I wonder who might end up being the Izzet commander for an artifact deck. And the only result I can come up with is Daretti going the Mizzix route
Most likely options are Saheeli, Dack Fayden or a new character.
Daretti is now established as a BR character lore-wise, so he's probably out. I think Dack resonates more with the audience, but that might be because he actually got a story. I don't care either way, as long as the stats are decent. When discussing which character should get a card, we tend to forget that there is a significant non-Vorthos part of the market. You know, the ones that want a spider legend that would allow them to include R, werewolf legend that actually supports werevolves, bear legend that somehow interacts with bears, etc.
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standard: BUG The Baron (it doesn't work, but I try anyway)
Am I the only one that finds the artwork with the midget in it a bit creepy? Reminds me of Shadowmoor block.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Am I the only one that finds the artwork with the midget in it a bit creepy? Reminds me of Shadowmoor block.
I think it's a kid not a midget lol. But yeah it's super creepy. It has that southern horror bayou kinda creepy level. Anyone ever see True Detective? For some reason it gives me those vibes. I'm excited to see what the card does.
Also, I would be willing to bet that the Theros Bant Commander is an Enchantment Creature judging by that artwork. It fits the Nyxborn and God art of the set almost perfectly.
Oranges are great, right? People who like oranges are in for a treat!
We'll be bringing you some fruit in a couple days.
Here are some bananas.
It's reasonable to think that two statements that could be simultaneously true coming from the same company are in fact related. That said, I'm not too broken up about it. We'll be seeing new cards pretty soon anyway. This also doesn't mean we won't still be getting oranges.
Drag 'em. Another reasonable voice, as everyone continues to debate their expectations.
How are you people still going at this? You are making a seriously wrong assumption in your arguments - that the first two events are related (they are clearly not). Person A talks oranges, person B promises you fruit. These events happen independently, in different contexts, only linked by the fact that the speakers share a workplace (but might be working on two very different projects at the time of uttering the statements - one procuring oranges, other bananas). Clearly, when person B brings you fruit, it's going to be bananas. He might not even know that you were discussing oranges with person A.
Not to be totally irrelevant, what about Tawnos for the artifact deck? I have always seen him as a rather unique URG artificer, but he might fit and is about as well-known as Feroz.
I am still hoping for Tevesh Szat as a sub-commander in the Esper deck, but I don't really like my chances.
-
Edited for typos, though I'm sure there are more.
Tawnos isn't a planeswalker though, so if we get him, it will be as a legendary creature and not the "face card", that said, it would be awesome to see him get a card. Another non-walker artificer which would be lovely to see get a card is Ashnod herself, but I find that unlikely in a red/blue deck considering her methods were often decidedly black.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I think it's a kid not a midget lol. But yeah it's super creepy. It has that southern horror bayou kinda creepy level. Anyone ever see True Detective? For some reason it gives me those vibes. I'm excited to see what the card does.
The genre you're looking for is Southern Gothic, and it rules.
Oranges are great, right? People who like oranges are in for a treat!
We'll be bringing you some fruit in a couple days.
Here are some bananas.
It's reasonable to think that two statements that could be simultaneously true coming from the same company are in fact related. That said, I'm not too broken up about it. We'll be seeing new cards pretty soon anyway. This also doesn't mean we won't still be getting oranges.
Drag 'em. Another reasonable voice, as everyone continues to debate their expectations.
How are you people still going at this? You are making a seriously wrong assumption in your arguments - that the first two events are related (they are clearly not). Person A talks oranges, person B promises you fruit. These events happen independently, in different contexts, only linked by the fact that the speakers share a workplace (but might be working on two very different projects at the time of uttering the statements - one procuring oranges, other bananas). Clearly, when person B brings you fruit, it's going to be bananas. He might not even know that you were discussing oranges with person A.
Not to be totally irrelevant, what about Tawnos for the artifact deck? I have always seen him as a rather unique URG artificer, but he might fit and is about as well-known as Feroz.
I am still hoping for Tevesh Szat as a sub-commander in the Esper deck, but I don't really like my chances.
-
Edited for typos, though I'm sure there are more.
Because the way this whole Commander season was handled. What we learned waiting an hour into a last minute M19 stream for three minutes of C18 was information we traditionally have on Announcement Day. Two Announcement Days didn't even bother. That's the reason everyone was hanging on to hints. The whole thing was just a string of feel-bad moments. Not our fault leaks happened last year.
You keep repeating the same argument ad nauseam, without providing anything of value. The spoiler season has not started yet, ergo, it has not been handled in any way yet. Instead of being glad for having some early information, you keep complaining about WotC letting us know anything at all. IIRC, there were times when no official info was available on supplementary products before reveal. Hell, first two commander products had practically no flavor, just few lines of copy stapled to the legends last minute. Just be glad that there is an actual chance for you to get your random tertiary character from a fifteen years old novel that almost no active players have read or whatever it is that you want.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
standard: BUG The Baron (it doesn't work, but I try anyway)
Oranges are great, right? People who like oranges are in for a treat!
We'll be bringing you some fruit in a couple days.
Here are some bananas.
