People keep asking for Lightning Bolt, Counterspell, etc... which I would enjoy also. But what I don't understand is why Wizards won't throw us a bone with cards like Terror or other good but "outclassed" removal spells? Give us something to work with.
People keep asking for Lightning Bolt, Counterspell, etc... which I would enjoy also. But what I don't understand is why Wizards won't throw us a bone with cards like Terror or other good but "outclassed" removal spells? Give us something to work with.
I can't agree more. We can't get or barely get Terror, Doom Blade, Lightning Strike, and decent counters (that aren't rare) so there's no real reason to think that we would be getting the things that would be much better.
People keep asking for Lightning Bolt, Counterspell, etc... which I would enjoy also. But what I don't understand is why Wizards won't throw us a bone with cards like Terror or other good but "outclassed" removal spells? Give us something to work with.
I hope that Doomblade or a variant is in again. I could see Smother or a variant to handle the cycle of insane devoted three-drops we've seen in the leaked FAQ.
But the mere fact that they have both Llanowar Elves and suche efficient turn-two folow-ups makes it likely there is something at cmc 1 or 2 that solves creatures nicely.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Honestly, I'd rather have more ways to get around opponents trying to kill my stuff. We could use Heroic Intervention in M19, or more things like Glyph Keeper. I'd like to see Defense Grid again, too.
The big mistake here was not reprinting Lightning Bolt and Counterspell in Dominaria instead of Masters 25 where they would've been Standard legal.
Why do people keep asking for Lightning Bolt? The last time it was in Standard it completely warped the kind of creatures you generally used. It wasn't a great time.
Bolt is never a bad thing. I will shed no tears for Creature decks, ever.
Yeah, but that would imply that Wizards would just let Creature decks die. No, printing Bolt means that now Green has to get a 3/4 for 3. Just like when they gave us Anger of the Gods, and all of a sudden everything was X/4, or when they gave us Languish and everything was X/5.
Yeah, but that would imply that Wizards would just let Creature decks die. No, printing Bolt means that now Green has to get a 3/4 for 3. Just like when they gave us Anger of the Gods, and all of a sudden everything was X/4, or when they gave us Languish and everything was X/5.
This is one of the reasons I don't want Lightning Bolt, btw. It is grounds for starting an arms race between creature toughness and burn that just is not healthy, facilitating power creep (toughness creep?).
It's the level of universal spot removal that's more relevant to keeping creatures in check. Your Murder+.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
The legendary sorceries feel clunky to me too. I don’t see how something appealing to commander has to be unappealing in a normal set. We’ve only seen half the set. There is plenty more to tie things together. Legendary is one of the big themes of the set. Why is being a Timmy a bad thing? Why are you bandying about that term as if it is a bludgeon? Why does my sentimental attachment to elves make me stupid and incapable of card assessment? You don’t have to be casual to be a Timmy. You just have to like things for the emotional or sentimental attachment. That is what NOSTALGIA is. OF COURSE the set is going to have appeal to Timmy. It is a nostalgia set. We don’t all have to be WAAC spikes. Every set doesn’t have to be exclusively for WAAC spikes. FYI, timmy doesn’t specifically like a thing for the casting cost. I happen to like efficiency and synergy with my cards, and I like to win. I can like a card AND realize it isn’t playable. Guess what? There isn’t anything wrong with that. Maybe you should be patient and wait for more cards before damning the whole set for being unappealing Timmy trash.
Yup, because anybody who isn't a cutthroat tourney grinder obviously doesn't know how to play real Magic and isn't intelligent enough to evaluate cards. And because I can't play all 5 of the CCC uncommons in the same deck WotC obviously wasn't trying hard enough to make the set worth it in Standard, i.e. Real Magic (TM).
I gave up on competitive Magic after the realization that the only enjoyment of the game in that setting hinges on winning and that 100% of your opponents don't want you to have fun. These days I'll take a 2-hour Commander game that I lose but with a humorous story to tell over grinding someone to tears with Stax any day, and I don't take kindly to being told I'm a "young child and or idiot", thank you very much.
- In part because there's a lot of kinda clunky design. How much "historic" stuff is realisticaly going to be around in a game? If the next set is mirrodinesque and loaded with artifacts, then we're talking one thing, if not, we're talking Kamigawa.
Considering the that 2/3s of "historic" cards are artifacts and legendaries I'd have to say that they'll be around for a long time in the game. Sagas are the only thing here that we may not see for quite some time.
- How many of these cards can realistically be played togather? There's a 3 same colored cycle, many double same color casting costs, yet many multicolored cards and potentially a pressure to play those and noone who can actually play magic wants to put many multicolored cards in the same deck as cards with two of the same color in the casting cost.
Heavy mono colored costs are not bad. Outside of Devotion we rarely ever see a focus on that. Also, there's no need to ask if you complain multiple XXX casting costing cards together in the same deck. Mana won't be perfect and that's okay to not be able to play 3 out of the 5 of the cycle in the same deck.
- It's a bit hard to tell the rarity of the cards in the current spoiler, so it's hard to say whether something is a pushed common or a rare you never want to open.
Well yeah it's hard to tell because the spoiler doesn't have the rarity.
- There's a bunch of reprints, and some of them are kinda useless nostalgia reprints.
Verdant Force might put in some work. Seeing reprints is always a good thing.
- There's a lot of legends, and that pretty much never worked. It's a straight up drawback which only appeals to people on a level disconected from actual gameplay.
It tends to not work as the rest of the set doesn't support it well, but with only half of it shown it's hard to say if this will work out. We'll have to wait and see on this one.
- The kickers mostly seem like very low-power variants of the mechanic, with Timmy appeal for lond drawn out games which just don't happen if both people at the table know how to actually put together a deck and play the game. Whether any of those kickers ever get used depends highly on the metagame and format. Proper, usable kicker costs in most cases don't cost mana.
Usable kicker never costs mana? I'm not sure what that means, it's where when the kicker doesn't cost mana. There have been plenty of cards with kicker or kicker variant abilities that have seen play that have cost mana.
There were plenty of kicker costs and variants which didn't cost mana
Plenty? Of the 113 Kicker/multikicker cards in Magic's history to date, one had "bounce a creature you control", one had "sac a creature", one had "tap a vampire", one had "pay life", five had "Sacrifice land(s)"... and *104* had kicker or multikicker costs involving the payment of Mana. That's 92% of kicker cards whose kicker involved mana.
And this set has at least one non-mana kicker spell as well, of the ten kicker cards we've seen so far. Goblin Barrage has "Kicker—Sacrifice an artifact or Goblin." That's 90% mana-involved kickers - LESS than Magic's historical average.
Oh, and I'm not trolling at all. I made great money of Timmies in my life back when there wasn't any internet and price lists on everyone's phone. I acually did the following - load up a suitcase full of useless cards and put it on the table where I was playing at our play space. Folks would come to me with their cards, I'd pick what I want, and tell them to take whatever out of the suitcase, and if they were too timid not to pick too much stuff I'd grab a handful at random on top of what they chose. And they'd tell all their friends about how there was this guy you could scam for cards, all happy with the transaction. Nothing they could possibly take was worth anything, and most things I'd pick from their cards were worth more than the suitcase, let alone the cards in it. And I didn't have any price lists available either, I was just able to tell a magic card from random pieces of cardboard, and they weren't. This is what made them "Timmies" and me a "Spike". This made me more able to put together any number of decks a Timmy would want to have than any Timmy, while all Timmies were able to do is line up to give me money for nothing. I wouldn't even pressure anyone into anything, it's the kind of person who insists on being robbed. One guy gave me a box of insanely expensive cards... for a prereleae foil from Torment. Which would've been worth nothing even if it was powerful. But because it was shiny, and it had a big power and mana cost, this guy gave me two competitive decks worth of money for it, and he wasn't rich or anything. I didn't even want to rob him, but he kept bugging me and begging me to trade, so I gave in an just robbed the guy blind. And your basic Timmy wouldn't want to trade with someone who offered them a honest trade because they couldn't make the connection between what cards did and how this reflected on their price, they'd instead rush to me who just let them rob themselves. My brother and I even had a good cop bad cop routine, where he'd offer them honest trades and this would make them get suspicious so they'd rather go over to the suitcase. They're the sort of people who can't tell who's the good cop and who's the bad cop at all.
