I like the idea, but I have some serious questions like the dynamics of the game, in commander we are not used to change decks, not to see decks rotate, and certainly not to see color combinations disappear. I would like to know how they will handle colorless commanders and their mana bases, and how are they going to promote events, as there are different kind of rules generally in commander leagues depending on the store.
yeah true, but the idea is that you see a cool legend that you like and you build around it. what are you talking about is doing the inverse process: building a deck in certain colours and then find a legend that fits.
In your specific example with Beckett Brass, you can't just replace her with another random grixis legend anyway, because she only works with pirates. Having a pirate deck with say Bolas as commander just cos he fits the colours wouldn't have much sense.
MANY people choose commanders in commander without ever planning to actually cast their commander. They pick one because it supports the colors they want to run.
i honestly NEVER encountered such type of commander player. Let's make it clear, I'm not having a go at you or saying that what you're saying is wrong. I'm just basing my assumption on my previous experience, and that is of people who build their commander deck so that they can make the most of their general.
I have faced many decks that had no intention of casting the commander.
There was a planeswalker deck helmed by Progenitus, where Progenitus was only cast when the player was flooded. Karador, Ghost Chieftain usually synergizes well with the decks, but they usually combo off without the commander ever being played.
There are decks playing Partners exclusively for the colours. I have a deck built around Reyhan, last of the abzan. I am using the WU partner with him for the colors (there is a bit of synergy, but I cast the commander as a last resort since it is pretty weak). If there was a jeskai partner printed in the future, I would use it without a second thought, because 5-colour Reyhan would be awesome!
When Tiny Leaders came around, there was no sultai commander that was less than 3 mana, so people were allowed to play a UBG 2/2 vanilla commander. And a lot of people did.
I build my decks around my commanders, but my decks also suffer when I can't keep my commander in play. Having a deck that doesn't need the commander can be a good strategy!
I think that part of the allure of a "casual" format is that your decks do not rotate. Without sanctioned events driving this I don't see it going anywhere.
I think it could be fun, as a non-competitive commander variant similar to budget EDH or Standard EDH (which was already a thing). I don't see myself trying to fine-tune a deck, but it could be fun to pilfer my standard collection for a semi-functional deck.
Rotation is funny because I think it's actually a very positive thing for gameplay. It keeps things fresh. It gets rid of busted cards everyone is sick of seeing. It gives otherwise weak strategies a chance in the sun. It lowers barrier to entry, both monetarily and knowledge-wise. There are so many advantages, and the only downside is that the deck you're sick of anyway won't be legal anymore after a good long lifespan of a year or two. The way magic works, you probably won't even lose much along the way, because most of your best synergy pieces are in the same set as your commander.
But on the other hand, I think it's human nature to hate the idea. People just don't like that their cards are going to lose value - even if the cost of a deck is only going to be like $100 and you could potentially spend hundreds of hours playing it. Within 2 years you could have a whole new job and spending a few hundred might be meaningless to you. Not to mention, as a casual format, most people will probably be chill playing against an ex-legal brawl deck.
But, human nature man. You can have my sol ring when you pry it from my cold dead fingers etc. Never mind that those old cards are cancer for the health of the game. Sigh.
I have seen it before, at my LGS, something about wizards trying it out before the announcement.
The problem is that standard cards are just so variant in power-level. You just be dumb and play the deck that allows you to play the best cards in standard and if you pick the wrong colour combo you will very quickly you are playing only terrible cards. Due to the limitations of the format you'll just have everyone playing the same (stupid midrange) cards.
If I am playing say the locust god.. my opponent plays the scarab god well I lose and there is nothing I can do to remove the scarab god from relevance in game. there are no cards in UR to deal with the scarab god. or Hazoret either or any of the other gods.
I have been doing some research and there is a wider variety of strategies than what you might expect. There are major themes of course, like cycling, tribal, artifacts,etc. But you would be surprised to see how many good cards for example boros can have. I looked stuff for huatli and I even found a combo, just to give an example. There is potential.
This is all it boils down to. They never fully took over the commander banlist because it doesn't generate them much money. They printed decks but the way most of them sit on shelves forever shows they don't wanna keep doing that. I for one will not be buying into rotation commander.
Where do you get the idea that Commander precons don't make money? They sell like hotcakes and are hard to find in stock around here.
[quote from="doc.brown »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/790875-brawl-the-format?comment=121"]Ahh, but there's IS a problem.
Colorless, and all 5 mono-colors are represented, all the guilds are represented - which is great.
There's only TWO 3 color pairings in those 73 legendaries. 3 Grixis commanders, and 3 Naya commanders.
So if you really prefer playing a different combination, you're out of luck. And you'll be at the whim of the rotation if your preferred combination ever rotates out - which means you'll have to build a completely different deck.
I like the idea in theory, but only if they are supporting it so that at LEAST all the 3-color options (shards and wedges) remain playable *somehow*.
There's a big differences between - "Beckett Brass is rotating, so I'll need to tweak my Grixis deck for the new commander that's coming out." and "Whelp, I can't play this entire Grixis deck anymore, because now I don't have a commander to run it."
Also, a lot of the things that would/could help alleviate this problem, aren't being addressed by default due to the standard legal nature of the format. Partner can't be printed in a standard legal set. So does that mean that all of the commander-only features can't be explored? Or will there be standard-legal printed supplementary products? Will there be pre-cons to get people started? How badly will rotating mana-fixing cause an issue for the ability to construct decent and diverse decks?
This could ALL be fine, but I think they haven't let us know about these worries.
I don't recon it's an actual problem as long as we remember is a rotating format. Not every standard has a bant deck or an esper deck for example...it's the nature of the format
Standard is not a format where color identity matters. You can build whatever color combo you want. Brawl inherits the color-identity-matters part of Commander, and as such, this is a problem. Look at tiny leaders - never had a UBG commander to play, and it sucked for people who like that color combo. Then they finally got one after the format was dead, and it got banned in commander for being game warping.
</blockquote>
you are looking at this from the wrong point of view.
It's not a different way to play commander. It'a a different way to play standard.
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
There are so many ways this could be better.
-Standard card pool but 20lp
-All cards printed with the M15 border legal
-Standard card pool but not singleton, instead using Duels card quantity limits by rarirty
As it is I don't think I'll play it. It's not a new competitive setting ripe for brewing and it's not a new casual setting that offers anything different from Standard or Commander, letting us use walkers as commanders is not enough to entice me. I doubt anyone at my LGS will care and there's no sign it'll be supported online so I don't think I'll even be able to play this ever.
I personally used to play 60/4/1 Commander with Standard-sized card pool and 60/1/1 Commander with a larger card pool based on the old extended card pool. Any "eternal" card pool based on a new card face is just something people will want to replace again at some point - basically creating rotation again just on a more arbitrary frequency.
Also I think they would want to start a format like that one core set later.
That said, I can see the appeal of the rarity-based card number restrictions - though it's always iffy with reprints.
If I am playing say the locust god.. my opponent plays the scarab god well I lose and there is nothing I can do to remove the scarab god from relevance in game. there are no cards in UR to deal with the scarab god. or Hazoret either or any of the other gods.
Cash grab? You mean WotC made a decision to try to increase profits by creating a format to give more incentive for people to buy Standard legal sealed products? And they want to create a format that can support format-specific sealed products like they’ve done with their Challenger and Commander products to make even more money? How dare this for-profit business create a product to increase sales instead of figuring out a way to immediately start making Standard fun again despite the huge amount of time it takes to design and release a new set.
I can’t wait until they release another article so I can find something new to complain about.
Here's the thing. Prior to this year sometime, they had a good variety of articles on the mothership. On Thursdays you had Commander stuff, on Fridays you had Latest Developments, on Mondays Maro, on Tuesdays and Wednesday probably stuff on Standard and so on. The best part? Yes, readers knew that Wizards is a business but these articles weren't pushing stuff aggressively down our throats. I was hoping for previews or thoughts on Dominaria cards today and what do I get? A Brawl article on...Huatli? WHo isn't even in Dominaria?
What a mess. Brawl articles should be something I read about on Select on Starcity Games as a throw-in read, but right now it's a push for this stuff instead of telling me what the other Sagas are, who the other legendaries are or just talking about Dominaria set design. We were told by Aaron that Dominaria talk would start on Wednesday of this week. So far we have had...two pages of fairly good story (with no previews), the red Saga, the Boros buy-a-box twice and...?