It's reasonable to think that two statements that could be simultaneously true coming from the same company are in fact related. That said, I'm not too broken up about it. We'll be seeing new cards pretty soon anyway. This also doesn't mean we won't still be getting oranges.
Drag 'em. Another reasonable voice, as everyone continues to debate their expectations.
How are you people still going at this? You are making a seriously wrong assumption in your arguments - that the first two events are related (they are clearly not). Person A talks oranges, person B promises you fruit. These events happen independently, in different contexts, only linked by the fact that the speakers share a workplace (but might be working on two very different projects at the time of uttering the statements - one procuring oranges, other bananas). Clearly, when person B brings you fruit, it's going to be bananas. He might not even know that you were discussing oranges with person A.
Not to be totally irrelevant, what about Tawnos for the artifact deck? I have always seen him as a rather unique URG artificer, but he might fit and is about as well-known as Feroz.
I am still hoping for Tevesh Szat as a sub-commander in the Esper deck, but I don't really like my chances.
-
Edited for typos, though I'm sure there are more.
Because the way this whole Commander season was handled. What we learned waiting an hour into a last minute M19 stream for three minutes of C18 was information we traditionally have on Announcement Day. Two Announcement Days didn't even bother. That's the reason everyone was hanging on to hints. The whole thing was just a string of feel-bad moments. Not our fault leaks happened last year.
You keep repeating the same argument ad nauseam, without providing anything of value. The spoiler season has not started yet, ergo, it has not been handled in any way yet. Instead of being glad for having some early information, you keep complaining about WotC letting us know anything at all. IIRC, there were times when no official info was available on supplementary products before reveal. Hell, first two commander products had practically no flavor, just few lines of copy stapled to the legends last minute. Just be glad that there is an actual chance for you to get your random tertiary character from a fifteen years old novel that almost no active players have read or whatever it is that you want.
I think you misunderstand Tiro's point. By this time over the last few years, we've had some tidbit from WotC regarding the upcoming commander sets. The info we got at the M19 stream was the kind of info we previously got on announcement day, and even then it was usually art of a face card, such as Teferi's reveal, or the Ur-Dragon art last year. And as we got closer we got more info, including a card before the official spoiler season started. People are feeling frustrated (and rightfully so) because WotC have given us next to nothing this year to build up hype for the yearly commander product, and what little we've gotten has been incidental at best.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Personally, I think the art is quite cool. From the art though, the knight looks mono red in the artifact deck. The zombie makes me think its not a creature but a spell in the top-of-deck-matters esper deck. The spider is almost assuredly jund. I also think that the moth girl is black white in the esper deck. The theros girl is bant enchantment. And lastly, I like the thought that the mask lady is a shape shifter. She definetly has blue tones to her, and I think she is in the esper warp reality deck.
I think that it is cool that there will be more three color planeswalkers. I personally am rooting for a sultai planeswalker that could steal other planeswalkers abilities, some sort of spark thief that has fun planeswalker graveyard abilities.
I never expected this amount of backlash to these decks. If they deliver on them they might be the best set of decks in my humble opinion. Izzet Artifact and Bant enchantments have been requested for years now and I think Jund lands and Esper top deck both sound novel and interesting. I'm very excited for spoiler week to start.
...I still wish they had spoiled at least ONE general last week though. Or at least started spoilers this week. Waiting is hard...
Two Separate Issues. I think the decks will be quite good. I also think the marketing campaign and expectation management has been crap. They are not mutually exclusive.
Drag 'em. Another reasonable voice, as everyone continues to debate their expectations.
How are you people still going at this? You are making a seriously wrong assumption in your arguments - that the first two events are related (they are clearly not). Person A talks oranges, person B promises you fruit. These events happen independently, in different contexts, only linked by the fact that the speakers share a workplace (but might be working on two very different projects at the time of uttering the statements - one procuring oranges, other bananas). Clearly, when person B brings you fruit, it's going to be bananas. He might not even know that you were discussing oranges with person A.
Not to be totally irrelevant, what about Tawnos for the artifact deck? I have always seen him as a rather unique URG artificer, but he might fit and is about as well-known as Feroz.
I am still hoping for Tevesh Szat as a sub-commander in the Esper deck, but I don't really like my chances.
-
Edited for typos, though I'm sure there are more.
Because the way this whole Commander season was handled. What we learned waiting an hour into a last minute M19 stream for three minutes of C18 was information we traditionally have on Announcement Day. Two Announcement Days didn't even bother. That's the reason everyone was hanging on to hints. The whole thing was just a string of feel-bad moments. Not our fault leaks happened last year.
You keep repeating the same argument ad nauseam, without providing anything of value. The spoiler season has not started yet, ergo, it has not been handled in any way yet. Instead of being glad for having some early information, you keep complaining about WotC letting us know anything at all. IIRC, there were times when no official info was available on supplementary products before reveal. Hell, first two commander products had practically no flavor, just few lines of copy stapled to the legends last minute. Just be glad that there is an actual chance for you to get your random tertiary character from a fifteen years old novel that almost no active players have read or whatever it is that you want.
