Also, look at JTMS' price movement for the last few days and tell me that some people don't get inside info.
To be fair though, JTMS and Bloodbraid have been speculation targets for unbanning for a while now. They always see some movement in the days prior to B&R announcements.
People have been talking about that for many months, but the price movement started very suddenly and sharply a few days ago, as if by the flick of a switch. You can see from the price curve exactly when the info was passed on or leaked. Compare it to the SFM speculation movement from some time ago and observe the difference.
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I'm gonna go against the grain and predict that JTMS will not break the format at all. In fact, it's only going to see play as a 1-2 of in a couple decks and most of those are underdog decks right now.
+1
After the eldrazi winter, the linear strat decks were everywhere, usually winning before turn 4. Imo that would be the best time to unban jtms, giving the blue control decks at the time a chance to win if they could survive. Right now it's a bit more problematic, since there are already some U control decks (and lantern control), but i'm still expecting the format to be balanced. Maybe i'm wrong, but i had the same opinion of AV and when it was unbanned, everyone was doomsaying that modern would die because of it.
I'm gonna go against the grain and predict that JTMS will not break the format at all. In fact, it's only going to see play as a 1-2 of in a couple decks and most of those are underdog decks right now.
+1
After the eldrazi winter, the linear strat decks were everywhere, usually winning before turn 4. Imo that would be the best time to unban jtms, giving the blue control decks at the time a chance to win if they could survive. Right now it's a bit more problematic, since there are already some U control decks (and lantern control), but i'm still expecting the format to be balanced. Maybe i'm wrong, but i had the same opinion of AV and when it was unbanned, everyone was doomsaying that modern would die because of it.
This indeed.
You can be dead to board turn 3 easily, and just yesterday we saw Grishoalbrand win on Turn 2 on Twitch.
Jace is a new contender at the top of the tournament deck lists, but he's just another Good card, that will amp up an archetype (Control) that is struggling in the face of truly over a dozen linear/aggro/combo decks.
Also, look at JTMS' price movement for the last few days and tell me that some people don't get inside info.
To be fair though, JTMS and Bloodbraid have been speculation targets for unbanning for a while now. They always see some movement in the days prior to B&R announcements.
People have been talking about that for many months, but the price movement started very suddenly and sharply a few days ago, as if by the flick of a switch. You can see from the price curve exactly when the info was passed on or leaked. Compare it to the SFM speculation movement from some time ago and observe the difference.
Like I said before: a few days ago a fake MTGO screen shot with JTMS getting unbanned surfaced.
Spike happened around that time.
They unbanned JtMS and not SFM which makes me very unhappy. This card is not just really powerful but wicked unfun to play against, not excited to lose to this guy. Time to play more Pauper.
Also this unbanning right before Masters 25 is mega sketchy, not a good move Wizards.
I don't get the complaints about Jace being in Masters 25 and that somehow meaning they are using this unban to sell packs. They reprinted him FTV 20 and did not unban him. They reprinted him in EMA and did not unban him. I would argue that since they said in the article they talk about Jace every so often, they have been increasing supply of Jace for this reason. Are people suggesting that they can never unban a card in Modern because it is being printed in a set to generate more supply? What if they decided to unban Stoneforge Mystic in 2 years. Their discussions go on and they realize it can be done and as part of that, they will try seeding supplemental sets to increase supply. Is the same argument going to apply that the unban is "just" a way to sell packs?
They said they found that a 4 drop is not often being played unless it wins games. Jace does not win the game and can be dealt with (how well he can be dealt with remains to be seen). BBE is one way so that is nice, but Modern is a fairly aggressive format. He will make an impact to be sure, but it will not be the end of Modern.
How about we actually let the card into the format and see what happens? It is possible we see a situation where Jace is deemed to be too powerful. And they need to reban him. It could happen and I don't fault people for bringing that possibility to light. However, I feel this is a much better line to take in the long run than just sitting back and saying "the format looks good; lets not mess with it".
They unbanned JtMS and not SFM which makes me very unhappy. This card is not just really powerful but wicked unfun to play against, not excited to lose to this guy. Time to play more Pauper.
Also this unbanning right before Masters 25 is mega sketchy, not a good move Wizards.
\
Eh. BBE + JTMS have been on the "probable" list for years.
Wizards is obviously more interested in profit then the health of a format they make very little money on. They are a business, this is natural.
Wizards profits are from players buying sealed products of NEW released sets. Wizards doesn't make a penny off the secondary market, so why is it any surprise that they aren't playing their best hand, to sell the most sealed product of M25? The health of Modern, Legacy, and Vintage does not affect their profits, so why should they care about it?
I must confess... I am surprised people are talking about the unban like the sky is falling.
1) BBE + JTMS has been on the "probable" unban list for a very long time. It was always speculated that these cards were a package deal (you couldn't unban one without unbanning the other).
2) M25 is not the reason why JTMS is unbanned. If it was: why didn't they unban it during eternal masters? Or any other time they reprinted JTMS?
3) JTMS is not great vs fast linear decks. I don't think it will skew the meta as much as people are fearing. Control decks under-performed at the PT (in terms of conversion rates).
I don't get the complaints about Jace being in Masters 25 and that somehow meaning they are using this unban to sell packs. They reprinted him FTV 20 and did not unban him. They reprinted him in EMA and did not unban him. I would argue that since they said in the article they talk about Jace every so often, they have been increasing supply of Jace for this reason. Are people suggesting that they can never unban a card in Modern because it is being printed in a set to generate more supply?
Reprinting JTMS to meet supply caused by a well-founded unban that would happen anyway to make a format better? Good. Unbanning JTMS with the main intention being to make a reprint set sell, not make a format better? Not good. Which one is this?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
I don't get the complaints about Jace being in Masters 25 and that somehow meaning they are using this unban to sell packs. They reprinted him FTV 20 and did not unban him. They reprinted him in EMA and did not unban him. I would argue that since they said in the article they talk about Jace every so often, they have been increasing supply of Jace for this reason. Are people suggesting that they can never unban a card in Modern because it is being printed in a set to generate more supply?
Reprinting JTMS to meet supply caused by a well-founded unban that would happen anyway? Good. Unbanning JTMS with the main intention being to make a reprint set sell? Not good. Which one is this?
I am fairly certain they did not unban him just to sell M25.
3) JTMS is not great vs fast linear decks. I don't think it will skew the meta as much as people are fearing. Control decks under-performed at the PT (in terms of conversion rates).
This isn't the problem. He is great against everything else so he is just further incentive to play those fast decks. If you aren't one of those fast decks, you either better have jace, or just concede you are going to lose to jace and try to be good against the fast linear decks looking to go under him.
Considering they had these cards ready to print months ago, that means these unbannings were happening basically no matter what in order to help sell this product.
And even if that's an incorrect take, it feels wrong that it doesn't take much to come to that conclusion.
When Worldwake came out, they didn't ban Jace till the end of rotation because Worldwake was selling too well, so yeah, while balancing allow Jace to return, it probably has more to do with the sells.
I don't think either of these are good. The reason Bloodbraid Elf was banned was it gives way too much value that you really can't stop and Jace 2.0 is the same except even worse. I fully understand control needs a boost in the format, but if you don't stop Jace it tends to take control of a game faster than other control cards do.
Recently MTGGoldfish had a match between an unbanned Jund and an unbanned U/W Control and Jace took over whatever game he was in or the reason you were able to pull ahead.
Yes, they were on the "probable list" for some time, but I can't see anyone is going to like BBE into things like Abrupt Decay, Fatal Push, or Lightning Bolt, let alone a myriad of other things. People can't have forgotten the amount of value cascade has, right?
Considering they had these cards ready to print months ago, that means these unbannings were happening basically no matter what in order to help sell this product.
And even if that's an incorrect take, it feels wrong that it doesn't take much to come to that conclusion.
When Worldwake came out, they didn't ban Jace till the end of rotation because Worldwake was selling too well, so yeah, while balancing allow Jace to return, it probably has more to do with the sells.
They never banned it until the end of rotation for packs... They didn't ban it until the end of rotation because it wasn't OP until caw-blade became a thing. Which didn't happen till battle-skull, sword of fire + sword of fire and ice joined the format.
You can actually make the logistic argument if those two cards (as well as SFM) were never printed JTMS would have avoided a ban at all.
It didn't really become too oppressive until after BBE rotated and other broken cards entered the format.
Jace will be fine. Even in legacy he is only a 2 of. The reality is with all of the linear strategies blue needed something to balance the format out. To be honest turn 3 or 4 Karn is a lot more powerful than Jace.
Jace will be fine. Even in legacy he is only a 2 of. The reality is with all of the linear strategies blue needed something to balance the format out. To be honest turn 3 or 4 Karn is a lot more powerful than Jace.
Jace is a 2 of in legacy because a 4 drop in a format with Wasteland, Daze, and Force of Will is a huge liability. And yes turn 3 karn is more powerful than Jace, but t3 karn requires a lot more to go right than just play islands.
I don't get the complaints about Jace being in Masters 25 and that somehow meaning they are using this unban to sell packs. They reprinted him FTV 20 and did not unban him. They reprinted him in EMA and did not unban him. I would argue that since they said in the article they talk about Jace every so often, they have been increasing supply of Jace for this reason. Are people suggesting that they can never unban a card in Modern because it is being printed in a set to generate more supply?
Reprinting JTMS to meet supply caused by a well-founded unban that would happen anyway to make a format better? Good. Unbanning JTMS with the main intention being to make a reprint set sell, not make a format better? Not good. Which one is this?
I dunno, we don't have access to that information, so whichever one fits your bias, I guess.
Also, you cannot have it both ways. If they unbanned Jace with no reprint then people will say there was not enough supply and the cost of entry barrier would be unfair. WOTC does make mistakes but these unbannings will not be one of them. And before some one makes the argument, GGT was rebanned because of the printing of Cathartic Reunion combined with Prized Amalgam. Yet, Modern is so powerful Dredge was not seen very much at the PT. Personally, this makes me excited about Modern even more, and I hope that Dominaria brings back an era of more Powerful answers instead of just creature value.
Tell you what. You play JTMS and I get a choice of any deck in Modern. Many games by turn 4 the game is over or all but over. JTMS is just another powerful card in a powerful format. Anyone playing tournament Modern better get used to the idea that some games you just lose. That is Modern. And there is no way that Jace is more powerful than a majority of the strategies in Modern. Have you watched blue attempt to win a long game against Tron? Nuff said. Now, if they had SFM with JTMS, well that is a different ballgame.
Also, you cannot have it both ways. If they unbanned Jace with no reprint then people will say there was not enough supply and the cost of entry barrier would be unfair. WOTC does make mistakes but these unbannings will not be one of them. And before some one makes the argument, GGT was rebanned because of the printing of Cathartic Reunion combined with Prized Amalgam. Yet, Modern is so powerful Dredge was not seen very much at the PT. Personally, this makes me excited about Modern even more, and I hope that Dominaria brings back an era of more Powerful answers instead of just creature value.
This. Grave-troll unban actually didn't do anything until Cathartic Reunion was reprinted.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
+1
After the eldrazi winter, the linear strat decks were everywhere, usually winning before turn 4. Imo that would be the best time to unban jtms, giving the blue control decks at the time a chance to win if they could survive. Right now it's a bit more problematic, since there are already some U control decks (and lantern control), but i'm still expecting the format to be balanced. Maybe i'm wrong, but i had the same opinion of AV and when it was unbanned, everyone was doomsaying that modern would die because of it.
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesThis indeed.
You can be dead to board turn 3 easily, and just yesterday we saw Grishoalbrand win on Turn 2 on Twitch.
Jace is a new contender at the top of the tournament deck lists, but he's just another Good card, that will amp up an archetype (Control) that is struggling in the face of truly over a dozen linear/aggro/combo decks.
Spirits
Like I said before: a few days ago a fake MTGO screen shot with JTMS getting unbanned surfaced.
Spike happened around that time.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
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Current Decks
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Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Also this unbanning right before Masters 25 is mega sketchy, not a good move Wizards.
An enigma as vexing as life itself.
They said they found that a 4 drop is not often being played unless it wins games. Jace does not win the game and can be dealt with (how well he can be dealt with remains to be seen). BBE is one way so that is nice, but Modern is a fairly aggressive format. He will make an impact to be sure, but it will not be the end of Modern.
How about we actually let the card into the format and see what happens? It is possible we see a situation where Jace is deemed to be too powerful. And they need to reban him. It could happen and I don't fault people for bringing that possibility to light. However, I feel this is a much better line to take in the long run than just sitting back and saying "the format looks good; lets not mess with it".
Eh. BBE + JTMS have been on the "probable" list for years.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
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Current Decks
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Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Wizards profits are from players buying sealed products of NEW released sets. Wizards doesn't make a penny off the secondary market, so why is it any surprise that they aren't playing their best hand, to sell the most sealed product of M25? The health of Modern, Legacy, and Vintage does not affect their profits, so why should they care about it?
1) BBE + JTMS has been on the "probable" unban list for a very long time. It was always speculated that these cards were a package deal (you couldn't unban one without unbanning the other).
2) M25 is not the reason why JTMS is unbanned. If it was: why didn't they unban it during eternal masters? Or any other time they reprinted JTMS?
3) JTMS is not great vs fast linear decks. I don't think it will skew the meta as much as people are fearing. Control decks under-performed at the PT (in terms of conversion rates).
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
I am fairly certain they did not unban him just to sell M25.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I'm going to go with 'he just needed an unban' and a reprint is a GOOD THING.
Spirits
This isn't the problem. He is great against everything else so he is just further incentive to play those fast decks. If you aren't one of those fast decks, you either better have jace, or just concede you are going to lose to jace and try to be good against the fast linear decks looking to go under him.
When Worldwake came out, they didn't ban Jace till the end of rotation because Worldwake was selling too well, so yeah, while balancing allow Jace to return, it probably has more to do with the sells.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
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"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Recently MTGGoldfish had a match between an unbanned Jund and an unbanned U/W Control and Jace took over whatever game he was in or the reason you were able to pull ahead.
Yes, they were on the "probable list" for some time, but I can't see anyone is going to like BBE into things like Abrupt Decay, Fatal Push, or Lightning Bolt, let alone a myriad of other things. People can't have forgotten the amount of value cascade has, right?
WotC just wants to sell a ton of Masters 25 packs as people try to hunt for Jaces.
Horrible.
They never banned it until the end of rotation for packs... They didn't ban it until the end of rotation because it wasn't OP until caw-blade became a thing. Which didn't happen till battle-skull, sword of fire + sword of fire and ice joined the format.
You can actually make the logistic argument if those two cards (as well as SFM) were never printed JTMS would have avoided a ban at all.
It didn't really become too oppressive until after BBE rotated and other broken cards entered the format.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
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Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
Jace is a 2 of in legacy because a 4 drop in a format with Wasteland, Daze, and Force of Will is a huge liability. And yes turn 3 karn is more powerful than Jace, but t3 karn requires a lot more to go right than just play islands.
I dunno, we don't have access to that information, so whichever one fits your bias, I guess.
This. Grave-troll unban actually didn't do anything until Cathartic Reunion was reprinted.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA