I've been thinking about this and maybe our opinion of JTMS is skewed, because the last time we saw him (not in Legacy/Vintage) was Standard where he dominated in a deck that was full of cards that are still playable in at least one of the eternal formats: (Celestial Colonnade, Gideon Jura, Mana Leak, Preordain, Stoneforge Mystic, Batterskull, Fetch lands, Swords, etc etc. That's basically a Modern deck right there going against Standard decks of the era.
Not to mention like others have said there plenty of fast aggro and combo decks that will nullify him. Not to mention T3 Karn Liberated >>> T4+ JTMS. Idk maybe he won't be as bad as we all assume, though I could see him killing midrange strategies more. Traditional/shadowless BGx decks seems to be on a bit of a decline already. Vintage and Legacy have larger card pools, but it seems like Modern has a much higher card diversity.
It will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out, especially considering Modern was arguably at its best leading up to this B&R announcement.
Also, you cannot have it both ways. If they unbanned Jace with no reprint then people will say there was not enough supply and the cost of entry barrier would be unfair.
Reprinted at mytic in a Masters set? Oh yes, that'll sure balance the price out to a reasonable level. /sarcasm
Wizards is generating hype for Modern with the first "real" Modern PT in a long time (the last one was PT "Oops we printed too many Eldrazi") and then multiple high-profile unbannings, all in the month leading up to the release of their most hyped Masters set -- the "this one is nothing but the best cards from Magic's history you guys, for real this time" Masters set. It's really hard to see this as anything but another way to boost sluggish Masters sales after releasing 3 sets within 12 months.
Also, you cannot have it both ways. If they unbanned Jace with no reprint then people will say there was not enough supply and the cost of entry barrier would be unfair.
Reprinted at mytic in a Masters set? Oh yes, that'll sure balance the price out to a reasonable level. /sarcasm
Wizards is generating hype for Modern with the first "real" Modern PT in a long time (the last one was PT "Oops we printed too many Eldrazi") and then multiple high-profile unbannings, all in the month leading up to the release of their most hyped Masters set -- the "this one is nothing but the best cards from Magic's history you guys, for real this time" Masters set. It's really hard to see this as anything but another way to boost sluggish Masters sales after releasing 3 sets within 12 months.
Then why didn't they unban it during eternal masters?
Bottom line is that Modern could use some more Midrange and control strategies with more interaction. This could and should have a net positive effect. As for cost, hey, it took me a full year, and finally I got my Lilies(in 3 different languages lol). I love Modern, and if this spurs new deck archetypes great.
Then why didn't they unban it during eternal masters?
Because, as I said, Eternal Masters wasn't preceded by the first good Modern Pro Tour in a long time. Also Eternal Masters was released before consumer fatigue had set in, as it was the first Masters set not explicitly targeted at Modern and thus was more than capable of selling itself on it's own merits.
Then why didn't they unban it during eternal masters?
Because, as I said, Eternal Masters wasn't preceded by the first good Modern Pro Tour in a long time. Also Eternal Masters was released before consume fatigue had set in, as it was the first Masters set not explicitly targeted at Modern and thus was more than capable of selling itself on it's own merits.
I would disagree with that. 100%.
Although M25 may have factored in to the decision (reprint would make it more accessible for unbanning)
JTMS has been on the list of potential unbans for years. Every single modern ban announcement JTMS has been speculated.
Also - you can't unban BBE without JTMS. Those two cards are very much yin-and-yang.
I don't get the complaints about Jace being in Masters 25 and that somehow meaning they are using this unban to sell packs. They reprinted him FTV 20 and did not unban him. They reprinted him in EMA and did not unban him. I would argue that since they said in the article they talk about Jace every so often, they have been increasing supply of Jace for this reason. Are people suggesting that they can never unban a card in Modern because it is being printed in a set to generate more supply?
Reprinting JTMS to meet supply caused by a well-founded unban that would happen anyway to make a format better? Good. Unbanning JTMS with the main intention being to make a reprint set sell, not make a format better? Not good. Which one is this?
I dunno, we don't have access to that information, so whichever one fits your bias, I guess.
