Section 6.3 (Standard Format): This section has been updated to account for the new Buy-a-Box promos that are part of an expansion, but do not appear in that expansion's boosters.
This seems to indicate that there will be more on the horizon, and indeed with the design & printing lead time for cards, I would expect to see another unique buy-a-box promo for C19, if not the fall set as well.
I just don't see how this doesn't blow up in a negative way the second they slip and print something competitive. Very disappointed.
My LGS sells boxes for $110 USD and dominaria can be had for sub $90 online. I get throwing the brick and motor guys a bone, but there has to be better ways of doing it.
What they need is a release valve so they can more broadly release the promo card later, preferably with variant art (so as to maintain the uniqueness of the original promo).
From what I can see on TCG Player, the Firesong & Sunspeaker promo is at $20, if this becomes a trend, can we expect box prices to go up (i.e., LGS begins to charge more for playable exclusives?)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I don't need to have the perfect plan. My foe just has to have an imperfect one."
From what I can see on TCG Player, the Firesong & Sunspeaker promo is at $20, if this becomes a trend, can we expect box prices to go up (i.e., LGS begins to charge more for playable exclusives?)
I think the Minotaur Clerics are at $20 because they're new, shiny, and collectable. I think it has nothing to do with playability. The card sucks in standard, sucks in EDH, and was pretty much just designed for Brawl. The price might stay at $20, but since it wont see play, I expect the price to go down.
Yes, the continuation of box promos will present $20 chase collectable cards, but if they manage to continue this trend of printing fringe cards that only appeal to a few players, it shouldn't be a problem. Hopefully WOTC has learned from cards like True Name Nemesis about what these cards of limited availability can do, price wise, and I think it shows that they learned by printing this junk EDH fodder.
This is a bad road to go down. A card that sees play in no competitive formats, is only somewhat desirable in commander and is from the newest set shouldn't be near $20. Muldrotha, THE hypest commander in the set and a MYTHIC RARE for Karona's sake is $8.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
This is a bad road to go down. A card that sees play in no competitive formats, is only somewhat desirable in commander and is from the newest set shouldn't be near $20. Muldrotha, THE hypest commander in the set and a MYTHIC RARE for Karona's sake is $8.
The current price point is not relevant, the set isn't officially out yet and not everyone got their pre-orders during prerelease weekend. The price will settle down some in the next week or so.
This is terrible road for them to go down because they will at some point screw up and make a card that is constructed-playable or a format staple.
This doesn't seem to me like it's hinting at more unique promos, but rather that there is now explicit tournament recognition for uniqr promo cards, saying they are indeed legal in whatever standard set they come with. It's more of a "okay we made this thing, now we have to clarify the rules for it and anything that could possibly come out in the future that falls into the same category" type thing.
This doesn't seem to me like it's hinting at more unique promos, but rather that there is now explicit tournament recognition for uniqr promo cards, saying they are indeed legal in whatever standard set they come with. It's more of a "okay we made this thing, now we have to clarify the rules for it and anything that could possibly come out in the future that falls into the same category" type thing.
This. WOTC has already acknowledged the massive pushback against these; just because it's plural doesn't actually indicate they plan to make a billion more.
The only way to obtain it is through limited supply which definitely deserved the pushback. As lets say the Buy-A-Box-Only promo was actually something like a Carnage Tyrant with Ixalan, it would be much higher priced than $20 now and the fact that one would want 4x copies of it easily means it would be extremely expensive.
Personally, I think that the only reason we're getting more Buy-a-Box-Only promos is because they've already been finalized and they can't be changed at this point. Maro has been trying to direct peoples disappointments with Firesong and Sunspeaker over to the department that can prevent this from happening further so I doubt this is still being done because they think it's a well received idea. Either that, or the the promos will be Buy-a-Box-Only for a limited time, then distributed out some other fashion.
Personally, I think that the only reason we're getting more Buy-a-Box-Only promos is because they've already been finalized and they can't be changed at this point. Maro has been trying to direct peoples disappointments with Firesong and Sunspeaker over to the department that can prevent this from happening further so I doubt this is still being done because they think it's a well received idea. Either that, or the the promos will be Buy-a-Box-Only for a limited time, then distributed out some other fashion.
link to that department?
i want to voice my concerns. i really like the set, the preorder price is much lower than the cost after release. i supported this bull***** by preordering just to get a box at a lower price, not because of the promo, but because i bought the box the sales data will support that promo. i shouldn't have bought the box because of this, but i also really enjoy this set for a huge variety of reasons.
Prior to this change, buy-a-box promos were almost always awful, and if this card is an indicator of quality going forward, they will continue to be awful. So really, not much has changed. Like others have said though, if they print something good, a staple even, people are gonna be ultra pissed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
This is a bad road to go down. A card that sees play in no competitive formats, is only somewhat desirable in commander and is from the newest set shouldn't be near $20. Muldrotha, THE hypest commander in the set and a MYTHIC RARE for Karona's sake is $8.
I mean, Karn, Scion of Urza is worth twice as much as Firesong and Sunspeaker as of the posting of this comment, and there's no way that he'll maintain that. There are plenty of problems with buy-a-box only cards, but let's leave price on prerelease weekend out of that discussion.
As I stated back when we first found out about Firesong and Sunspeaker, I thought there was already a big uproar over Nalathni Dragon being a convention exclusive way back when, and that WotC had long ago learned its lesson about cards that you can only get as promos. I seriously have no idea why WotC didn't think there'd be pushback against this.
Section 6.3 (Standard Format): This section has been updated to account for the new Buy-a-Box promos that are part of an expansion, but do not appear in that expansion's boosters.
This seems to indicate that there will be more on the horizon, and indeed with the design & printing lead time for cards, I would expect to see another unique buy-a-box promo for C19, if not the fall set as well.
Not surprising. Even if they fare poorly and will be discontinued, the feedback won't be in after just one set. And this is not the kind of promotional thing to be done just for Dominaria specifically since there is nothing regarding the set that makes this kind of promo card more fitting to it than any other arbitrary set.
As long as the promos eventually all show up in unlimited supplemental sets. Just let the exclusive nature be temporary, please.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
WotC generally works about 2 years ahead of time, which means the decision to create these BAB promos was already made around 2 years ago. Considering this decision definitely required R&D to proceed (they had to create the cards after all) and involved a Standard set, I wouldn't be surprised if it is one of those decisions that needs the tail end of the 2 years gap to reverse, but then again they could scrap the promo of the later sets (and save the unique card designs for future use, Firesong and Sunspeaker seemed generic enough) and replace it with one of an existing card in those sets, but there're probably many other factors involved (art for example could be a lengthy process) that at the very best I can see them backtracking a year, which means we're definitely seeing unique BAB promos for the next 3 sets, although it could potentially run for another 4 (a year).
The good news is they got the feedback loud and clear even before Dominaria released, so if they reversed the decision immediately but didn't backtrack on already completed sets, the absolute worst case should result in another 7 of such sets/promos (as I said 3 + 4). Another saving grace is that there's no Reserve-List-Clause on these, so they're all fair game for supplementary sets, although it must be stated even those run at least 1 year in advance, so its unlikely the first 4 promos will see a timely reprint to increase numbers while they are in Standard... but considering they did mention they were careful about designing these cards, it's also very unlikely the first 4 will be played competitively in Standard for the worst case scenario to occur.
In case anyone doubts the 2-year clause, I would point out the Card Stock issues (I know its not completely fixed, but its was an undeniable improvement attempt there) and the FNM reversal issues all took quite an amount of time and neither looked like they directly involved R&D (which I said is the most forward-working department).
Two years is not actually a hard and fast rule. There were several times maro and others referenced last minute changes to amonkhet-ixalan in response to standard problems. For example, in this article:https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/amonkhet-and-standard-mailbag-2017-05-26 they talk about changes to amonkhet and hour of devastation in response to the change from 18 month to 24 month standard rotation. Assuming they made this decision sometime during SOI/EMN standard, this means cards were changing ~1 year prior to release. Because these promos aren't developed with the rest of the set, they may be finalized even later, in which case we could see the return to normal buy a box promos much sooner than two years.
Two years is not actually a hard and fast rule. There were several times maro and others referenced last minute changes to amonkhet-ixalan in response to standard problems. For example, in this article:https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/amonkhet-and-standard-mailbag-2017-05-26 they talk about changes to amonkhet and hour of devastation in response to the change from 18 month to 24 month standard rotation. Assuming they made this decision sometime during SOI/EMN standard, this means cards were changing ~1 year prior to release. Because these promos aren't developed with the rest of the set, they may be finalized even later, in which case we could see the return to normal buy a box promos much sooner than two years.
They have a /FEW/ cards and slots that they can, and do, tinker with just prior to the set getting printed. It’s not a lot and new cards are rarely inserted.
Personally I rather like the BAB promo being exclusive, however I would like to see them change the way they are distributed and put into the boxes instead of at the LGS discretion to hand out as many have been screwing people over
Personally, I think that the only reason we're getting more Buy-a-Box-Only promos is because they've already been finalized and they can't be changed at this point. Maro has been trying to direct peoples disappointments with Firesong and Sunspeaker over to the department that can prevent this from happening further so I doubt this is still being done because they think it's a well received idea. Either that, or the the promos will be Buy-a-Box-Only for a limited time, then distributed out some other fashion.
link to that department?
i want to voice my concerns. i really like the set, the preorder price is much lower than the cost after release. i supported this bull***** by preordering just to get a box at a lower price, not because of the promo, but because i bought the box the sales data will support that promo. i shouldn't have bought the box because of this, but i also really enjoy this set for a huge variety of reasons.
Unfortunately I don't have a link. All I know is that people who have been giving their grievances to Maro, who then directs to the right people.
I just don't see how this doesn't blow up in a negative way the second they slip and print something competitive. Very disappointed.
My LGS sells boxes for $110 USD and dominaria can be had for sub $90 online. I get throwing the brick and motor guys a bone, but there has to be better ways of doing it.
Like what? People are so price sensitive that they expect something tangible to cover that $20 difference or else they wouldn't buy at the LGS. What promo would get you to spend that extra $20?
What they need is a release valve so they can more broadly release the promo card later, preferably with variant art (so as to maintain the uniqueness of the original promo).
Easy enough to do, just print it in a nearby core or masters set with new art.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
What they need is a release valve so they can more broadly release the promo card later, preferably with variant art (so as to maintain the uniqueness of the original promo).
Easy enough to do, just print it in a nearby core or masters set with new art.
If the buy a box was a set shifted rare/mythic from a forthcoming set (like core 19 rare as a promo in dominaria) I would be okay with it. It's actually a good idea. If the card is busted and tournament worthy, you have relief in 3-6 months depending on how far out the print run is. Throws local guys a gimmick for selling boxes and doesn't throw the competitive scene into disarray if they miss the mark.
Could you imagine if something like smuggler's copter or aetherwork's marvel was a bab only promo for kld to show off a set's theme? With no other release scheduled?
What if they made BAB promos silver border cards in the future? Granted, I get they want to give players incentive to buy boxes, and cards that can be played at FNM are more compelling than cards that can't.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This seems to indicate that there will be more on the horizon, and indeed with the design & printing lead time for cards, I would expect to see another unique buy-a-box promo for C19, if not the fall set as well.
My LGS sells boxes for $110 USD and dominaria can be had for sub $90 online. I get throwing the brick and motor guys a bone, but there has to be better ways of doing it.
What they need is a release valve so they can more broadly release the promo card later, preferably with variant art (so as to maintain the uniqueness of the original promo).
[Commander] Rafiq of the Many (Tier 1)
[Commander] Marchesa, the Black Rose (Tier 1)
[Commander] Five Color Artifacts (Tier 2)
I think the Minotaur Clerics are at $20 because they're new, shiny, and collectable. I think it has nothing to do with playability. The card sucks in standard, sucks in EDH, and was pretty much just designed for Brawl. The price might stay at $20, but since it wont see play, I expect the price to go down.
Yes, the continuation of box promos will present $20 chase collectable cards, but if they manage to continue this trend of printing fringe cards that only appeal to a few players, it shouldn't be a problem. Hopefully WOTC has learned from cards like True Name Nemesis about what these cards of limited availability can do, price wise, and I think it shows that they learned by printing this junk EDH fodder.
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
-Chandra Nalaar
The current price point is not relevant, the set isn't officially out yet and not everyone got their pre-orders during prerelease weekend. The price will settle down some in the next week or so.
This is terrible road for them to go down because they will at some point screw up and make a card that is constructed-playable or a format staple.
This. WOTC has already acknowledged the massive pushback against these; just because it's plural doesn't actually indicate they plan to make a billion more.
link to that department?
i want to voice my concerns. i really like the set, the preorder price is much lower than the cost after release. i supported this bull***** by preordering just to get a box at a lower price, not because of the promo, but because i bought the box the sales data will support that promo. i shouldn't have bought the box because of this, but i also really enjoy this set for a huge variety of reasons.
My 720 Peasant Cube
I mean, Karn, Scion of Urza is worth twice as much as Firesong and Sunspeaker as of the posting of this comment, and there's no way that he'll maintain that. There are plenty of problems with buy-a-box only cards, but let's leave price on prerelease weekend out of that discussion.
Not surprising. Even if they fare poorly and will be discontinued, the feedback won't be in after just one set. And this is not the kind of promotional thing to be done just for Dominaria specifically since there is nothing regarding the set that makes this kind of promo card more fitting to it than any other arbitrary set.
As long as the promos eventually all show up in unlimited supplemental sets. Just let the exclusive nature be temporary, please.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
The good news is they got the feedback loud and clear even before Dominaria released, so if they reversed the decision immediately but didn't backtrack on already completed sets, the absolute worst case should result in another 7 of such sets/promos (as I said 3 + 4). Another saving grace is that there's no Reserve-List-Clause on these, so they're all fair game for supplementary sets, although it must be stated even those run at least 1 year in advance, so its unlikely the first 4 promos will see a timely reprint to increase numbers while they are in Standard... but considering they did mention they were careful about designing these cards, it's also very unlikely the first 4 will be played competitively in Standard for the worst case scenario to occur.
In case anyone doubts the 2-year clause, I would point out the Card Stock issues (I know its not completely fixed, but its was an undeniable improvement attempt there) and the FNM reversal issues all took quite an amount of time and neither looked like they directly involved R&D (which I said is the most forward-working department).
They have a /FEW/ cards and slots that they can, and do, tinker with just prior to the set getting printed. It’s not a lot and new cards are rarely inserted.
Personally I rather like the BAB promo being exclusive, however I would like to see them change the way they are distributed and put into the boxes instead of at the LGS discretion to hand out as many have been screwing people over
Unfortunately I don't have a link. All I know is that people who have been giving their grievances to Maro, who then directs to the right people.
Like what? People are so price sensitive that they expect something tangible to cover that $20 difference or else they wouldn't buy at the LGS. What promo would get you to spend that extra $20?
Easy enough to do, just print it in a nearby core or masters set with new art.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
If the buy a box was a set shifted rare/mythic from a forthcoming set (like core 19 rare as a promo in dominaria) I would be okay with it. It's actually a good idea. If the card is busted and tournament worthy, you have relief in 3-6 months depending on how far out the print run is. Throws local guys a gimmick for selling boxes and doesn't throw the competitive scene into disarray if they miss the mark.
Could you imagine if something like smuggler's copter or aetherwork's marvel was a bab only promo for kld to show off a set's theme? With no other release scheduled?
This would be cool I think, and should be suggested to wotzee.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.