What? Why? Who asked for this? Of all the cards in green that need a reprint. Of all the cards they could've chosen to represent Innistrad, arguably one of the most iconic sets in MtG.... They choose this?
Alright, your points are taken, I will drop it, I got it off my chest, I just hate how the pro-reprint people claim I'm acting on entitlement, bollocks, as said in my first response to this thread, it's a two way street friend, "pro reprinters" are therefore acting entitled to get cheap staples, nothing is stopping you from saving your money, and buying into a competitive deck, also, nothing is stopping you from jamming anything you want at a the kitchen table. It's called budgeting. Anyways appreciate the feedback, I will stop now as I know how vitriolic this topic gets. Apologies.
On topicish-is this set all reprints? Or will they be anything new or original?
Ah yes. The very first card I think of when I think of Innistrad. Nostalgia at its finest. Truly capturing the 25 year history of Magic.
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EDH Decks UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition) WRKalemne's Angels BRUG Yidris's Wild Party UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys UBRThe Pretender
Oh, and this card is ABSOLUTELY mythic. Until Shadows occurred, it was the ONLY card that had this kind of ability. It has massive toughness that is only really seen on eldrazi. It’s not legendary, but it represents a uniquely named item. It was a unique enough object that Shadows Over Innistrad made a corrupted version of it. This IS a great example of a mythic card.
We are not debating this card is not mythical in its concept, but rather why it was included in a set made for a 25th anniversary and focusing on nostalgia. I made a quick search in Gatherer to find out how many mythic cards have been printed to date. The result is around 830 cards. I could spend over an hour listing the vast number of candidates which are AMAZINGLY better than the Tree and NOSTALGIC at the same time. Up to the point before it got revealed, I was starting to lose interest in Masters 25 as more cards got spoiled, and when WOTC announced that Tree of Redemption would be present in the set, I felt like I got slapped in the face while at the same time being laughed at. This card deserves no spot in this kind of set, period. No one plays with it, no one cares about it either.
Oh, and this card is ABSOLUTELY mythic. Until Shadows occurred, it was the ONLY card that had this kind of ability. It has massive toughness that is only really seen on eldrazi. It’s not legendary, but it represents a uniquely named item. It was a unique enough object that Shadows Over Innistrad made a corrupted version of it. This IS a great example of a mythic card.
We are not debating this card is not mythical in its concept, but rather why it was included in a set made for a 25th anniversary and focusing on nostalgia. I made a quick search in Gatherer to find out how many mythic cards have been printed to date. The result is around 830 cards. I could spend over an hour listing the vast number of candidates which are AMAZINGLY better than the Tree and NOSTALGIC at the same time. Up to the point before it got revealed, I was starting to lose interest in Masters 25 as more cards got spoiled, and when WOTC announced that Tree of Redemption would be present in the set, I felt like I got slapped in the face while at the same time being laughed at. This card deserves no spot in this kind of set, period. No one plays with it, no one cares about it either.
I hear you and understand. I don’t really disagree - it shouldn’t be in THIS set.
My comment about its “mythicness”was related to the one directly above me which did make mention of it not feeling like a mythic.
This doesn’t deserve to be mythic. Its mythic factor died the moment it was originally released as a mythic in Innistrad.
Would it have hurt them to throw in Vengevine or maybe Lotus Cobra...and since we’re in a reprint-cards-in-a-set-recently-printed mood, why not Carnage Titan?
Aaaaaaand the truth is: this!
Someone please high five the set design team for messing up again...
Of course... Of course that's the reason behind it. God forbid they go all out for a set celebrating 25th anniversary, I mean we need some sort of backup to sell the next masters, right?
Maros answer just aggravates me more than it should. I appreciate the honesty, but that constraint issue he talks about really needs to **** off once and for all. Unless you're talking about the constraints Hasbro might enforce on you there's just no excuse, just do it for once instead of making up excuses, it's your damn game ffs!
Can't this, can't do that bs led to such awesome things as the reserved list, which is without a doubt, the grandest concept mtg could ever invent.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
Aaaaaaand the truth is: this!
Someone please high five the set design team for messing up again...
ugh. i'm so tired of seeing this as the go to answer for everything
if this is the answer, then your timelines and design team are out of wack and absolutely need to be adjusted, but its been proven repeatedly something is off kilter when it comes to design/r&d sooooo
Aaaaaaand the truth is: this!
Someone please high five the set design team for messing up again...
So, any guesses what green mythic might have been here but was audibled out? And why? Noble Hierarch? Scapeshift? Tarmogoyf? Primeval Titan? Berserk? Natural Order? Glimpse of Nature? Doubling Season?
Aaaaaaand the truth is: this!
Someone please high five the set design team for messing up again...
So, any guesses what green mythic might have been here but was audibled out? And why? Noble Hierarch? Scapeshift? Tarmogoyf? Primeval Titan? Berserk? Natural Order? Glimpse of Nature? Doubling Season?
I'm more curious about WHY it was replaced, whatever it was. We know that the Jace unban was a last minute decision, and it is very likely that booster box EV is a thing that they calculate carefully. Could they have replaced a money card with a junk mythic to balance out Jace's expected price spike? Is that something they would do?
Edit: Interesting comment from Blogatog:
formiko said: “Last minute replacement” usually means same color, rarity, and collector number. For A25 it could very well have meant same set as well, although Fiend Hunter was also from Innistrad. It was likely ‘goyf.
Same collector number wouldn't include Tarmogoyf (Timberwolf Pack at 190 means Tarmogoyf would have a different collector number than Tree of Perdition).
If the replacement was in fact so constrained that it had to be a card that would have been the same collector number... it would have had to fit between Timberwolf Pack and Utopia Sprawl alphabetically.
The only thing actually ever printed at Mythic that fits that gap... is Titania, Protector of Argoth.
If you consider possible rarity upshift candidates... Tooth and Nail really looks like the only one (I can't imagine they'd have printed and mythicified Troll Ascetic, Traverse the Ulvenwald, or Tireless Tracker... and then switched to Tree in a panic)
Tooth and Nail (TCG Mid $18) -> Tree of Redemption (ca $2) does seem like a EV issue. Numerous calculations have shown that the EV per box is currently > MSRP. Although... really it can't be more than a couple bucks per box. $15 in EV/15 mythics = $1 x 3 mythics per box. No WAY that's worth the "marketing shame" of shipping a 0/13 Tree at Mythic in a $10/pack set.
Did they have too many Mirrodin cards? Chalice of the Void a last second swap-in?
Can someone be kind enough to explain the "collector number" in this context? Obviously it doesn't mean what I think it means.
As an aside. I actually thought Jace was the last minute swap. It's the only one without a watermark.
Jace not having a watermark is likely because WoTC holds the card in such high regard that they anticipated their unbanning would change demand within the secondary market enough that they didn't want their precious new dumpster fire to have a less-than-desireable printing of the card. In this case, WoTC likely thinks that maintaining continuity across all JTMS printings will help this product sell better. heck, some people get bent over foils with prerelease date stamps vs non-stamped foils.. WoTC probably assumes the same bias may exist for a one-off printing of a JTMS with a watermark on it.
They're trying to protect their investment and tried so hard to launch this product into success that they made an exception for their unbanned card. In this context, WoTC held higher regard for secondary market continuity amongst JTMS printings than they did with maintaining continuity within a 25th year anniversary set itself and made an exception. WoTC cared more about the secondary market $$$ than continuity within their own set it seems. Jace is the exception to a great many things...
Or maybe its just a planeswalker template card with extended art underneath. Watermarking it would have changed all that up and wouldnt look good under all that text anyway
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Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
Can someone be kind enough to explain the "collector number" in this context? Obviously it doesn't mean what I think it means.
The cards in every set are numbered in order from 1 to N, where N is the number of cards in the set. This card is 191/249 as printed in the footer test of the card. Generally speaking, all the white cards come first, in alphabetical order, then all the blue cards in alphabetical order, then black then red then green then multicoloured then colourless-artifact then land.
If they had the set ready to go to print but then realized at the last minute ‘Holy crap, we can’t print Tooth and Nail at Mythic there’ - Tooth and Nail would already have been slotted at card #191 (because Timberwolf Pack was 190 and Utopia Sprawl was 192), so their replacement would also have to be a Green card, a mythic, and would have to have a name that alphabetically comes after Timberwolf and before Utopia. Tarmogoyf or Vengevine couldn’t have replaced card 191 (or been the actual original 191 that needed replacing) without messing with the alphabetization or numbering of other cards.
Can someone be kind enough to explain the "collector number" in this context? Obviously it doesn't mean what I think it means.
The cards in every set are numbered in order from 1 to N, where N is the number of cards in the set. This card is 191/249 as printed in the footer test of the card. Generally speaking, all the white cards come first, in alphabetical order, then all the blue cards in alphabetical order, then black then red then green then multicoloured then colourless-artifact then land.
If they had the set ready to go to print but then realized at the last minute ‘Holy crap, we can’t print Tooth and Nail at Mythic there’ - Tooth and Nail would already have been slotted at card #191 (because Timberwolf Pack was 190 and Utopia Sprawl was 192), so their replacement would also have to be a Green card, a mythic, and would have to have a name that alphabetically comes after Timberwolf and before Utopia. Tarmogoyf or Vengevine couldn’t have replaced card 191 (or been the actual original 191 that needed replacing) without messing with the alphabetization or numbering of other cards.
Oh.. gotcha. I was thinking it was something different.
Can someone be kind enough to explain the "collector number" in this context? Obviously it doesn't mean what I think it means.
As an aside. I actually thought Jace was the last minute swap. It's the only one without a watermark.
Jace not having a watermark is likely because WoTC holds the card in such high regard that they anticipated their unbanning would change demand within the secondary market enough that they didn't want their precious new dumpster fire to have a less-than-desireable printing of the card. In this case, WoTC likely thinks that maintaining continuity across all JTMS printings will help this product sell better. heck, some people get bent over foils with prerelease date stamps vs non-stamped foils.. WoTC probably assumes the same bias may exist for a one-off printing of a JTMS with a watermark on it.
They're trying to protect their investment and tried so hard to launch this product into success that they made an exception for their unbanned card. In this context, WoTC held higher regard for secondary market continuity amongst JTMS printings than they did with maintaining continuity within a 25th year anniversary set itself and made an exception. WoTC cared more about the secondary market $$$ than continuity within their own set it seems. Jace is the exception to a great many things...
They never put watermarks on planeswalkers. Look at the 'walkers from Scars block or RtR block.
This set is irredeemable
On topicish-is this set all reprints? Or will they be anything new or original?
All of the masters sets are all reprints. The only thing that might be new is the art. Every card, by name, has been printed before.
EDH Decks
UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life
RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them
WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition)
WRKalemne's Angels
BRUG Yidris's Wild Party
UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys
UBR The Pretender
I hear you and understand. I don’t really disagree - it shouldn’t be in THIS set.
My comment about its “mythicness”was related to the one directly above me which did make mention of it not feeling like a mythic.
Would it have hurt them to throw in Vengevine or maybe Lotus Cobra...and since we’re in a reprint-cards-in-a-set-recently-printed mood, why not Carnage Titan?
Hell I’d have settled for Thragtusk too!
Doubling Season would’ve been a nice surprise. I’m disappointed they didn’t reprint Primal Order...
‘buster
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Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
In all actuality Tree of Redemption makes perfect sense for this set when you think about it.
It's 25 years of Magic the Gathering, and they had to pick cards that made sense from a flavor perspective.
Like... how else are you going to set this garbage set on fire? Obviously with a tree for kindling.
Of course... Of course that's the reason behind it. God forbid they go all out for a set celebrating 25th anniversary, I mean we need some sort of backup to sell the next masters, right?
Maros answer just aggravates me more than it should. I appreciate the honesty, but that constraint issue he talks about really needs to **** off once and for all. Unless you're talking about the constraints Hasbro might enforce on you there's just no excuse, just do it for once instead of making up excuses, it's your damn game ffs!
Can't this, can't do that bs led to such awesome things as the reserved list, which is without a doubt, the grandest concept mtg could ever invent.
ugh. i'm so tired of seeing this as the go to answer for everything
if this is the answer, then your timelines and design team are out of wack and absolutely need to be adjusted, but its been proven repeatedly something is off kilter when it comes to design/r&d sooooo
So, any guesses what green mythic might have been here but was audibled out? And why? Noble Hierarch? Scapeshift? Tarmogoyf? Primeval Titan? Berserk? Natural Order? Glimpse of Nature? Doubling Season?
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Edit: Interesting comment from Blogatog:
formiko said: “Last minute replacement” usually means same color, rarity, and collector number. For A25 it could very well have meant same set as well, although Fiend Hunter was also from Innistrad. It was likely ‘goyf.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
If the replacement was in fact so constrained that it had to be a card that would have been the same collector number... it would have had to fit between Timberwolf Pack and Utopia Sprawl alphabetically.
The only thing actually ever printed at Mythic that fits that gap... is Titania, Protector of Argoth.
If you consider possible rarity upshift candidates... Tooth and Nail really looks like the only one (I can't imagine they'd have printed and mythicified Troll Ascetic, Traverse the Ulvenwald, or Tireless Tracker... and then switched to Tree in a panic)
Did they have too many Mirrodin cards? Chalice of the Void a last second swap-in?
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
As an aside. I actually thought Jace was the last minute swap. It's the only one without a watermark.
hahaha. Good one there. Will burn better because of the wood.
Anyway, a little seriously now. I wonder if WoTC would ever reveal the card that they removed to get the tree in?
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Jace not having a watermark is likely because WoTC holds the card in such high regard that they anticipated their unbanning would change demand within the secondary market enough that they didn't want their precious new dumpster fire to have a less-than-desireable printing of the card. In this case, WoTC likely thinks that maintaining continuity across all JTMS printings will help this product sell better. heck, some people get bent over foils with prerelease date stamps vs non-stamped foils.. WoTC probably assumes the same bias may exist for a one-off printing of a JTMS with a watermark on it.
They're trying to protect their investment and tried so hard to launch this product into success that they made an exception for their unbanned card. In this context, WoTC held higher regard for secondary market continuity amongst JTMS printings than they did with maintaining continuity within a 25th year anniversary set itself and made an exception. WoTC cared more about the secondary market $$$ than continuity within their own set it seems. Jace is the exception to a great many things...
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
The cards in every set are numbered in order from 1 to N, where N is the number of cards in the set. This card is 191/249 as printed in the footer test of the card. Generally speaking, all the white cards come first, in alphabetical order, then all the blue cards in alphabetical order, then black then red then green then multicoloured then colourless-artifact then land.
If they had the set ready to go to print but then realized at the last minute ‘Holy crap, we can’t print Tooth and Nail at Mythic there’ - Tooth and Nail would already have been slotted at card #191 (because Timberwolf Pack was 190 and Utopia Sprawl was 192), so their replacement would also have to be a Green card, a mythic, and would have to have a name that alphabetically comes after Timberwolf and before Utopia. Tarmogoyf or Vengevine couldn’t have replaced card 191 (or been the actual original 191 that needed replacing) without messing with the alphabetization or numbering of other cards.
They were wrong.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Oh.. gotcha. I was thinking it was something different.
#WONTWASTEMYTIME
#HAHAHA
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