With going back to Ravnica I remember a small plot thread during a story with Mazirek some time ago. At the end it alluded to a lot of buzzing, either more of Mazirek's kind or Nephilim. With the focus being on Bolas here I wonder if that plot thread will be addressed here or forgotten about.
All I can say is that those youtube comments have restored my faith in humanity. It can get depressing on Reddit because it's such a boring echo chamber. But then I see WotC getting 1.8k dislikes, I see all these people complaining about actual problems with game, quality, oversaturation and the general direction WotC is taking and I feel normal again.
Made me realize that Reddit / Twitter is an extremely small but loud minority of players. They in no way represent the pulse of the greater worldwide community. Sadly WotC only seems to listen to them and they block / dismiss every other criticism.
1.8k isn’t really representing the pulse of the greater worldwide community for a franchise as big as MtG though. That’s a small sample size with zero context on why they dislike it. Given the comments here it could just as easily be minor things as more important.
In the grand scheme of things, Alara and Zendikar were the ones that gave us the optimized fantasy sense of magic without the tropey canned location giveaways they've been doing as of late.
And that's the part that bothers me the most: why do we need an entire plane to convey a terrestrial culture trope? For example, we didn't need a plane dedicated to African/Middle Eastern culture. It was an actual location on a plane(t) with other culturally diverse locations (Jamuraa on Dominaria). Or a Scandinavian-esque culture depicted during an actual era on Dominaria (Ice Age).
If they can do more of that, I think it would calm a lot of...distaste with the direction the game's creative is going.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I could see the third set having a planeswalker theme, with lots of walkers on the Gatewatch and allies vs. Nicol Bolas and his minions.
As for returning to Ravnica again, I am not super stoked, but still somewhat alright with it. Just meh, at this point. I do expect they will have high quality commander cards, just like in most of their recent releases. But if we are doing a multicolor block on a known world, I would have celebrated a return to Alara and its shards a lot more.
Riku of Two Reflections - Copy, then copy again | Shattergang Brothers - Token Sac&Recur | Gahiji, Honored One - Multiple attack steps | Karametra, God of Harvests - Landfall, Creaturefall, Shroud | Ruhan of the Fomori - Stop hitting yourself | Zurgo Helmsmasher - Equipment&Wraths | Crosis, the Purger - Dragon Tribal Reanimator | Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - No stax, just tap and untap fun | Anafenza, the Foremost - Enduring Ideal Enchantress | Sharuum, the Hegemon - Sphinx Tribal Control | Noyan Dar - Spellslinger | The Mimeoplasm - Counterpalooza
Lists can be found here.
Still convinced the guy on Beseech the Queen is wearing a Mitra-type hat. Wake up sheeple!
In the grand scheme of things, Alara and Zendikar were the ones that gave us the optimized fantasy sense of magic without the tropey canned location giveaways they've been doing as of late.
And that's the part that bothers me the most: why do we need an entire plane to convey a terrestrial culture trope? For example, we didn't need a plane dedicated to African/Middle Eastern culture. It was an actual location on a plane(t) with other culturally diverse locations (Jamuraa on Dominaria). Or a Scandinavian-esque culture depicted during an actual era on Dominaria (Ice Age).
If they can do more of that, I think it would calm a lot of...distaste with the direction the game's creative is going.
'buster
Those are all still just Dominaria. You can’t do the unique metaphysics of each plane by having them all on the same plane. Or rather you shouldn’t.
I don’t want generic planes, which is what you’d have to do to make those work on the same plane. You have to homogenize a ton. That’s part of why I don’t like Dominaria really. It’s very generic in its own way, even if it has multiple cultures on it.
All I can say is that those youtube comments have restored my faith in humanity. It can get depressing on Reddit because it's such a boring echo chamber. But then I see WotC getting 1.8k dislikes, I see all these people complaining about actual problems with game, quality, oversaturation and the general direction WotC is taking and I feel normal again.
Made me realize that Reddit / Twitter is an extremely small but loud minority of players. They in no way represent the pulse of the greater worldwide community. Sadly WotC only seems to listen to them and they block / dismiss every other criticism.
In the comments sections I saw a lot of people complaining about cringe(warranted), and a lot of people complaining about SJWs and wanting to redpill Magic(stupid). YouTube has really devolved into a cesspool in recent years.
It's not about "red pilling" magic lol. There's this huge misconception people have when people bring up "sjws" as a problem. If you were a gamer who experienced gamergate in 2014 (media and game journalists trying to slander all gamers as sexists) or if you loved comic books and saw Marvel destroy your hobby with politics, then you know exactly why sjws can be a real problem and why they need to be opposed by all sides.
