Its just very inconsistent mana, as the opponent can kill your legendary creature and you are stranded without making mana.
So its a real drawback and just increases the decks high and increases its brick level.
This is not a problem--all cards have drawbacks. Right now, everything is speculation and all speculative plans are equally valid. Only when reality arrives will we start ruling things out.
IRT the Mox hype train, they could recreate all of them with the legendary super type and have a requirement that you need a specific land type in play to use or sac to be different from Mox Amber. Heck you can even duplicate the Mox Diamond mechanic as a single color if you wanted. Overall, I don't think they would do this and just leave it with Mox Amber because of the legendary theme going on in Dominaria.
I do agree that at some point Mox Amber will find a place in a Modern deck. Mox Opal was in an artifacts matter set and fits nicely in affinity builds. I don't see Mox Amber being abused in Standard mainly because of the legendary rule. With over 100 more cards to come out, I'm curious to see how they will fill out the legendary theme and Dominaria throw-back.
I think the safest creature to use with Mox Amber is Geist of Saint Traft. Also, Leyline of Singularity can help enable the mox, but I think it would be better to just have another legendary creature or a planeswalker than to try and land a do-nothing enchantment. It's the same kind of effect that Arcane Adaptation has for tribal cards and no one runs that because it's a dead play.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think the safest creature to use with Mox Amber is Geist of Saint Traft. Also, Leyline of Singularity can help enable the mox, but I think it would be better to just have another legendary creature or a planeswalker than to try and land a do-nothing enchantment. It's the same kind of effect that Arcane Adaptation has for tribal cards and no one runs that because it's a dead play.
It works really fairly well in UR storm , they use Baral, Chief of Compliance anyway and you get Storm+Mana , its pretty much a ritual.
To get a more critical number of legendary creatures, slam tiny Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and you are pretty much ready to rock.
That pretty much already works, its just not CRAZY powerful as Mox Opal is in Affinity.
So, holy crap is the new Karn way better than I thought he is. I did NOT realize he starts at 5 loyalty and gives card draw. That guy is potentially Chandra, Torch of Defiance good, only he slots into any deck. He even makes little 1/1 robot thingies that get bigger with artifacts on the board. What the heck is this thing?! I thought we were going towards Angrath, the Flame-Chained being what walkers are supposed to be like.
The only thing I don't like about him is that the opponent will choose the worst card for the turn and if one of the two cards is the game winner, you can't draw it until the next turn rolls around.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Btw I don't think Karn is going to be 30 usd when the set releases. Still not sure if he is going up or down, but he's the first walker in a long time that gives card advantage and defends himself while working in just about any color combination.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Some think mox amber is the second coming of the original moxen, some think it's utter garbage. There are a lot of legendaries in this set so I'm inclined to think they playtested it heavily and thought it fair enough to print or well worth putting in to sell packs.
While its not nearly as powerful in Standard as I think it will be in Modern (where there are more 1 CMC legends like Isamaru, Hound of Konda), there are several 2 CMC legends in the leak such as Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive, Naban, Dean of Iteration, and Shanna, Sisay's Legacy, all of which can bring Mox Amber online on turn 2 and grant you four mana on turn three. Plus, in green you have Llanowar elves which can help you ramp into Slimefoot, the Stowaway, Kumena, tyrant of Orazca, Rhona the Indomitable, and Rishkar, Peema Renegade on turn 2, again bringing the mox online if you haven't already done so with Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter. Hell, if playing green and white, you can drop the mox and an elf on turn one, play a plains on turn 2, drop Shanna and another elf using the now active mox, and effectively ramp all the way to turn 6 on turn three! Now, say what you will about the playability of any one of those specific legends, this means that in Standard the Mox should be at least as playable as Llanowar Elves in both geen and blue decks as well as green/white and green/black. You just need to play your cards right and maybe slot in some legends you wouldn't otherwise play with.
Some think mox amber is the second coming of the original moxen, some think it's utter garbage. There are a lot of legendaries in this set so I'm inclined to think they playtested it heavily and thought it fair enough to print or well worth putting in to sell packs.
While its not nearly as powerful in Standard as I think it will be in Modern (where there are more 1 CMC legends like Isamaru, Hound of Konda), there are several 2 CMC legends in the leak such as Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive, Naban, Dean of Iteration, and Shanna, Sisay's Legacy, all of which can bring Mox Amber online on turn 2 and grant you four mana on turn three. Plus, in green you have Llanowar elves which can help you ramp into Slimefoot, the Stowaway, Kumena, tyrant of Orazca, Rhona the Indomitable, and Rishkar, Peema Renegade on turn 2, again bringing the mox online if you haven't already done so with Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter. Hell, if playing green and white, you can drop the mox and an elf on turn one, drop Shanna and another elf on turn 2, and effectively ramp all the way to turn 6 on turn three! Now, say what you will about the playability of anyone of those specific legends, this means that in Standard the Mox should be at least as playable as Llanowar Elves in both geen and blue decks as well as green/white and green/black. You just need to play your cards right and maybe slot in some legends you wouldn't otherwise play with.
the issue is.... unrestricted mana drops that gives you 4 mana on turn 3 have never been that good anyway.
you're essentially swaping the mana cost of, for example Coalition Relic for all the inconvenience of needing some legend in play.
Btw I don't think Karn is going to be 30 usd when the set releases. Still not sure if he is going up or down, but he's the first walker in a long time that gives card advantage and defends himself while working in just about any color combination.
I don't think Karn will be 30 USD either by release. I'm thinking 35 to 40 unfortunately.
In Modern I think he slots in artifact mid to heavy decks like Lantern Control, Tron, Affinity and EldraziTron. In Standard I would assume the Vehicle decks would want access to him as well. Unfortunately he ain't going to be cheap on release.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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the issue is.... unrestricted mana drops that gives you 4 mana on turn 3 have never been that good anyway.
you're essentially swaping the mana cost of, for example Coalition Relic for all the inconvenience of needing some legend in play.
I think Mox Amber is simply not good at all.
I disagree. First of all, there are other two drop legends in Standard right now besides the three that leaked with the set, and its worth remembering that non-green decks don't often get ramp of any kind. So it has all the uses in blue, blue/white, black/green, and red decks that Courier7 pointed out upthread when combined with those legends. Also, the same ramp synergy I pointed out with Llanowar Elves and Shanna also applies to green/black decks running Hapatra. Four mana on turn three may not be very impressive, but six mana on turn three is absolutely bonkers, believe me. I predict that between Mox Amber and the reprinting of Llanowar Elves, green ramp is going to experience a renaissance in Standard.
Well, as a historical note this is exactly the same kind of conversation that happened when Mox Opal got revealed in standard back in Scars. Now it's a main stay in affinity and also used in Lantern Control. The other card no one knew what to do with on release was liliana of the veil. Basically, as a zero cost mana rock even if it doesn't find a home now it will find a home later, so there's basically no debate on whether it's worth picking up a set or not. My only thoughts are when to do it as I just bankrupted myself on Karns and am now in the negative by about 250 dollars this month due to my car requiring every single piece of maintenance work all at once. Damn 30,000 miles...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well, as a historical note this is exactly the same kind of conversation that happened when Mox Opal got revealed in standard back in Scars. Now it's a main stay in affinity and also used in Lantern Control. The other card no one knew what to do with on release was liliana of the veil. Basically, as a zero cost mana rock even if it doesn't find a home now it will find a home later, so there's basically no debate on whether it's worth picking up a set or not. My only thoughts are when to do it as I just bankrupted myself on Karns and am now in the negative by about 250 dollars this month due to my car requiring every single piece of maintenance work all at once. Damn 30,000 miles...
There was never , like absolutely never any discussion Mox Opal wouldnt be good in Affinity.
Its literally the "affinity mox" and works practically nowhere else (obvisiously).
artifacts as a type are much more abundant than legendary creatures and planeswalkers (and even then it taps only for that color, not all, so no color fixing).
Doesnt make it bad or unplayable, but this is by far a different kind of card and warrants that decks even change to make it playable for them.
Well, as a historical note this is exactly the same kind of conversation that happened when Mox Opal got revealed in standard back in Scars. Now it's a main stay in affinity and also used in Lantern Control. The other card no one knew what to do with on release was liliana of the veil. Basically, as a zero cost mana rock even if it doesn't find a home now it will find a home later, so there's basically no debate on whether it's worth picking up a set or not. My only thoughts are when to do it as I just bankrupted myself on Karns and am now in the negative by about 250 dollars this month due to my car requiring every single piece of maintenance work all at once. Damn 30,000 miles...
There was never , like absolutely never any discussion Mox Opal wouldnt be good in Affinity.
Its literally the "affinity mox" and works practically nowhere else (obvisiously).
artifacts as a type are much more abundant than legendary creatures and planeswalkers (and even then it taps only for that color, not all, so no color fixing).
Doesnt make it bad or unplayable, but this is by far a different kind of card and warrants that decks even change to make it playable for them.
I remember the conversations at my store going that way trying to figure out how to exactly use it. Albeit that was years ago and I was in a small university town. Online or elsewhere maybe it was different.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
"Cards have been under estimated in the past, so I'm right."
"Look at this Christmas-land hand!"
"Let me entirely ignore that multiple copies of a legend is built-in card disadvantage."
The mox is win-more when it works, because it only works if your opponent can't turn it off. Yes, it can be playued in some very specific decks, like mox opal, but that's it. It's not great, just ok.
"Let me entirely ignore that multiple copies of a legend is built-in card disadvantage."
That rule of thumb doesn't apply to Mox Amber, though. Why? Because it has a CMC of zero. You can chose to tap Mox Amber for mana, then play a second and sacrifice the tapped mox. If you have two of them in your hand you can do this twice in one turn. Or three times. So basically, because it is a free artifact you can slot a playset of them in your deck, and in effect its like having one mox amber and three lotus petals (conditional lotus petals, but still). No one ever turned their nose up at a lotus petal. Its free mana, the most powerful ability in the game. Even if its conditional on the deck being built a certain way, it will be played, even if that play is restricted in the long run to being a Commander staple.
The set looks pretty solid and fun for Standard, with maybe a few Modern cards as well. None of my major decks got any major additions, but some of my more janky, silly decks will get some fun cards for them... I like the new GGG 5/4 elf; a good fit for Stompy, even upgrading the Leatherback Baloth. Some of the sagas seem neat, the predominance of "legendary" cards... Pretty cool...
I like the Icy Manipulater in the new, slow Standard. It's really "cute" to see Thorn Elemental and Verdant Force making a comeback, although there are not many cards with a converted mana cost higher than 6 that I EVER play... The set looks pretty solid. It will be interesting to see what decks come to light, as people can literally start playtesting months in advance now, albeit with proxy cards... When Dominaria hits the ground/stores and goes legal, the metagame will be pre-developed, I bet, with people having discovered the best brews already... Could prove to be interesting... After most rotations, the "meta," especially in the shops, tends to be wide open and malleable for a week or few... I doubt that will be the case with the next rotation.
"Let me entirely ignore that multiple copies of a legend is built-in card disadvantage."
That rule of thumb doesn't apply to Mox Amber, though. Why? Because it has a CMC of zero. You can chose to tap Mox Amber for mana, then play a second and sacrifice the tapped mox. If you have two of them in your hand you can do this twice in one turn. Or three times. So basically, because it is a free artifact you can slot a playset of them in your deck, and in effect its like having one mox amber and three lotus petals (conditional lotus petals, but still). No one ever turned their nose up at a lotus petal. Its free mana, the most powerful ability in the game. Even if its conditional on the deck being built a certain way, it will be played, even if that play is restricted in the long run to being a Commander staple.
To be frank, it feels like they intentionally put three cards in the set that are for modern / legacy play, where as in the past few sets it's just a complete crapshoot. Opt and Spell Pierce were pretty much the better cards from Ixalan that I can think of off the top of my head. Merfolk got stuff I suppose for UG fish. I can't think of anything out of Amonkhet / HOU that was intentionally powerful outside of maybe As foretold. Heck, wizard tribal CounterSpell sounds good to me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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This is not a problem--all cards have drawbacks. Right now, everything is speculation and all speculative plans are equally valid. Only when reality arrives will we start ruling things out.
I do agree that at some point Mox Amber will find a place in a Modern deck. Mox Opal was in an artifacts matter set and fits nicely in affinity builds. I don't see Mox Amber being abused in Standard mainly because of the legendary rule. With over 100 more cards to come out, I'm curious to see how they will fill out the legendary theme and Dominaria throw-back.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It works really fairly well in UR storm , they use Baral, Chief of Compliance anyway and you get Storm+Mana , its pretty much a ritual.
To get a more critical number of legendary creatures, slam tiny Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and you are pretty much ready to rock.
That pretty much already works, its just not CRAZY powerful as Mox Opal is in Affinity.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
The only thing I don't like about him is that the opponent will choose the worst card for the turn and if one of the two cards is the game winner, you can't draw it until the next turn rolls around.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
at 1 it would be the best mana rock in many, many years. lol
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
While its not nearly as powerful in Standard as I think it will be in Modern (where there are more 1 CMC legends like Isamaru, Hound of Konda), there are several 2 CMC legends in the leak such as Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive, Naban, Dean of Iteration, and Shanna, Sisay's Legacy, all of which can bring Mox Amber online on turn 2 and grant you four mana on turn three. Plus, in green you have Llanowar elves which can help you ramp into Slimefoot, the Stowaway, Kumena, tyrant of Orazca, Rhona the Indomitable, and Rishkar, Peema Renegade on turn 2, again bringing the mox online if you haven't already done so with Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter. Hell, if playing green and white, you can drop the mox and an elf on turn one, play a plains on turn 2, drop Shanna and another elf using the now active mox, and effectively ramp all the way to turn 6 on turn three! Now, say what you will about the playability of any one of those specific legends, this means that in Standard the Mox should be at least as playable as Llanowar Elves in both geen and blue decks as well as green/white and green/black. You just need to play your cards right and maybe slot in some legends you wouldn't otherwise play with.
the issue is.... unrestricted mana drops that gives you 4 mana on turn 3 have never been that good anyway.
you're essentially swaping the mana cost of, for example Coalition Relic for all the inconvenience of needing some legend in play.
I think Mox Amber is simply not good at all.
I don't think Karn will be 30 USD either by release. I'm thinking 35 to 40 unfortunately.
In Modern I think he slots in artifact mid to heavy decks like Lantern Control, Tron, Affinity and EldraziTron. In Standard I would assume the Vehicle decks would want access to him as well. Unfortunately he ain't going to be cheap on release.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I disagree. First of all, there are other two drop legends in Standard right now besides the three that leaked with the set, and its worth remembering that non-green decks don't often get ramp of any kind. So it has all the uses in blue, blue/white, black/green, and red decks that Courier7 pointed out upthread when combined with those legends. Also, the same ramp synergy I pointed out with Llanowar Elves and Shanna also applies to green/black decks running Hapatra. Four mana on turn three may not be very impressive, but six mana on turn three is absolutely bonkers, believe me. I predict that between Mox Amber and the reprinting of Llanowar Elves, green ramp is going to experience a renaissance in Standard.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
There was never , like absolutely never any discussion Mox Opal wouldnt be good in Affinity.
Its literally the "affinity mox" and works practically nowhere else (obvisiously).
artifacts as a type are much more abundant than legendary creatures and planeswalkers (and even then it taps only for that color, not all, so no color fixing).
Doesnt make it bad or unplayable, but this is by far a different kind of card and warrants that decks even change to make it playable for them.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
I remember the conversations at my store going that way trying to figure out how to exactly use it. Albeit that was years ago and I was in a small university town. Online or elsewhere maybe it was different.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The mox is win-more when it works, because it only works if your opponent can't turn it off. Yes, it can be playued in some very specific decks, like mox opal, but that's it. It's not great, just ok.
i predict they may show us ezuri from duel decks just because the surprise is ruined and thats part of the new changes
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
That rule of thumb doesn't apply to Mox Amber, though. Why? Because it has a CMC of zero. You can chose to tap Mox Amber for mana, then play a second and sacrifice the tapped mox. If you have two of them in your hand you can do this twice in one turn. Or three times. So basically, because it is a free artifact you can slot a playset of them in your deck, and in effect its like having one mox amber and three lotus petals (conditional lotus petals, but still). No one ever turned their nose up at a lotus petal. Its free mana, the most powerful ability in the game. Even if its conditional on the deck being built a certain way, it will be played, even if that play is restricted in the long run to being a Commander staple.
I like the Icy Manipulater in the new, slow Standard. It's really "cute" to see Thorn Elemental and Verdant Force making a comeback, although there are not many cards with a converted mana cost higher than 6 that I EVER play... The set looks pretty solid. It will be interesting to see what decks come to light, as people can literally start playtesting months in advance now, albeit with proxy cards... When Dominaria hits the ground/stores and goes legal, the metagame will be pre-developed, I bet, with people having discovered the best brews already... Could prove to be interesting... After most rotations, the "meta," especially in the shops, tends to be wide open and malleable for a week or few... I doubt that will be the case with the next rotation.
To be frank, it feels like they intentionally put three cards in the set that are for modern / legacy play, where as in the past few sets it's just a complete crapshoot. Opt and Spell Pierce were pretty much the better cards from Ixalan that I can think of off the top of my head. Merfolk got stuff I suppose for UG fish. I can't think of anything out of Amonkhet / HOU that was intentionally powerful outside of maybe As foretold. Heck, wizard tribal CounterSpell sounds good to me.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!