One point that Wizards has not digested is that Modern Master can attract people playing modern because the cards you open are modern-legal. The fact that this is almost a tautology yet Wizards ditches that aspect of master set befuddles me. Had they done a Legacy Master set instead of Iconic Master would have been better received because when you buy into the set, you know what you're getting.
Iconic Master and now Master 25 have no set-legality focus, so Legacy players opening a modern card and modern players opening a legacy card will both be annoyed.
It can only be redeemed if the value is high enough that reselling / trading what is not part of your favorite format still recoup a decent percentage of what you spent.
PS: as illustration, can you imagine if Ixalan had lightning strike in booster pack without the card being standard legal (say, by using a special set symbol) with the excuse that it was needed to make the draft format "fun, try it!" but not part of standard? That's what Iconic Master set and M25 do.
One point that Wizards has not digested is that Modern Master can attract people playing modern because the cards you open are modern-legal. The fact that this is almost a tautology yet Wizards ditches that aspect of master set befuddles me. Had they done a Legacy Master set instead of Iconic Master would have been better received because when you buy into the set, you know what you're getting.
Iconic Master and now Master 25 have no set-legality focus, so Legacy players opening a modern card and modern players opening a legacy card will both be annoyed.
It can only be redeemed if the value is high enough that reselling / trading what is not part of your favorite format still recoup a decent percentage of what you spent.
PS: as illustration, can you imagine if Ixalan had lightning strike in booster pack without the card being standard legal (say, by using a special set symbol) with the excuse that it was needed to make the draft format "fun, try it!" but not part of standard? That's what Iconic Master set and M25 do.
Isn't that exactly what happened with the Masterpieces? WotC made it pretty clear they're not legal in constructed Standard for the set they're printed in but legal in Draft. Like you said, only saving grace is when the lowest is like what? $15? That's essentially three free packs for a Standard player, usually a lot more.
It doesn't always have to be about being modern and standard legal, but it helps significantly when the cards are played in at least the non-rotating format of choice for most locales. There was a time and place where this wasn't true, but times have changed since then.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Masterpeice cards come one per two boxes. They are incredibly rare. Also most of them have pretty good effects. I seriously doubt someone is going to open a Masterpeice up and go, "Oh darn, I wish I hadn't pulled this really rare and valuable card!"
Masterpeice cards come one per two boxes. They are incredibly rare. Also most of them have pretty good effects. I seriously doubt someone is going to open a Masterpeice up and go, "Oh darn, I wish I hadn't pulled this really rare and valuable card!"
I think you're misreading my post. I did say the saving grace for Masterpieces is the monetary market value. My point is the Masterpieces are generally (always?) not legal in their respective set format (e.g. Standard). You take away that monetary value, what's left? The scenario I responded to.
Masterpeice cards come one per two boxes. They are incredibly rare. Also most of them have pretty good effects. I seriously doubt someone is going to open a Masterpeice up and go, "Oh darn, I wish I hadn't pulled this really rare and valuable card!"
I think you're misreading my post. I did say the saving grace for Masterpieces is the monetary market value. My point is the Masterpieces are generally (always?) not legal in their respective set format (e.g. Standard). You take away that monetary value, what's left? The scenario I responded to.
The person you were responding to is talking about a card like Channel in Iconic Masters. The card is basically useless (only legal in one format, where it is restricted) and worthless (card has no value), yet it is eating up a Mythic Rare Slot.
The point of Masterpeices is that they are highly desired cards in formats other than Standard. The cards have value, to the player, even if he never sells the card, since they are useful in other formats.
This makes you people even blinder than that if it was all because there was not enough iconic creatures
(But yes there should have Ben more creatures in iconic masters.)
Basically what I am hearing is that they are still focusing on drafting $10 dollar packs. Yay...
So long as they avoid feel bad moments (like pulling a mythic rare Channel), I will be happier.
Honestly, the approach they are taking to set design for these doesn't sound bad in a vacuum. It's solely the price point that is out of whack, which is probably set by Corporate/Marketing and R&D probably doesn't get a ton of input on.
As far as the collection of cards goes, I've had no major problems with the overall balance of the cards themselves in masters sets thus far. It's the price point for me, especially if it's intended as a draft set.
As far as the collection of cards goes, I've had no major problems with the overall balance of the cards themselves in masters sets thus far. It's the price point for me, especially if it's intended as a draft set.
I think the only reason they haven't dropped the price on the sets is because they are afraid of the cards they are printing in the set losing their value. Kind of ironic since the primary reason people want the reprints is to lower the cost on the secondary market. What I would have preferred Wizards doing is reprinting the top end cards like Karn Liberated in a half reprint set of some sort or a collector box set if they couldn't put together a set at a lower MSRP.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
As far as the collection of cards goes, I've had no major problems with the overall balance of the cards themselves in masters sets thus far. It's the price point for me, especially if it's intended as a draft set.
I think the only reason they haven't dropped the price on the sets is because they are afraid of the cards they are printing in the set losing their value. Kind of ironic since the primary reason people want the reprints is to lower the cost on the secondary market. What I would have preferred Wizards doing is reprinting the top end cards like Karn Liberated in a half reprint set of some sort or a collector box set if they couldn't put together a set at a lower MSRP.
Like conspiracy. Which are also draft sets, and are a blast to draft, have plenty of value, plenty of reprints, and are $6NZD apiece.
I feel like "commander masters" (would be udder shocked if they never do theme around commander) will envolved a lot of daughter after legendaries getting whatever ezuri is getting in the duel deck (if it involves the legendary subtype.)
As far as the collection of cards goes, I've had no major problems with the overall balance of the cards themselves in masters sets thus far. It's the price point for me, especially if it's intended as a draft set.
I think the only reason they haven't dropped the price on the sets is because they are afraid of the cards they are printing in the set losing their value. Kind of ironic since the primary reason people want the reprints is to lower the cost on the secondary market. What I would have preferred Wizards doing is reprinting the top end cards like Karn Liberated in a half reprint set of some sort or a collector box set if they couldn't put together a set at a lower MSRP.
Like conspiracy. Which are also draft sets, and are a blast to draft, have plenty of value, plenty of reprints, and are $6NZD apiece.
And they actually did put good value reprints in conspiracy 2 with Berserk being among them. The main problem was that they picked a bunch of cards that don't see a ton of play outside of legacy and casual play so they lost their value quickly.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
WoTC didn't even know what they were doing with the masters sets to begin with. The reality is that the people that are opening the most when it comes to these sets are the singles sellers and they were making these sets as if they were being used for draft. Since the price per box was 240 msrp and only a few of the top end cards really got played heavily in constructed, those ate a huge swath of the box price while the other cards basically became worthless. As a side effect, they never really succeeded at making formats cheaper.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
As a rule of thumb if a chase/staple card is reprinted in a low print run set the price/accessibility won’t really be affected positively, if anything it can sometimes generate hype and increase the price.
If they truly wanted to increase access or lower prices they’d realize high print run sets are where you do that, with cards like Thoughtseize and the KTK fetches being the best examples.
This myth that reprinting something in a masters set does much for the community is just that, a myth. Nobody at WotC can make that claim with a straight face if you look at the prices of staples like Liliana, Snapcaster, etc despite being reprinted.
Riku of Two Reflections - Copy, then copy again | Shattergang Brothers - Token Sac&Recur | Gahiji, Honored One - Multiple attack steps | Karametra, God of Harvests - Landfall, Creaturefall, Shroud | Ruhan of the Fomori - Stop hitting yourself | Zurgo Helmsmasher - Equipment&Wraths | Crosis, the Purger - Dragon Tribal Reanimator | Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - No stax, just tap and untap fun | Anafenza, the Foremost - Enduring Ideal Enchantress | Sharuum, the Hegemon - Sphinx Tribal Control | Noyan Dar - Spellslinger | The Mimeoplasm - Counterpalooza
Lists can be found here.
Still convinced the guy on Beseech the Queen is wearing a Mitra-type hat. Wake up sheeple!
Instead of being focused on formats, Masters sets going forward are going to be focused on themes.
What does that mean for the legality of the cards?
Cards being released in a Masters-set never affected their legality in any of format (since they were always reprints outside of Standard - and being printed in a Standard-legal set (after a certain cut-off set which is static for eternal formats and changes over time for rotating formats) is how legality in the tournament formats is determined).
That shouldn't change. A card is legal in the same formats after a Masters-printing as it was before (plus being legal in <foo> Masters-Limited draft ).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I responded to Gavin in a lengthy email, but the crux of it is that the theme (whether draft archetypes or flavour) should not override the need for staples coming back (such as Scapeshift and fetchlands) and that I sincerely hope Modern Masters comes back with alternating themes in off-years or summer releases.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
I responded to Gavin in a lengthy email, but the crux of it is that the theme (whether draft archetypes or flavour) should not override the need for staples coming back (such as Scapeshift and fetchlands) and that I sincerely hope Modern Masters comes back with alternating themes in off-years or summer releases.
That's really the crux of the issue. They want to make draft sets and don't grasp who actually opens these the most. Also, the fact the runs are limited along with the high msrp puts the sets in a very awkward place.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I responded to Gavin in a lengthy email, but the crux of it is that the theme (whether draft archetypes or flavour) should not override the need for staples coming back (such as Scapeshift and fetchlands) and that I sincerely hope Modern Masters comes back with alternating themes in off-years or summer releases.
Finally someone else understands what I've been squawking about with Draft-centric sets. Thank you.
Look at $10/pack these are tailor made for people who like gambling. There's nothing wrong with that but I'm generally out.
Aren't there enough "needed reprints" that they could literally just use the ENTIRE rare slot on chase cards and use the commons/uncommons for draft? Try to focus on $$ cards that suck in draft. You could even draft it so that you intentionally REMOVE the Rare like it was a token or a basic -- maybe you can't even put it in your deck -- then you draft like normal.
But that is a lot of work I am still pretty down on $30-45 draft sets.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Iconic Master and now Master 25 have no set-legality focus, so Legacy players opening a modern card and modern players opening a legacy card will both be annoyed.
It can only be redeemed if the value is high enough that reselling / trading what is not part of your favorite format still recoup a decent percentage of what you spent.
PS: as illustration, can you imagine if Ixalan had lightning strike in booster pack without the card being standard legal (say, by using a special set symbol) with the excuse that it was needed to make the draft format "fun, try it!" but not part of standard? That's what Iconic Master set and M25 do.
Isn't that exactly what happened with the Masterpieces? WotC made it pretty clear they're not legal in constructed Standard for the set they're printed in but legal in Draft. Like you said, only saving grace is when the lowest is like what? $15? That's essentially three free packs for a Standard player, usually a lot more.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think you're misreading my post. I did say the saving grace for Masterpieces is the monetary market value. My point is the Masterpieces are generally (always?) not legal in their respective set format (e.g. Standard). You take away that monetary value, what's left? The scenario I responded to.
The person you were responding to is talking about a card like Channel in Iconic Masters. The card is basically useless (only legal in one format, where it is restricted) and worthless (card has no value), yet it is eating up a Mythic Rare Slot.
The point of Masterpeices is that they are highly desired cards in formats other than Standard. The cards have value, to the player, even if he never sells the card, since they are useful in other formats.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/future-masters-2018-02-22
This makes you people even blinder than that if it was all because there was not enough iconic creatures
(But yes there should have Ben more creatures in iconic masters.)
So long as they avoid feel bad moments (like pulling a mythic rare Channel), I will be happier.
Honestly, the approach they are taking to set design for these doesn't sound bad in a vacuum. It's solely the price point that is out of whack, which is probably set by Corporate/Marketing and R&D probably doesn't get a ton of input on.
I think the only reason they haven't dropped the price on the sets is because they are afraid of the cards they are printing in the set losing their value. Kind of ironic since the primary reason people want the reprints is to lower the cost on the secondary market. What I would have preferred Wizards doing is reprinting the top end cards like Karn Liberated in a half reprint set of some sort or a collector box set if they couldn't put together a set at a lower MSRP.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Like conspiracy. Which are also draft sets, and are a blast to draft, have plenty of value, plenty of reprints, and are $6NZD apiece.
And they actually did put good value reprints in conspiracy 2 with Berserk being among them. The main problem was that they picked a bunch of cards that don't see a ton of play outside of legacy and casual play so they lost their value quickly.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If they truly wanted to increase access or lower prices they’d realize high print run sets are where you do that, with cards like Thoughtseize and the KTK fetches being the best examples.
This myth that reprinting something in a masters set does much for the community is just that, a myth. Nobody at WotC can make that claim with a straight face if you look at the prices of staples like Liliana, Snapcaster, etc despite being reprinted.
YES! Thank you!
You can't say a set is "for drafting" and then expect LGS players to fork over three times the amount of a normal draft...
No thanks, I'll stick with Conspiracy 1/2 as my go-to draft sets.
Regarding today's article: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/future-masters-2018-02-22
What does that mean for the legality of the cards?
Tamanoa - Welcome to the Jungle
Lists can be found here.
Cards being released in a Masters-set never affected their legality in any of format (since they were always reprints outside of Standard - and being printed in a Standard-legal set (after a certain cut-off set which is static for eternal formats and changes over time for rotating formats) is how legality in the tournament formats is determined).
That shouldn't change. A card is legal in the same formats after a Masters-printing as it was before (plus being legal in <foo> Masters-Limited draft ).
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
That's really the crux of the issue. They want to make draft sets and don't grasp who actually opens these the most. Also, the fact the runs are limited along with the high msrp puts the sets in a very awkward place.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Finally someone else understands what I've been squawking about with Draft-centric sets. Thank you.
Aren't there enough "needed reprints" that they could literally just use the ENTIRE rare slot on chase cards and use the commons/uncommons for draft? Try to focus on $$ cards that suck in draft. You could even draft it so that you intentionally REMOVE the Rare like it was a token or a basic -- maybe you can't even put it in your deck -- then you draft like normal.
But that is a lot of work I am still pretty down on $30-45 draft sets.