Nothing to replace Latest Developments. Mel's column was quite nice but there's a content gap here, a gap that was filled like clockwork every Friday for a long, long time. When is that going to happen?
Mothership really needs to narrow its focus. One day Maro, one day Twitch/Standard/etc, one day development talk, one day casual/commander talk, one day archive the best articles...I used to go to the Mothership once a day at the very least. Now I go perhaps once a week, and that's a high estimate. What will bring me back? A steady regimen of columns and a good sprinkling of Dominaria previews. I sincerely hope they revert to s steady column cycle in the near future, because at the moment Mothership is being passed by other sites, ironically tied to stores, that aren't "in-your-face" with selling the new product.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Cash grab? You mean WotC made a decision to try to increase profits by creating a format to give more incentive for people to buy Standard legal sealed products? And they want to create a format that can support format-specific sealed products like they’ve done with their Challenger and Commander products to make even more money? How dare this for-profit business create a product to increase sales instead of figuring out a way to immediately start making Standard fun again despite the huge amount of time it takes to design and release a new set.
I can’t wait until they release another article so I can find something new to complain about.
Here's the thing. Prior to this year sometime, they had a good variety of articles on the mothership. On Thursdays you had Commander stuff, on Fridays you had Latest Developments, on Mondays Maro, on Tuesdays and Wednesday probably stuff on Standard and so on. The best part? Yes, readers knew that Wizards is a business but these articles weren't pushing stuff aggressively down our throats. I was hoping for previews or thoughts on Dominaria cards today and what do I get? A Brawl article on...Huatli? WHo isn't even in Dominaria?
What a mess. Brawl articles should be something I read about on Select on Starcity Games as a throw-in read, but right now it's a push for this stuff instead of telling me what the other Sagas are, who the other legendaries are or just talking about Dominaria set design. We were told by Aaron that Dominaria talk would start on Wednesday of this week. So far we have had...two pages of fairly good story (with no previews), the red Saga, the Boros buy-a-box twice and...?
Nothing to replace Latest Developments. Mel's column was quite nice but there's a content gap here, a gap that was filled like clockwork every Friday for a long, long time. When is that going to happen?
Mothership really needs to narrow its focus. One day Maro, one day Twitch/Standard/etc, one day development talk, one day casual/commander talk, one day archive the best articles...I used to go to the Mothership once a day at the very least. Now I go perhaps once a week, and that's a high estimate. What will bring me back? A steady regimen of columns and a good sprinkling of Dominaria previews. I sincerely hope they revert to s steady column cycle in the near future, because at the moment Mothership is being passed by other sites, ironically tied to stores, that aren't "in-your-face" with selling the new product.
Preview season was not supposed to begin for a while. They have to space their previews out over 5 weeks. The leak likely threw all their carefully laid plans up into the air, which is why things feel chaotic.
Also, we got a story today as well, so it is not like there is no content being posted.
While Standard has zero cards that use Hybrid mana, there *is* no issue with Hybrid Mana in Brawl.
Yeah, but personally I feel that rulechanges should be kept to a minimum, so it would have been better if they just did it from the start.
Ironically, "rulechanges should be kept to a minimum" is probably exactly why they did not change the rule about Hybrid. In a standard format where it doesn't even matter, adding the "hybrids can be taken" rule would add another rule divergence from base commander, making it harder to explain Brawl in relation to commander.
yeah true, but the idea is that you see a cool legend that you like and you build around it. what are you talking about is doing the inverse process: building a deck in certain colours and then find a legend that fits.
In your specific example with Beckett Brass, you can't just replace her with another random grixis legend anyway, because she only works with pirates. Having a pirate deck with say Bolas as commander just cos he fits the colours wouldn't have much sense.
MANY people choose commanders in commander without ever planning to actually cast their commander. They pick one because it supports the colors they want to run.
i honestly NEVER encountered such type of commander player. Let's make it clear, I'm not having a go at you or saying that what you're saying is wrong. I'm just basing my assumption on my previous experience, and that is of people who build their commander deck so that they can make the most of their general.
A plurality of Oloro decks, Inalla decks, and 5-color decks are not built with any intention of casting their commander. I know someone who's got an Oloro deck that can only generate black mana (relentless rats.dek). Arahbo and Edgar Markov decks, too, although fewer of them, as their in-play triggers are very tempting to people.
My own 4-color nonwhite deck was designed when we knew we were getting 4C commanders, but we had no idea what they were. It's Silas/Tana now, and I rarely cast either of them; the deck was designed irrespective of the commander. I only end up casting Tana when I've got infinite mana anyway (I occasionally cast Silas on finite mana, since the deck is artifact-heavy, but I have no way to give him evasion, so it's not often he's able to get through).
So wait they created a new 'commander format' with slightly changed rules, but didn't bother to address the issue with hybrid mana?
Probably because it's NOT an issue. It works fine. It could also be fine if they changed it, but it doesn't matter. Whether or not you allow hybrids is an arbitrary distinction. They opted with the simpler rule that keeps in line with the existing commander rules.
I mean, nothing new really. I did predict huatli as a strong commander, though.
Not that the article has much actual content, but I do hate the sort of player that would intentionally kingmake someone else by using their removal spell to protect another person or their assets (unless they thought they needed to team up against the other player, or as a political ploy, or whatever - none of which sounded true from the article). Highlighting that as a great part of the format leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not that it's any different from regular commander in regards to people doing stupid stuff in the name of being "casual".
I can amortize my commander deck over 5 to 10 years, same as my vintage or legacy deck, I can't do that to a standard deck just a mear 2 years (or 18 months or whatever they have for the new rotation) Once you realize you can play and learn the in and out of your deck over that time period it makes more sense to get the one time higher cost. You get a higher degree of master and better play experience when people are forced to "invest" in their cards. I am not going to spend $1000 on my deck and NOT now how to play it the best I possibly can against each match up. As for your "its not fun" comment, that depends on what crowd you are in, people I play with would disagree with you and I am guessing the people you play with would disagee with me. I would argue that the market agrees with my point of view however, If we assume that most people play magic because they enjoy playing magic, That demand is one of the major indicators of value (for anything not reserve list or very early printing) its simple the cards I would list as "good cards" more often then not will hold value, which means they are played, which means they are fun. People would not play "unfun" cards in a game they play for fun. (granted their may be a small % who only play for prizes or money but I would guess they are the minority)
As someone who has taught new people to play commander. I don't really have a problem with that its just a learning curve and most people who are interested in playing mtg are smart enough to pick it up pretty fast. I disagree, take out say all the reserve list cards and foils from that list and tell me how that value looks. Reserve list is a problem for every format it infects and foils just add value for sake of adding value. I would also bet that is not all in one deck but a collection that incorporates several.
How long HAVE you been playing the same deck exactly? Outside of a few outliers I usually get bored of any given deck within a month or two. 2 years sounds like an eternity.
If you want to master every matchup and know all the specific in and outs, why don't you play a different format where that's the actual goal? Commander is intended to be social, played well but not to the point of memorizing every deck, which shouldn't be possible given the available variety that's core to the format.
Of course more powerful cards are more valuable. People like good cards because they like to WIN. Certainly in competitive formats which drive up most of the prices, but in commander too. If someone played a modern burn deck with bolts, and a standard deck with shocks, and they won more with the standard deck - I bet they'd like shock more. People just like what wins them games. If the power level of the format is lower, they'll like whatever low-powered stuff helped them win.
Of course, it is cool to do cool things, and running grizzly bears into each other all day isn't very cool. So having a greater variety of effects that can occasionally create cool synergies is worth having, and I can sympathize with someone who wants to stick to commander only because they want to be able to doubling-season their planeswalkers or use mana doublers with geth to put their opponents entire library into play or whatever. But bolt vs shock is such a bad example.
I already said I have the cheapest version of every card (or at least close - I've splurged on a few black borders if it's only a few bucks, and I've got some foils of newer cards that I opened as prerelease promos and never replaced with nonfoil, etc). And yes, it's my collection from which I build my decks, not just a single deck (although it is a singleton collection, so only one of each card). But just looking at an optimal 5C manabase, that's going to set you back over 2K easily, probably closer to 3. By comparison I bet I could build a pretty bang-up gishath deck for like 50 bucks.
Can you see why it's a little ridiculous to claim that BRAWL is the expensive format here? You'd have to keep playing the same deck until the heat death of the universe to get better bang for your buck out of commander.
Their is very little way your mana base is $3,000 unless you are using duels and reserve list cards, (which I gave exemption too as Reserve list is frankly a bane on us all). Particularity using the cheapest of each version, Fetches and shocks ring in at what an average of $20 each? at 10 of each thats $400 Even if we double it throwin in other cheapies like city of brass and other multi color lands your not even at $1000 yet let alone 3.
I mean, nothing new really. I did predict huatli as a strong commander, though.
Not that the article has much actual content, but I do hate the sort of player that would intentionally kingmake someone else by using their removal spell to protect another person or their assets (unless they thought they needed to team up against the other player, or as a political ploy, or whatever - none of which sounded true from the article). Highlighting that as a great part of the format leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not that it's any different from regular commander in regards to people doing stupid stuff in the name of being "casual".
I do not see the issue with Kingmaking. Politicking is part of the format.
Eternal cards hold value. The cost of commander is mostly in opportunity cost and sellers fees. It's similar to buying a house. Playing a rotating format is like taking out a high intrest loan to pay for that house. Standard never generates a retun. It's basically just lighting money on fire. I have thousands in magic cards, but I refuse to play standard anymore because it is so expensive. I've never lost a dollar on edh, legacy or modern, but I have lost hundreds on standard.
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Don't look at this as an EDH variant. Look at it as a different version of singleton. I think it's aimed at getting new players more comfortable with formats.
you are looking at this from the wrong point of view.
It's not a different way to play commander. It'a a different way to play standard.
Both of the above quotes tell me to not look at the Venn diagram as a Venn diagram. This is a hybrid format between Standard and Commander. I believe the intent is to pull as many players from each side into the overlap area. If you tell me I'm wrong and not to look at it as and EDH variant, does that mean all the commander players should ignore the new format? That we should pack up our circle on the Venn diagram and leave? Then you've just got Standard.
Like it or not, this is a Commander variant. And when I look at it, I have to ask myself - "Why would I play this over regular Commander? What's the draw?" There is an opportunity cost - time playing can be spent playing one format or the other. So far, I can't see a reason to choose Brawl.
While Standard has zero cards that use Hybrid mana, there *is* no issue with Hybrid Mana in Brawl.
I would argue that with or without hybrid cards in standard, there is no issue. There's an entire thread about that subject, but a deck is restricted to mana symbols found on the commander, and hybrid is always both colors, never only one.
Their is very little way your mana base is $3,000 unless you are using duels and reserve list cards, (which I gave exemption too as Reserve list is frankly a bane on us all). Particularity using the cheapest of each version, Fetches and shocks ring in at what an average of $20 each? at 10 of each thats $400 Even if we double it throwin in other cheapies like city of brass and other multi color lands your not even at $1000 yet let alone 3.
You talk about vintage power, and then you balk at revised duals. What a strange contradition you are.
I also don't know why saying "reserved list cards don't count" is an excuse. If you want to build an optimal commander deck you have to play reserved list cards. They cost a lot, and they're intimidating to new inductees.
If you want a fully optimized commander deck, it's going to set you back multiple thousands of dollars, easily. Significantly more if you're going 5-color, which a lot of the best decks are. If you want a fully-optimized brawl deck, it's almost certainly less than $200, and maybe as low as $100, or even less (my initial kumena build is around $75).
If you aren't optimizing too hard, sure, you can build an OK commander deck for a few hundred bucks. You could build a non-optimal brawl deck for less than $50, and it wouldn't even be that far off optimal either. Kumena could drop a land and jadelight ranger and you're just about there.
For the completionists out there (like me) buying an entire new set, singleton, costs around $110 on ebay right now for ixilan and rivals. That means to have access to literally every card you could ever play in brawl right now would cost something like $700. Which is a fair chunk of change, but compare that to my $20K commander collection...which isn't even complete. And you can see how absurd it is to say that brawl is the more expensive format.
Besides all that - while it's not true for EVERY deck, something like Gishath or Kumena could easily be converted into a 75% commander deck when it rotates just by adding a handful of good nonbasics and some format staples. Or if you were building gishath for commander, just shelve the non-standard stuff and you're probably good to go. Then you've effectively paid nothing to use it for brawl.
If you've already bought into commander then the cost of keeping up with brawl might actually be more than adding occasional cards to your commander decks, but if you're a new player or you're starting a new deck from scratch, the decision really is a no-brainer.
I do not see the issue with Kingmaking. Politicking is part of the format.
Politics can mean doing favors or helping someone else, but always with the intention of improving your own chances to win in the long game. Politicians don't help their opponents win.
Helping someone else with no expectation that it will benefit you undermines the foundation of the game.
I have faced many decks that had no intention of casting the commander.
There was a planeswalker deck helmed by Progenitus, where Progenitus was only cast when the player was flooded.
Karador, Ghost Chieftain usually synergizes well with the decks, but they usually combo off without the commander ever being played.
There are decks playing Partners exclusively for the colours. I have a deck built around Reyhan, last of the abzan. I am using the WU partner with him for the colors (there is a bit of synergy, but I cast the commander as a last resort since it is pretty weak). If there was a jeskai partner printed in the future, I would use it without a second thought, because 5-colour Reyhan would be awesome!
When Tiny Leaders came around, there was no sultai commander that was less than 3 mana, so people were allowed to play a UBG 2/2 vanilla commander. And a lot of people did.
I build my decks around my commanders, but my decks also suffer when I can't keep my commander in play. Having a deck that doesn't need the commander can be a good strategy!
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
But on the other hand, I think it's human nature to hate the idea. People just don't like that their cards are going to lose value - even if the cost of a deck is only going to be like $100 and you could potentially spend hundreds of hours playing it. Within 2 years you could have a whole new job and spending a few hundred might be meaningless to you. Not to mention, as a casual format, most people will probably be chill playing against an ex-legal brawl deck.
But, human nature man. You can have my sol ring when you pry it from my cold dead fingers etc. Never mind that those old cards are cancer for the health of the game. Sigh.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
The problem is that standard cards are just so variant in power-level. You just be dumb and play the deck that allows you to play the best cards in standard and if you pick the wrong colour combo you will very quickly you are playing only terrible cards. Due to the limitations of the format you'll just have everyone playing the same (stupid midrange) cards.
If I am playing say the locust god.. my opponent plays the scarab god well I lose and there is nothing I can do to remove the scarab god from relevance in game. there are no cards in UR to deal with the scarab god. or Hazoret either or any of the other gods.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
you are looking at this from the wrong point of view.
It's not a different way to play commander. It'a a different way to play standard.
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
I personally used to play 60/4/1 Commander with Standard-sized card pool and 60/1/1 Commander with a larger card pool based on the old extended card pool. Any "eternal" card pool based on a new card face is just something people will want to replace again at some point - basically creating rotation again just on a more arbitrary frequency.
Also I think they would want to start a format like that one core set later.
That said, I can see the appeal of the rarity-based card number restrictions - though it's always iffy with reprints.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Puncturing Blow or Magma Spray if Scarab has already taken damage. Hour of Devastation deals with the other gods...well, not Bontu or Oketra but you would need to deal only 1 more point of damage to them first. Once they are in the graveyard you may crook them. Other than that, since you are in blue/red you can Soul-Scar Mage and "burn" them out or keep them tapped down.
Here's the thing. Prior to this year sometime, they had a good variety of articles on the mothership. On Thursdays you had Commander stuff, on Fridays you had Latest Developments, on Mondays Maro, on Tuesdays and Wednesday probably stuff on Standard and so on. The best part? Yes, readers knew that Wizards is a business but these articles weren't pushing stuff aggressively down our throats. I was hoping for previews or thoughts on Dominaria cards today and what do I get? A Brawl article on...Huatli? WHo isn't even in Dominaria?
What a mess. Brawl articles should be something I read about on Select on Starcity Games as a throw-in read, but right now it's a push for this stuff instead of telling me what the other Sagas are, who the other legendaries are or just talking about Dominaria set design. We were told by Aaron that Dominaria talk would start on Wednesday of this week. So far we have had...two pages of fairly good story (with no previews), the red Saga, the Boros buy-a-box twice and...?