It has nothing to do with left vs right. It's about an ideology that puts identity politics and the greater good of Equity above everything else. When this ideology spreads to management, then failure becomes inevitable because the company starts hating their "toxic white male" customers, they ignore feedback out of spite, they start targetting and catering to the 0.08%, they start censoring things, banning people they don't agree with, silencing dissent and everything just spirals downwards into a catastrophic failure. This happens every.single.time.
It's just not a good idea for a company (who's main goal is to make profit) to force their political agenda onto the playerbase. Because the majority of them will leave, stop buying your products or stop playing if they don't feel welcomed. It's better to just accept the fact that diversity = diversity of cultures = divergence of opinions / religions / politics. And respect the fact that not all women, people of color or LGBTQ will share the company's values and beliefs.
I mean, you’re welcome to leave. WotC may have issues, but it’s not because of some nonsensical “SJW agenda”. The “customers should just respect they won’t share all beliefs of a company” applies to you as well. Trying to turn it into some sort of silly wrong isn’t really beneficial to anyone.
All I can say is that those youtube comments have restored my faith in humanity. It can get depressing on Reddit because it's such a boring echo chamber. But then I see WotC getting 1.8k dislikes, I see all these people complaining about actual problems with game, quality, oversaturation and the general direction WotC is taking and I feel normal again.
Made me realize that Reddit / Twitter is an extremely small but loud minority of players. They in no way represent the pulse of the greater worldwide community. Sadly WotC only seems to listen to them and they block / dismiss every other criticism.
In the comments sections I saw a lot of people complaining about cringe(warranted), and a lot of people complaining about SJWs and wanting to redpill Magic(stupid). YouTube has really devolved into a cesspool in recent years.
It's not about "red pilling" magic lol. There's this huge misconception people have when people bring up "sjws" as a problem. If you were a gamer who experienced gamergate in 2014 (media and game journalists trying to slander all gamers as sexists) or if you loved comic books and saw Marvel destroy your hobby with politics, then you know exactly why sjws can be a real problem and why they need to be opposed by all sides.
It has nothing to do with left vs right. It's about an ideology that puts identity politics and the greater good of Equity above everything else. When this ideology spreads to management, then failure becomes inevitable because the company starts hating their "toxic white male" customers, they ignore feedback out of spite, they start targetting and catering to the 0.08%, they start censoring things, banning people they don't agree with, silencing dissent and everything just spirals downwards into a catastrophic failure. This happens every.single.time.
It's just not a good idea for a company (who's main goal is to make profit) to force their political agenda onto the playerbase. Because the majority of them will leave, stop buying your products or stop playing if they don't feel welcomed. It's better to just accept the fact that diversity = diversity of cultures = divergence of opinions / religions / politics. And respect the fact that not all women, people of color or LGBTQ will share the company's values and beliefs.
I think you over-exaggerate a lot of this though. While certainly there has been some politics and recent attempts to make the game more approachable, I do not feel that WotC have been all that heavy-handed,
(except perhaps in their ruse that the Empire of Dusk ever had the possibility of inheriting the Golden City, that was a joke. Poor attempts at showing the greys in all factions)
For the most part though, it sounds like player-feedback is at an all time high. I for one have taken 3 or so surveys from MtG this year alone.
Edit:
Also not everyone who is concerned with representation, equity, etc is a “SJW”. If that were true, then the only ones left remaining outside that category would be crummy grumblers who believe the world does and should actually revolve around them.
SJW loses its meaning if it includes all critics of a status quo, haha!
The colour pie actually helps mitigate this as it requires each year that Mtg showcases heroes and villains under particular sets of philosophies. Sometimes W is comprised of mostly protagonists.
And sometimes mostly antagonists. But everyone gets a turn. Albeit Green is usually portrayed as neutral antagonistic forces than downright villains. Usually.
All I can say is that those youtube comments have restored my faith in humanity. It can get depressing on Reddit because it's such a boring echo chamber. But then I see WotC getting 1.8k dislikes, I see all these people complaining about actual problems with game, quality, oversaturation and the general direction WotC is taking and I feel normal again.
Made me realize that Reddit / Twitter is an extremely small but loud minority of players. They in no way represent the pulse of the greater worldwide community. Sadly WotC only seems to listen to them and they block / dismiss every other criticism.
In the comments sections I saw a lot of people complaining about cringe(warranted), and a lot of people complaining about SJWs and wanting to redpill Magic(stupid). YouTube has really devolved into a cesspool in recent years.
