I've heard some pretty polarizing opinions on this. Saffron Olive posted a video saying BBE is fine but JTMS just becaomes teh default control/midrange finisher and will push other midrange decks out\
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Others said BBE will break the format, because it creates gross 2 for 1s
I'm personally fine as paying 4 for jace can be risky and you could just lose to other 4 mana spells like scapeshift. There's just really good 4 mana spells, other than jace and BBE so they won't be too broken
You're assuming tapping out for 4 to play Jace isn't a choice against scapeshift. The control player can simply pass the turn with mana up and then use instant speed draw to shape/grow their hand until the other side has no option but to fire a scapeshift off and hope it sticks (which it wont). Jace is one of those cards that's fine when you're behind, it's great/fantastic when you're at parity, and it's usually game if you're already ahead. Jace + his environment is what's going to be an issue...Bolt/Helix/Anger/Remand/Mana Leak/supreme verdict/etc. all help set up a safe jace against decks that can kill him on the field. Unless I'm deploying 1-2 relevant threats a turn he's going to take over.
They basically said they saw the format and didn't see many situations where a jace would have changed the tide of the game in an alarming rate...but I disagree. It's like when Nahiri was breaking into modern and Jeskai Nahiri decks were bent hard on the combo because she was so hard to deal with. If they can resolve a nahiri to tick up to an emrakul with just spells to protect them, how much more so does a Jace help facilitate that plan in particular? Now I have to split my already thinned resources between your win con (nahiri) and your eventual soft lock (Jace). The format looked fine for jace because it wasn't being affected by him being playable.
BBE is fine, I honestly think it's okay for the format. Blightning has been nonperforming since the ban pretty much, and I think cards like kolaghan's command make but a stronger BR 3 drop anyway.
I'm happy with both of these unbannings. Jace, the Mind Sculptor never got an opportunity to prove how good it was so it'll be interesting to see how other cards/strategies stack up. I'm not ready to join the chorus of armchair doomsayers until I've seen it in action. Bloodbraid Elf is just a fun card and a great 4 drop for Gruul. I can't wait to Gruul smash the competition at FNM!
I'm happy with both of these unbannings. Jace, the Mind Sculptor never got an opportunity to prove how good it was so it'll be interesting to see how other cards/strategies stack up. I'm not ready to join the chorus of armchair doomsayers until I've seen it in action. Bloodbraid Elf is just a fun card and a great 4 drop for Gruul. I can't wait to Gruul smash the competition at FNM!
I agree, we never got to see JTMS, although he would hace been better on the inception of the format but the format is so diverse now he's fine. People are saying BBE might break jund again but traditional jund hasn't been good lately, so this might make it a good choice again. Jund/4c shadow decks might get gross though
Awwww I was already to finally get one for edh but now we're back to square one.
So he's the chase mythic of the set.
I'm feeling like they did this for sales of masters 25. I already had three boxes on order thanks to a good tax return but I'm not seeing preorder prices staying low once spoilers happen.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Whatever the effects of JTMS on the format, I'll gladly take complaining about JTMS over the complaints that Modern has too many decks that aren't blue control. The JTMS complaints are at least grounded in reality.
Kinda predictable given M25 packaging art, also so is the atomic fallout (heavy criticism). Oh well, Jace'll be cheaper now, foils probably will be too. Hopefully they're continuing the foil per pack that masters sets have been following recently.
After the terrible disaster that was iconic masters they had to do something, they lined that up perfectly, now jtms price has doubled. You can expect go to tier one decks now so his price will triple due to people wanting to play the 30% meta deck that contains him. Wizards will sell the rest of iconic masters out and now 25 will fly off the shelves. Welcome back to a 10 deck modern or less again. Goodbye to a modern that was the perfect meta, thanks wizards.
This makes me sad because my two copies of Jace, Architect of Thought will never be played again in any format
Well, you can play it in EDH
Don't cry.
I spent $160 USD for a playset of Jace, Architect of Thought, when he was Standard legal. But I am still happy for the JtMS unban announcement.
After the terrible disaster that was iconic masters they had to do something, they lined that up perfectly, now jtms price has doubled. You can expect go to tier one decks now so his price will triple due to people wanting to play the 30% meta deck that contains him. Wizards will sell the rest of iconic masters out and now 25 will fly off the shelves. Welcome back to a 10 deck modern or less again. Goodbye to a modern that was the perfect meta, thanks wizards.