I think you misunderstand Tiro's point. By this time over the last few years, we've had some tidbit from WotC regarding the upcoming commander sets. The info we got at the M19 stream was the kind of info we previously got on announcement day, and even then it was usually art of a face card, such as Teferi's reveal, or the Ur-Dragon art last year. And as we got closer we got more info, including a card before the official spoiler season started. People are feeling frustrated (and rightfully so) because WotC have given us next to nothing this year to build up hype for the yearly commander product, and what little we've gotten has been incidental at best.
Essentially. Incidental and conflicting. When the first reaction to more info is dread (RE: Serra?), eh.
I agree with Autumn that the decks will likely be very good, if not the best we've gotten now that color restrictions have been lifted. They may even meet a vast number of our expectations. But even relative to past protocol, not the best management. And I'm saying this as someone who is bursting at the seams to see Theros art.
And lastly, I like the thought that the mask lady is a shape shifter. She definetly has blue tones to her, and I think she is in the esper warp reality deck.
Perhaps she has a better version of Skill Borrower's ability, wherein she becomes a copy of the top card of your library if it's a creature card? Okay, Skill Borrower can also copy activated abilities of artifact cards on top of your library, but she only copies activated abilities, and frankly I don't know that there will be enough cards like that in the deck to make her worthwhile.
I think that it is cool that there will be more three color planeswalkers. I personally am rooting for a sultai planeswalker that could steal other planeswalkers abilities, some sort of spark thief that has fun planeswalker graveyard abilities.
Well, this year the deck colors are UR, WUB, BRG, and GWU, so unless you mean a planeswalker from Sultai and not Sultai colored (BGU) per se, I doubt that'll happen in C18.
You know, I just realized Exquisite Invention could have been URW. So close...but I'll still enjoy seeing UR get an artifact-focused deck.
Maybe one of the UR legends uses Energy? In fact, I'm hoping we get tokens, charge/energy counters, and tap/untap as the three major deck themes, though red will have a tougher time supporting tap/untap than blue. Maybe simplify down to tokens, charge counters, and energy counters? Red should be able to support all of those. Though a +1/+1 counter subtheme with Modular would make it easier to implement the Module trio, not to mention work with cards like Energy Chamber and Power Conduit. Tokens and counters, then? Artifact sacrifice also seems reasonable, since Modular works well with it.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Essentially. Incidental and conflicting. When the first reaction to more info is dread (RE: Serra?), eh.
I agree with Autumn that the decks will likely be very good, if not the best we've gotten now that color restrictions have been lifted. They may even meet a vast number of our expectations. But even relative to past protocol, not the best management. And I'm saying this as someone who is bursting at the seams to see Theros art.
I think many people are missing that last year, we knew next to nothing for ages. We knew tribal, but not colours. We didn't know that Wizards was confirmed as one of the tribes until right before Inalla was spoiled. We had a fuzzy pic of the precon box that was leaked, and we couldn't be certain that the deck was Wizards. I remember UB Rogues being a strong contender for the last slot.I'm really happy that we have the themes. This means we have something to speculate on.
I understand your points. I wish they would go back to spoiling a card early. But they didn't. They gave us the themes, and I'm happy with that.
The product page said there would be walkers. Verhy mentioned Kamigawa. We were told that the stream would give us some art and the themes.
The stream gave us some art and the themes.
People in this thread have taken these 5 images to mean that WoTC lied about there being walkers in the product. Do you see why that's ridiculous? 5 images. No information about cards at all. They never said that they were not doing walkers. They never said that there would be no Kamigawa cards. They never said that that stream would reveal cards. They never said that they were going to give more information on the stream except for the art and the themes.
Your disappointment is from conflating three separate sources of information. Neither discounts the other. You (and others) took three separate sources of information and expected more than what they were given. That's on you.
Again, I wish they had given us more. A face card, a full card, a mechanic, a returning/new to paper character, but they didn't. They never said they were going to. Me expecting them to give that information in stream when they had told us the information they were giving us is completely unreasonable.
Also, expecting Gavin's comment to directly translate to the COMM decks is assuming too much as well. Who's to say they're not doing a Global Series: Japan and rehashing Kamigawa? Maybe a Spellbook: Tamiyo? Maybe a new supplemental product based on Kamigawa itself? Gavin doesn't only deal with Commander.
How are you people still going at this? You are making a seriously wrong assumption in your arguments - that the first two events are related (they are clearly not). Person A talks oranges, person B promises you fruit. These events happen independently, in different contexts, only linked by the fact that the speakers share a workplace (but might be working on two very different projects at the time of uttering the statements - one procuring oranges, other bananas). Clearly, when person B brings you fruit, it's going to be bananas. He might not even know that you were discussing oranges with person A.
Not to be totally irrelevant, what about Tawnos for the artifact deck? I have always seen him as a rather unique URG artificer, but he might fit and is about as well-known as Feroz.
I am still hoping for Tevesh Szat as a sub-commander in the Esper deck, but I don't really like my chances.
-
Edited for typos, though I'm sure there are more.
Because the way this whole Commander season was handled. What we learned waiting an hour into a last minute M19 stream for three minutes of C18 was information we traditionally have on Announcement Day. Two Announcement Days didn't even bother. That's the reason everyone was hanging on to hints. The whole thing was just a string of feel-bad moments. Not our fault leaks happened last year.
You keep repeating the same argument ad nauseam, without providing anything of value. The spoiler season has not started yet, ergo, it has not been handled in any way yet. Instead of being glad for having some early information, you keep complaining about WotC letting us know anything at all. IIRC, there were times when no official info was available on supplementary products before reveal. Hell, first two commander products had practically no flavor, just few lines of copy stapled to the legends last minute. Just be glad that there is an actual chance for you to get your random tertiary character from a fifteen years old novel that almost no active players have read or whatever it is that you want.
I think you misunderstand Tiro's point. By this time over the last few years, we've had some tidbit from WotC regarding the upcoming commander sets. The info we got at the M19 stream was the kind of info we previously got on announcement day, and even then it was usually art of a face card, such as Teferi's reveal, or the Ur-Dragon art last year. And as we got closer we got more info, including a card before the official spoiler season started. People are feeling frustrated (and rightfully so) because WotC have given us next to nothing this year to build up hype for the yearly commander product, and what little we've gotten has been incidental at best.
Essentially. Incidental and conflicting. When the first reaction to more info is dread (RE: Serra?), eh.
I agree with Autumn that the decks will likely be very good, if not the best we've gotten now that color restrictions have been lifted. They may even meet a vast number of our expectations. But even relative to past protocol, not the best management. And I'm saying this as someone who is bursting at the seams to see Theros art.
I get that. The only two qualms I have with this logic is thinking WotC owes us the early information - just because they did provide over the past few years doesn't make them obliged to do anything - and seeing Gavin's offhand comment about some form of providing Kamigawa content in an unspecified future product as related not only to the upcoming Commander decks, but even to the stream itself.
Also, why dread? There are some good arguments for Serra being Bant, as others have shown. From a functional standpoint, having a wider range of cards at your disposal is generally better (unless we are no longer seeing MtG as a game, but rather as an aesthetic extension of a story, which, to me, is a very flawed perception of a product the main aspect of which is the capacity to be used as game pieces). Don't get me wrong, I personally would have gone with a mono W Serra, but even if she is printed as Bant (if she is even present in the product at all), I think there will be more happy than unhappy customers, and that's the bottom line here.
Instead of arguing over whether WotC should have given us more information, let's try to think of reasons why they didn't. I mean, Commander is, historiaclly, a well-selling product, providing certain information in certain amounts before the actual spoilers is a pretty decent advertising strategy and we know that it works in this specific context. Marketing team should be aware of this (the discussion of actual capabilities of the WotC Marketing team are a different topic entirely, but I am aware of possible shortcomings here, hence the "should"). So why didn't they give us more info? This is an honest question: what do you think? Do they think us not knowing anything creates more hype, or do they already know that more information would kill our interest in the product early? As in, they reveal there are no characters from earlier stories - no Serra for you, no Tevesh Szat for me, etc. No Kamigawa throwbacks, the commanders are utter garbage and so on. Mind, WotC marketing strategy is conceived with US market in mind first and foremost - hype itself is a highly culture-dependent marketing strategy that definitely works for USA and Canada, but is not nearly as effective everywhere. I am certain there is a reason for the course of action they chose and I hope it's the former of the two I mention.
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standard: BUG The Baron (it doesn't work, but I try anyway)
I think they didn't spoil art of known characters mostly because they would be easier to recognize. Lets say you have art from Saheeli or even a more obscure character, people would find out easily who they are.
Personally I wanted more old characters and I certainly didn't like the spider or the zombie, because they look generic. I wish the could take old characters instead of creating new ones each time. I am pretty sure there are esper oldwalkers.
My only hope is that there are more than one planeswalker per set. If not, its ok. But it would be awesome.
I really hope the enchantment or artifact commanders do something else than carddraw off enchantments or artifacts. Don't get me wrong, drawing cards is great, but it's also a pretty boring way for commanders to support their theme. And between Tatyova, Benthic Druid, Jhoira Weatherlight Captain and Arcades the Strategist, there have been quite a few of them in the last two sets already.
We already have enchantment animation (in a way) with Daxos the Returned. "Adaptive Enchantment" makes me think of Aura Swap or an enchantment version of Master Transmuter. Or enchantment duplication/cloning. Maybe enchantments that work for you as well as against your oppponents (and you can move them around)? I guess there will also be at least one aura-focused Commander in that deck.
I think many people are missing that last year, we knew next to nothing for ages. We knew tribal, but not colours. We didn't know that Wizards was confirmed as one of the tribes until right before Inalla was spoiled. We had a fuzzy pic of the precon box that was leaked, and we couldn't be certain that the deck was Wizards. I remember UB Rogues being a strong contender for the last slot.I'm really happy that we have the themes. This means we have something to speculate on.
I remember people saying that Inalla was shapeshifter tribal, lol
Really, this year we know way before color and themes and even the names of the decks.
But i guess a couple of pics are more important.
Clerics was another one that was speculated.
But on to the actual topic. Esper topdeck will need something like Sensei's Divining Top. But that doesn't seem likely, and I will be morr than happy to eat those words.
