I'm kinda sceptical. If they manage to find the sweet spot between supply and demand for these and manage to sell a few more boxes, then that's just upside as far as I'm concerned. But I am a bit worried about "cards not in standard print but in standard legality".
Apparently, according to this twitter thread, Pros experimented with breaking Soul of the Harvest (legal in standard because it was in the 2016 welcome deck), and Flame Lash(from Chandras PW deck) were played at a Pro Tour. These were cards that were explicitly meant not to be standard viable, yet got there/close. They could make this mistake again.
They know they screwed up Standard, which is why they added a third design team and completely overhauled how they create sets. Way more focus is being placed on how the game plays in Standard and Limited.
This is like my boss coming in one day and saying "don't worry, now we have a fire exit!". That's great and all, but it doesn't exactly put me at ease. Why didn't they have a fire exit in the first place, and what else might they be missing? Am I secretly working in a deathtrap? The point is, we shouldn't really be giving WotC a pass because they've started doing something they should have already been doing. Their biggest sellers are clearly Limited and Standard, but they just now created a department to check to make sure one of those doesn't go belly up?
Tree of Redemption was a last minute change, apparently. As a guy who pulled Channel in Iconic Masters, I would have loved to have pulled Tree instead. At least I can use it in every format it can be played in.
The Tree was merely the most noticeable exemplar of the problems that have been plaguing the Masters sets for years at this point; they are trying to achieve two fundamentally opposed goals and it is dramatically weighing them down. WotC cannot justify reprinting Colossal Dreadmaw in a $10/pack set after it has been printed in the two most recent Standard. Either the sets are designed for Limited (in which case the current MSRP is absurd) or they are primarily reprint vehicles (in which case, see again Tree of Redemption or any other draft chaff). Masters sets cannot serve both interest and they're failing for it. The vast majority of the feedback I've seen has been getting progressively more negative as people get fed up with paying $10 for Triskaidekaphobia.
As an aside, at least Channel is, in fact, iconic. It's called Channel-Fireball for a reason. Until A25 came out, if someone had asked me to name cards from Innistrad I probably would have gotten dozens deep before I thought of that stupid Tree. It's a mediocre Limited card, it's a bad value card, and instead of bringing me nostalgia it has actively tainted my previously fond memories of triple INN. It was a failure on every possible level.
WotC has been talking about unbanning Jace for a while now. They even told us they would reprint Jace soon after they unabnned him because he would be incredibly scarce. He would need a reprint to ensure his price did not get ridiculous.
Yes yes... the "they've been talking about it" defense. Weird how they only actually unbanned it when there was another Masters set to push out into a grossly over-saturated market. They could have preemptively put Daddy Jace in Eternal Masters, or a Commander deck, or a Conspiracy-style set. But they didn't. Instead they waited until he could generate maximum hype for their third(!!!) Masters release within 12 months. And we all know how well Masters sets do at suppressing the price of chase mythics. Just look at Tarmogoyf: 3 different Masters reprintings and he's still $80-90. Womp womp.
Look, I don't want to totally derail this thread, and I'm not entirely unsympathetic to WotC. I think a significant amount of their recent problems (at least in regards to Standard) can be traced back to their initial decision to change how sets rotated, and having to walk that back and then work around it years later after so many decisions have already been made must have been tough. ***** happens. I get it, which is why I've mostly been supportive (of Standard) or at least not outright hostile (toward Masters sets).
But this Buy-a-Box promo thing is something new. I was uneasy when they announced unique Standard legal cards that would be exclusive to the Planeswalker decks but the constant assurances that they were explicitly designed to not be constructed viable were at least something. Now we didn't even get those. It's just "here's a unique Standard playable card and you can only get it as a Buy-a-Box promo". The fear of WotC accidentally (or "accidentally" if you're more cynical) printing a BaB promo card that ends up becoming a major player in Standard is real. I absolutely hate this decision and it makes me seriously consider the direction WotC is heading. Frankly I don't understand why they'd even take the risk. Like... Firesong and Sunspeaker isn't even a bad card. It's an effect we've only seen once before and a potentially powerful one: Hour of Devastation is still legal, for example. Good enough? Probably not but the point stands that there's a reasonable chance this promo is Standard playable despite not appearing in booster packs. WotC is playing with fire for no good reason as far as I can tell.
