It felt like they had already moved printing operations with Rivals. The colour was more rich and vibrant. That said it doesn't mean much for the coating but it did feel like something changed when Rivals was printed. I just hope foils don't default to curving like those of old.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
So according to this image it appears that Wizards of the Coast publicly lied about fixing the card stock quality in Dominaria:
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I don't think that single images should ever be used to try to prove or disprove anything, not even talking about serious accusations. Even if it were eligible I can't find the words "We promise that the cards will not bend anymore." in the document. Maybe the coating just doesn't have the effect we wish it had.
I don't think that single images should ever be used to try to prove or disprove anything, not even talking about serious accusations. Even if it were eligible I can't find the words "We promise that the cards will not bend anymore." in the document. Maybe the coating just doesn't have the effect we wish it had.
True but it was the only lead I had unfortunately. Perhaps the real issue here isn't the actual card stock but the card coating itself as you just pointed out.
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I don't think that single images should ever be used to try to prove or disprove anything, not even talking about serious accusations. Even if it were eligible I can't find the words "We promise that the cards will not bend anymore." in the document. Maybe the coating just doesn't have the effect we wish it had.
True but it was the only lead I had unfortunately. Perhaps the real issue here isn't the actual card stock but the card coating itself as you just pointed out.
There are more reports, but we have to wait until the pre release to really know for sure. If this didn't fix it they may legitimately not know how to fix the problem without making the cards too different to be mixed with the older already printed cards.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If this didn't fix it they may legitimately not know how to fix the problem without making the cards too different to be mixed with the older already printed cards.
Huh? Just go back to the older style printing methods/materials and printers. Problem solved.
My guess is that they are trying to mask the card stock issue with a bandaid solution of a different coating, hoping it solves the problem on the cheap. We will see if it does or not.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
If this didn't fix it they may legitimately not know how to fix the problem without making the cards too different to be mixed with the older already printed cards.
Huh? Just go back to the older style printing methods/materials and printers. Problem solved.
My guess is that they are trying to mask the card stock issue with a bandaid solution of a different coating, hoping it solves the problem on the cheap. We will see if it does or not.
That's assuming the paper manufacturer isn't to blame for the issue.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I feel like all the old border foils I have are drastically better than any of the modern border foils. They don't curl, the colors are brighter and crisper, and they're stiffer. What happened with the switch to modern? I imagine the new style is cheaper to produce, but the drop in quality from what we used to be offered 15 years ago is DRASTIC. I just hate how DARK the art in modern foils become. Like I'd really like some of the recent Commander-only legends reprinted in non-foil forms just to have brighter art.
Yeah I am going to have to agree with CatParty on this. Older foils were hard as rock and quite thick, with nice shine on them. I barely even touch foil commons or uncommons anymore out of Masters sets, the quality is just too meh. Judge foils are still quite nice though, but yeah, bring back super thickness.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Yeah I am going to have to agree with CatParty on this. Older foils were hard as rock and quite thick, with nice shine on them. I barely even touch foil commons or uncommons anymore out of Masters sets, the quality is just too meh. Judge foils are still quite nice though, but yeah, bring back super thickness.
I'm speculating here, but I think what happened is that when they moved to the print on demand model for sets they cut back on the paper quality because of having to have a fairly significant stock of paper available. Originally they had runs where X number of a given card would be printed and the run would be over, so the cost of materials was easier to work with. I definitely see changes going from RTR towards BFZ in regards to the card thickness and honestly, the excuse that the cards expand with time only holds so much water.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I feel like all the old border foils I have are drastically better than any of the modern border foils. They don't curl, the colors are brighter and crisper, and they're stiffer. What happened with the switch to modern? I imagine the new style is cheaper to produce, but the drop in quality from what we used to be offered 15 years ago is DRASTIC. I just hate how DARK the art in modern foils become. Like I'd really like some of the recent Commander-only legends reprinted in non-foil forms just to have brighter art.
Huh? I have some older foils that are definitely curled. So much so that they actually curled my non-foils with them in the same box.
I had to move them to their own box with a desiccant packet to try and suck the moisture out before stuffing them in books.
I think these were some of the earliest foils. I'm not sure.
After my son and I have opened our Pre-release packs, the first thing you notice is the new coating. It isn't glossier at all. In fact it has a more matte finish than recent cards and makes it harder to slide the cards apart from each other when rifling through a pack opening. On top of that if unsleeved I can tell by the finish (in the right angle of light) which cards are from our Dominaria pre-release packs and the older (but brand new and unused) lands we built our constructed decks with. I could deal out a hand and call how many lands and how many Dominaria cards were drawn. Maybe its just the batch of pre-release packs we had but I would not want to play with these in any competitive environment that were not sleeved as it would be too easy to discern which cards by their new coating/finish. Again, maybe its just the 2 pre-release packs we got, but in the right light it was easy to tell. A discerning touch should be able to tell by texture as well. My advice would be to play these sleeved up if playing for prizes or money.
PS: After checking out some information, apparently the Japanese produced cards do indeed have this more matte finish. And after re-reading the announcement by WotC and their "discerning fingers" comment, it should be fairly easy for most players to tell the difference between this new coating and the old coating. Again, I'd recommend if you are playing for prizes or money, these cards need to be sleeved from this point on.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Japanese card quality is superior. I have a Japanese Thassa that has this glossy, sturdy coating which makes the artwork look vibrant. The coloring on the card is beautiful. My English Thassa is dull, flimsy, and cheap. I've always been disappointed with how English cards have this thin, dry, cheap feel and lack that sturdy gloss that Japanese cards and some supplemental products have. I have noticed though that this quality for English cards has been improved.
I've bought plenty of foreign booster packs over the years, and the Japanese ones are definitely my favorite as far as the quality of the look and feel. The EU printed ones are a close second, but both very much put the US-printed ones to shame.
I'm very hopeful that this brings the US cards up to snuff!
I assume it has something to do with different product liability laws in different countries/trade zones. But that would get me on a tear about how NAFTA isn't even a pale imitation of the EU.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
If I were to guess as to why they have done this and had to put my money on a reason. It wouldn't be because they care about the card quality the consumers of US/English have been wanting. It would be because they have probably found a way that this has become more economically advantageous (i.e. cheaper) to print and produce and are just going to couch that fact in the "quality" aspect.
Coatings are not card stock. Coatings very well may (or may not) affect if a card curls over time or with contact with moisture or high humidity. Guess we will have to see on this one or compare it to the Japanese printed cards. What I'd like to see is a detailed comparison of card thickness from recent and past sets. Someone needs to open packs from different times and sets, then take a precise electronic caliper and measure the thickness of the pack (opened and from the center of the cards) and compare those and see if card stock or thickness has changed over the years. My guess is that it has and it is thinner now but it would be nice to see real numbers. Also it would be nice to see the same cards opened and then submitted to a high humidity environment for a day or two to see if curling is more prevalent with recent cards, past cards or neither. A real scientific test or comparison, not more of this anecdotal jibber-jabber.
With all that said. I like the look of the new more matte finish cards. I don't like the feel of them or how they catch and don't slide as easily over other cards. Call me picky. I like the feel of a more glossy, smooth finish. Just personal preference.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Riku of Two Reflections - Copy, then copy again | Shattergang Brothers - Token Sac&Recur | Gahiji, Honored One - Multiple attack steps | Karametra, God of Harvests - Landfall, Creaturefall, Shroud | Ruhan of the Fomori - Stop hitting yourself | Zurgo Helmsmasher - Equipment&Wraths | Crosis, the Purger - Dragon Tribal Reanimator | Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - No stax, just tap and untap fun | Anafenza, the Foremost - Enduring Ideal Enchantress | Sharuum, the Hegemon - Sphinx Tribal Control | Noyan Dar - Spellslinger | The Mimeoplasm - Counterpalooza
Lists can be found here.
Still convinced the guy on Beseech the Queen is wearing a Mitra-type hat. Wake up sheeple!
I will have to see tomorrow at the prerelease, but I expected glossy, not matte.
Maybe it was our 2 pre-release packs but the card coating is slightly more matte than before. You can see it and you can feel it. Again the cards don't slide past each other as easily when you open the pack and try to slide them apart one by one when looking at the cards. They are less glossy than before. They aren't full matte finish but they are gradients away. This is assuming you are opening English/United States versions, not European.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
When I managed to get a good feel of the new card quality from Dominaria it reminded me of how they printed cards in Theros block since it had that similar texture to them. The new coating felt as though the card had some gloss to them without being counterfeit which was rather strange to me. I recently managed to pick up one of the Dominaria Pre-Release foils for a friend of mine and not once did I see it curl or bend.
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
In the USA: I can definitely feel difference in the coating, but the cards still feel thin and flimsy to me. I really hope they go back to a sturdier stock.
In the USA: I can definitely feel difference in the coating, but the cards still feel thin and flimsy to me. I really hope they go back to a sturdier stock.
The sturdier stock from Belgium I'm assuming?
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Got my hands on some DOM cards from a prerelease kit and compared them to RIX and IXL cards, all produced in Belgium. The new cards are slightly more matte and the colors look a bit more saturated, and the stock seems very slightly thicker. No huge difference in either aspect. Looks to me like a minor improvement on the already good Belgian quality.
I got a DOM foil that was almost completely flat out of the pack, and all the RIX/IXL foils in my bulk box are significantly warped, more so than foils from a few years back. I'll leave the DOM foil lying out unsleeved for two days and report back. I think it looks promising.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
There are more reports, but we have to wait until the pre release to really know for sure. If this didn't fix it they may legitimately not know how to fix the problem without making the cards too different to be mixed with the older already printed cards.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Huh? Just go back to the older style printing methods/materials and printers. Problem solved.
My guess is that they are trying to mask the card stock issue with a bandaid solution of a different coating, hoping it solves the problem on the cheap. We will see if it does or not.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
That's assuming the paper manufacturer isn't to blame for the issue.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
You have to bling bling , otherwise there is no point to foils.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
I'm speculating here, but I think what happened is that when they moved to the print on demand model for sets they cut back on the paper quality because of having to have a fairly significant stock of paper available. Originally they had runs where X number of a given card would be printed and the run would be over, so the cost of materials was easier to work with. I definitely see changes going from RTR towards BFZ in regards to the card thickness and honestly, the excuse that the cards expand with time only holds so much water.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Huh? I have some older foils that are definitely curled. So much so that they actually curled my non-foils with them in the same box.
I had to move them to their own box with a desiccant packet to try and suck the moisture out before stuffing them in books.
I think these were some of the earliest foils. I'm not sure.
PS: After checking out some information, apparently the Japanese produced cards do indeed have this more matte finish. And after re-reading the announcement by WotC and their "discerning fingers" comment, it should be fairly easy for most players to tell the difference between this new coating and the old coating. Again, I'd recommend if you are playing for prizes or money, these cards need to be sleeved from this point on.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I assume it has something to do with different product liability laws in different countries/trade zones. But that would get me on a tear about how NAFTA isn't even a pale imitation of the EU.
On phasing:
Coatings are not card stock. Coatings very well may (or may not) affect if a card curls over time or with contact with moisture or high humidity. Guess we will have to see on this one or compare it to the Japanese printed cards. What I'd like to see is a detailed comparison of card thickness from recent and past sets. Someone needs to open packs from different times and sets, then take a precise electronic caliper and measure the thickness of the pack (opened and from the center of the cards) and compare those and see if card stock or thickness has changed over the years. My guess is that it has and it is thinner now but it would be nice to see real numbers. Also it would be nice to see the same cards opened and then submitted to a high humidity environment for a day or two to see if curling is more prevalent with recent cards, past cards or neither. A real scientific test or comparison, not more of this anecdotal jibber-jabber.
With all that said. I like the look of the new more matte finish cards. I don't like the feel of them or how they catch and don't slide as easily over other cards. Call me picky. I like the feel of a more glossy, smooth finish. Just personal preference.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Tamanoa - Welcome to the Jungle
Lists can be found here.
Maybe it was our 2 pre-release packs but the card coating is slightly more matte than before. You can see it and you can feel it. Again the cards don't slide past each other as easily when you open the pack and try to slide them apart one by one when looking at the cards. They are less glossy than before. They aren't full matte finish but they are gradients away. This is assuming you are opening English/United States versions, not European.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I got a DOM foil that was almost completely flat out of the pack, and all the RIX/IXL foils in my bulk box are significantly warped, more so than foils from a few years back. I'll leave the DOM foil lying out unsleeved for two days and report back. I think it looks promising.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'