It's not about "red pilling" magic lol. There's this huge misconception people have when people bring up "sjws" as a problem. If you were a gamer who experienced gamergate in 2014 (media and game journalists trying to slander all gamers as sexists) or if you loved comic books and saw Marvel destroy your hobby with politics, then you know exactly why sjws can be a real problem and why they need to be opposed by all sides.
It has nothing to do with left vs right. It's about an ideology that puts identity politics and the greater good of Equity above everything else. When this ideology spreads to management, then failure becomes inevitable because the company starts hating their "toxic white male" customers, they ignore feedback out of spite, they start targetting and catering to the 0.08%, they start censoring things, banning people they don't agree with, silencing dissent and everything just spirals downwards into a catastrophic failure. This happens every.single.time.
It's just not a good idea for a company (who's main goal is to make profit) to force their political agenda onto the playerbase. Because the majority of them will leave, stop buying your products or stop playing if they don't feel welcomed. It's better to just accept the fact that diversity = diversity of cultures = divergence of opinions / religions / politics. And respect the fact that not all women, people of color or LGBTQ will share the company's values and beliefs.
Ok, exaggerating much? Perhabs it's because I haven't seen the announcement video (don't really care about how it's presented at all, just about the content itself), but I don't see Magic being part of some (most likely illusionary) SJW agenda. Sure, sometimes they are a bit on the nose about having more representation in the game, or there are some questionable choices on their part (I agree with OrzhovPlaneswalker that their handling of the Legion in Ixalan wasn't great), but I don't really see what exactly WotC is doing that could incite such rage from you. If you think that the presentation of the announcement left something to be desired, then what has that to do with the companies political stance? Or with a supposed (and not at all real) majority opinion that the game has gone downhill? Or with a supposed "banning" of everyone who doesn't share WotC's political stance? From what I can tell such bannings often have a reason that is not at all ideological but in fact people who ramble about SJWs have a tendency to not follow the rules of discussion on forums they are on (let's leave it at that). And one last thing to think about: You complain about echo chambers and admit that you actively search for one (youtube comments to be exact) that fits your own opinions, but instead of realizing this you claim without evidence that it is the majority opinion? Doesn't that trouble you somewhat?
In regards to Ravnica: I love the setting, it was the first block that I actually adored. I also liked the Return set, though slightly less than the original (but I really loved what they did with the Simic). So I'm actually glad to return there and for quite a while too. After that... I suggest staying away from Ravnica for a looong time. Getting back there in less than a decade would lead to drastic overexposure (which some people obviously already have problems with). For now let's just see what they do with it.
EDIT: And I must admit, I'm a bit saddened that my two favorite settings in a long time, Theros and Amonkhet seem to have such a bad rep around here. I mean, Theros I can get, at least Born of the Gods wasn't a particularly enjoyable set (though I liked Theros the set), but Amonkhet was pretty good in my opinion. I like seeing worlds created using real world mythology as an inspiration and I hope they continue to do these from time to time.
The wierdest thing to me is: As cringy as the video was, what the hell does it have to do with SJW-dom? Because one women had her hair dyed? Because there were women in it at all?
What?
Also I detest the usage of the word SJW as an insult. SJW are concerned with social justice, which is not a bad thing, far from it. Just because some individuals (whose importance and numbers are WAY overplayed by trolls on reddit and youtube) take it too far does not discredit the entire movement. That's like saying all muslims are terrorists or all vegans are militant zealots. Oh wait, people actually do believe those things...
Haha, well the reactions to my comment were predictable. There will always be friction and disagreement when it comes to politics. And I understand why the term "sjw" angers people: Some progressives identify as one so obviously they will feel attacked every time someone tries to separate the liberal left from the illiberal left (this is the intended purpose of using the term).
Now to clarify my comment: I wasn't saying this particular video is forcing an ideology. I know Maria and Meghan get a lot of hate but I think it's unjustified or overblown. These women have grown on me and I actually enjoy their cringy humor and bad puns. The cringe to me is the smallest problem with the video. The bigger issue is that it's presented as an interview but it's delivered as a comedy sketch. The questions are picked by WotC and the overly scripted reactions are not sincere. Also in a lot of their recent videos they seem to be talking to children when the average MTG player is between 20-30. This was a bad video overall and it has nothing to do with being sjw or not. Some of us see the art and the tone and are concerned about the direction they are taking is all.
Now, the whole sjw thing is not that apparent inside the game. They have certainly toned down the violence, mature themes and sexy art, but that is not that important. The real issue is not with the lore, the pronouns used or the gender / race of characters. The problem is with management, the higher ups at WotC and their general bigoted attitude. You really have to follow WotC on Twitter or Reddit to see this ideological hivemind more clearly. You have to read the articles they put out.
Magic has always had strong female characters and even an old set like Mirage is full of cool black characters. So it's foolish to say male magic players are just against diversity / representation. As if it was a new thing.
Haha, well the reactions to my comment were predictable. There will always be friction and disagreement when it comes to ideology. And I understand why the term "sjw" angers people: Some progressives identify as one so obviously they will feel attacked every time someone tries to separate the liberal left from the illiberal left (this is the intended purpose of using the term).
Now to clarify my comment: I wasn't saying this particular video is forcing an ideology. I know Maria and Meghan get a lot of hate but I think it's unjustified or overblown. These women have grown on me and I actually enjoy their cringy humor and bad puns. The cringe to me is the smallest problem with the video. The bigger issue is that it's presented as an interview but it's delivered as a comedy sketch. The questions are picked by WotC and the reactions are not sincere. Also in a lot of their recent videos they seem to be talking to children when the average MTG player is between 20-30. This was a bad video overall and it has nothing to do with being sjw or not. Some of us see the art and the tone and are concerned about the direction they are taking is all.
Now, the whole sjw thing is not that apparent inside the game. They have certainly toned down the violence, mature themes and sexy art, but that is not that important. The real issue is not with the lore, the pronouns used or the gender / race of characters. The problem is with management, the higher ups at WotC and their general bigoted attitude. You really have to follow WotC on Twitter or Reddit to see this ideological hivemind more clearly. You have to read the articles they put out.
Magic has always had strong female characters and Mirage is full of cool black characters. So it's foolish to say male magic players are just against diversity / representation. As if it was a new thing.
Err... that doesn't really clarify your previous statements at all. I quote: "But then I see WotC getting 1.8k dislikes, I see all these people complaining about actual problems with game, quality, oversaturation and the general direction WotC is taking and I feel normal again."
So is it or is it not about the game? Is it or is it not about SJWs? Is it or is it not about this announcement? Because you seem to jump between these points.
Quote 2: "So it's foolish to say male magic players are just against diversity / representation. As if it was a new thing."
So why bring it up? None of the replies were saying that and I'm pretty sure no one in the announcement said that either! It has nothing to do with anything in this thread really! Or is there something I'm missing?
Quote 3: "They have certainly toned down the violence, mature themes and sexy art, but that is not that important. The real issue is not with the lore, the pronouns used or the gender / race of characters. The problem is with management, the higher ups at WotC and their general bigoted attitude."
Sentence directly before this one: "Some of us see the art and the tone and are concerned about the direction they are taking is all."
So do you have a problem with the (according to you) relatively unproblematic game itself or not? Because if not, what was the point of any of this? This isn't a thread about problems with the WotC managements ideologies/opinions. Also: You clearly stated that "Some of us" in this case means (in your opinion) a seemingly silent majority of Magic players. Or did you actually mean only a few people think like that?
Err... that doesn't really clarify your previous statements at all. I quote: "But then I see WotC getting 1.8k dislikes, I see all these people complaining about actual problems with game, quality, oversaturation and the general direction WotC is taking and I feel normal again."
So is it or is it not about the game? Is it or is it not about SJWs? Is it or is it not about this announcement? Because you seem to jump between these points.
Quote 2: "So it's foolish to say male magic players are just against diversity / representation. As if it was a new thing."
So why bring it up? None of the replies were saying that and I'm pretty sure no one in the announcement said that either! It has nothing to do with anything in this thread really! Or is there something I'm missing?
Quote 3: "They have certainly toned down the violence, mature themes and sexy art, but that is not that important. The real issue is not with the lore, the pronouns used or the gender / race of characters. The problem is with management, the higher ups at WotC and their general bigoted attitude."
Sentence directly before this one: "Some of us see the art and the tone and are concerned about the direction they are taking is all."
So do you have a problem with the (according to you) relatively unproblematic game itself or not? Because if not, what was the point of any of this? This isn't a thread about problems with the WotC managements ideologies/opinions. Also: You clearly stated that "Some of us" in this case means (in your opinion) a seemingly silent majority of Magic players. Or did you actually mean only a few people think like that?
You seem to be looking for a pointless argument. I feel like my response was very clear so I would just be repeating myself at this point.
You can have a problem with the video, the card quality, over saturation, art direction and with the sjw mindset. It doesn't mean that all of these things are connected..
The topic of sjws was brought up by someone else because I mentioned the youtube comments of this announcement video. All I did was explain where this "anti-sjw" sentiment comes from (Gamergate and Marvel comic books. Even the cosplay community had to deal with them and their claims of white washing / cultural appropriation).