I think the value of this card will depend heavily on how hard they try to push Brawl. Looking at multiplayer EDH limited to standard... Boros has most of the format's board-wipes/sweepers. I can only imagine what it would be like watching them resolve a Star of Extinction in that card pool. We'll have to wait and see later today though.
WoTC, not hasbro. WoTC is owned by hasbro. Think of it this way: WoTC is like a department at hasbro while hasbro is the main company.
Yes, I know how it works. Which is why I said WOTC is a wholly owned subsidiary of Hasbro.
You claimed that WOTC was struggling, had falling sales, and was struggling to pay off the debts they had accrued, all with 0 evidence. I pointed out that the best data we have, the profitability of the parent company Hasbro, demonstrates they are doing just fine financially. You're right that we can't be certain what's happening with the WOTC part of Hasbro specifically, as that's not published, but you're the one making the claim. It's on you to prove the claim.
The best evidence we have shows Hasbro doing fine. If you want to claim that the WOTC division of Hasbro is struggling with debt, falling sales, and poorly managing where it invests its money, you need to back it up.
Do you realize the implications it would have if I could give a public, available record stating clearly and concisely, that an internal department at Hasbro is costing them money? They aren't going to give you proof. That's like having a skeleton in the closet and then going "Hey everybody, here's the skeleton you all sort of theorized existed!"
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
We've been through similar processes, people, but I appreciate the level of feedback (so they actually pay attention), but at the same time don't get too upset about it.
- Bad decision made
- Overwhelming negative feedback hits (and MaRo has to take the brunt of it when it's probably not his fault and he still has to be positive because he simply cannot admit mistakes during spoiler season, or the initial release period for the matter, because he cannot answer to sales, marketing and finance otherwise.)
- Mistake will last at least a year or two because that's how far they work ahead
- Mistake gets admitted about 3-6 months before reversion/changes occur
- Change occurs
- Bonus step: If something huge screws up in the process before the change (think TNN), emergency measures will be taken that might jeopardize the "promise of the mistake" (in this case they will probably drop the exclusive part if something truly meta-defining makes through the cut, but considering how well they've been maintaining low power-levels to date, I don't think the chances are high).
This is just a announcement to not get really upset if the scenario doesn't change in a year or two, a reminder that WotC works way ahead of time so its pointless to continue being angry over this all the time afterwards. As for why I chose to post this instead well, complaints, let's just say almost every angle about how this is a wrong move has been covered and I really don't feel like repeating what people already said, agreed and understand (but in case WotC reads this, I'm equally disappointed in the decision, don't let my lack-of-direct-anger mark satisfaction of any kind).
WoTC, not hasbro. WoTC is owned by hasbro. Think of it this way: WoTC is like a department at hasbro while hasbro is the main company.
Yes, I know how it works. Which is why I said WOTC is a wholly owned subsidiary of Hasbro.
You claimed that WOTC was struggling, had falling sales, and was struggling to pay off the debts they had accrued, all with 0 evidence. I pointed out that the best data we have, the profitability of the parent company Hasbro, demonstrates they are doing just fine financially. You're right that we can't be certain what's happening with the WOTC part of Hasbro specifically, as that's not published, but you're the one making the claim. It's on you to prove the claim.
The best evidence we have shows Hasbro doing fine. If you want to claim that the WOTC division of Hasbro is struggling with debt, falling sales, and poorly managing where it invests its money, you need to back it up.
Do you realize the implications it would have if I could give a public, available record stating clearly and concisely, that an internal department at Hasbro is costing them money? They aren't going to give you proof. That's like having a skeleton in the closet and then going "Hey everybody, here's the skeleton you all sort of theorized existed!"
