The same can be said for Soothsaying for Subjective Reality. Why not Darksteel Mutation for the enchantment deck? Or Celestial Mantle in the deck as well. Not much value,
But Greenwarden of Murasa for the jund deck?
You can’t ask for the crazy expensive, not very casual cards. It needs to be the cards that are casual but still hold some value due to scarcity. I don’t understand why they continue to print the same cards 3/4 times over in Commander products.
I would recommend watching it => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lohkpPUKOQ
The thing is that you do have to really take a step back and evaluate the new cards and really think about how they might be in demand in the future.
So I do think that these cards are legit, meaning they will have some demand in the future:
Currently as singles this list is valued at $127. Are these prices over inflated currently? Probably. Buy how much? Not too sure.
Let's even just say this is list is worth $100.
But my point is that these cards will always have value, guaranteed in my opinion.
So if you were to buy all 4 decks at $160 then you're looking at a difference of $60. Will the reprints and even not so much in demand new cards make up the difference $60? Yeah of course it will.
Let's actually look at all the previous evalution history from Commander 2013-2017
You will notice the trend that they always increase in value. Sure some dip and some have stayed pretty level, but if you take things from history, you can almost assuredly bet that you would get a return on investment.
Now I personally haven't broken down each set and really evaluated actual reprints values, that sort of thing, so don't get me wrong the Commander 2018 could be a stinker overall compared to previous years, but at the end of the day, you're likely to at the very least get your money back, but probably gain. Don't quote me on that, I don't want you mortgaging your house on my behalf, but I'm just saying.
But as Rudy points out, take the emotion out of the equation, and I think really look at whether cards will have demand, and then you can figure out if purchasing is worth it from a pure return on investment.
It just seems that you can't lose, unless WotC specifically reprint like they did in Commander 2013, which is why you see the price dip. But even then it's bounced back to increase in value.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
A) WotC said that the price hike was due to "power-level" of the decks.
This was just a blatant lie. It was because they just wanted to increase prices, because historically customers have always got a good return on investment, and they'd prefer a bit more of a slice of that pie.
They just needed to be honest and say that Commander products are premium, so hence the price increase.
B) WotC gave us themes for the decks before we got the content.
The actual quality of deck designs was poor and not in theme with what was said.
Huge mistake on Wizards part. They'll just need to keep quite about what the decks are supposed to do, so if the deck designers are clueless, then they are covered.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Maybe Battlebonds gobbled up all the reprint value because they can sell a booster product better if you can pull nice reprints? It would be a terrible shame if all the goodies were put into some supplemental booster producs from now on.
Besides, people keep mentioning a statement from WOTC about increasing price because of power-level. Could someone link that? Can't find it.
UR Mizzix of the Izmagnus ~~~ Build your own win-condition: Finite Spellslinging
UR Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer ~~~ We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own.
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic ~~~ A Guide to dying slowly
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose ~~~ Marchesa's undying Marionettes
RGW Mayael the Anima ~~~ All Hail the Big Chungus
GWU Chulane, Teller of Tales ~~~ Permanents Only ETB Shenanigans
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant ~~~ Sidisi's Restless Servants
WUBRG The Ur-Dragon ~~~ Dragons eat your face
Jund:
Esper:
(Even just one of the tutors would have been fine)
But they're bad value now from both and economic and gameplay perspective. Money wise Wal Mart/Target have demonstrated they're not afraid to lose a buck to move stock, so even if some of the new cards are ever in demand, the supply is likely to be more than enough to quench it. Gameplay wise 80% of each deck is bad cards that have been reprinted again and again, and again. You have abundant prints to chose from if for whatever reason you want Rampaging Baloths, you don't need to buy one of these decks for it.
If the decks were worth exactly the same but every rare that has been printed more than once since M15 was replaced by a similar card that has not been reprinted in the past 8 years there would be way less to complain about.
Just order it in EU, costs you like 10€.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
I'm not a "magic investor", I don't care if the product "loses me money" in the long run. Magic is a hobby and although I think it has become too expensive and should be cheaper, in general I have no problem paying for it. I also understand that they want to encourage people to take out cards and tune the decks, so they're not going to include all the staples for the respective themes. But is something like Sensei's Divining Top really too much to ask for? It's a 6€ card here in Europe, in the perfect "reprint price range" so to say, and it fits the deck's theme.
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Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
"shadowstar91 asked: Now that all the cards for C18 have been spoiled, along with the decklists, I feel confident saying that the Jund deck was mislabeled and handled VERY poorly. It was revealed to us as a 'Lands Matter' deck but then on its preview day there were very few cards shown that fit that theme. Now knowing the deck in its entirety, it doesn't feel like a Lands Matter deck. You yourself admit it is more than a Lands Matter deck, but that is what it was revealed to us as which is why many are/were upset.