Now I'm all for for everyone having their fun, different strokes and all that, but "Timmy" means what it means. You open a card worth 2 cents and completely unplayale in a game of Magic, you go find a Timmy who'll give you 50$ worth of playables for it. That's how it is, always was, way before there was a "commander" or anything. If I caught my kid behaving like a Timmy, I wouldn't pet him on the head and say "Awww, who's my little Timmy" - I'd take away his cards and be really careful about letting him handle money.
So, in the 18 posts you've made on MTGSalvation, you've insulted a large part of the Magic playerbase, said that "Your basic Timmy can't even read, he doesn't care what the card does," and bragged about robbing people blind. You're the type of person who would get kicked out of our playgroup and likely banned from our store. Just because someone can appreciate playing the game in a different way than you does not make them stupid.
And cards can absolutely be good in both standard and casual - just not every card. This set has a lot to offer to lots of types of players. I'd call that a win.
I'm not proud, I just know how things stand. That's how it is. And it wasn't just kids, age's got nothing to do with it. I was a kid, many of them were older than I was. You either understand magic well enough to tell good cards from the bad, or You get ripped off by me. It never meant anything other than that.
Fixed that for you.
Just stop before your digging ends up on the other side of the earth
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Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
I'm not proud, I just know how things stand. That's how it is. And it wasn't just kids, age's got nothing to do with it. I was a kid, many of them were older than I was. You either understand magic well enough to tell good cards from the bad, or you're a Timmy. It never meant anything other than that.
You're fundamentally misunderstanding the way games work. "Good" or "bad" only exists in a context. You've repeatedly referenced "real MtG" as if there was only one way to play the game. That's not how it works. You may be winning at your own game, but you are losing at other players' games. That doesn't make them dumber than you. That just means they have other goals.
Hey, Iuj086 - welcome to the forums. Your presence here is greatly appreciated, because you teach several valuable lessons. Chief among them is that the MtG community is full of swindling scammers, and law-of-the-jungle sharks who will lie and cheat you out of your cards, your money, and your fun - only the smart will survive to enjoy this game, death to the unworthy n00b! Pfft. Darwinism at its finest.
Your brand of selfish, blustering toxicity is part of why I stopped playing for a little under 10 years. So let's make this perfectly clear: you, Iuj086, are bad for the game. You discourage new players, and make the community less enjoyable for established players. The general MtG community doesn't like people like you. Please, either learn to be nice and act with some integrity, or leave the game and don't come back. Go be a jerk in some other community. You will find that we have very little patience for this kind of crap.
PS: you made a duplicate post. I assume you meant to edit the first one, but accidentally created a new one with minor edits instead. Please delete one of them
Hey, Iuj086 - welcome to the forums. Your presence here is greatly appreciated, because you teach several valuable lessons. Chief among them is that the MtG community is full of swindling scammers, and law-of-the-jungle sharks who will lie and cheat you out of your cards, your money, and your fun - only the smart will survive to enjoy this game, death to the unworthy n00b! Pfft. Darwinism at its finest.
Your brand of selfish, blustering toxicity is part of why I stopped playing for a little under 10 years. So let's make this perfectly clear: you, Iuj086, are bad for the game. You discourage new players, and make the community less enjoyable for established players. The general MtG community doesn't like people like you. Please, either learn to be nice and act with some integrity, or leave the game and don't come back. Go be a jerk in some other community. You will find that we have very little patience for this kind of crap.
You still don't understand. I'm not saying they use a different ruleset.
I'm saying you are playing the game of "how can I win the most tournaments". Someone else might be playing the game of "how can I have the coolest scene playing out in my mind." They are evaluating cards for a different game which is also equivalently Magic, but which doesn't care about whether the tournament rules define you as winning or losing.
That is a Timmy (specifically a Timmy-Vorthos). The goal they are trying to achieve is fundamentally different from your goal. That doesn't make it invalid; that doesn't make it "not playing the game". In particular, the designers of Magic also specifically advocate for this goal and design cards with that as a direct intent. For those who care about originalism, there's a strong argument that Timmy - the person who plays for the experience rather than for winning - is the original Magic player, because when Magic started there was no such thing as tournament rules.
You can say that you personally prefer the tournament-rules-defined victory process. That is perfectly fine. Telling others that their playstyle - one that is specifically supported by the designers and makers of the game - is not "the real game", and that they are dumb or don't understand the cards? That's not fine.
Specifically with regard to understanding: there are Timmy players who specifically and explicitly look at two cards in a draft and decide "A is more likely to win the tournament, but B is more fun", and therefore choose B. They don't lack in understanding; their goals are just different, and you are insulting them needlessly.
I'm not insulting them needlessly (obviously insulting people rarely leads anywhere good, what I mean is to say is baselessly) because at the bottom line in order for boosters to sell the set needs to draft well, and Timmy sets generally don't.
And you have seen half the set, and don't know the "twist on drafting" that they are going to be doing.
So in this sense there's a tangible reason to worry about the set catering to a certain crowd,
You mean not catering to you by being Mirrodin 2, because Mirrodin for all of it's "power" was a totally well designed set and not a poorly balanced mess.
there's plenty of things in there which kinda look interesting or even powerful at first glance, but suspiciously look like the sort of thing which turns out to not really be all that good. There's things which is exactly what it looks like, there's things which have "lurking dissapointment" written all over them, but there doesn't seem to be enough cards a good and experienced player knows are great in non-splashy ways.
Which cards, specifically, are the ones that appear interesting or powerful at first glance but which are not going to be very good once people try to use them? Which cards, specifically, are lurking disappointments? I am curious as to your reasoning on these specifics.
The 'twist' on drafting has to be some kind of Commander thing, because I feel like anything else would have clues in the spoilers we've already seen. Every pack will have a legendary creature, sooooo...I can't think of what else it could be.
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
I know Black doesn't get mana acceleration anymore, but I need a broken black combo in my life...
Spirits
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
I can't agree more. We can't get or barely get Terror, Doom Blade, Lightning Strike, and decent counters (that aren't rare) so there's no real reason to think that we would be getting the things that would be much better.
I hope that Doomblade or a variant is in again. I could see Smother or a variant to handle the cycle of insane devoted three-drops we've seen in the leaked FAQ.
But the mere fact that they have both Llanowar Elves and suche efficient turn-two folow-ups makes it likely there is something at cmc 1 or 2 that solves creatures nicely.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Yeah, but that would imply that Wizards would just let Creature decks die. No, printing Bolt means that now Green has to get a 3/4 for 3. Just like when they gave us Anger of the Gods, and all of a sudden everything was X/4, or when they gave us Languish and everything was X/5.
Spirits
This is one of the reasons I don't want Lightning Bolt, btw. It is grounds for starting an arms race between creature toughness and burn that just is not healthy, facilitating power creep (toughness creep?).
It's the level of universal spot removal that's more relevant to keeping creatures in check. Your Murder+.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
EDH is a CASUAL format. Get with the program, or GTFO.
I gave up on competitive Magic after the realization that the only enjoyment of the game in that setting hinges on winning and that 100% of your opponents don't want you to have fun. These days I'll take a 2-hour Commander game that I lose but with a humorous story to tell over grinding someone to tears with Stax any day, and I don't take kindly to being told I'm a "young child and or idiot", thank you very much.
Considering the that 2/3s of "historic" cards are artifacts and legendaries I'd have to say that they'll be around for a long time in the game. Sagas are the only thing here that we may not see for quite some time.
Heavy mono colored costs are not bad. Outside of Devotion we rarely ever see a focus on that. Also, there's no need to ask if you complain multiple XXX casting costing cards together in the same deck. Mana won't be perfect and that's okay to not be able to play 3 out of the 5 of the cycle in the same deck.
Well yeah it's hard to tell because the spoiler doesn't have the rarity.
Verdant Force might put in some work. Seeing reprints is always a good thing.
It tends to not work as the rest of the set doesn't support it well, but with only half of it shown it's hard to say if this will work out. We'll have to wait and see on this one.
Usable kicker never costs mana? I'm not sure what that means, it's where when the kicker doesn't cost mana. There have been plenty of cards with kicker or kicker variant abilities that have seen play that have cost mana.
We have a real winner here folks!
Plenty? Of the 113 Kicker/multikicker cards in Magic's history to date, one had "bounce a creature you control", one had "sac a creature", one had "tap a vampire", one had "pay life", five had "Sacrifice land(s)"... and *104* had kicker or multikicker costs involving the payment of Mana. That's 92% of kicker cards whose kicker involved mana.
And this set has at least one non-mana kicker spell as well, of the ten kicker cards we've seen so far. Goblin Barrage has "Kicker—Sacrifice an artifact or Goblin." That's 90% mana-involved kickers - LESS than Magic's historical average.
And cards can absolutely be good in both standard and casual - just not every card. This set has a lot to offer to lots of types of players. I'd call that a win.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
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Fixed that for you.
Just stop before your digging ends up on the other side of the earth
Your brand of selfish, blustering toxicity is part of why I stopped playing for a little under 10 years. So let's make this perfectly clear: you, Iuj086, are bad for the game. You discourage new players, and make the community less enjoyable for established players. The general MtG community doesn't like people like you. Please, either learn to be nice and act with some integrity, or leave the game and don't come back. Go be a jerk in some other community. You will find that we have very little patience for this kind of crap.
PS: you made a duplicate post. I assume you meant to edit the first one, but accidentally created a new one with minor edits instead. Please delete one of them
Yup
I'm saying you are playing the game of "how can I win the most tournaments". Someone else might be playing the game of "how can I have the coolest scene playing out in my mind." They are evaluating cards for a different game which is also equivalently Magic, but which doesn't care about whether the tournament rules define you as winning or losing.
That is a Timmy (specifically a Timmy-Vorthos). The goal they are trying to achieve is fundamentally different from your goal. That doesn't make it invalid; that doesn't make it "not playing the game". In particular, the designers of Magic also specifically advocate for this goal and design cards with that as a direct intent. For those who care about originalism, there's a strong argument that Timmy - the person who plays for the experience rather than for winning - is the original Magic player, because when Magic started there was no such thing as tournament rules.
You can say that you personally prefer the tournament-rules-defined victory process. That is perfectly fine. Telling others that their playstyle - one that is specifically supported by the designers and makers of the game - is not "the real game", and that they are dumb or don't understand the cards? That's not fine.
Specifically with regard to understanding: there are Timmy players who specifically and explicitly look at two cards in a draft and decide "A is more likely to win the tournament, but B is more fun", and therefore choose B. They don't lack in understanding; their goals are just different, and you are insulting them needlessly.
And you have seen half the set, and don't know the "twist on drafting" that they are going to be doing.
You mean not catering to you by being Mirrodin 2, because Mirrodin for all of it's "power" was a totally well designed set and not a poorly balanced mess.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Which cards, specifically, are the ones that appear interesting or powerful at first glance but which are not going to be very good once people try to use them? Which cards, specifically, are lurking disappointments? I am curious as to your reasoning on these specifics.
My 720 Peasant Cube
Incorrect
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/dominaria-previews-and-moving-forward-2018-03-12
March 21st
But exlcuding the basic lands you probably mean't the other 107