Can we just get back to the topic at hand? I’m confused as to how we even got here. The connections seem...lacking.
Agreed. Let's talk about Seattle Ravnica and Simic fall fashion.
I'm personally more excited about Winter Ravnica. Have you guys seen the new red scarf that Jace is wearing? omg it matches his green and white Christmas jacket perfectly. 0.0
Gamergaters invariably derail any discussion into talking about their pet issues and it always turns into a frustrating circular conversation because they'll never actually pin down what they're against, just make vague statements about "the direction of the game" or "compromising quality" or "groupthink" or whatever. It's exhausting to engage with.
Anyway, since I didn't bring that up earlier: I thought the costume designs they showed were dope. I get that it hasn't been that long in-storyline since RTR so it's weird to have drastic changes, but at the same time I think it'd be a missed opportunity not to go back and look at this stuff again, some of the guilds (Golgari particularly) were really lacking in a strong visual identity outside of monster-type creatures; I like the harder, more out-there creative pushing on these. It also shows that they're willing to be daring at least with the creative elements on Ravnica, which is important for doing a third return.
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On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
Can we just get back to the topic at hand? I’m confused as to how we even got here. The connections seem...lacking.
I mean they have little bearing in reality so that’s to be expected.
And I’m liking the new Golgari design. I’m hoping that I can click with them better this time.
The more time goes on I suppose the more accepting of it all I am. I want other returns, and more new planes, but I’ll deal. Honestly I wish we didn’t return to old planes as often as we went to new ones, a different ratio would be better. Hoping the separate large sets means a return to more risky places at least.
Returning to a plane (other than Dominaria) kind of opened this can of worms where Magic is creating new settings at a faster rate than it can return to them, so people will never be happy. And if R&D is doing its job right, then for every one of these settings there'll be a contingent of people who want a return to them. I don't know that Amonkhet or Ixalan are ultra-popular but there are definitely people who'll be clamoring for a return to those planes in a few years and getting super-disappointed by Kaladesh 2: Aetheric Boogaloo or something.
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On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
I wasn't thrilled initially when I heard it was another return to Ravnica so soon, although Ravnica is my favorite plane. I was half expecting, half looking forward to a return to Theros first, but the idea of Ravnica is growing on me again. I loved the original block and Return to Ravnica was IMO one of the funnest and most balanced blocks in a while. The biggest hang-up I have with this idea is that they'd. better. not. ruin. Ravnica. I don't want the plane fundamentally changed (like Alara), or primarily destroyed (like Zendikar). And faith in WOTC to not mess this up is something I have in short supply lately.
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Protection from reason (Decadent_Creed can't be blocked, targeted, dealt damage, or enchanted by reason.)
Can we just get back to the topic at hand? I’m confused as to how we even got here. The connections seem...lacking.
I mean they have little bearing in reality so that’s to be expected.
And I’m liking the new Golgari design. I’m hoping that I can click with them better this time.
The more time goes on I suppose the more accepting of it all I am. I want other returns, and more new planes, but I’ll deal. Honestly I wish we didn’t return to old planes as often as we went to new ones, a different ratio would be better. Hoping the separate large sets means a return to more risky places at least.
Sorry, didn't want to derail this any further, just wanted the discussion to get to the point (which I feel was still missing, but let's just drop the issue). From what I can tell WotC still wants to push a 50/50 ratio in the long run. I mean, before Dominaria we went to three (more like 2.5 because Kaladesh was also in Origins) new worlds, so a return was pretty much a given. Now it's four return sets, so I guess after Ravnica we'll get to a new plane. No worries. Something that is kind of unfortunate though is the fact that IF they return to a world they'll always go with the least risky options (i.e. very popular planes). They even had to compromise on Dominaria (one set there, then popular "safe" option Ravnica next and if Dominaria succeeds a return in the not too distant future instead of two Dominaria sets) because they feared that many people, especially newer players, didn't even have a connection to the plane. Whether you agree with them on this or not, it's very probable that if they experiment again it will be at best like Dominaria, one odd set with a faster return later on or a new world.
I figure three sets in one plane is a very rare confluence of events that Wizards isn't keen on repeating. It's a combination of storyline stuff, Ravnica being the most popular setting in the game, and needing at least two sets for Ravnica in the first place.
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On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
Can we just get back to the topic at hand? I’m confused as to how we even got here. The connections seem...lacking.
Agreed. Let's talk about Seattle Ravnica and Simic fall fashion.
I'm personally more excited about Winter Ravnica. Have you guys seen the new red scarf that Jace is wearing? omg it matches his green and white Christmas jacket perfectly. 0.0
You might say this in jest (cannot be certain), but this actually has more relevance to the announcement than the pony you previously rode!
I’m actually excited to see Ravnica in a different light.
If I’m gonna be stuck on Ravnica for an entire year then yes, I want to see all its seasons lol!
Ravnica Christmas (Guildpact festival?), Ravnica Hanukah, Ravnica Pioneer Day (or instead some other obscure cultural holiday), Ravnica Canada Day
-I want it all.
(No, I’m not serious on these, much)
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
With 3 sets of Ravnica I get a distinct feeling of Groundhog Day.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Can we just get back to the topic at hand? I’m confused as to how we even got here. The connections seem...lacking.
I mean they have little bearing in reality so that’s to be expected.
And I’m liking the new Golgari design. I’m hoping that I can click with them better this time.
The more time goes on I suppose the more accepting of it all I am. I want other returns, and more new planes, but I’ll deal. Honestly I wish we didn’t return to old planes as often as we went to new ones, a different ratio would be better. Hoping the separate large sets means a return to more risky places at least.
Sorry, didn't want to derail this any further, just wanted the discussion to get to the point (which I feel was still missing, but let's just drop the issue). From what I can tell WotC still wants to push a 50/50 ratio in the long run. I mean, before Dominaria we went to three (more like 2.5 because Kaladesh was also in Origins) new worlds, so a return was pretty much a given. Now it's four return sets, so I guess after Ravnica we'll get to a new plane. No worries. Something that is kind of unfortunate though is the fact that IF they return to a world they'll always go with the least risky options (i.e. very popular planes). They even had to compromise on Dominaria (one set there, then popular "safe" option Ravnica next and if Dominaria succeeds a return in the not too distant future instead of two Dominaria sets) because they feared that many people, especially newer players, didn't even have a connection to the plane. Whether you agree with them on this or not, it's very probable that if they experiment again it will be at best like Dominaria, one odd set with a faster return later on or a new world.
I know it’s still meant to be 50:50. I wish it was more like 25:75 in favor of new planes. Alternatively the returns could be to places I like more, of the return sets they’ve done the only one I really liked was RtR. But it’s fine, it’ll change as it does. Curious what the new place will be after RtR though. I hope they go to a slightly more even ratio after this too.
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1.8k isn’t really representing the pulse of the greater worldwide community for a franchise as big as MtG though. That’s a small sample size with zero context on why they dislike it. Given the comments here it could just as easily be minor things as more important.
And that's the part that bothers me the most: why do we need an entire plane to convey a terrestrial culture trope? For example, we didn't need a plane dedicated to African/Middle Eastern culture. It was an actual location on a plane(t) with other culturally diverse locations (Jamuraa on Dominaria). Or a Scandinavian-esque culture depicted during an actual era on Dominaria (Ice Age).
If they can do more of that, I think it would calm a lot of...distaste with the direction the game's creative is going.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
As for returning to Ravnica again, I am not super stoked, but still somewhat alright with it. Just meh, at this point. I do expect they will have high quality commander cards, just like in most of their recent releases. But if we are doing a multicolor block on a known world, I would have celebrated a return to Alara and its shards a lot more.
Tamanoa - Welcome to the Jungle
Lists can be found here.
Those are all still just Dominaria. You can’t do the unique metaphysics of each plane by having them all on the same plane. Or rather you shouldn’t.
I don’t want generic planes, which is what you’d have to do to make those work on the same plane. You have to homogenize a ton. That’s part of why I don’t like Dominaria really. It’s very generic in its own way, even if it has multiple cultures on it.
It's not about "red pilling" magic lol. There's this huge misconception people have when people bring up "sjws" as a problem. If you were a gamer who experienced gamergate in 2014 (media and game journalists trying to slander all gamers as sexists) or if you loved comic books and saw Marvel destroy your hobby with politics, then you know exactly why sjws can be a real problem and why they need to be opposed by all sides.
It has nothing to do with left vs right. It's about an ideology that puts identity politics and the greater good of Equity above everything else. When this ideology spreads to management, then failure becomes inevitable because the company starts hating their "toxic white male" customers, they ignore feedback out of spite, they start targetting and catering to the 0.08%, they start censoring things, banning people they don't agree with, silencing dissent and everything just spirals downwards into a catastrophic failure. This happens every.single.time.
It's just not a good idea for a company (who's main goal is to make profit) to force their political agenda onto the playerbase. Because the majority of them will leave, stop buying your products or stop playing if they don't feel welcomed. It's better to just accept the fact that diversity = diversity of cultures = divergence of opinions / religions / politics. And respect the fact that not all women, people of color or LGBTQ will share the company's values and beliefs.
I think you over-exaggerate a lot of this though. While certainly there has been some politics and recent attempts to make the game more approachable, I do not feel that WotC have been all that heavy-handed,
(except perhaps in their ruse that the Empire of Dusk ever had the possibility of inheriting the Golden City, that was a joke. Poor attempts at showing the greys in all factions)
For the most part though, it sounds like player-feedback is at an all time high. I for one have taken 3 or so surveys from MtG this year alone.
Edit:
Also not everyone who is concerned with representation, equity, etc is a “SJW”. If that were true, then the only ones left remaining outside that category would be crummy grumblers who believe the world does and should actually revolve around them.
SJW loses its meaning if it includes all critics of a status quo, haha!
The colour pie actually helps mitigate this as it requires each year that Mtg showcases heroes and villains under particular sets of philosophies. Sometimes W is comprised of mostly protagonists.
And sometimes mostly antagonists. But everyone gets a turn. Albeit Green is usually portrayed as neutral antagonistic forces than downright villains. Usually.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Ok, exaggerating much? Perhabs it's because I haven't seen the announcement video (don't really care about how it's presented at all, just about the content itself), but I don't see Magic being part of some (most likely illusionary) SJW agenda. Sure, sometimes they are a bit on the nose about having more representation in the game, or there are some questionable choices on their part (I agree with OrzhovPlaneswalker that their handling of the Legion in Ixalan wasn't great), but I don't really see what exactly WotC is doing that could incite such rage from you. If you think that the presentation of the announcement left something to be desired, then what has that to do with the companies political stance? Or with a supposed (and not at all real) majority opinion that the game has gone downhill? Or with a supposed "banning" of everyone who doesn't share WotC's political stance? From what I can tell such bannings often have a reason that is not at all ideological but in fact people who ramble about SJWs have a tendency to not follow the rules of discussion on forums they are on (let's leave it at that). And one last thing to think about: You complain about echo chambers and admit that you actively search for one (youtube comments to be exact) that fits your own opinions, but instead of realizing this you claim without evidence that it is the majority opinion? Doesn't that trouble you somewhat?
In regards to Ravnica: I love the setting, it was the first block that I actually adored. I also liked the Return set, though slightly less than the original (but I really loved what they did with the Simic). So I'm actually glad to return there and for quite a while too. After that... I suggest staying away from Ravnica for a looong time. Getting back there in less than a decade would lead to drastic overexposure (which some people obviously already have problems with). For now let's just see what they do with it.
EDIT: And I must admit, I'm a bit saddened that my two favorite settings in a long time, Theros and Amonkhet seem to have such a bad rep around here. I mean, Theros I can get, at least Born of the Gods wasn't a particularly enjoyable set (though I liked Theros the set), but Amonkhet was pretty good in my opinion. I like seeing worlds created using real world mythology as an inspiration and I hope they continue to do these from time to time.
What?
Also I detest the usage of the word SJW as an insult. SJW are concerned with social justice, which is not a bad thing, far from it. Just because some individuals (whose importance and numbers are WAY overplayed by trolls on reddit and youtube) take it too far does not discredit the entire movement. That's like saying all muslims are terrorists or all vegans are militant zealots. Oh wait, people actually do believe those things...
Now to clarify my comment: I wasn't saying this particular video is forcing an ideology. I know Maria and Meghan get a lot of hate but I think it's unjustified or overblown. These women have grown on me and I actually enjoy their cringy humor and bad puns. The cringe to me is the smallest problem with the video. The bigger issue is that it's presented as an interview but it's delivered as a comedy sketch. The questions are picked by WotC and the overly scripted reactions are not sincere. Also in a lot of their recent videos they seem to be talking to children when the average MTG player is between 20-30. This was a bad video overall and it has nothing to do with being sjw or not. Some of us see the art and the tone and are concerned about the direction they are taking is all.
Now, the whole sjw thing is not that apparent inside the game. They have certainly toned down the violence, mature themes and sexy art, but that is not that important. The real issue is not with the lore, the pronouns used or the gender / race of characters. The problem is with management, the higher ups at WotC and their general bigoted attitude. You really have to follow WotC on Twitter or Reddit to see this ideological hivemind more clearly. You have to read the articles they put out.
Magic has always had strong female characters and even an old set like Mirage is full of cool black characters. So it's foolish to say male magic players are just against diversity / representation. As if it was a new thing.
Err... that doesn't really clarify your previous statements at all. I quote: "But then I see WotC getting 1.8k dislikes, I see all these people complaining about actual problems with game, quality, oversaturation and the general direction WotC is taking and I feel normal again."
So is it or is it not about the game? Is it or is it not about SJWs? Is it or is it not about this announcement? Because you seem to jump between these points.
Quote 2: "So it's foolish to say male magic players are just against diversity / representation. As if it was a new thing."
So why bring it up? None of the replies were saying that and I'm pretty sure no one in the announcement said that either! It has nothing to do with anything in this thread really! Or is there something I'm missing?
Quote 3: "They have certainly toned down the violence, mature themes and sexy art, but that is not that important. The real issue is not with the lore, the pronouns used or the gender / race of characters. The problem is with management, the higher ups at WotC and their general bigoted attitude."
Sentence directly before this one: "Some of us see the art and the tone and are concerned about the direction they are taking is all."
So do you have a problem with the (according to you) relatively unproblematic game itself or not? Because if not, what was the point of any of this? This isn't a thread about problems with the WotC managements ideologies/opinions. Also: You clearly stated that "Some of us" in this case means (in your opinion) a seemingly silent majority of Magic players. Or did you actually mean only a few people think like that?
You seem to be looking for a pointless argument. I feel like my response was very clear so I would just be repeating myself at this point.
You can have a problem with the video, the card quality, over saturation, art direction and with the sjw mindset. It doesn't mean that all of these things are connected..
The topic of sjws was brought up by someone else because I mentioned the youtube comments of this announcement video. All I did was explain where this "anti-sjw" sentiment comes from (Gamergate and Marvel comic books. Even the cosplay community had to deal with them and their claims of white washing / cultural appropriation).
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Agreed. Let's talk about Seattle Ravnica and Simic fall fashion.
I'm personally more excited about Winter Ravnica. Have you guys seen the new red scarf that Jace is wearing? omg it matches his green and white Christmas jacket perfectly. 0.0
Anyway, since I didn't bring that up earlier: I thought the costume designs they showed were dope. I get that it hasn't been that long in-storyline since RTR so it's weird to have drastic changes, but at the same time I think it'd be a missed opportunity not to go back and look at this stuff again, some of the guilds (Golgari particularly) were really lacking in a strong visual identity outside of monster-type creatures; I like the harder, more out-there creative pushing on these. It also shows that they're willing to be daring at least with the creative elements on Ravnica, which is important for doing a third return.
I mean they have little bearing in reality so that’s to be expected.
And I’m liking the new Golgari design. I’m hoping that I can click with them better this time.
The more time goes on I suppose the more accepting of it all I am. I want other returns, and more new planes, but I’ll deal. Honestly I wish we didn’t return to old planes as often as we went to new ones, a different ratio would be better. Hoping the separate large sets means a return to more risky places at least.
Sorry, didn't want to derail this any further, just wanted the discussion to get to the point (which I feel was still missing, but let's just drop the issue). From what I can tell WotC still wants to push a 50/50 ratio in the long run. I mean, before Dominaria we went to three (more like 2.5 because Kaladesh was also in Origins) new worlds, so a return was pretty much a given. Now it's four return sets, so I guess after Ravnica we'll get to a new plane. No worries. Something that is kind of unfortunate though is the fact that IF they return to a world they'll always go with the least risky options (i.e. very popular planes). They even had to compromise on Dominaria (one set there, then popular "safe" option Ravnica next and if Dominaria succeeds a return in the not too distant future instead of two Dominaria sets) because they feared that many people, especially newer players, didn't even have a connection to the plane. Whether you agree with them on this or not, it's very probable that if they experiment again it will be at best like Dominaria, one odd set with a faster return later on or a new world.
You might say this in jest (cannot be certain), but this actually has more relevance to the announcement than the pony you previously rode!
I’m actually excited to see Ravnica in a different light.
If I’m gonna be stuck on Ravnica for an entire year then yes, I want to see all its seasons lol!
Ravnica Christmas (Guildpact festival?), Ravnica Hanukah, Ravnica Pioneer Day (or instead some other obscure cultural holiday), Ravnica Canada Day
-I want it all.
(No, I’m not serious on these, much)
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I know it’s still meant to be 50:50. I wish it was more like 25:75 in favor of new planes. Alternatively the returns could be to places I like more, of the return sets they’ve done the only one I really liked was RtR. But it’s fine, it’ll change as it does. Curious what the new place will be after RtR though. I hope they go to a slightly more even ratio after this too.