Gavin was trying to give a short description to a deck that didn’t easily fit into one. Of the mistakes we’ve made, it seems pretty minor."
What do you think about that response? It seems like he (and WotC) doesn't really care...
My 720 Peasant Cube
Regarding Deck Value: The decks are fine. While they aren't playable by any means, they don't really need to be from an economic standpoint. During the chaos of spoiler season, us players have this habit of overvaluing cards that we haven't had the chance to test. As long as each new cards is being overvalued by a different group of players, preorder prices will reflect that trend. If you go to the "popular" digital MTG storefronts and want to get a full set of the new cards from a deck, it may just be cost-efficient to buy the whole deck.
Of course, you could just wait for speculation to cool down and get your singles when the smoke clears... or shop around to get the best prices... but Wizards went out of their way to make all of those new cards as flashy as possible (using colors + creature types that players wanted, looking into archetypes that did not have strong commanders, breathing new life into decks that never quite came together, choosing old characters to give cards, supplying general goodstuff cards, reprinting cards with a series of old mechanics that we haven't seen for a while, etc.) to provoke immediate action from those with poor impulse control so that Wizards (and Local Gaming Shops) could make their money.
Okay, the first twenty times people asked that question I didn't say anything, but let's be clear about that: Sensei's Divining Top is an annoying card and just not printing it or Soothsaying might just be something they decided to do. Everything else is negotiable, but when you ask about that card, just consider coming up with another example.
There are two things that people seemed to expect that I couldn't see them get: SDT and good mana bases.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
But I hope that if we're all really that unhappy with these decks that we aren't just going to buy them anyway and not put our money where our mouth is. Don't buy the decks. Buy singles. Let's at least try to make a small dip in the profits of this product and show them that they can't feed us poop and expect to get the same good results every time.
-Chandra Nalaar
Depends on what your definition of good is I suppose. I think it was trash personally. The squinting man-child that Rosewater is grooming to take over for himself has no business designing sets. Every set they let this tool develop/design we will see the same results. I didn't spend a dime on Battlebond, I won't spend a dime on C18. I won't say more because anything else seems to be verboten on the site, so I have to leave it at that.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Except we're going to head in for a "Truename Nemesis" situation because only one deck can really be considered decent (Bant) while the other three are underpar at best and close to PW deck at worst. One of these is clearly going to be the favorite, because it sticks to a theme, it's one we don't get often, the new cards are fancy, and it's the only one that looks playable right outside the box. Even the U/R deck is worse than both Breya's from C16 and Daretti's from C14 and U/R is probably the 2nd best among them, but that doesn't mean much here.
As for Oracle of Mul Daya it's not crazy to have expected it. A year ago, when these decks were most likely being made, the card was around $20 and in C14 we had a $20-$25 card reprinted with Wurmcoil Engine. There's a precedent that $20 cards can be in these products and it's important to print them to make sure their price is kept low, else they rise and suddenly something that should be a shoe in isn't because suddenly there's some invisible line that says "no cards above this price".
And why is Varchild only a 3/3? She is a skilled warrior who lead an army, and helped defeat a planeswalker.
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While it does seem like a minor mistake to make to describe the deck in a way they did not wish so that then begs the question of what the Jund deck is. There is clearly some sort of land focus, but if it isn't it then what? From what I can tell it's just....mid range stuff? If it isn't lands then it seems to be a mishmash of various big stuff that has no focus nor synergies past making sure you can get lands to pay for them.
Overall it does seem like a bit of a cop out response as it gives no answer to what the deck is nor the extremely poor quality of it and only gives the excuse that it was labeled improperly. Problem is the wrong labeling doesn't suddenly make the deck better nor explain why it is the way it is.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
While I mostly agree with everything that everyone has said in terms of the deck not being “lands matter”, I think it’s actually somewhat accurate to its name, Nature’s Vengeance. Lands, Hydras, Spiders. Seems the theme is more “big s*** in the forest that can **** you up”
Doesn’t make up for the fact that the deck is awfully weirdly put together though
I think it's actually about right, though.
1. No, the "lands matter" theme doesn't fit the whole deck, but fits some of it (mostly the new cards). It's a hodgepodge of Jundy themes, but that description probably won't get anyone's interest. Mark isn't the kind of guy who would say to blame it on the fact that marketing exists as a concept, even though that's pretty much what we should do.
2. It does seem pretty minor. Oh, boo hoo, they mislabeled something. We saw it and we now recognize it isn't. In a relative sense, it's no skin off anyone's back; a good many of us who will still purchase the Jund deck will buy it knowing it's not really "lands matter" in the way we were hoping for.
Inside of the content of the comment, it answers what was stated. The person didn't ask "okay what IS that Jund deck" or "why is there no value in that Jund deck." If we want more answered (which is entirely fair) it's going to have to come from answers to other questions.