We will learn the real answer in about 6 months, if Jace proves fine in the format or if Wizards have to go through the humiliation of rebanning him
And if Jace does get rebanned within the next year they will never live down the fact that they messed up Modern just to try a push a few more packs of Masters 25
Bloodbraid will be reasonable irrelevant and just make up decks (like Temur) that wouldnt stand a chance right now anyway.
Jace is as annoying as it gets, and i call it, it will get banned again like 1 year from now, its not legal in modern anymore.
Its not even for the sake of being downright OP , its just an incredible frustrating card to play against and it invalidates so much cards (its existence just makes the delve creatures worse, and all other cards that do not cost 1-2 mana).
Anyway, its a quick and dirty money grab, sell some packs for the card that is doomed to jump in price high and thats as far as WotC thinks.
I don't get the complaints about Jace being in Masters 25 and that somehow meaning they are using this unban to sell packs. They reprinted him FTV 20 and did not unban him. They reprinted him in EMA and did not unban him. I would argue that since they said in the article they talk about Jace every so often, they have been increasing supply of Jace for this reason. Are people suggesting that they can never unban a card in Modern because it is being printed in a set to generate more supply?
Reprinting JTMS to meet supply caused by a well-founded unban that would happen anyway to make a format better? Good. Unbanning JTMS with the main intention being to make a reprint set sell, not make a format better? Not good. Which one is this?
I dunno, we don't have access to that information, so whichever one fits your bias, I guess.
We will learn the real answer in about 6 months, if Jace proves fine in the format or if Wizards have to go through the humiliation of rebanning him
And if Jace does get rebanned within the next year they will never live down the fact that they messed up Modern just to try a push a few more packs of Masters 25
Jace is fine. Look at the top decks of both the PT and the GP. Most of those decks do not care about Jace.
JTMS has been on the list of potential unbans for years. Every single modern ban announcement JTMS has been speculated.
Isn't that kind of the point? JtMS gets talked about a lot but they've never unbanned him. We just had a good, maybe even great, Modern PT that fully showcased how healthy and diverse the format is. As far as I could tell, literally every pro player said something along the lines of "Modern is great right now don't change anything" after the PT.
Wizards happens to pick right now to unban one of the most infamous cards in the history of the game? After revealing it as a premier card of their fancy new Masters set? How extremely unlikely.
JTMS has been on the list of potential unbans for years. Every single modern ban announcement JTMS has been speculated.
Isn't that kind of the point? JtMS gets talked about a lot but they've never unbanned him. We just had a good, maybe even great, Modern PT that fully showcased how healthy and diverse the format is. As far as I could tell, literally every pro player said something along the lines of "Modern is great right now don't change anything" after the PT.
Wizards happens to pick right now to unban one of the most infamous cards in the history of the game? After revealing it as a premier card of their fancy new Masters set? How extremely unlikely.
Not that unlikely. We knew something was coming off today. Something was getting unbanned. The question was simply what.
Also - control decks under-performed at both the GP and the PT (in terms of conversion rates).
In fact one of the biggest takeaways from the PT was control decks struggled to convert a game into a win.
UWx decks had higher unintentional draw rates than lantern control... that's saying something.
I don't get the complaints about Jace being in Masters 25 and that somehow meaning they are using this unban to sell packs. They reprinted him FTV 20 and did not unban him. They reprinted him in EMA and did not unban him. I would argue that since they said in the article they talk about Jace every so often, they have been increasing supply of Jace for this reason. Are people suggesting that they can never unban a card in Modern because it is being printed in a set to generate more supply?
Reprinting JTMS to meet supply caused by a well-founded unban that would happen anyway to make a format better? Good. Unbanning JTMS with the main intention being to make a reprint set sell, not make a format better? Not good. Which one is this?
I dunno, we don't have access to that information, so whichever one fits your bias, I guess.
We will learn the real answer in about 6 months, if Jace proves fine in the format or if Wizards have to go through the humiliation of rebanning him
And if Jace does get rebanned within the next year they will never live down the fact that they messed up Modern just to try a push a few more packs of Masters 25
Jace is fine. Look at the top decks of both the PT and the GP. Most of those decks do not care about Jace.
The point I'm trying to make here is a response to people saying that the main reason WotC is unbanning Jace is to sell M25 boosters, irrespective of the impact this will have on the game. The point is this: we have no way of knowing that, but some people are jumping to conclusions based on whether their bias is to generally trust or generally distrust WotC. The arguments about whether this is a good idea for the game or not are a different argument (and the right argument to be having, since we can speculate on that based using real information)
In fact, none of the four most played archetypes (Humans, Affinity, Burn, and Tron) are likely to adopt either Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Bloodbraid Elf.
Give it time. The pros and community will eventually find a way to make them work and break Modern again.
Tron is the only possible deck that would implement Jace (mono-U tron).
But that's also a deck that is not even tier 2. So it getting something new wouldn't be a bad thing.
In fact, none of the four most played archetypes (Humans, Affinity, Burn, and Tron) are likely to adopt either Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Bloodbraid Elf.
Give it time. The pros and community will eventually find a way to make them work and break Modern again.
Modern was broken 1 time, and that was due to Wizards, not anything 'pros' proved.
Not that unlikely. We knew something was coming off today. Something was getting unbanned.
Ah yes. How strange that WotC heavily hinted toward a significant unbanning ahead of time. It's like they were specifically trying to get people to pay attention to this B&R announcement. Why, it's almost as if they were trying to generate some hype.
I'm actually kind of laughing a bit at all the doomsaying and end is naying over jace coming back. Jeskai will play him as a finisher, sure, and he might see some sideboard play in other decks, but honestly Jace isn't that terrifying in the face of humans, burn, storm, tron, et al. Death's shadow won't want to add a four drop to their very stream lined deck. The format is actively hostile to landing a jace and riding him to victory. He's not going to be rebanned in a half a month or so, because outside of jeskai and the random, bad, tapout control shells, no deck wants him in the main deck.
I for one, am happy that one of magic's most iconic planeswalkers is coming off of the banlist, and is getting another reprint to make it more accessible (not much but a little). Just wait a bit and jace will go back to somewhat sane prices.
I for one, am happy that one of magic's most iconic planeswalkers is coming off of the banlist, and is getting another reprint to make it more accessible (not much but a little). Just wait a bit and jace will go back to somewhat sane prices.
Printing him as a mythic in a 10 dollar set is not going to make him accessible to the vast majority of players. In fact the increased availability will be completely negated by the sudden spike in interest in the card.
Not that unlikely. We knew something was coming off today. Something was getting unbanned.
Ah yes. How strange that WotC heavily hinted toward a significant unbanning ahead of time. It's like they were specifically trying to get people to pay attention to this B&R announcement. Why, it's almost as if they were trying to generate some hype.
Put down the tin-foil hat.
Even before the announcement it was rumored they would unban something. The last modern unban announcement had zero impact on the format.
It was reprinted in Eternal Masters and is getting another printing... If you did not pick them up when they dropped in price or sold them and got your money already then that is on you. I had 4 originals and never unloaded them. Cards get banned and then unbanned later...happens all the time so get over it. Be happy they are reprinting it again and it will drop with 25 coming soon.
Well, since the impossible just happened I've got a bet that I'm going to have to make good on. May pepto bismol save me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Put down the tin-foil hat.
Even before the announcement it was rumored they would unban something.
It was "rumored" because WotC literally told us it was going to happen:
Quote from B&R Announcement Oct. 17th »
In the course of discussing options for this announcement, we did discuss unbanning in Modern. However, given the current healthy state of the format and the upcoming Modern Pro Tour, we plan to wait for the results of Pro Tour Rivals of Ixalan to evaluate any potential changes for the format. We anticipate making an announcement in February after the results from that tournament come in.
It's almost like they knew ahead of time that they wanted to unban JtMS in advance of Masters 25, after checking the PT to make sure U decks weren't already breaking the format.
In the course of discussing options for this announcement, we did discuss unbanning in Modern. However, given the current healthy state of the format and the upcoming Modern Pro Tour, we plan to wait for the results of Pro Tour Rivals of Ixalan to evaluate any potential changes for the format. We anticipate making an announcement in February after the results from that tournament come in.
It's almost like they knew ahead of time that they wanted to unban JtMS in advance of Masters 25, after checking the PT to make sure U decks weren't already breaking the format.
I've heard some pretty polarizing opinions on this. Saffron Olive posted a video saying BBE is fine but JTMS just becaomes teh default control/midrange finisher and will push other midrange decks out\
\
Others said BBE will break the format, because it creates gross 2 for 1s
I'm personally fine as paying 4 for jace can be risky and you could just lose to other 4 mana spells like scapeshift. There's just really good 4 mana spells, other than jace and BBE so they won't be too broken
Not to mention like others have said there plenty of fast aggro and combo decks that will nullify him. Not to mention T3 Karn Liberated >>> T4+ JTMS. Idk maybe he won't be as bad as we all assume, though I could see him killing midrange strategies more. Traditional/shadowless BGx decks seems to be on a bit of a decline already. Vintage and Legacy have larger card pools, but it seems like Modern has a much higher card diversity.
It will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out, especially considering Modern was arguably at its best leading up to this B&R announcement.
Wizards is generating hype for Modern with the first "real" Modern PT in a long time (the last one was PT "Oops we printed too many Eldrazi") and then multiple high-profile unbannings, all in the month leading up to the release of their most hyped Masters set -- the "this one is nothing but the best cards from Magic's history you guys, for real this time" Masters set. It's really hard to see this as anything but another way to boost sluggish Masters sales after releasing 3 sets within 12 months.
Then why didn't they unban it during eternal masters?
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I would disagree with that. 100%.
Although M25 may have factored in to the decision (reprint would make it more accessible for unbanning)
JTMS has been on the list of potential unbans for years. Every single modern ban announcement JTMS has been speculated.
Also - you can't unban BBE without JTMS. Those two cards are very much yin-and-yang.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
We will learn the real answer in about 6 months, if Jace proves fine in the format or if Wizards have to go through the humiliation of rebanning him
And if Jace does get rebanned within the next year they will never live down the fact that they messed up Modern just to try a push a few more packs of Masters 25
Jace is as annoying as it gets, and i call it, it will get banned again like 1 year from now, its not legal in modern anymore.
Its not even for the sake of being downright OP , its just an incredible frustrating card to play against and it invalidates so much cards (its existence just makes the delve creatures worse, and all other cards that do not cost 1-2 mana).
Anyway, its a quick and dirty money grab, sell some packs for the card that is doomed to jump in price high and thats as far as WotC thinks.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Jace is fine. Look at the top decks of both the PT and the GP. Most of those decks do not care about Jace.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Wizards happens to pick right now to unban one of the most infamous cards in the history of the game? After revealing it as a premier card of their fancy new Masters set? How extremely unlikely.
Not that unlikely. We knew something was coming off today. Something was getting unbanned. The question was simply what.
Also - control decks under-performed at both the GP and the PT (in terms of conversion rates).
In fact one of the biggest takeaways from the PT was control decks struggled to convert a game into a win.
UWx decks had higher unintentional draw rates than lantern control... that's saying something.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
The point I'm trying to make here is a response to people saying that the main reason WotC is unbanning Jace is to sell M25 boosters, irrespective of the impact this will have on the game. The point is this: we have no way of knowing that, but some people are jumping to conclusions based on whether their bias is to generally trust or generally distrust WotC. The arguments about whether this is a good idea for the game or not are a different argument (and the right argument to be having, since we can speculate on that based using real information)
Give it time. The pros and community will eventually find a way to make them work and break Modern again.
But that's also a deck that is not even tier 2. So it getting something new wouldn't be a bad thing.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Modern was broken 1 time, and that was due to Wizards, not anything 'pros' proved.
Spirits
I for one, am happy that one of magic's most iconic planeswalkers is coming off of the banlist, and is getting another reprint to make it more accessible (not much but a little). Just wait a bit and jace will go back to somewhat sane prices.
Printing him as a mythic in a 10 dollar set is not going to make him accessible to the vast majority of players. In fact the increased availability will be completely negated by the sudden spike in interest in the card.
Put down the tin-foil hat.
Even before the announcement it was rumored they would unban something. The last modern unban announcement had zero impact on the format.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I am sure that was their exact line of reasoning.
\
Others said BBE will break the format, because it creates gross 2 for 1s
I'm personally fine as paying 4 for jace can be risky and you could just lose to other 4 mana spells like scapeshift. There's just really good 4 mana spells, other than jace and BBE so they won't be too broken