I don't believe what Maro says is law, but he answered another fans question today on "Regeneration".
Does Regenerate have fans? People at WOTC who want to make it work?
Regeneration doesn’t have many fans in R&D. This is one death that probably isn’t going to be saved. : )
I am not sure if it is R&D that is putting this duel deck together, but I am kind of convinced that the rewording of "Regeneration" is not the surprise is regarding much anymore.
In addition to that answer, he just answered the following: Of all sets that we currently only know by their codename, which one contains a mechanic that you had to fight the hardest to get into that set? (obviously I don't need to know what the mechanic is, just that there is such a mechanic)
In another question he states it is a new mechanic. While this could be anything, the mechanic "Unique", alongside dropping the rules baggage the Legendary type has, is one thing MaRo have been fighting for, for a long time.
If this was to ever happen, Ezuri seems to be the kind of card that would get the keyword Unique: multiple of them on the battlefield are problematic as they could regenerate one another.
This may be farfetched. But rules change or not, it does seem that the change is related to the Legendary supertype.
I was just speaking off the cuff and wasn’t waterproofing my concept. As it is sacrifice effects make regeneration illegal - I would expect the rule change that would come with this would clarify that sacrificed creatures can’t regenerate as well (the same exclusionary text that would make Wrath and Terror still neuter regen, the definition of Sacrifice would as well. Or the Regen text would include ‘if it wasn’t sacrificed...’.
There are other issues with the concept as well... like, Vital Splicer becoming useless. That’s the difference between a design change floated on the spur of the moment in a brainstorm and a design a professional team would hammer out for months.
It is a lot easier to heckle people contributing thoughts than actually venture anything yourself though. Keep heckling, eventually people will stop contributing entirely and you win.
Dude, I wasn't heckling. I was contributing to a conversation and providing a counterpoint. You know, the same thing that a professional design team would do to hammer out something that works. The only reason I had to quote it a second time was someone who took one of my counterpoints out of context and didn't understand. I even said in my original response to you that "It's not entirely out of the realm of possibility, as they have made functional changes to abilities in the past."
That being said, you're right, regenerating tokens would also be a problem with that design.
I was reading up the other day on how confusing "regeneration" was to not only new players, but even the WOTC staff that led away from using that and replacing it with indestructible until end of turn effects. My bet would be that that is it. I understand it is a functionality change, but WOTC HAS done that with other cards, such as Lord of Atlantis, Lord of the Undead, and also every creature that has been reprinted and had different creature types multiple times, Phage the Untouchable as an example there.
A slight wording change meant to keep functionality as intact as possible, and the occasional change of creature types to keep cards in a place that makes sense is a whole world of things different than replacing one keyword mechanic with another entirely. Replacing regenerate with temporary indestructible would be way too drastic a change to make and would set a very bad precedent in a paper card game. If I could see them doing anything to change how regenerate is presented on cards, it would be deleting the keyword entirely, and just spelling out the rules in whatever way they think makes the most sense.
That said, the most likely culprit here for hiding the card is some kind of special treatment for the card (full art, new frame, new foiling treatment, whatever) that they don't want to spoil just yet.
A slight wording change meant to keep functionality as intact as possible, and the occasional change of creature types to keep cards in a place that makes sense is a whole world of things different than replacing one keyword mechanic with another entirely. Replacing regenerate with temporary indestructible would be way too drastic a change to make and would set a very bad precedent in a paper card game. If I could see them doing anything to change how regenerate is presented on cards, it would be deleting the keyword entirely, and just spelling out the rules in whatever way they think makes the most sense.
The effects given by the lords I had mentioned was not just a slight change. It affected them to the point that they are now seeing heavy play in multiple formats, particularly with Merfolk. As for the whole "Regeneration" shindig, I had mentioned that WOTC has since removed that ability, and replaced it with cards that provide "Indestructible" now, such as Heroic Intervention. Doing something similar may be in their plans, but I wouldn't know, as I had established multiple times in the thread earlier.
This is all speculation, and I too am now in the camp with a frame being changed for legendary permanents, although I believe that would be totally pointless and unessecary.
They quite likely didn’t know this was going to be the last one when they were working on it. They were likely working on the one that was supposed to be the next one after this when they were told the duel deck line was getting scrapped, so abandon the project.
The field of stuff they could reprint (not reserved list) and hasn’t ‘recently’ been reprinted is getting pretty thin, isn’t it? Between commander decks, duel decks, and multiple times a year now Masters sets, that pool is pretty shallow.
I don't think the recent change in planeswalkers rules out the Legendary rules baggage getting dumped. We all know Mark wants it gone however I also believe a new frame is likely now that they have confimed they can go a little outside of that box.
the list of value cards that could feasibly be reprinted in these decks is pretty extensive. the stuff they've already spoiled adds up to about 18 dollars already. lots of elf cards and artifact cards are in the 2-7 dollar range. if you think everything that needs a reprint has gotten one then you clearly haven't heard about lorwyn block. i bet we'll see at least some lorwyn elves. heritage druid is 4 dollars. devoted druid is a common and it costs over 6 dollars. nettle sentinel is a pauper all star and costs 4 dollars.
this is kind of the perfect place to reprint these things. (but they still probably won't)
I don't think changing Regenerate to Indestructible works - if anything they might change it to be something more like Persist/Undying.
T: Target Elf gains Renegenerate until end of turn (when that creature dies this turn, its controller returns it to the battlefield tapped under that player's control)
Then it would be an inconsequential wording change to still have that still get hosed by Wrath of God/Terror and such.
Giving regenerating creatures LTB/ETB/Dies triggers is a far less crushing overhaul than the suggested Indestructible change that would remove so much of Renegerate's other functionality (removal from combat, tapping the creature, noninteraction with Wrath/Terror, etc)
I really like this, and would greatfully get behind it.
That would be a pretty huge change to regenerate and -X/-X effects. It also would get rid of counters, auras, equipment, etc, which current regen doesn't.
I don't think changing Regenerate to Indestructible works - if anything they might change it to be something more like Persist/Undying.
T: Target Elf gains Renegenerate until end of turn (when that creature dies this turn, its controller returns it to the battlefield tapped under that player's control)
Then it would be an inconsequential wording change to still have that still get hosed by Wrath of God/Terror and such.
Giving regenerating creatures LTB/ETB/Dies triggers is a far less crushing overhaul than the suggested Indestructible change that would remove so much of Renegerate's other functionality (removal from combat, tapping the creature, noninteraction with Wrath/Terror, etc)
I really like this, and would greatfully get behind it.
That would be a pretty huge change to regenerate and -X/-X effects. It also would get rid of counters, auras, equipment, etc, which current regen doesn't.
Not sure why you were responding to me as I am not the one that brought up the idea, but, alright.
I don't think changing Regenerate to Indestructible works - if anything they might change it to be something more like Persist/Undying.
T: Target Elf gains Renegenerate until end of turn (when that creature dies this turn, its controller returns it to the battlefield tapped under that player's control)
Then it would be an inconsequential wording change to still have that still get hosed by Wrath of God/Terror and such.
Giving regenerating creatures LTB/ETB/Dies triggers is a far less crushing overhaul than the suggested Indestructible change that would remove so much of Renegerate's other functionality (removal from combat, tapping the creature, noninteraction with Wrath/Terror, etc)
I really like this, and would greatfully get behind it.
That would be a pretty huge change to regenerate and -X/-X effects. It also would get rid of counters, auras, equipment, etc, which current regen doesn't.
Not sure why you were responding to me as I am not the one that brought up the idea, but, alright.
Because that post contained both the original idea and your support for it. Relax, it wasn't a personal attack on you.
Because that post contained both the original idea and your support for it. Relax, it wasn't a personal attack on you.
My support for it is irrelevant as to what your opinion was on his idea, hence my confusion on why you responded including me. I could honestly care less if you made an attack on me.
They're not changing Regenerate. They don't waste that kind of design time on a mechanic they've already officially stopped using.
Banding was long-stopped-using, and Phasing is incredibly seldom, but they made major rules changes involving them.
My thinking is that, *if* they’re changing regeneration, they’re changing it because they plan to reintroduce it in its more rules-team-happy form. It wouldn’t just be a change to existing cards but keep it retired. It would be a change the rules team would be happy enough with to unretire it, and start printing new cards with the nu-regenerate at the same time as errating the oldies. Perhaps in Dominaria.
How many regenerate cards have any reminder text next to the keyword? I can't recall any, but most of my interaction with it is from the original sets. While changing the effect to behave as indestructible until EoT would be a big functional change, it wouldn't actually invalidate the text of printed cards.
While changing the effect to behave as indestructible until EoT would be a big functional change, it wouldn't actually invalidate the text of printed cards.
While changing the effect to behave as indestructible until EoT would be a big functional change, it wouldn't actually invalidate the text of printed cards.
Only can see two course of action these cards get a buff and now work on indestructible stuff (cool) or they no longer work as intended and your wrath of god is now a literal renamed Day of Judgement.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
In addition to that answer, he just answered the following:
Of all sets that we currently only know by their codename, which one contains a mechanic that you had to fight the hardest to get into that set? (obviously I don't need to know what the mechanic is, just that there is such a mechanic)
Dominaria
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/170596437053/of-all-sets-that-we-currently-only-know-by-their
In another question he states it is a new mechanic. While this could be anything, the mechanic "Unique", alongside dropping the rules baggage the Legendary type has, is one thing MaRo have been fighting for, for a long time.
If this was to ever happen, Ezuri seems to be the kind of card that would get the keyword Unique: multiple of them on the battlefield are problematic as they could regenerate one another.
This may be farfetched. But rules change or not, it does seem that the change is related to the Legendary supertype.
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
That being said, you're right, regenerating tokens would also be a problem with that design.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
that you were trying to tell people this discussion was unwelcome. That’s how it came across.
That said, the most likely culprit here for hiding the card is some kind of special treatment for the card (full art, new frame, new foiling treatment, whatever) that they don't want to spoil just yet.
The effects given by the lords I had mentioned was not just a slight change. It affected them to the point that they are now seeing heavy play in multiple formats, particularly with Merfolk. As for the whole "Regeneration" shindig, I had mentioned that WOTC has since removed that ability, and replaced it with cards that provide "Indestructible" now, such as Heroic Intervention. Doing something similar may be in their plans, but I wouldn't know, as I had established multiple times in the thread earlier.
This is all speculation, and I too am now in the camp with a frame being changed for legendary permanents, although I believe that would be totally pointless and unessecary.
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
They quite likely didn’t know this was going to be the last one when they were working on it. They were likely working on the one that was supposed to be the next one after this when they were told the duel deck line was getting scrapped, so abandon the project.
The field of stuff they could reprint (not reserved list) and hasn’t ‘recently’ been reprinted is getting pretty thin, isn’t it? Between commander decks, duel decks, and multiple times a year now Masters sets, that pool is pretty shallow.
I am sure these decks will be balanced.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
https://archidekt.com/user/71716
No, it isn't. WotC pretty much ignores the majority of Masques-Mirrodin era cards.
this is kind of the perfect place to reprint these things. (but they still probably won't)
That would be a pretty huge change to regenerate and -X/-X effects. It also would get rid of counters, auras, equipment, etc, which current regen doesn't.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Not sure why you were responding to me as I am not the one that brought up the idea, but, alright.
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
Because that post contained both the original idea and your support for it. Relax, it wasn't a personal attack on you.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
My support for it is irrelevant as to what your opinion was on his idea, hence my confusion on why you responded including me. I could honestly care less if you made an attack on me.
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
How many regenerate cards have any reminder text next to the keyword? I can't recall any, but most of my interaction with it is from the original sets. While changing the effect to behave as indestructible until EoT would be a big functional change, it wouldn't actually invalidate the text of printed cards.
Matopi Golem?
Skeleton Scavengers?
Soldevi Sentry?
How would it even work with the last lines of Terror or Wrath of God?
Only can see two course of action these cards get a buff and now work on indestructible stuff (cool) or they no longer work as intended and your wrath of god is now a literal renamed Day of Judgement.