None of which means you get to make assertions without evidence. Just because you can't get evidence doesn't mean you get to assume it exists. But you do you.
The message is loud and clear; this change is NOT wanted and WOTC understands, so...that's a plus.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Okay wait, someone might have said this already, but when Wizards put promos in the Duelist magazine (e.g., Mana Crypt, Arena, Nalathni Dragon), it was a huge controversy and Wizards said they never again make promos that were new cards. Isn't that kind of what Firesong and Sunspeaker is? I mean, it's easier to get, sure, but the fact that it's only available as a promo is kind of suspicious.
The message is loud and clear; this change is NOT wanted and WOTC understands, so...that's a plus.
Good link thanks Lou.
For those that think Hasbro is doing great, don't forget the Toys R Us situation. And the reason Hasbro has the numbers they post is because they squeeze all their sub divisions to push money up. I don't know if they leveraged WotC to acquire it or not but the limited info they publish does not show the detailed numbers of each division. It's all a wash that equals positive numbers so they can support stock price.
It was already silly to put standard legal cards outside of boosters but everyone said 'oh the cards are crap anyways'. To do it in this very limited way is yet another step in the wrong direction but why is it surprising?
I said it when they put the 'legal' cards in starter decks, 'this is only the first step' and now we see they felt it was just fine and have made a more aggressive move in that same direction. What's the next step? Fatal Push type card printed exclusively in an 8 card mini standard set that you can only buy on pre-release day if you participate? Fortunately people have shown they don't like it this time.
A move to push box sales isn't a move to improve the game, why would they feel the need to do something different to push box sales? Logic says they're not selling the # of boxes they need to. This kind of exclusivity doesn't make cards cheaper, it makes them more expensive at a time when standard participation at the LGS level is still suffering. The cost of standard is MORE of a problem than ever before, little moves like this don't give me faith they're going to be fixing anything.
If you want to brew with that card you're just plain screwed unless you buy a box. At my large LGS there are a limited number of BAB promos, only the first X number of orders get them.
Okay wait, someone might have said this already, but when Wizards put promos in the Duelist magazine (e.g., Mana Crypt, Arena, Nalathni Dragon), it was a huge controversy and Wizards said they never again make promos that were new cards. Isn't that kind of what Firesong and Sunspeaker is? I mean, it's easier to get, sure, but the fact that it's only available as a promo is kind of suspicious.
Yes, this has been brought up. And it's the reason this policy change is much more significant than a lot of people seem to realise, and is really not a good sign concerning the future of the game. Hopefully they'll listen to the feedback, promise to never do this again and reprint Firesong and Sunspeaker in some supplementary product down the line.
I'm going to buck the trend and say I'm all for the new BAB protocol. I like the idea of getting it a week early and I like the idea of getting an exclusive card (albeit a rather boring one it seems) by spending money at your LGS.
With that said I probably still won't participate as my LGS charges far more for a box than I can get online. Is paying 30 to 50 bucks over cost really worth it for opening them a week early? To me, not so much.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Really wanted to build a F+S Commander deck....looks like that's not happening now.
You'll be able to. There are a LOT of boxes being pre-ordered for this. My LGS guy said they had a cap of 60 boxes for the promo, and not all box buyers will rabidly hang on to the card. I expect a good amount to find their way to trade binders at inflated prices (maybe $5-$15 US) and then die down as Dominaria molds a format around itself. This isn't really...Mana Crypt or a Mythic rare you might need. Except, of course, I think rarity-wise this is higher than Mythic rarity. :s
Edit: I did pre-order a box for myself because of the promo, so we'll see where I go with the creature.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
I am preordering a box and I am happy to get F+S without worrying of cracking a booster to get him.
I think that most people in this thread are overreacting. There will be a gazillion of boxes cracked, so don't expect its price to hold a premium.Don't forget that it is a standard set.
I don't think this is a Necro since this conversation is suddenly relevant...
The newest buy-a-box is currently at $37.25 a piece. Used in a deck? Not really.
What it is... is rare. Exactly as I predicted in this thread, it is the second most expensive card in the entire set all because it is only available as a Buy-a-Box. Welcome to the future of Magic kiddos.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
You could get it for pretty much free at that point.
Then you got a deck its at least playable in, the fog-planeswalker deck.
Its especially good with Teferi and its friends if you can just loop it forever.
At that point the card jumped to now 15€ a pop and probably will go up, when more people jump on that deck.
----
It just perfectly shows how terrible it is to make a card that is even remotely important for a constructed deck restricted to Buy-a-Box, especially as some shops actually RUN OUT of the promo card and cannot even give you one even if you buy a box.
Would the card simply exist in the set and just be a foil, like it reasonable should be, all that issues would not exist.
I bet it will get reprinted in the next core set/supplemental set as a regular card. We might even see WOTC abandon the idea to make a promo that's not in the set...
This is the slippery slope that many of us has mentioned that would happen when Nexus of Fate was previewed. When you make cards that can ONLY be obtained as a BAB promo and it sees play in a Pro Tour or Grand Prix winning deck lists, then it causes a huge spikes in value and makes standard even harder to enter for newer players. Their solution to increase box sales SHOULD of been making BAB promos a more desirable card that is printed in the set. The last BAB promo that I thought was great was Thalia, Heretic Cathar from Eldritch Moon. I think that should be a good direction for BAB promos: Desirable Rares or Mythics in the set!
But I think that this stems from a much bigger problem. If WotC needs to create special, new, only obtainable through buying a box on release, cards for BAB promos to sell boxes, then that must mean that the sets aren't selling well due to the booster boxes not being strong or desirable sets. A vast majority of common and uncommon cards in these recent sets are draft chaff. And Ixalan and Rivals of Ixalan were one of the worst draft sets that I've personally experienced in awhile.
I've also heard that WoTC is on damage control on MTGO, adjusting the chances in chests for Nexus of Fate. I think that WotC knows they screwed the pooch on this one and I can't wait to see how they react to the public outcry for this card in the future, but like a lot of things in MTG recently, I only expect some sort of disappointment.
WoTC, not hasbro. WoTC is owned by hasbro. Think of it this way: WoTC is like a department at hasbro while hasbro is the main company.
Yes, I know how it works. Which is why I said WOTC is a wholly owned subsidiary of Hasbro.
You claimed that WOTC was struggling, had falling sales, and was struggling to pay off the debts they had accrued, all with 0 evidence. I pointed out that the best data we have, the profitability of the parent company Hasbro, demonstrates they are doing just fine financially. You're right that we can't be certain what's happening with the WOTC part of Hasbro specifically, as that's not published, but you're the one making the claim. It's on you to prove the claim.
The best evidence we have shows Hasbro doing fine. If you want to claim that the WOTC division of Hasbro is struggling with debt, falling sales, and poorly managing where it invests its money, you need to back it up.
Do you realize the implications it would have if I could give a public, available record stating clearly and concisely, that an internal department at Hasbro is costing them money? They aren't going to give you proof. That's like having a skeleton in the closet and then going "Hey everybody, here's the skeleton you all sort of theorized existed!"
None of which means you get to make assertions without evidence. Just because you can't get evidence doesn't mean you get to assume it exists. But you do you.
Okay, I wasn't expecting I'd run into Jack Hardemeyer from Ghost Busters 2. A company doesn't drastically change their product line up and print runs, swap to different printers and make adjustments to their printed cards, publicly talks about reworking their internal design team, and also admits they lost a lot of players over a not too long period of time, if they are doing fine. I honestly could care less about the garbage information they decide to give to investors who are too busy messing around to notice all the signs to the contrary.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I mean, the card was spot on playable (if not in standard then in modern and commander). Why Firesong and Sunspeake where fine as a Buy a Box? Cause they didn't had suport or they weren't the suport for any deck. Karn's temporal sundering was almost standard playable as well. For me this was a move on R&D to try to sell more boxes. Playtester should see this is playable realy easily.
This is the slippery slope that many of us has mentioned that would happen when Nexus of Fate was previewed. When you make cards that can ONLY be obtained as a BAB promo and it sees play in a Pro Tour or Grand Prix winning deck lists, then it causes a huge spikes in value and makes standard even harder to enter for newer players. Their solution to increase box sales SHOULD of been making BAB promos a more desirable card that is printed in the set. The last BAB promo that I thought was great was Thalia, Heretic Cathar from Eldritch Moon. I think that should be a good direction for BAB promos: Desirable Rares or Mythics in the set!
But I think that this stems from a much bigger problem. If WotC needs to create special, new, only obtainable through buying a box on release, cards for BAB promos to sell boxes, then that must mean that the sets aren't selling well due to the booster boxes not being strong or desirable sets. A vast majority of common and uncommon cards in these recent sets are draft chaff. And Ixalan and Rivals of Ixalan were one of the worst draft sets that I've personally experienced in awhile.
I've also heard that WoTC is on damage control on MTGO, adjusting the chances in chests for Nexus of Fate. I think that WotC knows they screwed the pooch on this one and I can't wait to see how they react to the public outcry for this card in the future, but like a lot of things in MTG recently, I only expect some sort of disappointment.
Thank GOD for eternal formats!
Buy a Box exists since original Zendikar (collunate was a Buy a Box promo) and if you see all the promos Wizards did try to put playble cards as those promos and they did it until recently (ixalan block had one bab card that could be playable and it got mass printed, in showndown packs). Imo Nexus of Fate was a card they know people would play (they made it playable enough for constructed) but did not see it getting played in standard (that is what i want to belive).
It is really hard to chose a promo from the set imo wotc should continue with unique promos, but at least reprint them if they get played.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
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Apparently, according to this twitter thread, Pros experimented with breaking Soul of the Harvest (legal in standard because it was in the 2016 welcome deck), and Flame Lash(from Chandras PW deck) were played at a Pro Tour. These were cards that were explicitly meant not to be standard viable, yet got there/close. They could make this mistake again.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
The Tree was merely the most noticeable exemplar of the problems that have been plaguing the Masters sets for years at this point; they are trying to achieve two fundamentally opposed goals and it is dramatically weighing them down. WotC cannot justify reprinting Colossal Dreadmaw in a $10/pack set after it has been printed in the two most recent Standard. Either the sets are designed for Limited (in which case the current MSRP is absurd) or they are primarily reprint vehicles (in which case, see again Tree of Redemption or any other draft chaff). Masters sets cannot serve both interest and they're failing for it. The vast majority of the feedback I've seen has been getting progressively more negative as people get fed up with paying $10 for Triskaidekaphobia.
As an aside, at least Channel is, in fact, iconic. It's called Channel-Fireball for a reason. Until A25 came out, if someone had asked me to name cards from Innistrad I probably would have gotten dozens deep before I thought of that stupid Tree. It's a mediocre Limited card, it's a bad value card, and instead of bringing me nostalgia it has actively tainted my previously fond memories of triple INN. It was a failure on every possible level.
Yes yes... the "they've been talking about it" defense. Weird how they only actually unbanned it when there was another Masters set to push out into a grossly over-saturated market. They could have preemptively put Daddy Jace in Eternal Masters, or a Commander deck, or a Conspiracy-style set. But they didn't. Instead they waited until he could generate maximum hype for their third(!!!) Masters release within 12 months. And we all know how well Masters sets do at suppressing the price of chase mythics. Just look at Tarmogoyf: 3 different Masters reprintings and he's still $80-90. Womp womp.
Look, I don't want to totally derail this thread, and I'm not entirely unsympathetic to WotC. I think a significant amount of their recent problems (at least in regards to Standard) can be traced back to their initial decision to change how sets rotated, and having to walk that back and then work around it years later after so many decisions have already been made must have been tough. ***** happens. I get it, which is why I've mostly been supportive (of Standard) or at least not outright hostile (toward Masters sets).
But this Buy-a-Box promo thing is something new. I was uneasy when they announced unique Standard legal cards that would be exclusive to the Planeswalker decks but the constant assurances that they were explicitly designed to not be constructed viable were at least something. Now we didn't even get those. It's just "here's a unique Standard playable card and you can only get it as a Buy-a-Box promo". The fear of WotC accidentally (or "accidentally" if you're more cynical) printing a BaB promo card that ends up becoming a major player in Standard is real. I absolutely hate this decision and it makes me seriously consider the direction WotC is heading. Frankly I don't understand why they'd even take the risk. Like... Firesong and Sunspeaker isn't even a bad card. It's an effect we've only seen once before and a potentially powerful one: Hour of Devastation is still legal, for example. Good enough? Probably not but the point stands that there's a reasonable chance this promo is Standard playable despite not appearing in booster packs. WotC is playing with fire for no good reason as far as I can tell.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Do you realize the implications it would have if I could give a public, available record stating clearly and concisely, that an internal department at Hasbro is costing them money? They aren't going to give you proof. That's like having a skeleton in the closet and then going "Hey everybody, here's the skeleton you all sort of theorized existed!"
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
- Bad decision made
- Overwhelming negative feedback hits (and MaRo has to take the brunt of it when it's probably not his fault and he still has to be positive because he simply cannot admit mistakes during spoiler season, or the initial release period for the matter, because he cannot answer to sales, marketing and finance otherwise.)
- Mistake will last at least a year or two because that's how far they work ahead
- Mistake gets admitted about 3-6 months before reversion/changes occur
- Change occurs
- Bonus step: If something huge screws up in the process before the change (think TNN), emergency measures will be taken that might jeopardize the "promise of the mistake" (in this case they will probably drop the exclusive part if something truly meta-defining makes through the cut, but considering how well they've been maintaining low power-levels to date, I don't think the chances are high).
This is just a announcement to not get really upset if the scenario doesn't change in a year or two, a reminder that WotC works way ahead of time so its pointless to continue being angry over this all the time afterwards. As for why I chose to post this instead well, complaints, let's just say almost every angle about how this is a wrong move has been covered and I really don't feel like repeating what people already said, agreed and understand (but in case WotC reads this, I'm equally disappointed in the decision, don't let my lack-of-direct-anger mark satisfaction of any kind).
None of which means you get to make assertions without evidence. Just because you can't get evidence doesn't mean you get to assume it exists. But you do you.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
The message is loud and clear; this change is NOT wanted and WOTC understands, so...that's a plus.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Good link thanks Lou.
For those that think Hasbro is doing great, don't forget the Toys R Us situation. And the reason Hasbro has the numbers they post is because they squeeze all their sub divisions to push money up. I don't know if they leveraged WotC to acquire it or not but the limited info they publish does not show the detailed numbers of each division. It's all a wash that equals positive numbers so they can support stock price.
It was already silly to put standard legal cards outside of boosters but everyone said 'oh the cards are crap anyways'. To do it in this very limited way is yet another step in the wrong direction but why is it surprising?
I said it when they put the 'legal' cards in starter decks, 'this is only the first step' and now we see they felt it was just fine and have made a more aggressive move in that same direction. What's the next step? Fatal Push type card printed exclusively in an 8 card mini standard set that you can only buy on pre-release day if you participate? Fortunately people have shown they don't like it this time.
A move to push box sales isn't a move to improve the game, why would they feel the need to do something different to push box sales? Logic says they're not selling the # of boxes they need to. This kind of exclusivity doesn't make cards cheaper, it makes them more expensive at a time when standard participation at the LGS level is still suffering. The cost of standard is MORE of a problem than ever before, little moves like this don't give me faith they're going to be fixing anything.
If you want to brew with that card you're just plain screwed unless you buy a box. At my large LGS there are a limited number of BAB promos, only the first X number of orders get them.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Yes, this has been brought up. And it's the reason this policy change is much more significant than a lot of people seem to realise, and is really not a good sign concerning the future of the game. Hopefully they'll listen to the feedback, promise to never do this again and reprint Firesong and Sunspeaker in some supplementary product down the line.
With that said I probably still won't participate as my LGS charges far more for a box than I can get online. Is paying 30 to 50 bucks over cost really worth it for opening them a week early? To me, not so much.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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You'll be able to. There are a LOT of boxes being pre-ordered for this. My LGS guy said they had a cap of 60 boxes for the promo, and not all box buyers will rabidly hang on to the card. I expect a good amount to find their way to trade binders at inflated prices (maybe $5-$15 US) and then die down as Dominaria molds a format around itself. This isn't really...Mana Crypt or a Mythic rare you might need. Except, of course, I think rarity-wise this is higher than Mythic rarity. :s
Edit: I did pre-order a box for myself because of the promo, so we'll see where I go with the creature.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
I think that most people in this thread are overreacting. There will be a gazillion of boxes cracked, so don't expect its price to hold a premium.Don't forget that it is a standard set.
Marath, Will of the Wild
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Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
The newest buy-a-box is currently at $37.25 a piece. Used in a deck? Not really.
What it is... is rare. Exactly as I predicted in this thread, it is the second most expensive card in the entire set all because it is only available as a Buy-a-Box. Welcome to the future of Magic kiddos.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
You could get it for pretty much free at that point.
Then you got a deck its at least playable in, the fog-planeswalker deck.
Its especially good with Teferi and its friends if you can just loop it forever.
At that point the card jumped to now 15€ a pop and probably will go up, when more people jump on that deck.
----
It just perfectly shows how terrible it is to make a card that is even remotely important for a constructed deck restricted to Buy-a-Box, especially as some shops actually RUN OUT of the promo card and cannot even give you one even if you buy a box.
Would the card simply exist in the set and just be a foil, like it reasonable should be, all that issues would not exist.
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👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
But I think that this stems from a much bigger problem. If WotC needs to create special, new, only obtainable through buying a box on release, cards for BAB promos to sell boxes, then that must mean that the sets aren't selling well due to the booster boxes not being strong or desirable sets. A vast majority of common and uncommon cards in these recent sets are draft chaff. And Ixalan and Rivals of Ixalan were one of the worst draft sets that I've personally experienced in awhile.
I've also heard that WoTC is on damage control on MTGO, adjusting the chances in chests for Nexus of Fate. I think that WotC knows they screwed the pooch on this one and I can't wait to see how they react to the public outcry for this card in the future, but like a lot of things in MTG recently, I only expect some sort of disappointment.
Thank GOD for eternal formats!
Standard: Risky Burn, Aggro/Burn, Tempo
Modern: Goblins, Budget 8 Rack, Soul Sisters, 42 Land Swan Hunt, Stompy, Burn
Pauper: Miracles, Madness
Okay, I wasn't expecting I'd run into Jack Hardemeyer from Ghost Busters 2. A company doesn't drastically change their product line up and print runs, swap to different printers and make adjustments to their printed cards, publicly talks about reworking their internal design team, and also admits they lost a lot of players over a not too long period of time, if they are doing fine. I honestly could care less about the garbage information they decide to give to investors who are too busy messing around to notice all the signs to the contrary.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Buy a Box exists since original Zendikar (collunate was a Buy a Box promo) and if you see all the promos Wizards did try to put playble cards as those promos and they did it until recently (ixalan block had one bab card that could be playable and it got mass printed, in showndown packs). Imo Nexus of Fate was a card they know people would play (they made it playable enough for constructed) but did not see it getting played in standard (that is what i want to belive).
It is really hard to chose a promo from the set imo wotc should continue with unique promos, but at least reprint them if they get played.
Yeah, I bought my playset for a relative song a while back—
it was kind of obvious this would happen.
Of course, with something like this, WotC could stealthily regulate the market.
Not sure if they would though.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
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