We do not need to make the judgment so quick. Better to wait for couple of months and see if META is changed to a 10 decks format.
This makes me sad because my two copies of Jace, Architect of Thought will never be played again in any format
Well, you can play it in EDH
Don't cry.
I spent $160 USD for a playset of Jace, Architect of Thought, when he was Standard legal. But I am still happy for the JtMS unban announcement.
After the terrible disaster that was iconic masters they had to do something, they lined that up perfectly, now jtms price has doubled. You can expect go to tier one decks now so his price will triple due to people wanting to play the 30% meta deck that contains him. Wizards will sell the rest of iconic masters out and now 25 will fly off the shelves. Welcome back to a 10 deck modern or less again. Goodbye to a modern that was the perfect meta, thanks wizards.
We do not need to make the judgment so quick. Better to wait for couple of months and see if META is changed to a 10 decks format.
Also wizards pressed the undo button with Golgari Grave-Troll when it got out of hand after unbanning; I think you're on to something by waiting and seeing for the moment. People are hate posting atm lol.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
Although it's difficult to foresee it's impact, i'm excited for Bloodbraid Elfs return. It's such a great card and arguably cascades flagship card. Gruul mages rejoice and best of luck bringing it back into the fold. As for Jace? why the heck not let people play with what was once and still may be the OP planes walker of all time. Lot more answers to him nowadays in your color dejour even if they are not maindeckable.
After the terrible disaster that was iconic masters they had to do something, they lined that up perfectly, now jtms price has doubled. You can expect go to tier one decks now so his price will triple due to people wanting to play the 30% meta deck that contains him. Wizards will sell the rest of iconic masters out and now 25 will fly off the shelves. Welcome back to a 10 deck modern or less again. Goodbye to a modern that was the perfect meta, thanks wizards.
What "30% meta deck" will contain Jace? Jace is good, but he's not that good. He's not going to dominate the format.
What Jace might do, however, is push out the non-Blue midrange/control decks, most of which were already pushed mostly out of the format (most particularly Jund, but BBE might bring it back). However, worries about Jace taking over the format to 30% are downright silly.
Look for Jace to get ban again in about 6 months. IMO wizards is just looking for a cheap way to make a quick profit. I’m pretty sure they’ll keep JTMS unbanned until Masters 25 loses some hype and then they’ll just ban him again. Such a poor decision on their part and extremely ridiculous!!!!
Look for Jace to get ban again in about 6 months. IMO wizards is just looking for a cheap way to make a quick profit. I’m pretty sure they’ll keep JTMS unbanned until Masters 25 loses some hype and then they’ll just ban him again. Such a poor decision on their part and extremely ridiculous!!!!
I said the same thing earlier; It's the Yugioh effect, once the product dips in sales, ban cards to stimulate the sell of newer products.
Im somewhat biased, ill admit that, but im agreeing with some of t he comments where most decks win by or near turn 3. I can see where the hate is coming from, and it will be an unhealthy state for a while, then people will either drop it out of their decks, or will find ways around it. if not, there is a cheap possible counter in the form of Jace's defeat as a side board option.
This honestly does feel like a low-blow Yugioh move. I left that trash game because of this BS.
I was really counting on Jace being affordable enough for me to get my last copy for Commander. Now as usual, Commander players are screwed out of this iconic card because of Modern, and they think a product at $10 a pack, with a horrible gamble ratio of majority garbage bulk rares is going to offset this insane demand they've created?
It makes me so upset to have my Mind Sculptor stolen from me, only to have WOTC inflate its price before a reprint set they've promised would make it more accessible. Seems every way I turn, this card is going to be a nightmare. And here I thought it would finally be reasonable. But it's a mythic, and I'd have to hemorrhage out cash on bulk rares before I have any hope of seeing it anywhere.
Honestly, I'm getting sick of being burned by card games. Making it a mythic was NEVER going to solve the demand problem when it's tripled in price from one announcement. Good luck to us Commander folks I guess, since we'll never see the light of damn day in this game with anything.
Holy Moly what a load of crybabies.....the sky is falling.
He wont warp the format and you shouldve gotten one over the last few months when it was a reasonable cost if it was so important instead of whining about being priced out of a card. Everyone has been burned and everyone has had a windfall somewhere along the line.
Just deal people, calm down, we will survive
Boxes still at $190.......
Where are more leaks.......gotta get a whiff of a couple cards
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Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
M25 is a limited print run, and iirc those have almost always sold out. If M25 was gonna sell out regardless, unbanning JtmS won't actually increase the overall sales (for WotC) of the product. Better for the LGSs though.
I'm just hoping this doesn't turn into a "Jace or Bust" thing with Masters 25. I ended up scrapping together enough money for a third box of M25 before the announcement and got the order up, then saw this entire unban announcement unfold.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
BBE, I don't mind. I mean, a 4 mana 2 for 1. While not completely useless, it's not a massive bomb either. Bloodbraiding into Decay or Bolt is going to be rewarding most of the time, but it's not game breaking.
You're assuming tapping out for 4 to play Jace isn't a choice against scapeshift. The control player can simply pass the turn with mana up and then use instant speed draw to shape/grow their hand until the other side has no option but to fire a scapeshift off and hope it sticks (which it wont). Jace is one of those cards that's fine when you're behind, it's great/fantastic when you're at parity, and it's usually game if you're already ahead. Jace + his environment is what's going to be an issue...Bolt/Helix/Anger/Remand/Mana Leak/supreme verdict/etc. all help set up a safe jace against decks that can kill him on the field. Unless I'm deploying 1-2 relevant threats a turn he's going to take over.
They basically said they saw the format and didn't see many situations where a jace would have changed the tide of the game in an alarming rate...but I disagree. It's like when Nahiri was breaking into modern and Jeskai Nahiri decks were bent hard on the combo because she was so hard to deal with. If they can resolve a nahiri to tick up to an emrakul with just spells to protect them, how much more so does a Jace help facilitate that plan in particular? Now I have to split my already thinned resources between your win con (nahiri) and your eventual soft lock (Jace). The format looked fine for jace because it wasn't being affected by him being playable.
BBE is fine, I honestly think it's okay for the format. Blightning has been nonperforming since the ban pretty much, and I think cards like kolaghan's command make but a stronger BR 3 drop anyway.
I agree, we never got to see JTMS, although he would hace been better on the inception of the format but the format is so diverse now he's fine. People are saying BBE might break jund again but traditional jund hasn't been good lately, so this might make it a good choice again. Jund/4c shadow decks might get gross though
Awwww I was already to finally get one for edh but now we're back to square one.
So he's the chase mythic of the set.
I'm feeling like they did this for sales of masters 25. I already had three boxes on order thanks to a good tax return but I'm not seeing preorder prices staying low once spoilers happen.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Well, you can play it in EDH
Don't cry.
I spent $160 USD for a playset of Jace, Architect of Thought, when he was Standard legal. But I am still happy for the JtMS unban announcement.
We do not need to make the judgment so quick. Better to wait for couple of months and see if META is changed to a 10 decks format.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
I'm all about Islands...so, I'm good. :]
Spirits
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
What Jace might do, however, is push out the non-Blue midrange/control decks, most of which were already pushed mostly out of the format (most particularly Jund, but BBE might bring it back). However, worries about Jace taking over the format to 30% are downright silly.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
I was really counting on Jace being affordable enough for me to get my last copy for Commander. Now as usual, Commander players are screwed out of this iconic card because of Modern, and they think a product at $10 a pack, with a horrible gamble ratio of majority garbage bulk rares is going to offset this insane demand they've created?
It makes me so upset to have my Mind Sculptor stolen from me, only to have WOTC inflate its price before a reprint set they've promised would make it more accessible. Seems every way I turn, this card is going to be a nightmare. And here I thought it would finally be reasonable. But it's a mythic, and I'd have to hemorrhage out cash on bulk rares before I have any hope of seeing it anywhere.
Honestly, I'm getting sick of being burned by card games. Making it a mythic was NEVER going to solve the demand problem when it's tripled in price from one announcement. Good luck to us Commander folks I guess, since we'll never see the light of damn day in this game with anything.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
He wont warp the format and you shouldve gotten one over the last few months when it was a reasonable cost if it was so important instead of whining about being priced out of a card. Everyone has been burned and everyone has had a windfall somewhere along the line.
Just deal people, calm down, we will survive
Boxes still at $190.......
Where are more leaks.......gotta get a whiff of a couple cards
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You gotta think bigger. BBE -> Liliana. BBE -> Kolaghan's Command.
David Ochoa: "Mono-bacon!..."
The top decks of Humans, Burn, Affinity, Tron, and Titanshift could care less about Jace being played against them. GDS may or may not care too much.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles