I haven't liked the upping of complexity in the last few blocks, honestly. If they are going to do something in Return to Dominaria I'm praying they keep to established mechanics like flashback and don't try to start new things like yet another alternate resource to track or cards that require what feels like a paragraph of text to explain what they do.
And after all that text all it equates to is adding a +1/+1 counter on your creature. Tolarian Community College talked, in is Dominaria Predictions video, about exactly this. Like how new "complex" mechanics are so wordy for very minimal/under-powered effects and how Dominaria should bring back old mechanics that wee fan favorites (and not super broken like Dredge or Infect).
Also, again, a more general answer to energy cards would be better counterspells, as they don't allow the energy producing triggers/cost activations to happen, meaning that the "one for half a card" trade with ordinary board removal wouldn't be necessary.
That isn't true though, let's assume WOTC goes completely insane land and decided. "Lets print mana drain in Kaladesh." do you know what would happen? Energy would just use it and it would make energy stronger, this leads into one thing I did forget.
If we ever return to Kaladesh, and energy is still a mechanic they'd use there, they should probably restrict the timing of activated abilities that pay energy as a cost.
and no Servant of the Conduit/Aether Hub effects that let energy and only energy consistently have an absurd mana base.
I haven't liked the upping of complexity in the last few blocks, honestly. If they are going to do something in Return to Dominaria I'm praying they keep to established mechanics like flashback and don't try to start new things like yet another alternate resource to track or cards that require what feels like a paragraph of text to explain what they do.
And after all that text all it equates to is adding a +1/+1 counter on your creature. Tolarian Community College talked, in is Dominaria Predictions video, about exactly this. Like how new "complex" mechanics are so wordy for very minimal/under-powered effects and how Dominaria should bring back old mechanics that wee fan favorites (and not super broken like Dredge or Infect).
I didn't see his video yet, but I know others have mentioned that the cards during kaladesh to now seemed complicated because of energy and how they were working with the -1/-1 counters. I wouldn't say it is as rough as the time spiral suspend mechanic, but it was still kind of "lets go take this winding serpentine path" instead of just going from A -> B.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
That isn't true though, let's assume WOTC goes completely insane land and decided. "Lets print mana drain in Kaladesh." do you know what would happen? Energy would just use it and it would make energy stronger, this leads into one thing I did forget.
Mana Drain is kind of beyond the scope of what I was thinking about. It's more that certain kinds of removal prey upon certain kinds of threats, and counterspells cut more into energy producers than other kinds of removal do. Now, how do we then make a counterspell that works particularly well against energy cards and not the general field? I have no idea. So for that, you're quite right. But a counterspell (not Counterspell necessarily) would level the playing field more than Doom BLade.
That isn't true though, let's assume WOTC goes completely insane land and decided. "Lets print mana drain in Kaladesh." do you know what would happen? Energy would just use it and it would make energy stronger, this leads into one thing I did forget.
Mana Drain is kind of beyond the scope of what I was thinking about. It's more that certain kinds of removal prey upon certain kinds of threats, and counterspells cut more into energy producers than other kinds of removal do. Now, how do we then make a counterspell that works particularly well against energy cards and not the general field? I have no idea. So for that, you're quite right. But a counterspell (not Counterspell necessarily) would level the playing field more than Doom BLade.
Yes Mana Drain was far beyond the scope, but I was pointing out that one of the most powerful counter spells to ever exist wouldn't have altered one bit in regards to energy. Energy had the major problem of being able to play it's own threats..while being able to also play the answers to it's threats for almost no loss because it was the perfect storm of Good mana fixing, Instant Speed Shenanigans and a mechanic that had no silver bullet that was fast enough to slide under the already existing counter spells in the format.
I also think all the sweepers white has with approach is kind of silly. It's a recipe for disaster even if it turned out okay. Settle/ fumigate/hour right up the curve is just tempting a turbo wipe deck into gain seven/ stabilize gg.
Control and sweepers are so bad right now I'm not sure how you can pick on 'em. They even printed a special counter for aggro decks to counter settle and Spell Pierce anyone? Right now it's gg you're dead with 1 countered sweeper.
That isn't true though, let's assume WOTC goes completely insane land and decided. "Lets print mana drain in Kaladesh." do you know what would happen? Energy would just use it and it would make energy stronger, this leads into one thing I did forget.
Mana Drain is kind of beyond the scope of what I was thinking about. It's more that certain kinds of removal prey upon certain kinds of threats, and counterspells cut more into energy producers than other kinds of removal do. Now, how do we then make a counterspell that works particularly well against energy cards and not the general field? I have no idea. So for that, you're quite right. But a counterspell (not Counterspell necessarily) would level the playing field more than Doom BLade.
Yes Mana Drain was far beyond the scope, but I was pointing out that one of the most powerful counter spells to ever exist wouldn't have altered one bit in regards to energy. Energy had the major problem of being able to play it's own threats..while being able to also play the answers to it's threats for almost no loss because it was the perfect storm of Good mana fixing, Instant Speed Shenanigans and a mechanic that had no silver bullet that was fast enough to slide under the already existing counter spells in the format.
It's not that I don't agree. I'm just considering whether conterspells could be a solution; I usually don't support powerful counterspells in Standard, mind you, which is why I tried to reconsider it; to better my understanding of the game and approach it properly.
TBH I'm wondering what would've happened if Solemnity cost 2 or even 1 mana isntead of 3.
Solemnity is like graveyard hate, necessary in a meta with a graveyard strategy, and the thing with energy decks is that they function even without energy due to the cards being modular enough without the mechanic just at least be playable, and they could always side in Naturalize. Longtusk Cub would be turned into a subpar beater, but would still be a beater regardless, and the player of Solemnity would still lose 1 card and possibly a whole turn 1's or 2's worth of tempo to "halve" the energy cards' efficiency. And if drawn later, it would blank completely, as it does a lot of the time right now.
I also think all the sweepers white has with approach is kind of silly. It's a recipe for disaster even if it turned out okay. Settle/ fumigate/hour right up the curve is just tempting a turbo wipe deck into gain seven/ stabilize gg.
Control and sweepers are so bad right now I'm not sure how you can pick on 'em. They even printed a special counter for aggro decks to counter settle and Spell Pierce anyone? Right now it's gg you're dead with 1 countered sweeper.
Honestly, every time I try building something in standard right now it feels like the design team wants to both simultaneously promote and hate on mid-range decks. They want creatures to stay on the field so the game feels good, but then don't want them being too good so they strap odd limitations that limit deck building, then print answers for the creatures later even though many don't get played because of the deck building limitations. Yes, this makes perfect sense.
Yes, a 1/1 at 4 mana and a 2/2 at 5 mana that both can run away with the game, so lets make them killable with Magma Spray? What the heck are they thinking?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This article, other than the team stuff, seems to hit a lot of nails on the head.
What do I want Standard to be? doesn't have to be a complicated question.
I'd like standard to go back past 2 years ago when they designed balanced (for the most part) cards and let people make decks with them.
No force feeding.
No pushing creatures.
Just balanced cards with all Strats being viable. Control, ramp, aggro, and midrange should all get some love.
Oh yea and screw vehicles. Broken pushed crap. I predict not being the only one very sick of Heart of Kiran in the next few months. 2 for a 4/4 and no sickness tapping... pshhh.
Hazoret should have gotten the ban instead of the Dino for sure.
This article, other than the team stuff, seems to hit a lot of nails on the head.
What do I want Standard to be? doesn't have to be a complicated question.
I'd like standard to go back past 2 years ago when they designed balanced (for the most part) cards and let people make decks with them.
No force feeding.
No pushing creatures.
Just balanced cards with all Strats being viable. Control, ramp, aggro, and midrange should all get some love.
Oh yea and screw vehicles. Broken pushed crap. I predict not being the only one very sick of Heart of Kiran in the next few months. 2 for a 4/4 and no sickness tapping... pshhh.
Hazoret should have gotten the ban instead of the Dino for sure.
They've done this before years ago when Karn Liberated was printed into standard. Caw Blade Era was the second worst era that most people playing today never lived through, but it had a lot of similarities to the standard we just broke out of. However, being the guy looking into the past from the future, I would have loved to have been in the position I'm in now back then simply because they had so many power house cards in that standard. Original zendikar fetchlands, the original man-land cycle, JTMS, Karn, SFM, etc. Anyone who was alive and playing at that time had access to some of the best cards to have seen print in ages. The only ones that come close now are Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, possibly Chandra, Torch of Defiance, and maybe Grim Flayer. Looking back at that era, the cards feel a lot more strait forward than they do now in the current set, and phyrexian mana was no where near the mind twist that was the hybrid mana or the first flip cards. Flippy werewolves made me want to pound my head into a wall due to all the sleeving issues. Even using proxies you'd still have your flip cards in a pile and people could see what you were playing, so it always ended up with flip cards being sleeved with the deck itself and just pulling them out and putting them back in again.
Modern really is defined by the earlier sets before RTR, and while that era had it's mistakes, it was much less of a tinker toy landscape that the current game has turned into.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This article, other than the team stuff, seems to hit a lot of nails on the head.
What do I want Standard to be? doesn't have to be a complicated question.
I'd like standard to go back past 2 years ago when they designed balanced (for the most part) cards and let people make decks with them.
No force feeding.
No pushing creatures.
Just balanced cards with all Strats being viable. Control, ramp, aggro, and midrange should all get some love.
Oh yea and screw vehicles. Broken pushed crap. I predict not being the only one very sick of Heart of Kiran in the next few months. 2 for a 4/4 and no sickness tapping... pshhh.
Hazoret should have gotten the ban instead of the Dino for sure.
They've done this before years ago when Karn Liberated was printed into standard. Caw Blade Era was the second worst era that most people playing today never lived through, but it had a lot of similarities to the standard we just broke out of. However, being the guy looking into the past from the future, I would have loved to have been in the position I'm in now back then simply because they had so many power house cards in that standard. Original zendikar fetchlands, the original man-land cycle, JTMS, Karn, SFM, etc. Anyone who was alive and playing at that time had access to some of the best cards to have seen print in ages. The only ones that come close now are Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, possibly Chandra, Torch of Defiance, and maybe Grim Flayer. Looking back at that era, the cards feel a lot more strait forward than they do now in the current set, and phyrexian mana was no where near the mind twist that was the hybrid mana or the first flip cards. Flippy werewolves made me want to pound my head into a wall due to all the sleeving issues. Even using proxies you'd still have your flip cards in a pile and people could see what you were playing, so it always ended up with flip cards being sleeved with the deck itself and just pulling them out and putting them back in again.
Modern really is defined by the earlier sets before RTR, and while that era had it's mistakes, it was much less of a tinker toy landscape that the current game has turned into.
I'd much rather be back during Zen-SoM Standard than now. At least when cards were banned they were because they were truly powerful or were incredibly strong strategies because of a group of strong cards. Nowadays the bans are strictly because of the environment they are in, rather than the card on its own. All of the recent ones have been because of the lack of answers and pushing mechanics/cards for the strict purpose of making sure they see play, and if there's no way to answer specific effects or cards even if it is average at best the card is bound to seem too strong in a sea of below average.
Back during Zen/SoM Cawblade didn't start to become oppressive until Sword of Feast and Famine and didn't truly become that way until Batterskull released. Even then there were answers to everything and before Batterskull released just about every archtype was supported enough. I'd much rather be back then than now. Strong cards were just about everywhere and only when a truly strong deck took over was there an issue.
When the best of the best can't beat something there is an issue, but when there are issues when everything is pretty average there are far worse problems in play.
This article, other than the team stuff, seems to hit a lot of nails on the head.
What do I want Standard to be? doesn't have to be a complicated question.
I'd like standard to go back past 2 years ago when they designed balanced (for the most part) cards and let people make decks with them.
No force feeding.
No pushing creatures.
Just balanced cards with all Strats being viable. Control, ramp, aggro, and midrange should all get some love.
Oh yea and screw vehicles. Broken pushed crap. I predict not being the only one very sick of Heart of Kiran in the next few months. 2 for a 4/4 and no sickness tapping... pshhh.
Hazoret should have gotten the ban instead of the Dino for sure.
Gotta day that I agree with everything the Imp said.
To add, we “know” that the reason Hazoret didn’t get snuffed has nothing to do with actual gameplay. No, if the decision was based off healthy gameplay Hazoret is the clear choice. But, Hazoret is a face card of the story. She’s the only god to survive in the story so they’re not going to ban her. They want the story elements and moments to be exhibited in the matches you play.
I’ve said it before and I will continue to say it until their philosophy changes. Wizards needs to quit worrying about the Story when it comes to card design. Story and gameplay need to be separated to improve the health of this game. When they try to combine the two you end up with a less impactful story and unbalanced, if not boring, cards.
Allow the art and perhaps the name of the card create the tie to the story. The stuff in the text box should be independent of the story.
To add, we “know” that the reason Hazoret didn’t get snuffed has nothing to do with actual gameplay. No, if the decision was based off healthy gameplay Hazoret is the clear choice. But, Hazoret is a face card of the story. She’s the only god to survive in the story so they’re not going to ban her. They want the story elements and moments to be exhibited in the matches you play.
I’ve said it before and I will continue to say it until their philosophy changes. Wizards needs to quit worrying about the Story when it comes to card design. Story and gameplay need to be separated to improve the health of this game. When they try to combine the two you end up with a less impactful story and unbalanced, if not boring, cards.
Allow the art and perhaps the name of the card create the tie to the story. The stuff in the text box should be independent of the story.
Agree x10
Maro loves him some story screwing up balanced play. Has... to... stop. Settle the Wreckage those who love to see red will say. The worst almost sweeper they could have designed that is enormously easy to play around.
2BB is not that easy to squish into a deck, it's inefficient as hell, and now it's practically a must play.
We are not distracted by Chupacabras!! They don't kill Hazoret! Shocked they didn't just reprint Rancor. Maybe the next set.
I also think all the sweepers white has with approach is kind of silly. It's a recipe for disaster even if it turned out okay. Settle/ fumigate/hour right up the curve is just tempting a turbo wipe deck into gain seven/ stabilize gg.
Control and sweepers are so bad right now I'm not sure how you can pick on 'em. They even printed a special counter for aggro decks to counter settle and Spell Pierce anyone? Right now it's gg you're dead with 1 countered sweeper.
I don't mean they're too powerful in the current meta, I mean without powerful enough shells to play the appropriate answers it seems just risky to print so many white sweepers. It's a critical mass kinda thing. It's not good right now, but what's the tipping point?
At what point did lateen finally get enough to start controlling the draw step into a soft lock? At what point did storm hit the right amount of fixing, reduction, and cantrip to go off. These examples are modern, but I gotta think standard is even more susceptible to critical mass type effects.
We're one low cost hexproof indestructible dude away from IW auras being a legit thing. The deck already feels incredibly powerful to me. Dominaria could knock it out of whack for sure.
I posted a list in standard for Esper Twilight which I think is close to what you're talking about. It's still quite weak in the early steps if you don't hit those short spells. Also Heart of Kiran is a nightmare to deal with if your Fatal Push hides from you.
Still requires a lot of things to go right to lock them down but I certainly did make a Merfolk deck feel like they were completely locked down. Part of the process is getting there, like any control deck getting past T5 and still having cards in hand or momentum is key. Also lots of the pieces are creatures so I don't feel it's unfair at all!
They've made a bunch of changes that made zero sense.
The best standard formats they've ever had were when Ravnica and 9th edition were around. The amount of decks that were playable is at its highest ever.
Various forms of B/W, Heartbeat Combo, Gruul Aggro, Owling Mine, Wildfire, Snow decks, Tron control, Solar Flare control, Dragonstorm Combo, Boros Aggro, Zoo, Mystical Teachings/Teferi control, URW Angelfire.
That format had pretty much all of the things that are allegedly too powerful. 4 mana wraths, 2 mana counterspells, 3 mana land destruction, 1 CMC mana dorks. Yet standard was incredibly diverse and fun. Even Time Spiral + Lorwyn (just the set) was really good, with a ton of really good, viable decks. Things fell apart when they printed Bitterblossom + Mutavault, and standard has struggled since. There have been good formats since then, but overall standard is pretty boring.
Still don't feel hopeful that they've not come out and said 'we're bringing counters and efficient removal back'.
With the dwindling numbers they should be bending over backwards to get people into FNM Standard. They're not.
Still don't feel hopeful that they've not come out and said 'we're bringing counters and efficient removal back'.
With the dwindling numbers they should be bending over backwards to get people into FNM Standard. They're not.
Besides Fatal Push removal for the most part hasn't gotten better like they said they would starting with Hour of Devestation. Vraska's Contempt, Abrade, and Lightning Strike are all well and good, even though it'd be nice if there was white removal that wasn't an enchantment right now, but I'd still say we're still a bit off in the counterspell department. Creatures do still seem to have quite the edge over removal right now.
One can only hope Dominaria is where things will be more equal going forward.
Average cmc of creatures in Standard which have power >= 3: 4.46 (you may take my word for it or you can calculate that number for yourself; there are 351 of them out of about 711 in total, not counting creatures which are listed as */* or 0/0). Skywhaler's Shot. Given this set of circumstances, the removal is definitely more efficient that the creatures necessitating it. You even get a free scry.
Creatures coming in to attack? Impeccable Timing if they are smaller (average cmc of creatures which are x/3 or less = 2.81), Sandblast if they are bigger (average cmc of creatures which are x/5 or less = 3.17; there are 673 creatures in this category), or Farm in any other instance (average cmc of all creatures in Standard = 3.36). These also deal with blocking creatures, of course.
Your opponent cast Hazoret? Let her attack, chump-block her, Slaughter the Strong, then see if have another copy in hand. Tokens starting to get out of hand? Time for a reduced-cost Hour of Revelation.
Sufficient answers exist. I suspect the problem comes from people still trying to view Standard through the lens of Modern and the two formats are simply different beasts.
Counterspells? I see a lot of blue players using Search for Azcanta but *not* using Countervailing Winds. They are already looking to put >= 7 cards in the graveyard, so why not "counter target spell unless your opponent pays 5 (or 6, or 7, or more)"? Actually, I know why they don't--it is because they read an article which told them "don't use that".
White removal which deals damage to attacking creatures is a bit pointless. Sure, it gets the creatures off the field (if it's strong enough), but the damage they do is not prevented. And most aggro players and midrange players already know their creatures are a means to an end and are going to die or be removed, and if the removal there is is not actively preventing that end from coming to pass, then there's no reason to use it.
So yeah, go right ahead and Sandblast and Impeccable Timing - big whacks of damage later, they'll be in a prime position to finish you off with cheap damage spells, with plenty of mana left over to pay for annoying counterspell taxes.
Average cmc of creatures in Standard which have power >= 3: 4.46 (you may take my word for it or you can calculate that number for yourself; there are 351 of them out of about 711 in total, not counting creatures which are listed as */* or 0/0). Skywhaler's Shot. Given this set of circumstances, the removal is definitely more efficient that the creatures necessitating it. You even get a free scry.
Creatures coming in to attack? Impeccable Timing if they are smaller (average cmc of creatures which are x/3 or less = 2.81), Sandblast if they are bigger (average cmc of creatures which are x/5 or less = 3.17; there are 673 creatures in this category), or Farm in any other instance (average cmc of all creatures in Standard = 3.36). These also deal with blocking creatures, of course.
Your opponent cast Hazoret? Let her attack, chump-block her, Slaughter the Strong, then see if have another copy in hand. Tokens starting to get out of hand? Time for a reduced-cost Hour of Revelation.
Sufficient answers exist. I suspect the problem comes from people still trying to view Standard through the lens of Modern and the two formats are simply different beasts.
Counterspells? I see a lot of blue players using Search for Azcanta but *not* using Countervailing Winds. They are already looking to put >= 7 cards in the graveyard, so why not "counter target spell unless your opponent pays 5 (or 6, or 7, or more)"? Actually, I know why they don't--it is because they read an article which told them "don't use that".
Countervailing Winds is playable, but there's quite a few decks running Scavenger Grounds. Having a counter basically rendered useless by a graveyard exile effect is not a good feeling.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Countervailing Winds is playable, but there's quite a few decks running Scavenger Grounds. Having a counter basically rendered useless by a graveyard exile effect is not a good feeling.
True. Not every card or strategy is perfect.
Anyway...back on topic...does anyone else find it strangely curious that they banned Rogue Refiner when they knew Tocatli Honor Guard already existed? Especially when the guard also stops the most negative part of Rampaging Ferocidon?
Countervailing Winds is playable, but there's quite a few decks running Scavenger Grounds. Having a counter basically rendered useless by a graveyard exile effect is not a good feeling.
True. Not every card or strategy is perfect.
Anyway...back on topic...does anyone else find it strangely curious that they banned Rogue Refiner when they knew Tocatli Honor Guard already existed? Especially when the guard also stops the most negative part of Rampaging Ferocidon?
Tocatli Honor Guard existed with Ferocidon and Rogue Refiner and saw absolutely no play. The inherent issue was you could make a deck to beat energy or you could make a deck that beat ramanap red, but you couldn't do both. Honor Guard is a great example of this as it did almost nothing to red, but was reasonable against Temur. Of course Temur had Abrade, Harness Lightning, and Chandra to deal with it if it really cared.
Average cmc of creatures in Standard which have power >= 3: 4.46 (you may take my word for it or you can calculate that number for yourself; there are 351 of them out of about 711 in total, not counting creatures which are listed as */* or 0/0). Skywhaler's Shot. Given this set of circumstances, the removal is definitely more efficient that the creatures necessitating it. You even get a free scry.
Creatures coming in to attack? Impeccable Timing if they are smaller (average cmc of creatures which are x/3 or less = 2.81), Sandblast if they are bigger (average cmc of creatures which are x/5 or less = 3.17; there are 673 creatures in this category), or Farm in any other instance (average cmc of all creatures in Standard = 3.36). These also deal with blocking creatures, of course.
Your opponent cast Hazoret? Let her attack, chump-block her, Slaughter the Strong, then see if have another copy in hand. Tokens starting to get out of hand? Time for a reduced-cost Hour of Revelation.
Sufficient answers exist. I suspect the problem comes from people still trying to view Standard through the lens of Modern and the two formats are simply different beasts.
Lol, no. Narrow and conditional answers are usually bad because they are narrow and conditional. You can't stack your deck with Skywhaler's Shot AND Impeccable Timing AND Sandblast AND Farm AND Slaughter the Strong AND Hour of Revelation, just to have an answer to any threat you might end up facing. If you do, you end up playing a few silver bullets and a bunch of ineffective/useless blanks.
In general, any removal spell that requires your opponent to attack or block loses a lot of value, and a skilled opponent can play around these cards. Settle the Wreckage suffers from this. Fatal Push is great because against most decks you have targets, it is hard to play around, and it is mana efficient (trades with equal or higher mana cost). Vraska's Contempt and other exile effects at CC 4+ is playable largely due to the existence of the overpowered "un-killable" gods (Hazoret, Scarab), imo.
I never said "stack the deck with all those cards". Someone thought it would be nice if white had non-enchantment removal so I listed some of the options which are available. Whether anyone uses them is an entirely different matter altogether.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
And after all that text all it equates to is adding a +1/+1 counter on your creature. Tolarian Community College talked, in is Dominaria Predictions video, about exactly this. Like how new "complex" mechanics are so wordy for very minimal/under-powered effects and how Dominaria should bring back old mechanics that wee fan favorites (and not super broken like Dredge or Infect).
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
That isn't true though, let's assume WOTC goes completely insane land and decided. "Lets print mana drain in Kaladesh." do you know what would happen? Energy would just use it and it would make energy stronger, this leads into one thing I did forget.
and no Servant of the Conduit/Aether Hub effects that let energy and only energy consistently have an absurd mana base.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
I didn't see his video yet, but I know others have mentioned that the cards during kaladesh to now seemed complicated because of energy and how they were working with the -1/-1 counters. I wouldn't say it is as rough as the time spiral suspend mechanic, but it was still kind of "lets go take this winding serpentine path" instead of just going from A -> B.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Mana Drain is kind of beyond the scope of what I was thinking about. It's more that certain kinds of removal prey upon certain kinds of threats, and counterspells cut more into energy producers than other kinds of removal do. Now, how do we then make a counterspell that works particularly well against energy cards and not the general field? I have no idea. So for that, you're quite right. But a counterspell (not Counterspell necessarily) would level the playing field more than Doom BLade.
Yes Mana Drain was far beyond the scope, but I was pointing out that one of the most powerful counter spells to ever exist wouldn't have altered one bit in regards to energy. Energy had the major problem of being able to play it's own threats..while being able to also play the answers to it's threats for almost no loss because it was the perfect storm of Good mana fixing, Instant Speed Shenanigans and a mechanic that had no silver bullet that was fast enough to slide under the already existing counter spells in the format.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Control and sweepers are so bad right now I'm not sure how you can pick on 'em. They even printed a special counter for aggro decks to counter settle and Spell Pierce anyone? Right now it's gg you're dead with 1 countered sweeper.
It's not that I don't agree. I'm just considering whether conterspells could be a solution; I usually don't support powerful counterspells in Standard, mind you, which is why I tried to reconsider it; to better my understanding of the game and approach it properly.
TBH I'm wondering what would've happened if Solemnity cost 2 or even 1 mana isntead of 3.
Solemnity is like graveyard hate, necessary in a meta with a graveyard strategy, and the thing with energy decks is that they function even without energy due to the cards being modular enough without the mechanic just at least be playable, and they could always side in Naturalize. Longtusk Cub would be turned into a subpar beater, but would still be a beater regardless, and the player of Solemnity would still lose 1 card and possibly a whole turn 1's or 2's worth of tempo to "halve" the energy cards' efficiency. And if drawn later, it would blank completely, as it does a lot of the time right now.
Honestly, every time I try building something in standard right now it feels like the design team wants to both simultaneously promote and hate on mid-range decks. They want creatures to stay on the field so the game feels good, but then don't want them being too good so they strap odd limitations that limit deck building, then print answers for the creatures later even though many don't get played because of the deck building limitations. Yes, this makes perfect sense.
Yes, a 1/1 at 4 mana and a 2/2 at 5 mana that both can run away with the game, so lets make them killable with Magma Spray? What the heck are they thinking?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This article, other than the team stuff, seems to hit a lot of nails on the head.
What do I want Standard to be? doesn't have to be a complicated question.
I'd like standard to go back past 2 years ago when they designed balanced (for the most part) cards and let people make decks with them.
No force feeding.
No pushing creatures.
Just balanced cards with all Strats being viable. Control, ramp, aggro, and midrange should all get some love.
Oh yea and screw vehicles. Broken pushed crap. I predict not being the only one very sick of Heart of Kiran in the next few months. 2 for a 4/4 and no sickness tapping... pshhh.
Hazoret should have gotten the ban instead of the Dino for sure.
They've done this before years ago when Karn Liberated was printed into standard. Caw Blade Era was the second worst era that most people playing today never lived through, but it had a lot of similarities to the standard we just broke out of. However, being the guy looking into the past from the future, I would have loved to have been in the position I'm in now back then simply because they had so many power house cards in that standard. Original zendikar fetchlands, the original man-land cycle, JTMS, Karn, SFM, etc. Anyone who was alive and playing at that time had access to some of the best cards to have seen print in ages. The only ones that come close now are Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, possibly Chandra, Torch of Defiance, and maybe Grim Flayer. Looking back at that era, the cards feel a lot more strait forward than they do now in the current set, and phyrexian mana was no where near the mind twist that was the hybrid mana or the first flip cards. Flippy werewolves made me want to pound my head into a wall due to all the sleeving issues. Even using proxies you'd still have your flip cards in a pile and people could see what you were playing, so it always ended up with flip cards being sleeved with the deck itself and just pulling them out and putting them back in again.
Modern really is defined by the earlier sets before RTR, and while that era had it's mistakes, it was much less of a tinker toy landscape that the current game has turned into.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'd much rather be back during Zen-SoM Standard than now. At least when cards were banned they were because they were truly powerful or were incredibly strong strategies because of a group of strong cards. Nowadays the bans are strictly because of the environment they are in, rather than the card on its own. All of the recent ones have been because of the lack of answers and pushing mechanics/cards for the strict purpose of making sure they see play, and if there's no way to answer specific effects or cards even if it is average at best the card is bound to seem too strong in a sea of below average.
Back during Zen/SoM Cawblade didn't start to become oppressive until Sword of Feast and Famine and didn't truly become that way until Batterskull released. Even then there were answers to everything and before Batterskull released just about every archtype was supported enough. I'd much rather be back then than now. Strong cards were just about everywhere and only when a truly strong deck took over was there an issue.
When the best of the best can't beat something there is an issue, but when there are issues when everything is pretty average there are far worse problems in play.
Gotta day that I agree with everything the Imp said.
To add, we “know” that the reason Hazoret didn’t get snuffed has nothing to do with actual gameplay. No, if the decision was based off healthy gameplay Hazoret is the clear choice. But, Hazoret is a face card of the story. She’s the only god to survive in the story so they’re not going to ban her. They want the story elements and moments to be exhibited in the matches you play.
I’ve said it before and I will continue to say it until their philosophy changes. Wizards needs to quit worrying about the Story when it comes to card design. Story and gameplay need to be separated to improve the health of this game. When they try to combine the two you end up with a less impactful story and unbalanced, if not boring, cards.
Allow the art and perhaps the name of the card create the tie to the story. The stuff in the text box should be independent of the story.
Agree x10
Maro loves him some story screwing up balanced play. Has... to... stop.
Settle the Wreckage those who love to see red will say. The worst almost sweeper they could have designed that is enormously easy to play around.
2BB is not that easy to squish into a deck, it's inefficient as hell, and now it's practically a must play.
We are not distracted by Chupacabras!! They don't kill Hazoret! Shocked they didn't just reprint Rancor. Maybe the next set.
I don't mean they're too powerful in the current meta, I mean without powerful enough shells to play the appropriate answers it seems just risky to print so many white sweepers. It's a critical mass kinda thing. It's not good right now, but what's the tipping point?
At what point did lateen finally get enough to start controlling the draw step into a soft lock? At what point did storm hit the right amount of fixing, reduction, and cantrip to go off. These examples are modern, but I gotta think standard is even more susceptible to critical mass type effects.
We're one low cost hexproof indestructible dude away from IW auras being a legit thing. The deck already feels incredibly powerful to me. Dominaria could knock it out of whack for sure.
Still requires a lot of things to go right to lock them down but I certainly did make a Merfolk deck feel like they were completely locked down. Part of the process is getting there, like any control deck getting past T5 and still having cards in hand or momentum is key. Also lots of the pieces are creatures so I don't feel it's unfair at all!
The best standard formats they've ever had were when Ravnica and 9th edition were around. The amount of decks that were playable is at its highest ever.
Various forms of B/W, Heartbeat Combo, Gruul Aggro, Owling Mine, Wildfire, Snow decks, Tron control, Solar Flare control, Dragonstorm Combo, Boros Aggro, Zoo, Mystical Teachings/Teferi control, URW Angelfire.
That format had pretty much all of the things that are allegedly too powerful. 4 mana wraths, 2 mana counterspells, 3 mana land destruction, 1 CMC mana dorks. Yet standard was incredibly diverse and fun. Even Time Spiral + Lorwyn (just the set) was really good, with a ton of really good, viable decks. Things fell apart when they printed Bitterblossom + Mutavault, and standard has struggled since. There have been good formats since then, but overall standard is pretty boring.
With the dwindling numbers they should be bending over backwards to get people into FNM Standard. They're not.
Besides Fatal Push removal for the most part hasn't gotten better like they said they would starting with Hour of Devestation. Vraska's Contempt, Abrade, and Lightning Strike are all well and good, even though it'd be nice if there was white removal that wasn't an enchantment right now, but I'd still say we're still a bit off in the counterspell department. Creatures do still seem to have quite the edge over removal right now.
One can only hope Dominaria is where things will be more equal going forward.
Average cmc of creatures in Standard which have power >= 3: 4.46 (you may take my word for it or you can calculate that number for yourself; there are 351 of them out of about 711 in total, not counting creatures which are listed as */* or 0/0). Skywhaler's Shot. Given this set of circumstances, the removal is definitely more efficient that the creatures necessitating it. You even get a free scry.
Creatures coming in to attack? Impeccable Timing if they are smaller (average cmc of creatures which are x/3 or less = 2.81), Sandblast if they are bigger (average cmc of creatures which are x/5 or less = 3.17; there are 673 creatures in this category), or Farm in any other instance (average cmc of all creatures in Standard = 3.36). These also deal with blocking creatures, of course.
Your opponent cast Hazoret? Let her attack, chump-block her, Slaughter the Strong, then see if have another copy in hand. Tokens starting to get out of hand? Time for a reduced-cost Hour of Revelation.
Sufficient answers exist. I suspect the problem comes from people still trying to view Standard through the lens of Modern and the two formats are simply different beasts.
Counterspells? I see a lot of blue players using Search for Azcanta but *not* using Countervailing Winds. They are already looking to put >= 7 cards in the graveyard, so why not "counter target spell unless your opponent pays 5 (or 6, or 7, or more)"? Actually, I know why they don't--it is because they read an article which told them "don't use that".
So yeah, go right ahead and Sandblast and Impeccable Timing - big whacks of damage later, they'll be in a prime position to finish you off with cheap damage spells, with plenty of mana left over to pay for annoying counterspell taxes.
Countervailing Winds is playable, but there's quite a few decks running Scavenger Grounds. Having a counter basically rendered useless by a graveyard exile effect is not a good feeling.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
That depends upon your point of view, as well as whether or not you have a Soul-Scar Mage on the battlefield.
True. Not every card or strategy is perfect.
Anyway...back on topic...does anyone else find it strangely curious that they banned Rogue Refiner when they knew Tocatli Honor Guard already existed? Especially when the guard also stops the most negative part of Rampaging Ferocidon?
Tocatli Honor Guard existed with Ferocidon and Rogue Refiner and saw absolutely no play. The inherent issue was you could make a deck to beat energy or you could make a deck that beat ramanap red, but you couldn't do both. Honor Guard is a great example of this as it did almost nothing to red, but was reasonable against Temur. Of course Temur had Abrade, Harness Lightning, and Chandra to deal with it if it really cared.
Lol, no. Narrow and conditional answers are usually bad because they are narrow and conditional. You can't stack your deck with Skywhaler's Shot AND Impeccable Timing AND Sandblast AND Farm AND Slaughter the Strong AND Hour of Revelation, just to have an answer to any threat you might end up facing. If you do, you end up playing a few silver bullets and a bunch of ineffective/useless blanks.
In general, any removal spell that requires your opponent to attack or block loses a lot of value, and a skilled opponent can play around these cards. Settle the Wreckage suffers from this. Fatal Push is great because against most decks you have targets, it is hard to play around, and it is mana efficient (trades with equal or higher mana cost). Vraska's Contempt and other exile effects at CC 4+ is playable largely due to the existence of the overpowered "un-killable" gods (Hazoret, Scarab), imo.