Thassa seems like a strong contender as well, with the scry 1 ability. And seing the Theros gods in the new legend frame could be cool.
I leaning towards Jund lands, I was hoping to make a man land deck turning to BtZ and didn't like the Awaken archetype and I might be able to use this deck if it dosnt already have a man land theme.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
And as we got closer we got more info, including a card before the official spoiler season started. People are feeling frustrated (and rightfully so) because WotC have given us next to nothing this year to build up hype for the yearly commander product, and what little we've gotten has been incidental at best.
To me looks like people are getting angry because this year they received 36 presents while the last year they received 37.
How does the info that the bant enchantment archetype will receive 3 dedicated generals not hype you? It is probably one of the most sought after theme of commander.
Izzet artifact it's also a great archetype. lot of design space that Jhoira, Weatherlight captain hasn't surely touched.
Jund lands is good too. The Gitrog monster is a loved general and the fact you will be able to play land strategies in 3 colors is awesome.7
Esper top-deck is a nice breath of fresh air. In a color dedicated to broken/combo generals, some weird build around me generals are surely welcomed.
Those deck surely looks way better than selesnya cats or mardu vampires.
Yet people ***** for 8 pages because they don't like the 5 images spoiled.
Rightfully so? Please. If i was wotc, next year i would reveal just the theme with no images to keep the crybabies shut.
And really, ask yourself why they didn't reveal lord Wimdgrace. They are probably planning something great.
I think you may have misunderstood me, I understand why the people are complaining, but I am not one of the ones that do. Personally I am hyped with the themes. Ok, personally I wouldn't have gone with top deck shenanigans for the fourth deck, but I am interested to see what WotC will do with it.
Two Separate Issues. I think the decks will be quite good. I also think the marketing campaign and expectation management has been crap. They are not mutually exclusive.
Because the way this whole Commander season was handled. What we learned waiting an hour into a last minute M19 stream for three minutes of C18 was information we traditionally have on Announcement Day. Two Announcement Days didn't even bother. That's the reason everyone was hanging on to hints. The whole thing was just a string of feel-bad moments. Not our fault leaks happened last year.
You keep repeating the same argument ad nauseam, without providing anything of value. The spoiler season has not started yet, ergo, it has not been handled in any way yet. Instead of being glad for having some early information, you keep complaining about WotC letting us know anything at all. IIRC, there were times when no official info was available on supplementary products before reveal. Hell, first two commander products had practically no flavor, just few lines of copy stapled to the legends last minute. Just be glad that there is an actual chance for you to get your random tertiary character from a fifteen years old novel that almost no active players have read or whatever it is that you want.
I think you misunderstand Tiro's point. By this time over the last few years, we've had some tidbit from WotC regarding the upcoming commander sets. The info we got at the M19 stream was the kind of info we previously got on announcement day, and even then it was usually art of a face card, such as Teferi's reveal, or the Ur-Dragon art last year. And as we got closer we got more info, including a card before the official spoiler season started. People are feeling frustrated (and rightfully so) because WotC have given us next to nothing this year to build up hype for the yearly commander product, and what little we've gotten has been incidental at best.
Essentially. Incidental and conflicting. When the first reaction to more info is dread (RE: Serra?), eh.
I agree with Autumn that the decks will likely be very good, if not the best we've gotten now that color restrictions have been lifted. They may even meet a vast number of our expectations. But even relative to past protocol, not the best management. And I'm saying this as someone who is bursting at the seams to see Theros art.
I get that. The only two qualms I have with this logic is thinking WotC owes us the early information - just because they did provide over the past few years doesn't make them obliged to do anything - and seeing Gavin's offhand comment about some form of providing Kamigawa content in an unspecified future product as related not only to the upcoming Commander decks, but even to the stream itself.
Also, why dread? There are some good arguments for Serra being Bant, as others have shown. From a functional standpoint, having a wider range of cards at your disposal is generally better (unless we are no longer seeing MtG as a game, but rather as an aesthetic extension of a story, which, to me, is a very flawed perception of a product the main aspect of which is the capacity to be used as game pieces). Don't get me wrong, I personally would have gone with a mono W Serra, but even if she is printed as Bant (if she is even present in the product at all), I think there will be more happy than unhappy customers, and that's the bottom line here.
Instead of arguing over whether WotC should have given us more information, let's try to think of reasons why they didn't. I mean, Commander is, historiaclly, a well-selling product, providing certain information in certain amounts before the actual spoilers is a pretty decent advertising strategy and we know that it works in this specific context. Marketing team should be aware of this (the discussion of actual capabilities of the WotC Marketing team are a different topic entirely, but I am aware of possible shortcomings here, hence the "should"). So why didn't they give us more info? This is an honest question: what do you think? Do they think us not knowing anything creates more hype, or do they already know that more information would kill our interest in the product early? As in, they reveal there are no characters from earlier stories - no Serra for you, no Tevesh Szat for me, etc. No Kamigawa throwbacks, the commanders are utter garbage and so on. Mind, WotC marketing strategy is conceived with US market in mind first and foremost - hype itself is a highly culture-dependent marketing strategy that definitely works for USA and Canada, but is not nearly as effective everywhere. I am certain there is a reason for the course of action they chose and I hope it's the former of the two I mention.
The "Serra is a Mono-white planeswalker" keep forgetting that when she was introduced as a planeswalker, she was decidedly GWU aligned (In Homelands).
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
What I would love more than just new commanders, is to see some more format specific answers in Blue/Red in the vein of Chaos Warp and Imprisoned in the Moon. Just a different way of approaching early enchantments which can hose entire strategies in those colors that are otherwise fair in most other color matchups, particularly if you consider a Meren deck has a dozen ways to deal with a RIP or other such GY hate, you can't really say much of the same for The Locust God and Authority of the Consuls or swinging tax effects without drawing into something akin to Impact Tremors.
I'm always more interested in the staples for my existing commanders anyhow, the new deck potentials are just a bonus.
And that is just the top of the pile. There is no reason for a mono-white Serra, particularly considering that when she was introduced as a planeswalker she was associated with three colors: Green, White, and Blue. She is more associated with enchantments and angels than with a color. But we shall see if we get her or not.
Private Mod Note
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
And that is just the top of the pile. There is no reason for a mono-white Serra, particularly considering that when she was introduced as a planeswalker she was associated with three colors: Green, White, and Blue. She is more associated with enchantments and angels than with a color. But we shall see if we get her or not.
That really depends on what your definition of 'good' is. Most of what you just listed do far better in the 99 than as the commander. No lie some of those can be really fun janky commanders; buddy of mine had a Avacyn board-wipe tribal deck that was kinda funny when it got going, but I wouldn't call it good. Of the ones you listed Kemba/Sram/Nahiri are the only good ones. The rest either don't do anything (or anything worth the cost) or are obviously overshadowed by things in dual color.
Though to be fair to your point, there are some decent mono-white commanders.
More on point though, I could see Serra going either way. She's associated with Bant colors sure enough, but the overwhelming majority of her stuff is mono-white. Bare in mind that a number of characters have been associated with colors not on their card. I do agree with you on your point that if we see a Serra card now it'd be Bant colored. No real reason to throw in a mono-white legend into a tri-colored deck.
And that is just the top of the pile. There is no reason for a mono-white Serra, particularly considering that when she was introduced as a planeswalker she was associated with three colors: Green, White, and Blue. She is more associated with enchantments and angels than with a color. But we shall see if we get her or not.
That really depends on what your definition of 'good' is. Most of what you just listed do far better in the 99 than as the commander. No lie some of those can be really fun janky commanders; buddy of mine had a Avacyn board-wipe tribal deck that was kinda funny when it got going, but I wouldn't call it good. Of the ones you listed Kemba/Sram/Nahiri are the only good ones. The rest either don't do anything (or anything worth the cost) or are obviously overshadowed by things in dual color.
Though to be fair to your point, there are some decent mono-white commanders.
More on point though, I could see Serra going either way. She's associated with Bant colors sure enough, but the overwhelming majority of her stuff is mono-white. Bare in mind that a number of characters have been associated with colors not on their card. I do agree with you on your point that if we see a Serra card now it'd be Bant colored. No real reason to throw in a mono-white legend into a tri-colored deck.
Indeed.
Besides, I want to see the look on peoples faces if they put a Bant colored Serra Planeswalker in the enchantment deck just so they have an excuse to reprint Aysen Abbey.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Daretti is now established as a BR character lore-wise, so he's probably out. I think Dack resonates more with the audience, but that might be because he actually got a story. I don't care either way, as long as the stats are decent. When discussing which character should get a card, we tend to forget that there is a significant non-Vorthos part of the market. You know, the ones that want a spider legend that would allow them to include R, werewolf legend that actually supports werevolves, bear legend that somehow interacts with bears, etc.
BUG The Baron (it doesn't work, but I try anyway)
modern:
RGShaman Aggro
legacy:
UHigh Tide
German highlander:
BUG aggro control
EDH:
a positively unhealthy amount of decks
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think it's a kid not a midget lol. But yeah it's super creepy. It has that southern horror bayou kinda creepy level. Anyone ever see True Detective? For some reason it gives me those vibes. I'm excited to see what the card does.
Also, I would be willing to bet that the Theros Bant Commander is an Enchantment Creature judging by that artwork. It fits the Nyxborn and God art of the set almost perfectly.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Tawnos isn't a planeswalker though, so if we get him, it will be as a legendary creature and not the "face card", that said, it would be awesome to see him get a card. Another non-walker artificer which would be lovely to see get a card is Ashnod herself, but I find that unlikely in a red/blue deck considering her methods were often decidedly black.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
The genre you're looking for is Southern Gothic, and it rules.
You keep repeating the same argument ad nauseam, without providing anything of value. The spoiler season has not started yet, ergo, it has not been handled in any way yet. Instead of being glad for having some early information, you keep complaining about WotC letting us know anything at all. IIRC, there were times when no official info was available on supplementary products before reveal. Hell, first two commander products had practically no flavor, just few lines of copy stapled to the legends last minute. Just be glad that there is an actual chance for you to get your random tertiary character from a fifteen years old novel that almost no active players have read or whatever it is that you want.
BUG The Baron (it doesn't work, but I try anyway)
modern:
RGShaman Aggro
legacy:
UHigh Tide
German highlander:
BUG aggro control
EDH:
a positively unhealthy amount of decks
I think you misunderstand Tiro's point. By this time over the last few years, we've had some tidbit from WotC regarding the upcoming commander sets. The info we got at the M19 stream was the kind of info we previously got on announcement day, and even then it was usually art of a face card, such as Teferi's reveal, or the Ur-Dragon art last year. And as we got closer we got more info, including a card before the official spoiler season started. People are feeling frustrated (and rightfully so) because WotC have given us next to nothing this year to build up hype for the yearly commander product, and what little we've gotten has been incidental at best.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I think that it is cool that there will be more three color planeswalkers. I personally am rooting for a sultai planeswalker that could steal other planeswalkers abilities, some sort of spark thief that has fun planeswalker graveyard abilities.
...I still wish they had spoiled at least ONE general last week though. Or at least started spoilers this week. Waiting is hard...
I agree with Autumn that the decks will likely be very good, if not the best we've gotten now that color restrictions have been lifted. They may even meet a vast number of our expectations. But even relative to past protocol, not the best management. And I'm saying this as someone who is bursting at the seams to see Theros art.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Perhaps she has a better version of Skill Borrower's ability, wherein she becomes a copy of the top card of your library if it's a creature card? Okay, Skill Borrower can also copy activated abilities of artifact cards on top of your library, but she only copies activated abilities, and frankly I don't know that there will be enough cards like that in the deck to make her worthwhile.
Well, this year the deck colors are UR, WUB, BRG, and GWU, so unless you mean a planeswalker from Sultai and not Sultai colored (BGU) per se, I doubt that'll happen in C18.
You know, I just realized Exquisite Invention could have been URW. So close...but I'll still enjoy seeing UR get an artifact-focused deck.
Maybe one of the UR legends uses Energy? In fact, I'm hoping we get tokens, charge/energy counters, and tap/untap as the three major deck themes, though red will have a tougher time supporting tap/untap than blue. Maybe simplify down to tokens, charge counters, and energy counters? Red should be able to support all of those. Though a +1/+1 counter subtheme with Modular would make it easier to implement the Module trio, not to mention work with cards like Energy Chamber and Power Conduit. Tokens and counters, then? Artifact sacrifice also seems reasonable, since Modular works well with it.
2 Aether Swooper
2 Chief Engineer
2 Aether Chaser
3 Trophy Mage
3 Aethertorch Renegade
3 Thopter Engineer
3 Whirler Virtuoso
4 Whirler Rogue
4 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Reclusive Artificer
5 Maverick Thopterist
Artifact Creatures
1 Arcbound Worker
2 Arcbound Slith
2 Arcbound Stinger
3 Electrostatic Pummeler
4 Arcbound Crusher
4 Arcbound Reclaimer
5 Kuldotha Forgemaster
6 Triskelion
7 Myr Battlesphere
8 Arcbound Overseer
0 Hangarback Walker
0 Walking Ballista
1 Animation Module
1 Sol Ring
2 Energy Chamber
2 Decoction Module
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Aethersphere Harvester
3 Consulate Turret
3 Deadlock Trap
3 Fabrication Module
3 Golem Foundry
3 Serum Tank
3 Titan Forge
4 Aetherworks Marvel
4 Darksteel Reactor
4 Krark-Clan Ironworks
6 Gonti's Aether Heart
Enchantments
2 Era of Innovation
3 Pia's Revolution
4 Efficient Construction
4 Thopter Spy Network
Planeswalkers
3 Saheeli Rai
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Aether Hub
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Command Tower
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Dread Statuary
1 Gargoyle Castle
1 Great Furnace
1 Foundry of the Consuls
1 Highland Lake
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Mirrodin's Core
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Stalking Stones
1 Swiftwater Cliffs
10 Island
10 Mountain
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I think many people are missing that last year, we knew next to nothing for ages. We knew tribal, but not colours. We didn't know that Wizards was confirmed as one of the tribes until right before Inalla was spoiled. We had a fuzzy pic of the precon box that was leaked, and we couldn't be certain that the deck was Wizards. I remember UB Rogues being a strong contender for the last slot.I'm really happy that we have the themes. This means we have something to speculate on.
I understand your points. I wish they would go back to spoiling a card early. But they didn't. They gave us the themes, and I'm happy with that.
The product page said there would be walkers. Verhy mentioned Kamigawa. We were told that the stream would give us some art and the themes.
The stream gave us some art and the themes.
People in this thread have taken these 5 images to mean that WoTC lied about there being walkers in the product. Do you see why that's ridiculous? 5 images. No information about cards at all. They never said that they were not doing walkers. They never said that there would be no Kamigawa cards. They never said that that stream would reveal cards. They never said that they were going to give more information on the stream except for the art and the themes.
Your disappointment is from conflating three separate sources of information. Neither discounts the other. You (and others) took three separate sources of information and expected more than what they were given. That's on you.
Again, I wish they had given us more. A face card, a full card, a mechanic, a returning/new to paper character, but they didn't. They never said they were going to. Me expecting them to give that information in stream when they had told us the information they were giving us is completely unreasonable.
Also, expecting Gavin's comment to directly translate to the COMM decks is assuming too much as well. Who's to say they're not doing a Global Series: Japan and rehashing Kamigawa? Maybe a Spellbook: Tamiyo? Maybe a new supplemental product based on Kamigawa itself? Gavin doesn't only deal with Commander.
I get that. The only two qualms I have with this logic is thinking WotC owes us the early information - just because they did provide over the past few years doesn't make them obliged to do anything - and seeing Gavin's offhand comment about some form of providing Kamigawa content in an unspecified future product as related not only to the upcoming Commander decks, but even to the stream itself.
Also, why dread? There are some good arguments for Serra being Bant, as others have shown. From a functional standpoint, having a wider range of cards at your disposal is generally better (unless we are no longer seeing MtG as a game, but rather as an aesthetic extension of a story, which, to me, is a very flawed perception of a product the main aspect of which is the capacity to be used as game pieces). Don't get me wrong, I personally would have gone with a mono W Serra, but even if she is printed as Bant (if she is even present in the product at all), I think there will be more happy than unhappy customers, and that's the bottom line here.
Instead of arguing over whether WotC should have given us more information, let's try to think of reasons why they didn't. I mean, Commander is, historiaclly, a well-selling product, providing certain information in certain amounts before the actual spoilers is a pretty decent advertising strategy and we know that it works in this specific context. Marketing team should be aware of this (the discussion of actual capabilities of the WotC Marketing team are a different topic entirely, but I am aware of possible shortcomings here, hence the "should"). So why didn't they give us more info? This is an honest question: what do you think? Do they think us not knowing anything creates more hype, or do they already know that more information would kill our interest in the product early? As in, they reveal there are no characters from earlier stories - no Serra for you, no Tevesh Szat for me, etc. No Kamigawa throwbacks, the commanders are utter garbage and so on. Mind, WotC marketing strategy is conceived with US market in mind first and foremost - hype itself is a highly culture-dependent marketing strategy that definitely works for USA and Canada, but is not nearly as effective everywhere. I am certain there is a reason for the course of action they chose and I hope it's the former of the two I mention.
BUG The Baron (it doesn't work, but I try anyway)
modern:
RGShaman Aggro
legacy:
UHigh Tide
German highlander:
BUG aggro control
EDH:
a positively unhealthy amount of decks
Personally I wanted more old characters and I certainly didn't like the spider or the zombie, because they look generic. I wish the could take old characters instead of creating new ones each time. I am pretty sure there are esper oldwalkers.
My only hope is that there are more than one planeswalker per set. If not, its ok. But it would be awesome.
We already have enchantment animation (in a way) with Daxos the Returned. "Adaptive Enchantment" makes me think of Aura Swap or an enchantment version of Master Transmuter. Or enchantment duplication/cloning. Maybe enchantments that work for you as well as against your oppponents (and you can move them around)? I guess there will also be at least one aura-focused Commander in that deck.
Clerics was another one that was speculated.
But on to the actual topic. Esper topdeck will need something like Sensei's Divining Top. But that doesn't seem likely, and I will be morr than happy to eat those words.
Thassa seems like a strong contender as well, with the scry 1 ability. And seing the Theros gods in the new legend frame could be cool.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I think you may have misunderstood me, I understand why the people are complaining, but I am not one of the ones that do. Personally I am hyped with the themes. Ok, personally I wouldn't have gone with top deck shenanigans for the fourth deck, but I am interested to see what WotC will do with it.
Precisely.
The "Serra is a Mono-white planeswalker" keep forgetting that when she was introduced as a planeswalker, she was decidedly GWU aligned (In Homelands).
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I'm always more interested in the staples for my existing commanders anyhow, the new deck potentials are just a bonus.
Monowhite has a lot of good commanders:
And that is just the top of the pile. There is no reason for a mono-white Serra, particularly considering that when she was introduced as a planeswalker she was associated with three colors: Green, White, and Blue. She is more associated with enchantments and angels than with a color. But we shall see if we get her or not.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
That really depends on what your definition of 'good' is. Most of what you just listed do far better in the 99 than as the commander. No lie some of those can be really fun janky commanders; buddy of mine had a Avacyn board-wipe tribal deck that was kinda funny when it got going, but I wouldn't call it good. Of the ones you listed Kemba/Sram/Nahiri are the only good ones. The rest either don't do anything (or anything worth the cost) or are obviously overshadowed by things in dual color.
Though to be fair to your point, there are some decent mono-white commanders.
More on point though, I could see Serra going either way. She's associated with Bant colors sure enough, but the overwhelming majority of her stuff is mono-white. Bare in mind that a number of characters have been associated with colors not on their card. I do agree with you on your point that if we see a Serra card now it'd be Bant colored. No real reason to throw in a mono-white legend into a tri-colored deck.
Indeed.
Besides, I want to see the look on peoples faces if they put a Bant colored Serra Planeswalker in the enchantment deck just so they have an excuse to reprint Aysen Abbey.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
As a creature he was a mono blue Blind Seer, and he has more blue cards associated with him than other colors. How many green Urza cards can you name?
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB