Like the generic B&R list, probably holding off on making any sudden moves until Dominaria proves itself with the new legendary and legendary-related cards that will release this week.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I wouldn't have minded seeing a Paradox Engine ban, tbh. There's a few players in my lgs who think it's the neatest combo engine ever and will do their best to spam it at any given opportunity. I think it's a powerful piece in its own, but it could just be my meta where it's an issue and isn't a problem across the board.
I disagree with Paradox Engine being banned. It's a really neat card. I love it.
I think Iona should be banned. There's good justification for why it is not, but I don't feel like her being "one of the Mono-chrome drawbacks" is a valid point. The inherent drawbacks of a single color are enough of a hindrance.
I think Gifts Ungiven should be unbanned. Or at least would like it to be.
Consecrated Sphinx is annoying and IMO should be banned. Not that it does all that much, but something about it bothers me.
I think Eminence abilities in Commander defeat the spirit of the format. Enough to ban? Probably not. But IDK.
I disagree with Paradox Engine being banned. It's a really neat card. I love it.
I think Iona should be banned. There's good justification for why it is not, but I don't feel like her being "one of the Mono-chrome drawbacks" is a valid point. The inherent drawbacks of a single color are enough of a hindrance.
I think Gifts Ungiven should be unbanned. Or at least would like it to be.
Consecrated Sphinx is annoying and IMO should be banned. Not that it does all that much, but something about it bothers me.
I think Eminence abilities in Commander defeat the spirit of the format. Enough to ban? Probably not. But IDK.
Paradox Engine is, by and large, my favourite artifact and I always try to find an excuse to use it in every artifact EDH deck I cobble together. That said, it is a pretty busted card which should never be allowed to resolve, and that makes it understandable to ban IMO.
For Eminence, I think it's fine as long as the Eminence abilities are relatively tame and passive like Ur-Dragon. Inalla and Edgar Markov really push the envelope though. Being able to combo off with a combo piece your opponents can't interact with, or spawn a bunch of 1/1s with a token generator you don't pay anything for and your opponents can't interact with is poor design IMO.
Iona and Sphinx are stupid, but I don't see either of them getting axed anytime soon, and I have no strong opinions on Gifts Ungiven.
I disagree with Paradox Engine being banned. It's a really neat card. I love it.
Agreed. I'm not a combo player generally, so I just like to use it to basically do more stuff on my turn.
I think Iona should be banned. There's good justification for why it is not, but I don't feel like her being "one of the Mono-chrome drawbacks" is a valid point. The inherent drawbacks of a single color are enough of a hindrance.
Agreed again. Being able to shut a player out of the game entirely with a single card is oppressive. What are the mono-color player's options, just Duplicant or Scour from Existence?
I think Eminence abilities in Commander defeat the spirit of the format. Enough to ban? Probably not. But IDK.
I agree that it's not bannable necessarily, but I really hate that mechanic. Having such huge upsides for no effort or investment is really lame. Mechanics related to the command zone are fine in theory, like the C13 commanders, but eminence rubs me the wrong way. I want to build a Mardu vampire deck, but I won't use Edgar Markov out of principal.
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Emminence should go. Getting advantages without ever casting your commander seems wrong.
The funny thing is that Inalla is the only Eminence commander that would be hit pretty hard, since most of the combos she's now infamous for rely on not needing to cast her.
I disagree with Paradox Engine being banned. It's a really neat card. I love it.
I think Iona should be banned. There's good justification for why it is not, but I don't feel like her being "one of the Mono-chrome drawbacks" is a valid point. The inherent drawbacks of a single color are enough of a hindrance.
I think Gifts Ungiven should be unbanned. Or at least would like it to be.
Consecrated Sphinx is annoying and IMO should be banned. Not that it does all that much, but something about it bothers me.
I think Eminence abilities in Commander defeat the spirit of the format. Enough to ban? Probably not. But IDK.
If you think Consecrated Sphinx is annoying, try playing it and having your opponent make five copies of it via a kicked Rite of Replication. Infinite Card Draw! Got an opponent to deck himself with that. He was down to three cards when he decided to stop drawing cards. Cue a Stroke of Genius later...
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Real talk, I want Prophet of Kruphix unbanned. It's definitely powerful, but there are plenty of other ridiculous things of similar power that are still legal. I don't know if this is an unpopular viewpoint or not.
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Real talk, I want Prophet of Kruphix unbanned. It's definitely powerful, but there are plenty of other ridiculous things of similar power that are still legal. I don't know if this is an unpopular viewpoint or not.
The real issue with that card is if multiple people have it it's like sitting through even more turns to get to yours. Even in three players games when two have it the other person sits there and wonders as the other two players having another two turns each to themselves to play things.
I disagree with Paradox Engine being banned. It's a really neat card. I love it.
I think Iona should be banned. There's good justification for why it is not, but I don't feel like her being "one of the Mono-chrome drawbacks" is a valid point. The inherent drawbacks of a single color are enough of a hindrance.
I think Gifts Ungiven should be unbanned. Or at least would like it to be.
Consecrated Sphinx is annoying and IMO should be banned. Not that it does all that much, but something about it bothers me.
I think Eminence abilities in Commander defeat the spirit of the format. Enough to ban? Probably not. But IDK.
If you think Consecrated Sphinx is annoying, try playing it and having your opponent make five copies of it via a kicked Rite of Replication. Infinite Card Draw! Got an opponent to deck himself with that. He was down to three cards when he decided to stop drawing cards. Cue a Stroke of Genius later...
Actually, that's exactly why I find it annoying. It's a form of Trade Secrets for people who have it or can clone it. I say get rid of the damn thing.
I don't mind the Prophet ban now that as a Vorthos I have Kydele. The true Prophet, and one with a strong but more fair effect that aligns with her god too.
I love eminence but Edgar and Inalla pushed the envelope quite a bit. I feel like the Ur-Dragon and Arahbo were about right. Useful and fun but not broken (especially considering how your opponent cannot interact with cards in the command zone).
I disagree with Paradox Engine being banned. It's a really neat card. I love it.
I think Iona should be banned. There's good justification for why it is not, but I don't feel like her being "one of the Mono-chrome drawbacks" is a valid point. The inherent drawbacks of a single color are enough of a hindrance.
I think Gifts Ungiven should be unbanned. Or at least would like it to be.
Consecrated Sphinx is annoying and IMO should be banned. Not that it does all that much, but something about it bothers me.
I think Eminence abilities in Commander defeat the spirit of the format. Enough to ban? Probably not. But IDK.
i disagree on the majority of your points and i think it comes down to the competitiveness of a meta.
con sphinx is obnoxious, iona is obnoxious, more honed metas deal with them quickly. yes, iona can lock a person out, but generally the table will deal with it where one person can't. con sphinx lets people get ahead, but a more honed meta knows to kill that garbage asap.
paradox engine on the other hand.... in a competitive meta the minute it hits the table if there's no immediate answer the game ends on the spot. 99% of the time. there are also a lot of 'OOPS INFINITE' combos that people don't realize until they start actually processing triggers. in a less competitive meta though? well it tends to just kinda sit there and might give a little value but nothing game breaking.
engine is really the only change i'd like to see in the near future
edit: on the eminence front: its really obnoxious on inalla and edgar, but on the others its merely fair. inalla breaks it easily, edgar just becomes problematic. i don't really think the cards are banworthy, but i'd very much like to NEVER see that ability reprinted ever again. its difficult to keep balanced, its either too weak or too strong, and at the same time it gets around commanderness and just turns your duder into an emblem.
You people act like vampires aren't still the worst dedicated tribe by the very fact that they're not in UG. A vampire deck will never even have a chance to beat well-built Elves, Merfolk, Zombies or Goblins without Edgar's eminence. And tribal decks are the lowest tier of competition. The card/deck doesn't do a thing to stax, combo or taking turns strategies.
I disagree with Paradox Engine being banned. It's a really neat card. I love it.
I think Iona should be banned. There's good justification for why it is not, but I don't feel like her being "one of the Mono-chrome drawbacks" is a valid point. The inherent drawbacks of a single color are enough of a hindrance.
I think Gifts Ungiven should be unbanned. Or at least would like it to be.
Consecrated Sphinx is annoying and IMO should be banned. Not that it does all that much, but something about it bothers me.
I think Eminence abilities in Commander defeat the spirit of the format. Enough to ban? Probably not. But IDK.
If you think Consecrated Sphinx is annoying, try playing it and having your opponent make five copies of it via a kicked Rite of Replication. Infinite Card Draw! Got an opponent to deck himself with that. He was down to three cards when he decided to stop drawing cards. Cue a Stroke of Genius later...
Actually, that's exactly why I find it annoying. It's a form of Trade Secrets for people who have it or can clone it. I say get rid of the damn thing.
I don't mind the Prophet ban now that as a Vorthos I have Kydele. The true Prophet, and one with a strong but more fair effect that aligns with her god too.
Yeah, but unlike Trade Secrets, you do not get to chose who copies your Sphinx. Thus it is considerably more balanced for multiplayer.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
You people act like vampires aren't still the worst dedicated tribe by the very fact that they're not in UG. A vampire deck will never even have a chance to beat well-built Elves, Merfolk, Zombies or Goblins without Edgar's eminence. And tribal decks are the lowest tier of competition. The card/deck doesn't do a thing to stax, combo or taking turns strategies.
It's not about competitiveness. It's about Eminence being an effect one cannot interact with. It's an absolute benefit to the one who has it, and impossible to deal with for the opposing player. Ur-Dragon is alright, because his Eminence is a mild benefit to assist the overcosted nature of dragons, and there is a very impressive advantage to casting him. So the player must gauge when to make that commander vulnerable to interaction in order to risk a bigger reward. A reward that, similar to the Eminence ability, is a sort of discount effect in itself. So the card is very complimentary to itself.
Commanders like Edgar or Oloro are not like this. They're almost always better off left in the command zone and never being interacted with. Why waste the mana when the greatest benefit from them is always there and cannot be prevented for the most part?
My issue is a lack of interaction. When I have a hand of counters, draw and bounce spells, etc. And literally no answer for something, it feels awkward considering it's supposed to be a game. Edgar feels like that guy playing backseat magic with someone, like some benefit beyond the game itself.
You people act like vampires aren't still the worst dedicated tribe by the very fact that they're not in UG. A vampire deck will never even have a chance to beat well-built Elves, Merfolk, Zombies or Goblins without Edgar's eminence. And tribal decks are the lowest tier of competition. The card/deck doesn't do a thing to stax, combo or taking turns strategies.
Edgar needs to be cast to win against good decks because Vampire Lacerator and his token buddy aren't cutting it in a multiplayer format with 40lp.
There's THREE good vampires, Yahenni, Undying Partisan, Olivia Voldaren and Captivating Vampire. And there is no Elvish Guidance, Goblin Warrens, Zombie Apocalypse, Merrow Commerce or Dragon Tempest to help them either.
Edgar and Arhabo are balanced by being powerful tribal cards in very weak tribes. If you really can't deal with them the right thing to do is be an adult and either build better decks or ask the Eminence players to adapt their decks to the playgroup's level. Not prohibit everyone else from playing a deck that is neither overpowered in cEDH nor problematic in casual commander just because you don't like that there's some things you can't say "no" to and for the first time ever some of those things are not in blue.
You people act like vampires aren't still the worst dedicated tribe by the very fact that they're not in UG. A vampire deck will never even have a chance to beat well-built Elves, Merfolk, Zombies or Goblins without Edgar's eminence. And tribal decks are the lowest tier of competition. The card/deck doesn't do a thing to stax, combo or taking turns strategies.
You people act like vampires aren't still the worst dedicated tribe by the very fact that they're not in UG. A vampire deck will never even have a chance to beat well-built Elves, Merfolk, Zombies or Goblins without Edgar's eminence. And tribal decks are the lowest tier of competition. The card/deck doesn't do a thing to stax, combo or taking turns strategies.
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18830
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Such as, if you're willing to share?
I think Iona should be banned. There's good justification for why it is not, but I don't feel like her being "one of the Mono-chrome drawbacks" is a valid point. The inherent drawbacks of a single color are enough of a hindrance.
I think Gifts Ungiven should be unbanned. Or at least would like it to be.
Consecrated Sphinx is annoying and IMO should be banned. Not that it does all that much, but something about it bothers me.
I think Eminence abilities in Commander defeat the spirit of the format. Enough to ban? Probably not. But IDK.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Paradox Engine is, by and large, my favourite artifact and I always try to find an excuse to use it in every artifact EDH deck I cobble together. That said, it is a pretty busted card which should never be allowed to resolve, and that makes it understandable to ban IMO.
For Eminence, I think it's fine as long as the Eminence abilities are relatively tame and passive like Ur-Dragon. Inalla and Edgar Markov really push the envelope though. Being able to combo off with a combo piece your opponents can't interact with, or spawn a bunch of 1/1s with a token generator you don't pay anything for and your opponents can't interact with is poor design IMO.
Iona and Sphinx are stupid, but I don't see either of them getting axed anytime soon, and I have no strong opinions on Gifts Ungiven.
Emminence should go. Getting advantages without ever casting your commander seems wrong.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
Agreed. I'm not a combo player generally, so I just like to use it to basically do more stuff on my turn.
Agreed again. Being able to shut a player out of the game entirely with a single card is oppressive. What are the mono-color player's options, just Duplicant or Scour from Existence?
I agree that it's not bannable necessarily, but I really hate that mechanic. Having such huge upsides for no effort or investment is really lame. Mechanics related to the command zone are fine in theory, like the C13 commanders, but eminence rubs me the wrong way. I want to build a Mardu vampire deck, but I won't use Edgar Markov out of principal.
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The funny thing is that Inalla is the only Eminence commander that would be hit pretty hard, since most of the combos she's now infamous for rely on not needing to cast her.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I mean, you could still use him in the 99, if you're so inclined.
If you think Consecrated Sphinx is annoying, try playing it and having your opponent make five copies of it via a kicked Rite of Replication. Infinite Card Draw! Got an opponent to deck himself with that. He was down to three cards when he decided to stop drawing cards. Cue a Stroke of Genius later...
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
My 720 Peasant Cube
The real issue with that card is if multiple people have it it's like sitting through even more turns to get to yours. Even in three players games when two have it the other person sits there and wonders as the other two players having another two turns each to themselves to play things.
It's just annoying, really.
I don't mind the Prophet ban now that as a Vorthos I have Kydele. The true Prophet, and one with a strong but more fair effect that aligns with her god too.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
i disagree on the majority of your points and i think it comes down to the competitiveness of a meta.
con sphinx is obnoxious, iona is obnoxious, more honed metas deal with them quickly. yes, iona can lock a person out, but generally the table will deal with it where one person can't. con sphinx lets people get ahead, but a more honed meta knows to kill that garbage asap.
paradox engine on the other hand.... in a competitive meta the minute it hits the table if there's no immediate answer the game ends on the spot. 99% of the time. there are also a lot of 'OOPS INFINITE' combos that people don't realize until they start actually processing triggers. in a less competitive meta though? well it tends to just kinda sit there and might give a little value but nothing game breaking.
engine is really the only change i'd like to see in the near future
edit: on the eminence front: its really obnoxious on inalla and edgar, but on the others its merely fair. inalla breaks it easily, edgar just becomes problematic. i don't really think the cards are banworthy, but i'd very much like to NEVER see that ability reprinted ever again. its difficult to keep balanced, its either too weak or too strong, and at the same time it gets around commanderness and just turns your duder into an emblem.
Yeah, but unlike Trade Secrets, you do not get to chose who copies your Sphinx. Thus it is considerably more balanced for multiplayer.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Commanders like Edgar or Oloro are not like this. They're almost always better off left in the command zone and never being interacted with. Why waste the mana when the greatest benefit from them is always there and cannot be prevented for the most part?
My issue is a lack of interaction. When I have a hand of counters, draw and bounce spells, etc. And literally no answer for something, it feels awkward considering it's supposed to be a game. Edgar feels like that guy playing backseat magic with someone, like some benefit beyond the game itself.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I would like to encourage you to watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYvsM5HrCSc&t.
I would agree that vampires are ONE of the worst tribes (ever heard of werewolves and angels?) but Edgar Markov makes vampires broken.
Art student, EDH lover and a strong believer that Delver has the best design in all of MTG.
There's THREE good vampires, Yahenni, Undying Partisan, Olivia Voldaren and Captivating Vampire. And there is no Elvish Guidance, Goblin Warrens, Zombie Apocalypse, Merrow Commerce or Dragon Tempest to help them either.
Edgar and Arhabo are balanced by being powerful tribal cards in very weak tribes. If you really can't deal with them the right thing to do is be an adult and either build better decks or ask the Eminence players to adapt their decks to the playgroup's level. Not prohibit everyone else from playing a deck that is neither overpowered in cEDH nor problematic in casual commander just because you don't like that there's some things you can't say "no" to and for the first time ever some of those things are not in blue.
From my experiences Edgar Markov makes vampires average. Hell, it's not even the best Commander deck to come out of that year.