Nothing to replace Latest Developments. Mel's column was quite nice but there's a content gap here, a gap that was filled like clockwork every Friday for a long, long time. When is that going to happen?
Mothership really needs to narrow its focus. One day Maro, one day Twitch/Standard/etc, one day development talk, one day casual/commander talk, one day archive the best articles...I used to go to the Mothership once a day at the very least. Now I go perhaps once a week, and that's a high estimate. What will bring me back? A steady regimen of columns and a good sprinkling of Dominaria previews. I sincerely hope they revert to s steady column cycle in the near future, because at the moment Mothership is being passed by other sites, ironically tied to stores, that aren't "in-your-face" with selling the new product.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Yeah, but personally I feel that rulechanges should be kept to a minimum, so it would have been better if they just did it from the start.
Preview season was not supposed to begin for a while. They have to space their previews out over 5 weeks. The leak likely threw all their carefully laid plans up into the air, which is why things feel chaotic.
Also, we got a story today as well, so it is not like there is no content being posted.
My own 4-color nonwhite deck was designed when we knew we were getting 4C commanders, but we had no idea what they were. It's Silas/Tana now, and I rarely cast either of them; the deck was designed irrespective of the commander. I only end up casting Tana when I've got infinite mana anyway (I occasionally cast Silas on finite mana, since the deck is artifact-heavy, but I have no way to give him evasion, so it's not often he's able to get through).
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/ways-play/its-time-brawl-2018-03-23
Not that the article has much actual content, but I do hate the sort of player that would intentionally kingmake someone else by using their removal spell to protect another person or their assets (unless they thought they needed to team up against the other player, or as a political ploy, or whatever - none of which sounded true from the article). Highlighting that as a great part of the format leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not that it's any different from regular commander in regards to people doing stupid stuff in the name of being "casual".
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Their is very little way your mana base is $3,000 unless you are using duels and reserve list cards, (which I gave exemption too as Reserve list is frankly a bane on us all). Particularity using the cheapest of each version, Fetches and shocks ring in at what an average of $20 each? at 10 of each thats $400 Even if we double it throwin in other cheapies like city of brass and other multi color lands your not even at $1000 yet let alone 3.
I do not see the issue with Kingmaking. Politicking is part of the format.
Like it or not, this is a Commander variant. And when I look at it, I have to ask myself - "Why would I play this over regular Commander? What's the draw?" There is an opportunity cost - time playing can be spent playing one format or the other. So far, I can't see a reason to choose Brawl.
I would argue that with or without hybrid cards in standard, there is no issue. There's an entire thread about that subject, but a deck is restricted to mana symbols found on the commander, and hybrid is always both colors, never only one.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
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I also don't know why saying "reserved list cards don't count" is an excuse. If you want to build an optimal commander deck you have to play reserved list cards. They cost a lot, and they're intimidating to new inductees.
If you want a fully optimized commander deck, it's going to set you back multiple thousands of dollars, easily. Significantly more if you're going 5-color, which a lot of the best decks are. If you want a fully-optimized brawl deck, it's almost certainly less than $200, and maybe as low as $100, or even less (my initial kumena build is around $75).
If you aren't optimizing too hard, sure, you can build an OK commander deck for a few hundred bucks. You could build a non-optimal brawl deck for less than $50, and it wouldn't even be that far off optimal either. Kumena could drop a land and jadelight ranger and you're just about there.
For the completionists out there (like me) buying an entire new set, singleton, costs around $110 on ebay right now for ixilan and rivals. That means to have access to literally every card you could ever play in brawl right now would cost something like $700. Which is a fair chunk of change, but compare that to my $20K commander collection...which isn't even complete. And you can see how absurd it is to say that brawl is the more expensive format.
Besides all that - while it's not true for EVERY deck, something like Gishath or Kumena could easily be converted into a 75% commander deck when it rotates just by adding a handful of good nonbasics and some format staples. Or if you were building gishath for commander, just shelve the non-standard stuff and you're probably good to go. Then you've effectively paid nothing to use it for brawl.
If you've already bought into commander then the cost of keeping up with brawl might actually be more than adding occasional cards to your commander decks, but if you're a new player or you're starting a new deck from scratch, the decision really is a no-brainer.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Helping someone else with no expectation that it will benefit you undermines the foundation of the game.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6